help
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: guadalajara Mexico
Posts: 10
help
Hi I am new to the forum and please forgive me for any mistakes I might make while posting this. I have been looking for help and a place to speak at and get things off my chest. This is about my wife and our family. My wife is an alcoholic and has admitted it. She has saught help but didn't continue it. My step-daughter also turned into an alcohoilc and is currently in treatment. Then there is my son and myself, we are both a wreck right now.
About three years ago my wife went on a binge for about 3 months and was very violent and manipulative to the point where I had left her with my son and with only our shirts on our back. I have everything in her name and that is a big mistake on my part because she threatened me at that time that if I showed up to the business that I created(automotive air conditioning service and repair) she would have me thrown in jail. I didn't go and finally got some of the anger out of me and called her that day and told her I would finally let her see our son. She showed up that day with the police and had me thrown in jail for domestic violence. The case is that this still affects me, she had her brothers show up and falsify reports. Why did I got back? I don't know. I love her and she got some help for a short time in that period and everything was good for about three years.
Now in those three years, I could see that she wasn't the same person and was always trying to please me and make me feel good. It was a long time before I recovered somewhat from that experience, and I don't think I still have fully recovered from that as it still brings up strong emotions while I am writing this right now, and we didn't have any intimacy for a long time. Recently before this last incident, we really started to have some intimacy again.
In the meantime, my daughter started to have problems and we got her into treatment. My daughter appears to be doing really well and struggling with her own issues. We visit her weekly and I have been pretty much her father throughout her life. My daughter I think will pull through this as she seems to be a little more open as to her problem. She helped me keep strong through this last incident that occured.
Well, last weekend she relapsed to some degree or maybe I am making excuses for her. I wanted to go out with her and enjoy a night on the town. Big mistake!!! She got some alcohol in her and she got violent over a situation and continued while we got home. She managed to accidently hit my son during her violent attack with me. I am not sure what to do. I thought about forcing her into rehab, I went and talked to them and actually had some support this time through my daughters rehab center. They ordered her to go to some meetings and she has been attending every other day but missed Friday. I need some help, I need to get this all out and have a clear mind and make some decisions. I would like to get some input and just have a place to express myself. She hasn't apologized for what she did either time. She hasn't made ammends either. I got to the point where I told her that she screwed up the situation between her family and me and when was she going to ammend this with her brothers. She avoids this subject completely. This last time she hasn't apologized but she did move out of the room and sleeps in another room at this point and sometimes I miss her but then I think about what happened and get upset and then I don't miss her anymore. She knows she did wrong on the inside becasuse this whole week I didn't speak to her and she cleaned everyday and had dinner ready on the table which is something that usually doesn't happen. But she can't admist she screwed up and come to me and say Hey, I screwed up I am sorry and really apologize and ammend her mistakes.
Another thing that happened was she told the rehab cneter that she had already advised the police that if she dissapeared then go looking for her at the rehab center. She is like, really out there and i don't know.. help please
About three years ago my wife went on a binge for about 3 months and was very violent and manipulative to the point where I had left her with my son and with only our shirts on our back. I have everything in her name and that is a big mistake on my part because she threatened me at that time that if I showed up to the business that I created(automotive air conditioning service and repair) she would have me thrown in jail. I didn't go and finally got some of the anger out of me and called her that day and told her I would finally let her see our son. She showed up that day with the police and had me thrown in jail for domestic violence. The case is that this still affects me, she had her brothers show up and falsify reports. Why did I got back? I don't know. I love her and she got some help for a short time in that period and everything was good for about three years.
Now in those three years, I could see that she wasn't the same person and was always trying to please me and make me feel good. It was a long time before I recovered somewhat from that experience, and I don't think I still have fully recovered from that as it still brings up strong emotions while I am writing this right now, and we didn't have any intimacy for a long time. Recently before this last incident, we really started to have some intimacy again.
In the meantime, my daughter started to have problems and we got her into treatment. My daughter appears to be doing really well and struggling with her own issues. We visit her weekly and I have been pretty much her father throughout her life. My daughter I think will pull through this as she seems to be a little more open as to her problem. She helped me keep strong through this last incident that occured.
Well, last weekend she relapsed to some degree or maybe I am making excuses for her. I wanted to go out with her and enjoy a night on the town. Big mistake!!! She got some alcohol in her and she got violent over a situation and continued while we got home. She managed to accidently hit my son during her violent attack with me. I am not sure what to do. I thought about forcing her into rehab, I went and talked to them and actually had some support this time through my daughters rehab center. They ordered her to go to some meetings and she has been attending every other day but missed Friday. I need some help, I need to get this all out and have a clear mind and make some decisions. I would like to get some input and just have a place to express myself. She hasn't apologized for what she did either time. She hasn't made ammends either. I got to the point where I told her that she screwed up the situation between her family and me and when was she going to ammend this with her brothers. She avoids this subject completely. This last time she hasn't apologized but she did move out of the room and sleeps in another room at this point and sometimes I miss her but then I think about what happened and get upset and then I don't miss her anymore. She knows she did wrong on the inside becasuse this whole week I didn't speak to her and she cleaned everyday and had dinner ready on the table which is something that usually doesn't happen. But she can't admist she screwed up and come to me and say Hey, I screwed up I am sorry and really apologize and ammend her mistakes.
