would like advice on how to phrase this
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would like advice on how to phrase this
Monday is our "Date Night". Something we both look forward to, and historically has been kind of sacred -- we have never questioned whether or not we're going out if it's Monday.
Four weeks ago I was on a "break/christine time" and so there was no date.
One week later, my mother had surgery, so I told him I needed to go to the hospital. He joined me there with a smile on his face, but lamented, "aahh, I'm missing date night!" (in a good humor sort of way)
Two weeks ago we went to a movie and dinner, and had a very nice dinner/talk - as we generally do.
Last week I was in dress rehearsal for a play I just finished. So....no date.
[so: date every monday for a few months, then one on, one off, one on, two off]
Yesterday:
I got a call (from the BF) containing a few items. He vented quite a lot about his daughter, whom he is annoyed or furious with almost all the time. She suddenly didn't have a way to get to their joint counseling session, and he was going to just go without her, then proceed to go golfing on this beautiful spring day. Suddenly he stopped and said, "oh...wait a minute....are we back on for date night?" I said, "well, I thought so, but I actually have a bit of a conflict due to a friend's husband's passing a few days ago. I wasn't sure which way to go." So he asked if it'd be ok for us to choose a different night to go out. I said that would be fine.
THIS MORNING, I'm telling a work friend that I didn't go out last night, and suddenly I feel hurt.
I say, "should I feel hurt over this?"
She says, "Not gonna tell you how to feel, but....he thought of wanting to golf before he thought of your movie night, huh?"
So now my undies are in a bunch over this. Not in an angry way, but in a hurt-feelings-like-I'm-not-important way
Question is: I think I should say something to him this evening, but I don't wanna sound petty and/or whiney. I don't want to come across like a hurt little girl, but I place a high value on being communcative and not burying things that bother us.
Any ideas on how to proceed....or just set me straight....
(sorry so long!!
Four weeks ago I was on a "break/christine time" and so there was no date.
One week later, my mother had surgery, so I told him I needed to go to the hospital. He joined me there with a smile on his face, but lamented, "aahh, I'm missing date night!" (in a good humor sort of way)
Two weeks ago we went to a movie and dinner, and had a very nice dinner/talk - as we generally do.
Last week I was in dress rehearsal for a play I just finished. So....no date.
[so: date every monday for a few months, then one on, one off, one on, two off]
Yesterday:
I got a call (from the BF) containing a few items. He vented quite a lot about his daughter, whom he is annoyed or furious with almost all the time. She suddenly didn't have a way to get to their joint counseling session, and he was going to just go without her, then proceed to go golfing on this beautiful spring day. Suddenly he stopped and said, "oh...wait a minute....are we back on for date night?" I said, "well, I thought so, but I actually have a bit of a conflict due to a friend's husband's passing a few days ago. I wasn't sure which way to go." So he asked if it'd be ok for us to choose a different night to go out. I said that would be fine.
THIS MORNING, I'm telling a work friend that I didn't go out last night, and suddenly I feel hurt.
I say, "should I feel hurt over this?"
She says, "Not gonna tell you how to feel, but....he thought of wanting to golf before he thought of your movie night, huh?"
So now my undies are in a bunch over this. Not in an angry way, but in a hurt-feelings-like-I'm-not-important way
Question is: I think I should say something to him this evening, but I don't wanna sound petty and/or whiney. I don't want to come across like a hurt little girl, but I place a high value on being communcative and not burying things that bother us.
Any ideas on how to proceed....or just set me straight....
(sorry so long!!
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I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. You have cancelled date night yourself, once because you were taking a break, having "me" time. Maybe your "date nights" should be fluid. Not always on one cetain night, since you both obviously have other things you like or need to do.
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It sounds like he's been flexible (and you've had legit reasons to need to cancel date night) and that last night he remembered that it was supposed to be date night, asked you how you felt and you said it was okay.
Am I right so far?
And today you feel sad about missing date night.
