Can This Be Real???
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Can This Be Real???
After a 14 year period of lost contact, a former romantic interest and I reconnected on face book. One of the first things that he tells me when getting back in touch is that he over Christmas he had drank himself into a stupor for days and when his family began to worry about him, they had the police break the door down to this flat where he was taken to the hospital. He came really close to drinking himself to death. However, he had seen the error of his ways and was getting help. He was released from the hospital and sent for outpatient counselling services near his home. Things were going along fine.
Ive seen him twice. Both were nice visits but on the second one, he sat in a pub where we were having a meal and told me that he was an alcoholic and he said it with a half a pint of lager on the table. My jaw hit the table with the glass.
He had told me before that his counselor recommended not *quitting* but *moderating* his drinking. This seemed to be met with some success. But as I feared, a nasty relapse happened and he drank himself stupid only this time I was on the receiving end of really terribly hurtful things he said.
I had brought up other issues in the relationship and told him they needed to be worked out and so he took that to mean that he "lost me" and the next thing I know he is drunk and when I won't drop the issue of his drinking and the other issues, he brings up the actions of 14 years ago, lets me have it and then proceeds to tell me I may want to go get an aids test. All of this he said when drunk or drinking. But the most bizarre thing to me was after ripping me to shreds, he tells me that he hopes we can still be together.
Against my better judgement, I continued to speak to him but made it clear there is no relationship beyond a friendship until he works out his own issues. I also told him that I found the moderation recommendation by his counselor to be bizarre and against everything I had read. He informed me flat out that he will never stop drinking completely and that I had to just get over that. I was pretty adamant that I didnt think that was going to work. He has been thus far unable to control it and in the past month there have been two relapses into a drunken haze.
Can what he is telling me be correct? Is there a professional authority on this sort of thing that would recommend moderation to someone so desperately in need of being in recovery and going tee total? How in the heck do you fight against the word of a professional who says that drinking some is okay. Under what circumstances would anyone give this advice to an alcoholic and am I the one who is misinformed and judging the situation incorrectly? He can't moderate his drinking. No, he isnt falling down drunk all the time but the slightest upset in his life and he is on a binge and if I happen to be around for it, I pay dearly.
I promised this man that I would always be his friend but he can not accept the relationship on a friend basis and makes repeated promises about what will change if only I will consent to a further relationship. I can not believe what he is saying and I can not have the sort of upheaval his drinking brings but I do not want to say okay.. im done with you.... get lost. I truly care what happens to him but I will never care enough to sacrafice my own life to make sure he gets well and stays well.
So many of you have dealt with these things.... I feel like Im walking around in some sort of twisted wonderland where Im damned if I do, and damned if I don't. How will I ever be able to make a reasonable argument for no drinking when a professional counselor says its okay to take the moderation approach. He nearly drank himself to death once...... how much more rock bottom can you get.
Thoughts anyone?
Ive seen him twice. Both were nice visits but on the second one, he sat in a pub where we were having a meal and told me that he was an alcoholic and he said it with a half a pint of lager on the table. My jaw hit the table with the glass.
He had told me before that his counselor recommended not *quitting* but *moderating* his drinking. This seemed to be met with some success. But as I feared, a nasty relapse happened and he drank himself stupid only this time I was on the receiving end of really terribly hurtful things he said.
I had brought up other issues in the relationship and told him they needed to be worked out and so he took that to mean that he "lost me" and the next thing I know he is drunk and when I won't drop the issue of his drinking and the other issues, he brings up the actions of 14 years ago, lets me have it and then proceeds to tell me I may want to go get an aids test. All of this he said when drunk or drinking. But the most bizarre thing to me was after ripping me to shreds, he tells me that he hopes we can still be together.
Against my better judgement, I continued to speak to him but made it clear there is no relationship beyond a friendship until he works out his own issues. I also told him that I found the moderation recommendation by his counselor to be bizarre and against everything I had read. He informed me flat out that he will never stop drinking completely and that I had to just get over that. I was pretty adamant that I didnt think that was going to work. He has been thus far unable to control it and in the past month there have been two relapses into a drunken haze.