Another thing that happened was she told the rehab cneter that she had already advised the police that if she dissapeared then go looking for her at the rehab center. She is like, really out there and i don't know.. help please
hi rolex and welcome to SR.
I'm glad you found us
and glad you found a place
to let some of this out!
I'm not familiar with the law in Mexico
but I know we have several members here in the forum
who list their addresses openly as Mexican residents.
Have you read the stickies at the top of the forum?
There's one that lists
how to handle a partner with alcoholism
another on how to find an alanon meeting in your area.
It also sounds to me like your daughter could use alateen.
you've found what is probably the most informed website on the net
regarding addiction, alcoholism, and recovery.
I'm so glad you're here.
welcome.
I'm glad you found us
and glad you found a place
to let some of this out!
I'm not familiar with the law in Mexico
but I know we have several members here in the forum
who list their addresses openly as Mexican residents.
Have you read the stickies at the top of the forum?
There's one that lists
how to handle a partner with alcoholism
another on how to find an alanon meeting in your area.
It also sounds to me like your daughter could use alateen.
you've found what is probably the most informed website on the net
regarding addiction, alcoholism, and recovery.
I'm so glad you're here.
welcome.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
I am a little confused about a few things, and please bear with me, and try to explain further:
The daughter went to rehab and is doing well?
You went out on the town with the wife?
The brothers need amends for...?
First thing you need to stop doing, if you went out on the twon with your wife is stop drinking with her. AT all.
This is not healthy.
If daughter is doing well, I would consider asking wife to leave and stay elsewhere until she can be a decent family member.
Asking for amends while an alcoholic is still using, is not in recovery, is in denial is not going to get you anywhere, and as you will learn reading here, even when they do get sober, we dont ask for amends. They have their own timeline.
She is not in recovery.
You and you kids are in a very unhealthy and volatile environment as long as she is there, and not in recovery.
You might want to start listing out what you cannot abide by. These are boundaries.
For you, and for the health and safety of the kids/teens.
Try not to think in terms of ultimatums, but rather in terms of what you will or will not live with...will or will not allow your children to be exposed to, or in the line of fire of.
Make this list. Post it here, if you like.
But, I would definitely say, do not drink with her. For me, that was step one.
Keep posting, you are at the right place for help and clarity.
The daughter went to rehab and is doing well?
You went out on the town with the wife?
The brothers need amends for...?
First thing you need to stop doing, if you went out on the twon with your wife is stop drinking with her. AT all.
This is not healthy.
If daughter is doing well, I would consider asking wife to leave and stay elsewhere until she can be a decent family member.
Asking for amends while an alcoholic is still using, is not in recovery, is in denial is not going to get you anywhere, and as you will learn reading here, even when they do get sober, we dont ask for amends. They have their own timeline.
She is not in recovery.
You and you kids are in a very unhealthy and volatile environment as long as she is there, and not in recovery.
You might want to start listing out what you cannot abide by. These are boundaries.
For you, and for the health and safety of the kids/teens.
Try not to think in terms of ultimatums, but rather in terms of what you will or will not live with...will or will not allow your children to be exposed to, or in the line of fire of.
Make this list. Post it here, if you like.
But, I would definitely say, do not drink with her. For me, that was step one.
Keep posting, you are at the right place for help and clarity.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: guadalajara Mexico
Posts: 10
The daughter went to rehab and is doing well?
yes, this is correct
You went out on the town with the wife?
yes, this is correct also. I know now that this was a big mistake.
The brothers need amends for...?
The brother doesn't need ammends, the family needs to be told what really really happened if they dont' know. If they do know the truth, and they followed her actions as support to be vindictive, then they are cut off from me and my family. I went to them at one time about 3yrs. ago and asked for help from them and to support me with helping her. As far as I can tell, she might have lied to them because she doesn't want to work out the situation with them. So this makes me believe she hasn't been honest with my or them.
First thing you need to stop doing, if you went out on the twon with your wife is stop drinking with her. AT all.
I know. I will try to be clear and concise in my posts from now on, I was a little shook up because I have never really told or talked to anybody about this on an emotional level.
yes, this is correct
You went out on the town with the wife?
yes, this is correct also. I know now that this was a big mistake.
The brothers need amends for...?
The brother doesn't need ammends, the family needs to be told what really really happened if they dont' know. If they do know the truth, and they followed her actions as support to be vindictive, then they are cut off from me and my family. I went to them at one time about 3yrs. ago and asked for help from them and to support me with helping her. As far as I can tell, she might have lied to them because she doesn't want to work out the situation with them. So this makes me believe she hasn't been honest with my or them.
First thing you need to stop doing, if you went out on the twon with your wife is stop drinking with her. AT all.
I know. I will try to be clear and concise in my posts from now on, I was a little shook up because I have never really told or talked to anybody about this on an emotional level.
Last edited by rolexcomm; 04-10-2011 at 01:16 PM. Reason: more information
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: guadalajara Mexico
Posts: 10
I have thought through what you mentioned, there are several things that I won't let myself or my children live with or be subject to. I can understand her underlying issues as I am sure we all have them, but when you say, asking for ammends is not going to happen. Explain this to me, do they not feel any remorse? I just can't imagine what goes through their minds. I know if I was to come home, half lit, and just start banging on her or anybody for that matter, I would feel bad. One of the first things that I would want to do, would be to make the other person feel like I was truly sorry and fell better.