I say the following as someone who has done precisely what you have a million times: said something was okay when it wasn't and then felt hurt in a "I'm not important" way that you describe.
YOU told him it was okay. He asked and you went so far as to say let's come up with another night. Were you hoping that he'd say "no no, I WANT to do this with you" and convince you to have date night? Was it a subconscious test?
I know with my AH that for a long time I didn't tell him directly what I wanted bc if I did there was a good chance I'd get hurt so I preferred instead to act like everything was fine and then be hurt and sad and feel unimportant as you describe feeling. The issue (with me all those times) was ME. If I don't tell someone what I want, need, don't want and don't do it at the time when the issue is being addressed, then I can be good and pissed all I want after the fact but the only person I should be upset with me is me.
I have no doubt that your BF has hurt, disappointed, let you down lots of times. And I imagine that you'd LOVE for him to say "no matter what I want to have date night" (chase you a bit right?) but if you don't tell him what you want and worse still, if you tell him it's "fine" to miss date night and then tell him you feel you're not important to him that's going to confuse him.
If you want to talk to him how about saying something like "I know I said I was fine about missing date night but I find myself feeling sad that we didn't get that time together today..." and then propose a new date/time to make up for it. I would avoid making it his issue that you're sad. It sounds like what's wrong is that you missed the time and connection during that time with him. Tell him that and make it something positive if you can.
Again, I have been in this spot too many times and for too long I made my AH responsible for my feelings. So, avoid doing that if you can.
As an aside, I wonder this: did you feel you HAD to say it was fine? was he actually asking you if it was okay or was it a rhetorical question and didn't matter whether it was okay or not for you? I've fallen into that trap with my AH many times too. He asks if I am ok with him bailing on something, I say no, and he flips out on me and is verbally abusive. So, I learned to just say it was fine and deal with my hurt feelings on my own. Do you think this is something you were worried about happening if you'd told him you weren't okay with skipping date night?
Am I right so far?
And today you feel sad about missing date night.
I say the following as someone who has done precisely what you have a million times: said something was okay when it wasn't and then felt hurt in a "I'm not important" way that you describe.
YOU told him it was okay. He asked and you went so far as to say let's come up with another night. Were you hoping that he'd say "no no, I WANT to do this with you" and convince you to have date night? Was it a subconscious test?
I know with my AH that for a long time I didn't tell him directly what I wanted bc if I did there was a good chance I'd get hurt so I preferred instead to act like everything was fine and then be hurt and sad and feel unimportant as you describe feeling. The issue (with me all those times) was ME. If I don't tell someone what I want, need, don't want and don't do it at the time when the issue is being addressed, then I can be good and pissed all I want after the fact but the only person I should be upset with me is me.
I have no doubt that your BF has hurt, disappointed, let you down lots of times. And I imagine that you'd LOVE for him to say "no matter what I want to have date night" (chase you a bit right?) but if you don't tell him what you want and worse still, if you tell him it's "fine" to miss date night and then tell him you feel you're not important to him that's going to confuse him.
If you want to talk to him how about saying something like "I know I said I was fine about missing date night but I find myself feeling sad that we didn't get that time together today..." and then propose a new date/time to make up for it. I would avoid making it his issue that you're sad. It sounds like what's wrong is that you missed the time and connection during that time with him. Tell him that and make it something positive if you can.
Again, I have been in this spot too many times and for too long I made my AH responsible for my feelings. So, avoid doing that if you can.
As an aside, I wonder this: did you feel you HAD to say it was fine? was he actually asking you if it was okay or was it a rhetorical question and didn't matter whether it was okay or not for you? I've fallen into that trap with my AH many times too. He asks if I am ok with him bailing on something, I say no, and he flips out on me and is verbally abusive. So, I learned to just say it was fine and deal with my hurt feelings on my own. Do you think this is something you were worried about happening if you'd told him you weren't okay with skipping date night?