Can what he is telling me be correct? Is there a professional authority on this sort of thing that would recommend moderation to someone so desperately in need of being in recovery and going tee total? How in the heck do you fight against the word of a professional who says that drinking some is okay. Under what circumstances would anyone give this advice to an alcoholic and am I the one who is misinformed and judging the situation incorrectly? He can't moderate his drinking. No, he isnt falling down drunk all the time but the slightest upset in his life and he is on a binge and if I happen to be around for it, I pay dearly.
I promised this man that I would always be his friend but he can not accept the relationship on a friend basis and makes repeated promises about what will change if only I will consent to a further relationship. I can not believe what he is saying and I can not have the sort of upheaval his drinking brings but I do not want to say okay.. im done with you.... get lost. I truly care what happens to him but I will never care enough to sacrafice my own life to make sure he gets well and stays well.
So many of you have dealt with these things.... I feel like Im walking around in some sort of twisted wonderland where Im damned if I do, and damned if I don't. How will I ever be able to make a reasonable argument for no drinking when a professional counselor says its okay to take the moderation approach. He nearly drank himself to death once...... how much more rock bottom can you get.
Thoughts anyone?
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Welcome to SR!
Did the counselor tell you, personally, that moderation was acceptable?
When dealing with alcoholics/addicts, I have found it best to look at their actions and not take their words at face value.
Your friend was hospitalized 3 1/2 months ago due to excessive alcohol consumption. In 3 1/2 months, he continues to drink to excess (drunk, beligerent behavior).
Does this look like successful moderation to you?
There is more to recovery from addiction than cutting back or abstaining. Recovery involves learning new coping skills and practicing healthy responses to life on lifes terms.
What steps towards recovery is your friend taking other than moderation?
Here is a link to some steps that have helped me and others when dealing with alcoholism
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html
Did the counselor tell you, personally, that moderation was acceptable?
When dealing with alcoholics/addicts, I have found it best to look at their actions and not take their words at face value.
Your friend was hospitalized 3 1/2 months ago due to excessive alcohol consumption. In 3 1/2 months, he continues to drink to excess (drunk, beligerent behavior).
Does this look like successful moderation to you?
There is more to recovery from addiction than cutting back or abstaining. Recovery involves learning new coping skills and practicing healthy responses to life on lifes terms.
What steps towards recovery is your friend taking other than moderation?
Here is a link to some steps that have helped me and others when dealing with alcoholism
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
There are no other steps but moderation. No alternate coping skills aside from the drinking to deal with emotional issues and boredom. And he firmly believes that relationship issues are a valid excuse for picking up a bottle.
I have heard promise after promise that if I will just commit to the sort of relationship he wants, he would have every reason to stop drinking and he will never subject me to any more of the tirades. I am not blind enough to believe that.
So are you telling me that moderation is recommended in some cases? I have to profess my utter ignorance on all of this, I desperately need an education. Thank you for the link, it made a very good read in my situation.
I have heard promise after promise that if I will just commit to the sort of relationship he wants, he would have every reason to stop drinking and he will never subject me to any more of the tirades. I am not blind enough to believe that.
So are you telling me that moderation is recommended in some cases? I have to profess my utter ignorance on all of this, I desperately need an education. Thank you for the link, it made a very good read in my situation.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
There are therapists who believe moderation can be "taught".
I suppose there are a few people with very early signs of a drinking problem who MIGHT be able to do that, but I think they are pretty rare.
And I find it very odd, indeed, that your friend identifies himself as an "alcoholic" who intends to moderate. Even the fans of moderation therapy recognize that true alcoholics cannot successfully moderate their drinking.
Your friend sounds rather delusional, to say the least. And who knows what his therapist is really telling him? Most people who want to continue drinking hear what they choose to hear.
I suppose there are a few people with very early signs of a drinking problem who MIGHT be able to do that, but I think they are pretty rare.