I know she has always blamed me for her violence. She has told me that she has grown up with this in her own family and I know that is where she learned it from. If at any time I have to restrain her like this last time, I held her down by her hair until she said she wan't going to hit me anymore, she blames me for this or what happened or pain she might of felt during me restraining her. She will not accept what actions she might have displayed, she says that she can't remember on several occasions. Is this true?the people at the alcohol center tell me this isn't true and that they do remember everything but don't want to admit it. She doesn't want to talk in depth about it and this bothers me alot. She acts like her life goes on without any interruptions whatsoever not thinking about what her actions have provoked on others.
I know she has always blamed me for her violence. She has told me that she has grown up with this in her own family and I know that is where she learned it from. If at any time I have to restrain her like this last time, I held her down by her hair until she said she wan't going to hit me anymore, she blames me for this or what happened or pain she might of felt during me restraining her. She will not accept what actions she might have displayed, she says that she can't remember on several occasions. Is this true?the people at the alcohol center tell me this isn't true and that they do remember everything but don't want to admit it. She doesn't want to talk in depth about it and this bothers me alot. She acts like her life goes on without any interruptions whatsoever not thinking about what her actions have provoked on others.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 174
I really don't have a whole lot of advice because I am not very good with words, but I want to let you know that you definitely came to the right place. Everyone here is wonderful and so very supportive. Please keep posting and know that we are all here for you.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
HI. This might come across as tough love, but....
Do they not feel remorse?
This is tricky, but, in my experience, my A was so addicted and invested in denial that he did not feel much at all, except for self pity, was not able to come into contact with the remorse. It would have surely consumed him, he thought.
It does not really matter if she feels remose. Right now, you are in the midst of aggressive alcoholic behavior. No time to ask whether she feels bad about it, lets start working on how to remove you and the kids from danger until she starts dealing with her addiction...AND SHE MAY NOT... but that does not change the fact that your kids deserve to live without this chaos.
One of the first things I would want to do, would be to make the other person feel like I was truly sorry and feel better
I am pretty sure that my A wanted to drink more to block out whatever harm he was doing. And he was physically, and psychologically addicted. He would do anything to have more alcohol, and to keep reality at bay, and especially to keep the reality of feeling/seeing what he was doing to the people who loved him at bay.
Either way you and your kids are being abused. It doesnt matter whether she admits it, says sorry, because if she makes no efforts to establish real recovery for herself, which would keep you and your kids from the actual effects of her awful behavior, You still have the behavior. And you and the kids do not have the luxury of blacking out,(however your daughter may be trying..)
I know she has always blamed me for her violence.
Something you will read about here, a lot: Alcoholics blame others for their actions, their inactions, their drinking, and geez, for their bad breath, and not winning the lottery! This is a known true fact. The significant other is the most likely victim of the blame projection, but it can be anyone, really. family members, their childhood.
The truth is your wife is an adult with a terrible addiction to alcohol, and her actions are still hers, and she is the only one who can decide to change her life.
She says she cant remember on several occasions. Is this true?
For many people here, our As did have blackouts, and they would not remember, and some would exhibit SELECTIVE memory.
Either way, she is abusive and out of control. It does not matter whether she remembers or not, as you and your kids are still being abused. She is a grown woman.
NOw, seriously, try making a mental or a real list of what is not OK> What would you consider a dealbreaker if you knew it would be happening before you met her...
Would you say, "OH, Yes, I would love to be in a family with a woman who drinks, and lashes out, who is steeped in addiction and fully denying it."
Of course not.
Once you can identify some of these things you can start deciding how to make some clear boundaries in your life for you and your kids.
You can make boundary statements by speaking about what YOU will not live with, without telling her what she must do.
The tricky thing about making boundaries is that you must be willing to hold your ground.
Some examples of a few boundaries many here at SR have made:
No drinking in the house. At all. It is unhealthy for you, for her, and for your kids.
No being drunk in the house, at all.
It sounds like you have no choice, because living this way is not working out for anyone but her addicted self. If it is comfortable for her to continue on without consequences, ahe has no reason to give up her addiction.
Keep posting!
Do they not feel remorse?
This is tricky, but, in my experience, my A was so addicted and invested in denial that he did not feel much at all, except for self pity, was not able to come into contact with the remorse. It would have surely consumed him, he thought.
It does not really matter if she feels remose. Right now, you are in the midst of aggressive alcoholic behavior. No time to ask whether she feels bad about it, lets start working on how to remove you and the kids from danger until she starts dealing with her addiction...AND SHE MAY NOT... but that does not change the fact that your kids deserve to live without this chaos.
One of the first things I would want to do, would be to make the other person feel like I was truly sorry and feel better
I am pretty sure that my A wanted to drink more to block out whatever harm he was doing. And he was physically, and psychologically addicted. He would do anything to have more alcohol, and to keep reality at bay, and especially to keep the reality of feeling/seeing what he was doing to the people who loved him at bay.
Either way you and your kids are being abused. It doesnt matter whether she admits it, says sorry, because if she makes no efforts to establish real recovery for herself, which would keep you and your kids from the actual effects of her awful behavior, You still have the behavior. And you and the kids do not have the luxury of blacking out,(however your daughter may be trying..)
I know she has always blamed me for her violence.