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy 
As an aside, I wonder this: did you feel you HAD to say it was fine? was he actually asking you if it was okay or was it a rhetorical question and didn't matter whether it was okay or not for you? I've fallen into that trap with my AH many times too. He asks if I am ok with him bailing on something, I say no, and he flips out on me and is verbally abusive. So, I learned to just say it was fine and deal with my hurt feelings on my own. Do you think this is something you were worried about happening if you'd told him you weren't okay with skipping date night?
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
My RAH will do things like the rhetorical question, to cover his ass.
Like, he will say he is doing something, then say, "do you still want me to pick up son from school" I still could, but..."
If I push, he will get angry, and it becomes obvious that he was doing a fake offer.He had his plans already made.
I do not know if that is what was happening there, but it did sound like you had a conflict.
I would probably simmer down from it, and watch, quietly what happens next time. Make a mental note.
Like, he will say he is doing something, then say, "do you still want me to pick up son from school" I still could, but..."
If I push, he will get angry, and it becomes obvious that he was doing a fake offer.He had his plans already made.
I do not know if that is what was happening there, but it did sound like you had a conflict.
I would probably simmer down from it, and watch, quietly what happens next time. Make a mental note.
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My RAH will do things like the rhetorical question, to cover his ass.
Like, he will say he is doing something, then say, "do you still want me to pick up son from school" I still could, but..."
If I push, he will get angry, and it becomes obvious that he was doing a fake offer.He had his plans already made.
Like, he will say he is doing something, then say, "do you still want me to pick up son from school" I still could, but..."
If I push, he will get angry, and it becomes obvious that he was doing a fake offer.He had his plans already made.
Maybe I'll write a book. "Here's the sh*t they'll tell you and here's how to not believe it". I think that the power they have is that we get isolated and think what they are telling us REALLY is about us. Then we find SR and realize "holy crap" -- others are being told the same stuff as me and sanity starts to come back...
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Posts: 1,175
WTBH,
Also, there is a different hing he would do, and he still does to some degree, which is to say he is going to do something.
"I am going to spend more time with our son. And I am going to teach him to garden..."
Or whatever, then he would not do either, but he would live within the delusion that because he had said it, it was real.
It was actually a regular thingb while he was active.
I always had to point out the delusion, because he would argue, and throw in,
"I am spending more time with son, and teaching him to garden! What more do you want?"
I would have to say, No, AH, you only said that was something you were GOING to do. Its been 5 months. You did not actually do that.
It never seemed to matter to him that the proof would be in the back yard, where there WAS NO GARDEN!!
LOL.
ANd- I know for me, it was hard to keep off of the crazy train with him, sometimes, some really deperate times, because I SOOOO wanted what he was saying to be true.
that bubble is all burst now, Thank God!
Also, there is a different hing he would do, and he still does to some degree, which is to say he is going to do something.
"I am going to spend more time with our son. And I am going to teach him to garden..."
Or whatever, then he would not do either, but he would live within the delusion that because he had said it, it was real.
It was actually a regular thingb while he was active.
I always had to point out the delusion, because he would argue, and throw in,
"I am spending more time with son, and teaching him to garden! What more do you want?"
I would have to say, No, AH, you only said that was something you were GOING to do. Its been 5 months. You did not actually do that.
It never seemed to matter to him that the proof would be in the back yard, where there WAS NO GARDEN!!
LOL.
ANd- I know for me, it was hard to keep off of the crazy train with him, sometimes, some really deperate times, because I SOOOO wanted what he was saying to be true.
that bubble is all burst now, Thank God!
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by Buffalo66
WTBH,
Also, there is a different hing he would do, and he still does to some degree, which is to say he is going to do something.
"I am going to spend more time with our son. And I am going to teach him to garden..."
Or whatever, then he would not do either, but he would live within the delusion that because he had said it, it was real.
It was actually a regular thingb while he was active.
I always had to point out the delusion, because he would argue, and throw in,
"I am spending more time with son, and teaching him to garden! What more do you want?"
I would have to say, No, AH, you only said that was something you were GOING to do. Its been 5 months. You did not actually do that.