And I find it very odd, indeed, that your friend identifies himself as an "alcoholic" who intends to moderate. Even the fans of moderation therapy recognize that true alcoholics cannot successfully moderate their drinking.
Your friend sounds rather delusional, to say the least. And who knows what his therapist is really telling him? Most people who want to continue drinking hear what they choose to hear.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Your thinking is a lot more inline with mine. He is delusional and I have given much thought to if I am being told the whole story. I didnt hear the counselor say anything. I did see his alchohol journal where he is supposed to write down when he drinks, who he drinks with and how much. I can totally see it going something like him telling the counselor that he will never stop drinking and them trying to find a way to work with him on the basis of that assertion. Would that be more plausible? I just cant imagine that if he was totally honest with those people that they would recommend moderation.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 85
Hi Cymru. I'm just shy of 2 months sober. My marriage ended because of my drinking. My wife tried everything to get me to moderate my drinking, and I promised I would. When that failed (and it will fail with your friend) she begged me to quit, and I promised many times that I would. None of that worked, and I suspect it will not work with your friend. In fact, I'll bet that if you give him the relationship he wants he will actually drink more, not less. Only after I came within a millimetre of losing everything that matters most to me (my kids) did I get it through my thick skull that nothing would work until I quit drinking completely and permanently. After I became sober my thinking quickly became clear and rational and I realized how badly I had ****** up my marriage, my career and everything else. My wife and I are now talking and reconciliation is a real possibility, but it never would have happened if I had not quit drinking.
You're asking for advice. My advice would be to tell him firmly that no close relationship is possible while he's drinking and that only if he becomes sober you might reconsider.
You're asking for advice. My advice would be to tell him firmly that no close relationship is possible while he's drinking and that only if he becomes sober you might reconsider.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miles from Nowhere
Posts: 396
"He had told me before that his counselor recommended not *quitting* but *moderating* his drinking."
Either he is lying, or his counselor is an idiot, IMHO.
"I promised this man that I would always be his friend but he can not accept the relationship on a friend basis and makes repeated promises about what will change if only I will consent to a further relationship."
"I have heard promise after promise that if I will just commit to the sort of relationship he wants, he would have every reason to stop drinking and he will never subject me to any more of the tirades."
Sounds like manipulation to me.
My advice would be to run, not walk, from this dude.
Either he is lying, or his counselor is an idiot, IMHO.
"I promised this man that I would always be his friend but he can not accept the relationship on a friend basis and makes repeated promises about what will change if only I will consent to a further relationship."
"I have heard promise after promise that if I will just commit to the sort of relationship he wants, he would have every reason to stop drinking and he will never subject me to any more of the tirades."
Sounds like manipulation to me.
My advice would be to run, not walk, from this dude.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Hi Wales, and Welcome to SR!!!
You have found a great place for support with people who can share their Experience, Strength, and Hope with you.
Please read around the forum, ask as many questions as you would like. You have received a lot of great answers already! Perhaps consider that a relationship based on the "potential" of a partner is going to be filled with resentment and heartache.
Take good care of yourself!
HG
You have found a great place for support with people who can share their Experience, Strength, and Hope with you.
Please read around the forum, ask as many questions as you would like. You have received a lot of great answers already! Perhaps consider that a relationship based on the "potential" of a partner is going to be filled with resentment and heartache.
Take good care of yourself!
HG
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
Hi,
I don't know if you are in wales... I am
hello! and yes, I have been told by a counsellor that specialises in addiction here that moderation can be more successful for younger people that have problems with alcohol (she didn't use the word alcoholic) than older people - but it was said in the context of it rarely works at all for those who are out of their 20's and has a very limited success rate for those in their teens and twenties.
one of the reasons for this is probably that people in the lower age range drink more so a heap of people who aren't alcoholics will abuse alcohol (think college students), and go on to successfully moderate. Sort of muddy's the stats.