Something you will read about here, a lot: Alcoholics blame others for their actions, their inactions, their drinking, and geez, for their bad breath, and not winning the lottery! This is a known true fact. The significant other is the most likely victim of the blame projection, but it can be anyone, really. family members, their childhood.
The truth is your wife is an adult with a terrible addiction to alcohol, and her actions are still hers, and she is the only one who can decide to change her life.
She says she cant remember on several occasions. Is this true?
For many people here, our As did have blackouts, and they would not remember, and some would exhibit SELECTIVE memory.
Either way, she is abusive and out of control. It does not matter whether she remembers or not, as you and your kids are still being abused. She is a grown woman.
NOw, seriously, try making a mental or a real list of what is not OK> What would you consider a dealbreaker if you knew it would be happening before you met her...
Would you say, "OH, Yes, I would love to be in a family with a woman who drinks, and lashes out, who is steeped in addiction and fully denying it."
Of course not.
Once you can identify some of these things you can start deciding how to make some clear boundaries in your life for you and your kids.
You can make boundary statements by speaking about what YOU will not live with, without telling her what she must do.
The tricky thing about making boundaries is that you must be willing to hold your ground.
Some examples of a few boundaries many here at SR have made:
No drinking in the house. At all. It is unhealthy for you, for her, and for your kids.
No being drunk in the house, at all.
It sounds like you have no choice, because living this way is not working out for anyone but her addicted self. If it is comfortable for her to continue on without consequences, ahe has no reason to give up her addiction.
Keep posting!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Rolex,
I also wanted to suggest that you look at the sticky at the top of the friends and family forum page titled "Al Anon self test"
This is a good place to start in naming the things that alcoholism is doing to you and your family.
I also wanted to suggest that you look at the sticky at the top of the friends and family forum page titled "Al Anon self test"
This is a good place to start in naming the things that alcoholism is doing to you and your family.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: guadalajara Mexico
Posts: 10
Tough love is something I am not very good at. I struggle with my own issues daily and trying to just make it through life sometimes seems hard for me. Maybe I am co-dependant and try to make excuses or minimize her actions.
The boundaries and the wording of those boundaries is the tricky part for me, I think some good boundaries would be as follows:
1. no drinking whatsoever.
2. attend her groups on a daily basis
3. no verbal aggresiveness or physical abuse for that matter.
Obviously I can state all of these in the manner you described, I can't live or subject myself to living with you drinking.
I can't live with you if you aren't receiving help for your alcoholism. etc. etc.
Be supportive of her is what I can think of for me. I just don't know how long I can hang on and be supportive without any interaction such as a couple. I already feel lonely at this point and sad that this has happened again. I had played the angry husband all week and not spoke to her other than basic household details. There were times when I was missing or wanting to talk to her and all I had to do was think about the bad things and that would go away. I have tried to detach myself from her as mucyh as possible because I don't know where this is going to go.
I broke down yesterday when she walked into my room and went into the closet and I asked her what she was "stealing" and she turned to me and said nothing, but I smiled and shen knew it was a joke and came over and gave me a small kiss on the lips. I don't know if this was good, bad or me giving in to her again. I would like to just be the supportive husband and make sure the we all get through this as a family.
As far as the children are concerned, my daughter is in the detox facility as we speak, doing great so she isn't subject to any abuse. My son I think is going to be attending some sort of counseling to make sure there are no long term affects from this. And me I have been attending counseling to get through some of the past issues that occured and will continue to do so.
The boundaries and the wording of those boundaries is the tricky part for me, I think some good boundaries would be as follows:
1. no drinking whatsoever.
2. attend her groups on a daily basis
3. no verbal aggresiveness or physical abuse for that matter.
Obviously I can state all of these in the manner you described, I can't live or subject myself to living with you drinking.
I can't live with you if you aren't receiving help for your alcoholism. etc. etc.
Be supportive of her is what I can think of for me. I just don't know how long I can hang on and be supportive without any interaction such as a couple. I already feel lonely at this point and sad that this has happened again. I had played the angry husband all week and not spoke to her other than basic household details. There were times when I was missing or wanting to talk to her and all I had to do was think about the bad things and that would go away. I have tried to detach myself from her as mucyh as possible because I don't know where this is going to go.
I broke down yesterday when she walked into my room and went into the closet and I asked her what she was "stealing" and she turned to me and said nothing, but I smiled and shen knew it was a joke and came over and gave me a small kiss on the lips. I don't know if this was good, bad or me giving in to her again. I would like to just be the supportive husband and make sure the we all get through this as a family.
As far as the children are concerned, my daughter is in the detox facility as we speak, doing great so she isn't subject to any abuse. My son I think is going to be attending some sort of counseling to make sure there are no long term affects from this. And me I have been attending counseling to get through some of the past issues that occured and will continue to do so.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
These are good boundaries you have listed.
BUt, what will you do if the boundary is crossed?
Its important to know that.
It may be lonely to be alone, but if you are lonely while she is there, then what are you putting up with?
Many of us, here at SR came here out of the pain of being lonely even though we had a "partner" right next to us.
The partner in my case was completely absent to any type of healthy loving.
I am putting a paste-in here, about boundaries for co dependents.