It never seemed to matter to him that the proof would be in the back yard, where there WAS NO GARDEN!!
LOL.
ANd- I know for me, it was hard to keep off of the crazy train with him, sometimes, some really deperate times, because I SOOOO wanted what he was saying to be true.
that bubble is all burst now, Thank God!
Also, there is a different hing he would do, and he still does to some degree, which is to say he is going to do something.
"I am going to spend more time with our son. And I am going to teach him to garden..."
Or whatever, then he would not do either, but he would live within the delusion that because he had said it, it was real.
It was actually a regular thingb while he was active.
I always had to point out the delusion, because he would argue, and throw in,
"I am spending more time with son, and teaching him to garden! What more do you want?"
I would have to say, No, AH, you only said that was something you were GOING to do. Its been 5 months. You did not actually do that.
It never seemed to matter to him that the proof would be in the back yard, where there WAS NO GARDEN!!
LOL.
ANd- I know for me, it was hard to keep off of the crazy train with him, sometimes, some really deperate times, because I SOOOO wanted what he was saying to be true.
that bubble is all burst now, Thank God!
Clearly I am the one to blame for his not doing things he a) says he will and b) says he'll do, doesn't do and then lies to himself and others and claims he's done them and when the TRUTH smacks him in the face it is the fault of TRUTH rather than his lazy self that he's confronted with something he doesn't like.
Ugh.
Our "R"AH's must be twins.
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
It sounds like your date night has been rather fluid recently, and he got used to you being busy on date night, and doing his own thing. It's become a habit.
He may have simply forgotten that this particular time you weren't busy.
So there's a lot of different ways to read this.
Maybe you're subconsciously upset because date night hasn't been the regular thing it used to be, lately.
Maybe it's something about the way he said it that is setting off alarm bells.
Maybe it's a bit of codependency kicking in that he didn't argue enough about keeping it on the Monday, and you feel he doesn't care enough about spending time with you, rather than appreciating how much he seems to be okay with respecting your schedule.
Maybe you really did want to have date night that night, but felt bad about telling him not to go golfing, so you didn't.
Etc, etc, etc.
Maybe if you figure out why you're upset, you can figure out whether the problem lies on his end or yours?
He may have simply forgotten that this particular time you weren't busy.
So there's a lot of different ways to read this.
Maybe you're subconsciously upset because date night hasn't been the regular thing it used to be, lately.
Maybe it's something about the way he said it that is setting off alarm bells.
Maybe it's a bit of codependency kicking in that he didn't argue enough about keeping it on the Monday, and you feel he doesn't care enough about spending time with you, rather than appreciating how much he seems to be okay with respecting your schedule.
Maybe you really did want to have date night that night, but felt bad about telling him not to go golfing, so you didn't.
Etc, etc, etc.
Maybe if you figure out why you're upset, you can figure out whether the problem lies on his end or yours?
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Were you hoping that he'd say "no no, I WANT to do this with you" and convince you to have date night? Was it a subconscious test?
uh...I think so. Oh, how embarrassing
Maybe it's something about the way he said it that is setting off alarm bells.
No, no alarm bells. If he did this all the time, yeah, but he is genuinely kind and straightforward when he wants to cancel something. I think the above quote nailed it.
As an aside, I wonder this: did you feel you HAD to say it was fine? was he actually asking you if it was okay or was it a rhetorical question and didn't matter whether it was okay or not for you?
Perhaps a little of this going on. I actually did have a mini-conflict - I could have gone to the funeral today instead of on Monday, but going Monday made more sense. Then....see next quoted sentence....
i wonder if there is an undercurrent of CONTROL going on here? it was perfectly ok when you had other more pressing issues and you called off date night but not so much when the shoe was on the other foot.
Oh golly, Anvil, I was really hoping you'd read this and have something to say. But ouch, man!
I actually considered this dynamic right away, in that I realized that when he was all cool and nice about me cancelling, it felt a certain way, but that when he wants to cancel, it feels hurtful. I have thought about that a lot since it comes up somewhat regularly.