but:
a) you can't be sure what they said to him - is he still going? mine lied for nearly a year that he was still going
b) he self identifies as an alcoholic whilst drinking alcohol - that right there is a BIG RED WAVING FLAG
c) he was recently hospitalised for drinking himself to death and that hasn't stopped him drinking. if this was you, if, say, eating peanuts nearly killed you, would you risk having one or 2 packets of peanuts occassionally, or would you just not risk it for a good long while? - if your family had broken down your door and had you hospitalised because of peanuts - to stop them worrying to death wouldn't you steer clear of peanuts for a good while....
d) you've seen him twice since this happened and on the second visit he was abusive to you. He couldn't even be on best behaviour for 2 whole visits, and he is pressuring you to have a relationship with him. HUGE MASSIVE RED FLAG WAVING - he is using guilt to make you be in a relationship with him and hanging all the responsibility for his drinking AND abusiveness on you.
cut. your. losses.
you are not dammed if you do/dammed if you don't, but any relationship with this individual IS dammed. he needs professional help, to a) deal with his drinking and b) deal with his abusiveness and c) deal with his personal problems. you can't do any of these things and will probably act as an excuse for him not to seek the help he really needs if he doesn't get a sharp slap of reality - i.e. that treating people like sh** is not the way to win friends, or keep a girlfriend.
You don't owe him anything, your promise to be his friend is meaningless, because he can't really have friends in the normal sense of the word until he has successfully tackled these things- friends are friendly and care about the other person, whatever he says, he is all about him, not you.
think carefully about why you would want to stay in contact with him, he cannot be helped by you, and you may well waste a significant portion of your life finding that out and become worn out and trapped in the process. read around here and decide if this is what you want, and also could I recommend the book "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft - uncomfortable read and perhaps you won't recognise your situation on every ;age but I'm willing to bet you'll recognise a fairish amount, and it has important insights in there that I think you would benefit from.
(())
I don't know if you are in wales... I am
hello! and yes, I have been told by a counsellor that specialises in addiction here that moderation can be more successful for younger people that have problems with alcohol (she didn't use the word alcoholic) than older people - but it was said in the context of it rarely works at all for those who are out of their 20's and has a very limited success rate for those in their teens and twenties. one of the reasons for this is probably that people in the lower age range drink more so a heap of people who aren't alcoholics will abuse alcohol (think college students), and go on to successfully moderate. Sort of muddy's the stats.
but:
a) you can't be sure what they said to him - is he still going? mine lied for nearly a year that he was still going
b) he self identifies as an alcoholic whilst drinking alcohol - that right there is a BIG RED WAVING FLAG
c) he was recently hospitalised for drinking himself to death and that hasn't stopped him drinking. if this was you, if, say, eating peanuts nearly killed you, would you risk having one or 2 packets of peanuts occassionally, or would you just not risk it for a good long while? - if your family had broken down your door and had you hospitalised because of peanuts - to stop them worrying to death wouldn't you steer clear of peanuts for a good while....
d) you've seen him twice since this happened and on the second visit he was abusive to you. He couldn't even be on best behaviour for 2 whole visits, and he is pressuring you to have a relationship with him. HUGE MASSIVE RED FLAG WAVING - he is using guilt to make you be in a relationship with him and hanging all the responsibility for his drinking AND abusiveness on you.
cut. your. losses.
you are not dammed if you do/dammed if you don't, but any relationship with this individual IS dammed. he needs professional help, to a) deal with his drinking and b) deal with his abusiveness and c) deal with his personal problems. you can't do any of these things and will probably act as an excuse for him not to seek the help he really needs if he doesn't get a sharp slap of reality - i.e. that treating people like sh** is not the way to win friends, or keep a girlfriend.
You don't owe him anything, your promise to be his friend is meaningless, because he can't really have friends in the normal sense of the word until he has successfully tackled these things- friends are friendly and care about the other person, whatever he says, he is all about him, not you.
think carefully about why you would want to stay in contact with him, he cannot be helped by you, and you may well waste a significant portion of your life finding that out and become worn out and trapped in the process. read around here and decide if this is what you want, and also could I recommend the book "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft - uncomfortable read and perhaps you won't recognise your situation on every ;age but I'm willing to bet you'll recognise a fairish amount, and it has important insights in there that I think you would benefit from.