HEre is the paste in:
From Beyond Codependency by Melody Beattie
We don't have to contruct a blockade to protect our territory; we don't have to become hypervigilant. We need to learn to pay attention. Here are some tips for strengthening boundary-setting skills:
When we identify we need to set a limit with someone, do it clearly, preferably without anger, and in as few words as possible. Avoid justifying, rationalizing, or apologizing. Offer a brief explanation, if it makes sense to do that. We will not be able to maintain intimate relationships until we can tell people what hurts and what feels good. The most important person to notify of our boundary is ourselves.
We cannot simultaneously set a boundary ( a limit) and take care of another person's feelings. The two acts are mutually exclusive.
We'll probably feel ashamed and afraid when we set boundaries. Do it anyway. People may not know they're trespassing. And people don't respect people they can use. People use people they can use, and respect people they can't use. Healthy limits benefit everyone. Children and adults will feel more comfortable around us.
Anger, rage, complaining and whining are clues to boundaries we need to set.The things we say we can't stand, don't like, feel angry about and hate may be areas screaming for boundaries. Recovery doesn't mean an absence of feeling angry, whining or complaining. Recovery means we learn to listen closely to ourselves to hear what we're saying. These things are indicators of problems, like a flashing red light on the dashboard. Shame and fear may be the barrier we need to break through to take care of ourselves. Other clues that we may need to set a boundary are feeling threatened, suffocated or victimised by someone. We need to pay attention to what our bodies are telling us too. And, as I said before, we may need to get angry to set a boundary, but we don't need to stay resentful to enforce it.
We'll be tested when we set boundaries. Plan on it. It doesn't do any good to set a boundary until we are ready to enforce it. Often, the key to boundaries isn't convincing other people we have limits--it's convincing ourselves. Once we know, really know, what our limits are, it won't be difficult to convince others. In fact, people often sense when we've reached our limit. We'll stop attracting so many boundary invaders. Things will change. A woman went to her counselor and recited her usual and regular tirade of complaints about her husband. "When will this stop?" the woman finally asked her counselor. "When you want it to." the counselor said.
Some people are happy to respect our boundaries. The problem hasn't been what they've been doing to us; it's what we've been doing to ourselves. Some people may get angry at us for setting boundaries, particularly if we're changing a system by setting a boundary where we previously had none. People especially become angry if we've been caretaking them, or allowing them to use or control us, and we decide it's time to change that.
Be prepared to follow through by acting in congruence with boundaries.Our boundaries need to match our behaviour. What we do needs to match what we say. If you say your boundary is not to let other people drive your car, but you continue to let people take your car, then whine about it, it's not a boundary yet. Consequences and ultimatums are one way to enforce boundaries. For instance, if your boundary is that you won't live with active alcoholism and a drinking alcoholic is living with you, you can give him or her an ultimatum - an either/or. Either that person stops drinking and starts recovering or you move. I've often heard people complain, "I've set a boundary, but Henry won't respect it." Boundaries are to take care of ourselves, not to control others. If we set a boundary not to be around practicing alcoholics, it isn't to force Henry to stop drinking. Henry can choose to drink or not to drink., Our boundary gives us a guideline to make our choice - whether we want to be around Henry.
Some people are happy to respect our boundaries.The problem hasn't been what they've been doing to us; it's what we've been doing to ourselves. Some people may get angry at us for setting boundaries, particularly if we're changing a system by setting a boundary where previously we had none. People especially become angry if we've been caretaking them, or allowing them to use or control us, and we decide it's time to change that.
We'll set boundaries when we're ready, and not a minute sooner.We do it on our own time, not someone else's - not our sponsor's timing, our group's timing, nor our counselor's timing. That's because it's connected to our growth.
A support system can be helpful as we strive to establish and enforce boundaries.It can be valuable to have feedback about what's normal and what';s not, what our rights are and aren't. A cheering squad is very helpful as we strive to assert these rights.
There's a fun side to boundary setting too. Besides learning to identify what hurts and what we don't like, we learn to identify what we like, and what feels good, what we want, and what brings us pleasure. That's when we begin to enhance the quality of our lives. If we're not certain who we are, and what we like and want, we have a right to be excited about those discoveries.
............................
BUt, what will you do if the boundary is crossed?
Its important to know that.
It may be lonely to be alone, but if you are lonely while she is there, then what are you putting up with?
Many of us, here at SR came here out of the pain of being lonely even though we had a "partner" right next to us.
The partner in my case was completely absent to any type of healthy loving.
I am putting a paste-in here, about boundaries for co dependents.
HEre is the paste in:
From Beyond Codependency by Melody Beattie
We don't have to contruct a blockade to protect our territory; we don't have to become hypervigilant. We need to learn to pay attention. Here are some tips for strengthening boundary-setting skills:
When we identify we need to set a limit with someone, do it clearly, preferably without anger, and in as few words as possible. Avoid justifying, rationalizing, or apologizing. Offer a brief explanation, if it makes sense to do that. We will not be able to maintain intimate relationships until we can tell people what hurts and what feels good. The most important person to notify of our boundary is ourselves.
We cannot simultaneously set a boundary ( a limit) and take care of another person's feelings. The two acts are mutually exclusive.
We'll probably feel ashamed and afraid when we set boundaries. Do it anyway. People may not know they're trespassing. And people don't respect people they can use. People use people they can use, and respect people they can't use. Healthy limits benefit everyone. Children and adults will feel more comfortable around us.