It's like I want this boy to really want me, and want to have me around, but I don't want to be around all the time, so why would I expect him to want me to be?? And I want him to want to depend on me for emotional stuff, but I don't want him to be weak and fragile and clingy. Does that make ANY sense???
Man!! I'm a sicko!
One thing I AM glad about: I wanted to depend on your guys here and you really told me the things I needed to hear.
Thank you everyone for your replies!
uh...I think so. Oh, how embarrassing
Maybe it's something about the way he said it that is setting off alarm bells.
No, no alarm bells. If he did this all the time, yeah, but he is genuinely kind and straightforward when he wants to cancel something. I think the above quote nailed it.
As an aside, I wonder this: did you feel you HAD to say it was fine? was he actually asking you if it was okay or was it a rhetorical question and didn't matter whether it was okay or not for you?
Perhaps a little of this going on. I actually did have a mini-conflict - I could have gone to the funeral today instead of on Monday, but going Monday made more sense. Then....see next quoted sentence....
i wonder if there is an undercurrent of CONTROL going on here? it was perfectly ok when you had other more pressing issues and you called off date night but not so much when the shoe was on the other foot.
Oh golly, Anvil, I was really hoping you'd read this and have something to say. But ouch, man!
I actually considered this dynamic right away, in that I realized that when he was all cool and nice about me cancelling, it felt a certain way, but that when he wants to cancel, it feels hurtful. I have thought about that a lot since it comes up somewhat regularly.
It's like I want this boy to really want me, and want to have me around, but I don't want to be around all the time, so why would I expect him to want me to be?? And I want him to want to depend on me for emotional stuff, but I don't want him to be weak and fragile and clingy. Does that make ANY sense???
Man!! I'm a sicko!
One thing I AM glad about: I wanted to depend on your guys here and you really told me the things I needed to hear.
Thank you everyone for your replies!
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CoffeeDrinker- You are not a sicko at all... You are a normal woman in an abnormal situation. Imagine if we were with partners who didn't play games, who we didn't fear being hurt (emotionally) by etc... Give yourself a break and give yourself credit for being able to see what you were doing and recognize that if you were living in a totally healthy relationship you probably wouldn't be posting about this. Be kind to yourself. Many of us have been in the same situation. Looks like last night was your turn!
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What I hear you saying is that date night hadn't been happening as usual for a while- not just that night- and then you were/are missing it and feeling bad. No blame to assign, nothing bad happened here and it is SO fixable. Maybe tell him that you are missing date night with him and you guys need to really do something about it soon, like tonight or tomorrow or something! ;-)
I loved date nights. They're the best, especially when its become something you both did and looked forward to for so long. Romantic. I'm a little jealous. hehe. Okay maybe more than a little. I say, "Fix date night!"
I loved date nights. They're the best, especially when its become something you both did and looked forward to for so long. Romantic. I'm a little jealous. hehe. Okay maybe more than a little. I say, "Fix date night!"
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I know with my AH that for a long time I didn't tell him directly what I wanted bc if I did there was a good chance I'd get hurt so I preferred instead to act like everything was fine and then be hurt and sad and feel unimportant as you describe feeling. The issue (with me all those times) was ME. If I don't tell someone what I want, need, don't want and don't do it at the time when the issue is being addressed, then I can be good and pissed all I want after the fact but the only person I should be upset with me is me.
I love this. Wanttobe you nailed me on this one... now that I'm no longer with EXAH I find myself repeating this lovely little pattern with my new man. I'm so afraid to be vulnerable and to trust him with my feelings.
I love this. Wanttobe you nailed me on this one... now that I'm no longer with EXAH I find myself repeating this lovely little pattern with my new man. I'm so afraid to be vulnerable and to trust him with my feelings.
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I really appreciate the discussion of the "fake offer" here. My AH does it in reverse. He drags his heals, resists, argues and complains about something, then later denies there was ever a problem!