(())
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
ps:
there's not such thing as moderation with an alcoholic.
I remember a few years ago, the woman who was the head of some kind of 'moderate drinkers' association drove drunk and killed someone.
I don't know why the organization didn't fall apart right then.
Well.
Yes, I do.
Because alcoholics only have the one recourse
in choosing life.
I know.
I am one.
there's not such thing as moderation with an alcoholic.
I remember a few years ago, the woman who was the head of some kind of 'moderate drinkers' association drove drunk and killed someone.
I don't know why the organization didn't fall apart right then.
Well.
Yes, I do.
Because alcoholics only have the one recourse
in choosing life.
I know.
I am one.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
@JenT1968
I lived in Wales for over 10 years but now live in London. Im working my way back up to Wales, it is a wonderful place to live. Im not really keen on London.
I found your post very helpful because while these are things I already knew in my head, to have them put up there like that forces the issue a bit further inside my cranium. I have a pretty good life and his issues/addiction are not things I am equipped to handle and I care the world about him but I know for sure I would be setting myself up for a long drawn out painful goodbye. Until he helps himself, I would only be chasing the dragon of hope of his recovery.
I probably should have mentioned that he has spoken of suicide and my thoughts have been ... what if I just cut him off and he does something to hurt himself. What I am beginning to see is that I am being held to ransom for HIS addiction and emotional issues. Earlier today I sent him a message that simply read that I was not willing to move forward in any capacity and that we needed to say goodbye and that should he make different choices in the future and discover a life without alcohol that he was welcome to get back in touch. I have deleted him from social networking sites and the ability to contact me via chat on android. His only option would be text message or a phone call. Thankfully just showing up is not an option for him as A. I am a considerable distance away and B. I relocated during all this and have yet to provide an address and now will not.
Though I know these are the right choices and I have done what any reasonable person would do under the circumstances, there is still a tinge of guilt and a lot of sadness because when he isnt swallowing away the person I know and care about, he is a wonderful man. However, I realise he is a wonderful man with a huge problem that I can't do anything for. I really want things to be different but know that he has to want them for himself. Maybe its infantile and selfish but it hurts that killing himself with drink is a more attractive option than me. Its then that I have to remember that its an addiction..... and try ... not to be so sad. Ill be okay. He however, I truly believe, will not
I lived in Wales for over 10 years but now live in London. Im working my way back up to Wales, it is a wonderful place to live. Im not really keen on London.
I found your post very helpful because while these are things I already knew in my head, to have them put up there like that forces the issue a bit further inside my cranium. I have a pretty good life and his issues/addiction are not things I am equipped to handle and I care the world about him but I know for sure I would be setting myself up for a long drawn out painful goodbye. Until he helps himself, I would only be chasing the dragon of hope of his recovery.
I probably should have mentioned that he has spoken of suicide and my thoughts have been ... what if I just cut him off and he does something to hurt himself. What I am beginning to see is that I am being held to ransom for HIS addiction and emotional issues. Earlier today I sent him a message that simply read that I was not willing to move forward in any capacity and that we needed to say goodbye and that should he make different choices in the future and discover a life without alcohol that he was welcome to get back in touch. I have deleted him from social networking sites and the ability to contact me via chat on android. His only option would be text message or a phone call. Thankfully just showing up is not an option for him as A. I am a considerable distance away and B. I relocated during all this and have yet to provide an address and now will not.
Though I know these are the right choices and I have done what any reasonable person would do under the circumstances, there is still a tinge of guilt and a lot of sadness because when he isnt swallowing away the person I know and care about, he is a wonderful man. However, I realise he is a wonderful man with a huge problem that I can't do anything for. I really want things to be different but know that he has to want them for himself. Maybe its infantile and selfish but it hurts that killing himself with drink is a more attractive option than me. Its then that I have to remember that its an addiction..... and try ... not to be so sad. Ill be okay. He however, I truly believe, will not
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Yep, block and unfriend.
This is another mess.
Dont walk into a different situation with a new liar.