Anger, rage, complaining and whining are clues to boundaries we need to set.The things we say we can't stand, don't like, feel angry about and hate may be areas screaming for boundaries. Recovery doesn't mean an absence of feeling angry, whining or complaining. Recovery means we learn to listen closely to ourselves to hear what we're saying. These things are indicators of problems, like a flashing red light on the dashboard. Shame and fear may be the barrier we need to break through to take care of ourselves. Other clues that we may need to set a boundary are feeling threatened, suffocated or victimised by someone. We need to pay attention to what our bodies are telling us too. And, as I said before, we may need to get angry to set a boundary, but we don't need to stay resentful to enforce it.
We'll be tested when we set boundaries. Plan on it. It doesn't do any good to set a boundary until we are ready to enforce it. Often, the key to boundaries isn't convincing other people we have limits--it's convincing ourselves. Once we know, really know, what our limits are, it won't be difficult to convince others. In fact, people often sense when we've reached our limit. We'll stop attracting so many boundary invaders. Things will change. A woman went to her counselor and recited her usual and regular tirade of complaints about her husband. "When will this stop?" the woman finally asked her counselor. "When you want it to." the counselor said.
Some people are happy to respect our boundaries. The problem hasn't been what they've been doing to us; it's what we've been doing to ourselves. Some people may get angry at us for setting boundaries, particularly if we're changing a system by setting a boundary where we previously had none. People especially become angry if we've been caretaking them, or allowing them to use or control us, and we decide it's time to change that.
Be prepared to follow through by acting in congruence with boundaries.Our boundaries need to match our behaviour. What we do needs to match what we say. If you say your boundary is not to let other people drive your car, but you continue to let people take your car, then whine about it, it's not a boundary yet. Consequences and ultimatums are one way to enforce boundaries. For instance, if your boundary is that you won't live with active alcoholism and a drinking alcoholic is living with you, you can give him or her an ultimatum - an either/or. Either that person stops drinking and starts recovering or you move. I've often heard people complain, "I've set a boundary, but Henry won't respect it." Boundaries are to take care of ourselves, not to control others. If we set a boundary not to be around practicing alcoholics, it isn't to force Henry to stop drinking. Henry can choose to drink or not to drink., Our boundary gives us a guideline to make our choice - whether we want to be around Henry.
Some people are happy to respect our boundaries.The problem hasn't been what they've been doing to us; it's what we've been doing to ourselves. Some people may get angry at us for setting boundaries, particularly if we're changing a system by setting a boundary where previously we had none. People especially become angry if we've been caretaking them, or allowing them to use or control us, and we decide it's time to change that.
We'll set boundaries when we're ready, and not a minute sooner.We do it on our own time, not someone else's - not our sponsor's timing, our group's timing, nor our counselor's timing. That's because it's connected to our growth.
A support system can be helpful as we strive to establish and enforce boundaries.It can be valuable to have feedback about what's normal and what';s not, what our rights are and aren't. A cheering squad is very helpful as we strive to assert these rights.
There's a fun side to boundary setting too. Besides learning to identify what hurts and what we don't like, we learn to identify what we like, and what feels good, what we want, and what brings us pleasure. That's when we begin to enhance the quality of our lives. If we're not certain who we are, and what we like and want, we have a right to be excited about those discoveries.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: guadalajara Mexico
Posts: 10
I would like to state another thing, she isn't drinking daily like 3 yrs. ago. She isn't not coming home. She slipped up and I know it and it all went back to the same. She is sick and needs help. But how do I make sure she continues with the help and she doesn't get lazy about it like she did 3yrs. ago??
We went on Saturday as a family to visit my daughter and I was in a conversation with my son when I overheard my daughter and wife chatting. My daughter was telling my wife that she needed to get up, go to the stand and let it all out and that when she was able to talk about things without crying then it was a subject that she was feeling better about. My wife listened to all of this, but I think she is embarrased to admit she has a problem in front of others. My wife is the type who gets he hair done on a weekly basis, who gets her nails done weekly and so I am sure this embarrases her to have success and at the same time admit that she has a problem. Life tells us that when we have been successful in life that it is through hard work and that our family life is usually perfect, but we all know this isn't true. Some of the most successful people usually have the most problems.
We went on Saturday as a family to visit my daughter and I was in a conversation with my son when I overheard my daughter and wife chatting. My daughter was telling my wife that she needed to get up, go to the stand and let it all out and that when she was able to talk about things without crying then it was a subject that she was feeling better about. My wife listened to all of this, but I think she is embarrased to admit she has a problem in front of others. My wife is the type who gets he hair done on a weekly basis, who gets her nails done weekly and so I am sure this embarrases her to have success and at the same time admit that she has a problem. Life tells us that when we have been successful in life that it is through hard work and that our family life is usually perfect, but we all know this isn't true. Some of the most successful people usually have the most problems.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
I think what is very hard to come to terms with, is that YOU cant make sure she does ANYTHING.
You dont have that kind of control over what another person does.
You mistakenly think you might, but if she messes up, because she wants to drink, or cannot control her addiction, or doesnt work on the program out of shame or embarrassment and falls off, that is what SHE is going to do.
All you have control over is yourself. And your actions, reactions. Your choices.
And your choices affect your children.
You can make the boundaries. And be prepared to follow through.
1. no drinking whatsoever.
OK. This is a reasonable boundary, because she has proven to be out of control, in addiction, and dangerous/disrespectful to you and the whole family.
