Guilt Good: Shame Bad: Projection Awful
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2
Guilt Good: Shame Bad: Projection Awful
Hello all. This is my first post, although I have lurked for a long time now.
The funny thing is that I started coming here to read posts when I started Alanon on April 1, 2010. Friday was my one year anniversary in Alanon. March 9th was my qualifier's 6 month sober birthday! He is 55 and this is not his first time sober. Last time was over 10 yrs. ago.
He is doing so much internal work and some work on how he reacts/acts with me and others. Due to the relative calm, when things get heated I can be more clear. I have noticed a pattern that I need some help with. I know this is not uncommon, but I need insight.
When he does something that he feels guilt for...it quickly turns to shame and then blame. Ex: He said something about my personality, which was an opinion, and I respectfully disagreed but said his opinion is his and therefor valid and I could not argue with it. He was concerned he hurt my feelings. Within 5 minutes he was frustrated over a dirty pot on the stove and brought up things from 2 years ago and just went off about it all. I did not engage. He calmed down on his own.
This pattern of a guilty action then nearly immediate anger at me for petty things(disproportionate anger)
seems to happen every time he feels he has let me down or disappointed himself. This was true when he was still drinking, but as I said it is clearer now.
The other day his words after realizing he did something wrong that had a consequence led to him going through a list of what he did, what he could have done different and then rationalizing. It was like listening to both sides of a disagreement. It is almost as if he expects the anger and disappointment from me and when I don't go there with him he does not know what to do. It breaks my heart to see him doing this to himself and it is upsetting when I become the target of his projections.
What can I do to help with this? What words can I use and still let him feel safe?
Thanks. 
The funny thing is that I started coming here to read posts when I started Alanon on April 1, 2010. Friday was my one year anniversary in Alanon. March 9th was my qualifier's 6 month sober birthday! He is 55 and this is not his first time sober. Last time was over 10 yrs. ago.
He is doing so much internal work and some work on how he reacts/acts with me and others. Due to the relative calm, when things get heated I can be more clear. I have noticed a pattern that I need some help with. I know this is not uncommon, but I need insight.
When he does something that he feels guilt for...it quickly turns to shame and then blame. Ex: He said something about my personality, which was an opinion, and I respectfully disagreed but said his opinion is his and therefor valid and I could not argue with it. He was concerned he hurt my feelings. Within 5 minutes he was frustrated over a dirty pot on the stove and brought up things from 2 years ago and just went off about it all. I did not engage. He calmed down on his own.
This pattern of a guilty action then nearly immediate anger at me for petty things(disproportionate anger)
seems to happen every time he feels he has let me down or disappointed himself. This was true when he was still drinking, but as I said it is clearer now.The other day his words after realizing he did something wrong that had a consequence led to him going through a list of what he did, what he could have done different and then rationalizing. It was like listening to both sides of a disagreement. It is almost as if he expects the anger and disappointment from me and when I don't go there with him he does not know what to do. It breaks my heart to see him doing this to himself and it is upsetting when I become the target of his projections.
What can I do to help with this? What words can I use and still let him feel safe?
Thanks. 
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Reassurance=safe. And you don't have to go overboard on it. Just calmly offer a few choice words of reassurance.
Sounds like you both are working hard on yourselves. Good for you!
And welcome to SR!
~T
Sounds like you both are working hard on yourselves. Good for you!
And welcome to SR!
~T
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I always liked this story.
Two Buddhist monks were walking along when they came to a fast-moving stream. There was a woman trying to figure out how to cross it. The older monk bent down and offered to carry her across, which she gratefully accepted.
The two monks continued to walk on their journey for two days, with the younger one in tight-lipped silence. Finally he could hold it in no longer, and he exploded. "We are not supposed to have physical contact with women. You have broken your vow! I look to you to be an example--how could you DO such a thing?!"
The older monk shook his head and said, "I put that woman down two days ago. It is you who have been carrying her all this time."
Tell him the story--maybe it will make him smile. Some things just need to be let go.
Two Buddhist monks were walking along when they came to a fast-moving stream. There was a woman trying to figure out how to cross it. The older monk bent down and offered to carry her across, which she gratefully accepted.
The two monks continued to walk on their journey for two days, with the younger one in tight-lipped silence. Finally he could hold it in no longer, and he exploded. "We are not supposed to have physical contact with women. You have broken your vow! I look to you to be an example--how could you DO such a thing?!"
The older monk shook his head and said, "I put that woman down two days ago. It is you who have been carrying her all this time."
Tell him the story--maybe it will make him smile. Some things just need to be let go.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
You are not his therapist. You are not his sponsor. You are not his counselor.
Anytime he starts on one of his "going through a list of what he did, what he could have done different and then rationalizing." it would be best for you to respond with:
"This is something you need to talk about with therapist/sponsor/counselor, and I am not him/her."
It took me a while to learn that for a continuing relationship with an A in my life, it was for the best that I stay out of their program and they stay out of mine. In time that always helped the relationship more than anything else.
Also, your AlAnon sponsor can be great face to face support in helping you to 'deal' with someone in still what is considered 'early recovery.'
J M H O
Also, definitely please continue to come here, post and let us know how YOU are doing as we do care very much.
Love and hugs,
Anytime he starts on one of his "going through a list of what he did, what he could have done different and then rationalizing." it would be best for you to respond with:
"This is something you need to talk about with therapist/sponsor/counselor, and I am not him/her."
It took me a while to learn that for a continuing relationship with an A in my life, it was for the best that I stay out of their program and they stay out of mine. In time that always helped the relationship more than anything else.
Also, your AlAnon sponsor can be great face to face support in helping you to 'deal' with someone in still what is considered 'early recovery.'
J M H O
Also, definitely please continue to come here, post and let us know how YOU are doing as we do care very much.
Love and hugs,
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2
Hi Laurie...
I appreciate your words, as they are useful in a general sense as a partner to a recovering A. How he deals with the guilt and shame inside himself is not my job to fix. That runs deeper than even he is conscious of. How supportive I am as a partner IS mine to fix. This is not about "his program".
Even before Alanon my response was silence and or removing myself once he turns to blame/anger. I will continue to do so. However, at this point, WE are doing work on ourselves separately AND simultaneously on our relationship and how we interact together. We are on this path together although each of us are in control of our own pace and footsteps.
I am looking for gentle ways to be more loving and as supportive as I can in letting him know I am not judging him, before he spirals into shame and blame. Not in the moment, but once he is past that mini crisis. It seems to be part of an increasingly healthy relationship to show each other compassion without fixing or judging.
The story of the monks is wonderful. It's the type of thing he would respond to.
Thanks for the support and welcome.
I appreciate your words, as they are useful in a general sense as a partner to a recovering A. How he deals with the guilt and shame inside himself is not my job to fix. That runs deeper than even he is conscious of. How supportive I am as a partner IS mine to fix. This is not about "his program".
Even before Alanon my response was silence and or removing myself once he turns to blame/anger. I will continue to do so. However, at this point, WE are doing work on ourselves separately AND simultaneously on our relationship and how we interact together. We are on this path together although each of us are in control of our own pace and footsteps.
I am looking for gentle ways to be more loving and as supportive as I can in letting him know I am not judging him, before he spirals into shame and blame. Not in the moment, but once he is past that mini crisis. It seems to be part of an increasingly healthy relationship to show each other compassion without fixing or judging.
The story of the monks is wonderful. It's the type of thing he would respond to.
Thanks for the support and welcome.
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