I hope this does not sound harsh...
But, I tried dating ONE guy once while AH and I were not speaking. It was premature, to say the least on myn part, being still so sick with my own issues.
He seemed so together, but drank, had a AW that was bipolar and they ahd 2 kids. We had so much in common...
I wanted to like him, and he said all the right things at first.
I never slept with him, becuase we were going slow.
It did not take long, before I found out a lot of what he said were lies, and the thing we had in common was that he could have been my AHs twin.
I was basically playing the role of all those other women on the other end of my AHs lies.
it made me sick, and I scampered back to lonerville.
This guy did not take long to get loaded and "let you have it"
This is so much more than a red flag.
Just let him go. For good. You deserve better treatment.
So, you promised him oyu would always be his friend?
I imagine, as an active alcoholic, he would be pressed to keep any promises to you.
NOt to mention his willingness to dump on you so soon after reconnecting, DRUNK or not.
This is another mess.
Dont walk into a different situation with a new liar.
I hope this does not sound harsh...
But, I tried dating ONE guy once while AH and I were not speaking. It was premature, to say the least on myn part, being still so sick with my own issues.
He seemed so together, but drank, had a AW that was bipolar and they ahd 2 kids. We had so much in common...
I wanted to like him, and he said all the right things at first.
I never slept with him, becuase we were going slow.
It did not take long, before I found out a lot of what he said were lies, and the thing we had in common was that he could have been my AHs twin.
I was basically playing the role of all those other women on the other end of my AHs lies.
it made me sick, and I scampered back to lonerville.
This guy did not take long to get loaded and "let you have it"
This is so much more than a red flag.
Just let him go. For good. You deserve better treatment.
So, you promised him oyu would always be his friend?
I imagine, as an active alcoholic, he would be pressed to keep any promises to you.
NOt to mention his willingness to dump on you so soon after reconnecting, DRUNK or not.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
Originally Posted by barb dwyer 
ps:
there's not such thing as moderation with an alcoholic.
I remember a few years ago, the woman who was the head of some kind of 'moderate drinkers' association drove drunk and killed someone.
I don't know why the organization didn't fall apart right then.
Well.
Yes, I do.
Because alcoholics only have the one recourse
in choosing life.
I know.
I am one.
there's not such thing as moderation with an alcoholic.
I remember a few years ago, the woman who was the head of some kind of 'moderate drinkers' association drove drunk and killed someone.
I don't know why the organization didn't fall apart right then.
Well.
Yes, I do.
Because alcoholics only have the one recourse
in choosing life.
I know.
I am one.
You're absolutely right in your first line; there is no such thing as moderation for an alcoholic.....
The person you're thinking of is Audrey Kishline, who started Moderation Management.....a secular non-profit organization providing peer-run non-coercive support groups for anyone who would like to reduce their alcohol consumption. MM was founded in 1994 to create an alternative to Alcoholics Anonymous and similar addiction recovery groups for non-dependent problem drinkers who do not necessarily want to stop drinking, but moderate their amount of alcohol consumed to reduce its detrimental consequences.
Please note that MM was started for NON-alcoholics who wanted to moderate their consumption of alcohol. It states, and has always stated, that they are for NON-alcoholics and NOT for alcoholics.
.....and a wee bit more research would show you that Ms Kishline had her accident after she realised that she was an alcoholic, had stopped moderation and had begun total abstinance, and was attending AA.....with your logic from your post do you think AA should fall apart because she relapsed and had an accident while a member of AA.....?
......just some things to think about.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
I absolutely do NOT think that.
AA is not non alcoholics trying to convince themselves
they are alcoholics.
the fact is what the fact is.
there is no moderation.
the woman proved that in a way
that is repeated thousands of times a week in the US.
A devastating, permanent way.
People who try and moderate -
fail.
Period.
People who don't have any kind of drinking problem
don't need to think about moderation
because there's nothing to moderate.
AA is not non alcoholics trying to convince themselves
they are alcoholics.
the fact is what the fact is.
there is no moderation.
the woman proved that in a way
that is repeated thousands of times a week in the US.