What will you do, if she comes home with alcohol on her breath, and denies it, but you know better?
What will you do if she openly admits that she drank. And she has disrespected your boundary?
What is your response to that choice on her part?
Will she have to leave until she can respect the boundary?
2. attend her groups on a daily basis
What if she starts making excuses for not going? What if she says she is going but you find out its a lie?
What are the choices you will make in response to this broken boundary?
Remember, You do not want to live with an alcoholic who is not working a program.
3. no verbal aggresiveness or physical abuse for that matter.
This is a no brainer. And for a lot of people this type of overt abuse is a dealbreaker.
Drunk or not.
I think you are askng good questions.
I am just trying to assist you in processing it through.
Please re read the paste in in my last post i this thread, about boundaries.
Keep posting!
You dont have that kind of control over what another person does.
You mistakenly think you might, but if she messes up, because she wants to drink, or cannot control her addiction, or doesnt work on the program out of shame or embarrassment and falls off, that is what SHE is going to do.
All you have control over is yourself. And your actions, reactions. Your choices.
And your choices affect your children.
You can make the boundaries. And be prepared to follow through.
1. no drinking whatsoever.
OK. This is a reasonable boundary, because she has proven to be out of control, in addiction, and dangerous/disrespectful to you and the whole family.
What will you do, if she comes home with alcohol on her breath, and denies it, but you know better?
What will you do if she openly admits that she drank. And she has disrespected your boundary?
What is your response to that choice on her part?
Will she have to leave until she can respect the boundary?
2. attend her groups on a daily basis
What if she starts making excuses for not going? What if she says she is going but you find out its a lie?
What are the choices you will make in response to this broken boundary?
Remember, You do not want to live with an alcoholic who is not working a program.
3. no verbal aggresiveness or physical abuse for that matter.
This is a no brainer. And for a lot of people this type of overt abuse is a dealbreaker.
Drunk or not.
I think you are askng good questions.
I am just trying to assist you in processing it through.
Please re read the paste in in my last post i this thread, about boundaries.
Keep posting!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: guadalajara Mexico
Posts: 10
it is official, I am co-depandant and an enabler. those are all good questions you have asked me and the first thing I need to do would be to be straight forward with myself. Not her. I need to be very clear to myself and disciplined when it comes to what I want and if I decide to leave her, or ask her to leave etc. If she does decide to drink, then I would have to follow through with that promise to myself and act on the boudary that I have placed on myself. I guess I need to learn how to be a little more selfish, I am not going to change her if she doesn't want to change. I can only assist her and protect myself and children. I really really need to look at this from a different angle as I have never done this before. I have always looked at this as if you do this or else type situation, and start looking at this as if you do this, I will have to do this to protect myself type consequence.
I am going to think about this througout the day as to what the action would be if the boundary is broken. My own daughter told me to make sure I was clear in my actions because I was mitigating it and she specifially told me that don't take chances because she might decide to come home some night and become aggresive again. It is good to hear it from somewhere else and lean some techniques to apply this.
I am going to think about this througout the day as to what the action would be if the boundary is broken. My own daughter told me to make sure I was clear in my actions because I was mitigating it and she specifially told me that don't take chances because she might decide to come home some night and become aggresive again. It is good to hear it from somewhere else and lean some techniques to apply this.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Yes.
And your daughter sounds like she is learning a lot, about addiction, about boundaries, etc.
This is good news!
Keep posting, here, it will start to make some sense.
Its hard living with active or recovering alcoholics.
Its hard on them, but they sort of get to numb the pain.
The rest of us are here, having to live life and pick up the slack.
When we stop picking up their slack, they have to stand up.
Its a change of the way you are used to dealing with things, but, I think you will find that making boundaries becomes easier and clearer the more you do it.
And it can really restore some of that calm and serenity, when you stop focusing on her and start focusing on you. It is really all that you have control over.
Also, keep this in mind:
You did not CAUSE it,
You cannot CURE it,
and you can't CONTROL it.
this is her work. Your work is keeping your life sane, safe, and healthy for you and your kids.
That is not selfish, btw, LOL.
That is healthy.
And your daughter sounds like she is learning a lot, about addiction, about boundaries, etc.
This is good news!
Keep posting, here, it will start to make some sense.
Its hard living with active or recovering alcoholics.
Its hard on them, but they sort of get to numb the pain.
The rest of us are here, having to live life and pick up the slack.
When we stop picking up their slack, they have to stand up.
Its a change of the way you are used to dealing with things, but, I think you will find that making boundaries becomes easier and clearer the more you do it.
And it can really restore some of that calm and serenity, when you stop focusing on her and start focusing on you. It is really all that you have control over.
Also, keep this in mind:
You did not CAUSE it,
You cannot CURE it,
and you can't CONTROL it.
this is her work. Your work is keeping your life sane, safe, and healthy for you and your kids.
That is not selfish, btw, LOL.
That is healthy.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: guadalajara Mexico
Posts: 10
Buffalo, I have been reading around and specifically find it interesting that we all seem to go through the same with our partners. I read through some of your posts and they seem to me, just like mine. Confused and just not sure who's shoulder to lean on or where to get direction or strength for that matter, to continue on the path of recovery as you have said. I don't feel like I am the sick one in the household but maybe I am for putting up with this behavior and alowing these actions to continue and mitigating the circumstances surrounding the situation. It seems like everything in my own personal case is haywire, I am not sure what the right thing to do, how I should go about it, just plain old tired all the time and depressed.