Thanks!
Thanks!
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Say nothing to him. If you need to say it, say it to somebody else. You set the bar for the night not being a priority, not him, and if he loves golf a beautiful spring day was calling to him big time.
Once is an anomoly. Twice may be as well. Three times is a trend.
He probably had a great time golfing. Taking that away from him would be selfish and problematic.
My 2 cents.
Cyranoak
Once is an anomoly. Twice may be as well. Three times is a trend.
He probably had a great time golfing. Taking that away from him would be selfish and problematic.
My 2 cents.
Cyranoak
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I don't see a reason to be upset really. You had to reschedule or cancel for whatever reason. Maybe he feels that the date night is more flexible. It is really important for each of you to have your own lives. It sucks because you want to spend time with him but guys think we react to things too emotionally and it may appear as 'drama' to him.
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Originally Posted by Cyranoak
You set the bar for the night not being a priority, not him
I did not say anything about a potential conflict, until he said the thing about going golfing, then caught himself saying, "oh, wait, are we going out tonight?"
That is when I said that there was something itching at me that I thought I should attend.
And, yes, he did have a great time golfing. he took his young son, and they had a terrific outing.
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I kept thinking about bringing this up, and I did decide not to cause trouble.
Yes, it would be perceived as drama.
I am not as chill as he is and I feel the compulsion to air things, bring up stuff, way more frequently than he sees fit.
We didn't have time for dinner and a movie this evening, but did meet for dinner and after a few minutes, he turned to me and said, "small talk, shrink appointment, summer nannying?" I chose a topic, and we talked all three, plus. It was a really good evening, finished off at the house with some guitar playing and singing.
I did ask at the end of the evening if Monday as Date Night worked out for him pretty well, for the most part, and if I threw him off because of the cancellations. He answered, "no" and "yeah". I said, "oh." . . . . "cuz yesterday it seemed like you forgot." To which he replied, "I did".
I think I was opening up the can just a bit, to see if anything came of it. I could have chosen to get upset ("you forgot? huh! I guess spending time with me isn't that important to you" etc) but I chose the high road and just said, "oh."
Case closed.
This is a busy, often forgetful, person. It's just the way he is. I have to choose to take things like this personally, or remember that he also forgets to hire a babysitter, that we're going to the opera this weekend, or out of town in two weeks. It's just part of life with this guy. For now, I'll keep him.
Yes, it would be perceived as drama.
I am not as chill as he is and I feel the compulsion to air things, bring up stuff, way more frequently than he sees fit.
We didn't have time for dinner and a movie this evening, but did meet for dinner and after a few minutes, he turned to me and said, "small talk, shrink appointment, summer nannying?" I chose a topic, and we talked all three, plus. It was a really good evening, finished off at the house with some guitar playing and singing.
I did ask at the end of the evening if Monday as Date Night worked out for him pretty well, for the most part, and if I threw him off because of the cancellations. He answered, "no" and "yeah". I said, "oh." . . . . "cuz yesterday it seemed like you forgot." To which he replied, "I did".
I think I was opening up the can just a bit, to see if anything came of it. I could have chosen to get upset ("you forgot? huh! I guess spending time with me isn't that important to you" etc) but I chose the high road and just said, "oh."
Case closed.
This is a busy, often forgetful, person. It's just the way he is. I have to choose to take things like this personally, or remember that he also forgets to hire a babysitter, that we're going to the opera this weekend, or out of town in two weeks. It's just part of life with this guy. For now, I'll keep him.
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It's like I want this boy to really want me, and want to have me around, but I don't want to be around all the time, so why would I expect him to want me to be?? And I want him to want to depend on me for emotional stuff, but I don't want him to be weak and fragile and clingy. Does that make ANY sense???
I am so proud of the way you handled your feelings Coffeedrinker. I want that. I need to get to myself to that point where I deal with my emotions in a healthy manner, and for me, I can't do that in the toxic relationship I have right now.
Thank you for sharing with us.
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