A devastating, permanent way.
People who try and moderate -
fail.
Period.
People who don't have any kind of drinking problem
don't need to think about moderation
because there's nothing to moderate.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
As someone who spent a whole lotta time in MM (not to get into a thread-hijack--just a quick aside), the theory is that you attempt to learn to moderate, be honest with your progress (or lack thereof), and if you can't do it, QUIT.
In practice, unfortunately, most of the people IN MM (the main group--there is a subgroup who have chosen long term/permanent abstinence with whom I still keep in touch) are looking for a way to keep drinking, no matter how destructive it becomes. I was one of them, and I continued the "experiment" for four and a half years before I finally saw the proverbial light.
I don't think Audrey's actions prove a darn thing about moderation--she was in AA when she drove drunk and killed two people. It only proves that no matter what "program" you are in, alcoholism is cunning, baffling, and powerful, and can take down even people who have "decided" they no longer want to drink.
That said, in my many years of association with MM, I have encountered literally a handful of people (maybe five or six out of the hundreds I ran across in that time) who were able to successfully change their drinking habits long term. As in five or six. There may be a lot more who got better and were never heard from again, but I doubt there are many.
In practice, unfortunately, most of the people IN MM (the main group--there is a subgroup who have chosen long term/permanent abstinence with whom I still keep in touch) are looking for a way to keep drinking, no matter how destructive it becomes. I was one of them, and I continued the "experiment" for four and a half years before I finally saw the proverbial light.
I don't think Audrey's actions prove a darn thing about moderation--she was in AA when she drove drunk and killed two people. It only proves that no matter what "program" you are in, alcoholism is cunning, baffling, and powerful, and can take down even people who have "decided" they no longer want to drink.
That said, in my many years of association with MM, I have encountered literally a handful of people (maybe five or six out of the hundreds I ran across in that time) who were able to successfully change their drinking habits long term. As in five or six. There may be a lot more who got better and were never heard from again, but I doubt there are many.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
If you start with this man your life will go to hell. Please seek help to understand why in the world you would even be considering this. Something is very, very broken, and I'm not talking about him.
Alanon , counseling, or both is in order.
Take care of yourself.
Cyranoak
Alanon , counseling, or both is in order.
Take care of yourself.
Cyranoak
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 6
Perhaps you should have read the subsequent messages left by myself before deeming me broken and in need of counseling and Alanon.
Ultimately the choices I ended up making was the one I was always going to make however it is perfectly natural to care about someone despite the impossibility of anything. I have NEVER dealt with these sorts of issues. This is my first experience with anyone with alcohol dependency and if you have never dealt with this monster, its difficult to get your head around.
And as I am sure many people say, and I will repeat, when not drinking, there is a wonderful person in all of this who is so easy to care about. However I realize that I can not sort him out and his reluctance to sort himself out leaves all doors closed. I was never considering a romantic relationship with him whilst under these circumstances. I came here in an attempt to get some opinions on what I had been told and for some insight from those that had been there.
I am not broken. I am quite sad that someone I care about is on a downward spiral into hell and there is nothing I can do about it. I have a good life and this carry on ..... and that he will not be a part of it.. is ultimately his loss.
Ultimately the choices I ended up making was the one I was always going to make however it is perfectly natural to care about someone despite the impossibility of anything. I have NEVER dealt with these sorts of issues. This is my first experience with anyone with alcohol dependency and if you have never dealt with this monster, its difficult to get your head around.
And as I am sure many people say, and I will repeat, when not drinking, there is a wonderful person in all of this who is so easy to care about. However I realize that I can not sort him out and his reluctance to sort himself out leaves all doors closed. I was never considering a romantic relationship with him whilst under these circumstances. I came here in an attempt to get some opinions on what I had been told and for some insight from those that had been there.
I am not broken. I am quite sad that someone I care about is on a downward spiral into hell and there is nothing I can do about it. I have a good life and this carry on ..... and that he will not be a part of it.. is ultimately his loss.
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