I have my own issues that I have to deal with, I am not sure of the right path because I don't know it myself. Is there an end to everything? is there a purpose to what is going on? Are people geniually happy with life? or do they just say they are so others won't suspect that they too have problems unique to their lives? I am sorry about this post, it is something that came to me when I was reading around through other posts on the forum. I know it might be a little off track on not on base but these are some of the doubts I have and am sure others have had as well.
I have my own issues that I have to deal with, I am not sure of the right path because I don't know it myself. Is there an end to everything? is there a purpose to what is going on? Are people geniually happy with life? or do they just say they are so others won't suspect that they too have problems unique to their lives? I am sorry about this post, it is something that came to me when I was reading around through other posts on the forum. I know it might be a little off track on not on base but these are some of the doubts I have and am sure others have had as well.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: guadalajara Mexico
Posts: 10
Do you worry about how much someone else drinks? Yes.
Do you have money problems because of someone else's drinking? No
Do you tell lies to cover up for someone else's drinking? Yes.
Do you feel that if the drinker cared about you, he or she would stop drinking to please you? Yes.
Do you blame the drinker's behavior on his or her companions? Yes.
Are plans frequently upset or canceled or meals delayed because of the drinker? No.
Do you make threats, such as, "If you don't stop drinking, I'll leave you"? Yep.
Do you secretly try to smell the drinker's breath? No.
Are you afraid to upset someone for fear it will set off a drinking bout? drinking bout no, argument yes.
Have you been hurt or embarrassed by a drinker's behavior? Yes.
Are holidays and gatherings spoiled because of drinking? Yes.
Have you considered calling the police for help in fear of abuse? Yep.
Do you search for hidden alcohol? No.
Do you ever ride in a car with a driver who has been drinking? No
Have you refused social invitations out of fear or anxiety? No
Do you feel like a failure because you can't control the drinking? No
Do you think that if the drinker stopped drinking, your other problems would be solved? Yep.
Do you ever threaten to hurt yourself to scare the drinker? No.
Do you feel angry, confused, or depressed most of the time? Yep.
Do you feel there is no one who understands your problems? Yes.
Do you have money problems because of someone else's drinking? No
Do you tell lies to cover up for someone else's drinking? Yes.
Do you feel that if the drinker cared about you, he or she would stop drinking to please you? Yes.
Do you blame the drinker's behavior on his or her companions? Yes.
Are plans frequently upset or canceled or meals delayed because of the drinker? No.
Do you make threats, such as, "If you don't stop drinking, I'll leave you"? Yep.
Do you secretly try to smell the drinker's breath? No.
Are you afraid to upset someone for fear it will set off a drinking bout? drinking bout no, argument yes.
Have you been hurt or embarrassed by a drinker's behavior? Yes.
Are holidays and gatherings spoiled because of drinking? Yes.
Have you considered calling the police for help in fear of abuse? Yep.
Do you search for hidden alcohol? No.
Do you ever ride in a car with a driver who has been drinking? No
Have you refused social invitations out of fear or anxiety? No
Do you feel like a failure because you can't control the drinking? No
Do you think that if the drinker stopped drinking, your other problems would be solved? Yep.
Do you ever threaten to hurt yourself to scare the drinker? No.
Do you feel angry, confused, or depressed most of the time? Yep.
Do you feel there is no one who understands your problems? Yes.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: guadalajara Mexico
Posts: 10
Does anyone have any literature that they know of online or any good books up in the states that I can order from amazon or something of the sorts and have them sent to me here in Mexico. I am american, do read and write in spanish, but just won't understand it the same as in english. thank you
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Well, Amazon has lots of books.
One that people recommend here, often is "codependent no more" by Melody Beattie.
Also, I may be mistaken, but I am pretty sure you can order books from alanon websites.
Posting and reading here is invaluable.
And in regards to the last question on the questionaire,
"Do you feel like there is no one who understands your problems?"
Well, I know you are finding out there are a lot of us who understand, and who are all at different layers of the onion of figuring it out. Figuring how to get back to happiness. For ourselves, and some of us for our kids.
One that people recommend here, often is "codependent no more" by Melody Beattie.
Also, I may be mistaken, but I am pretty sure you can order books from alanon websites.
Posting and reading here is invaluable.
And in regards to the last question on the questionaire,
"Do you feel like there is no one who understands your problems?"
Well, I know you are finding out there are a lot of us who understand, and who are all at different layers of the onion of figuring it out. Figuring how to get back to happiness. For ourselves, and some of us for our kids.
"Codependent No More" is a great one, as Buffalo66 said.
I also have a copy of "The Language of Letting Go," by the same author.
It's a daily reader format, and provides useful thoughts and tidbits, one day at a time. It's been pretty good at giving me what I need to survive the day - which surprises me, but I'm grateful!
If there's anything specific you're looking into, as well, ask! There's great books on pretty much any subject you ever wanted to look into!
I also have a copy of "The Language of Letting Go," by the same author.
It's a daily reader format, and provides useful thoughts and tidbits, one day at a time. It's been pretty good at giving me what I need to survive the day - which surprises me, but I'm grateful!
If there's anything specific you're looking into, as well, ask! There's great books on pretty much any subject you ever wanted to look into!
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