Attack of the Codependent!!!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Island of Misfit Toys
Posts: 102
Attack of the Codependent!!!
I don't know how to put this, but I have this friend who seems overly involved in my well being. I can't tell if I'm just being paranoid... so let me explain and maybe your thoughts will help.
She's a girl I met online, we've been friends since November. I met her on a dating website and really got to like her as a friend but she isn't my type. So I told her this and we remained friends because her and I both agreed that we have fun together, she likes to talk a lot and I do too and I like her because she isn't a drinker or smoker. She'll have a few casually (more like one actually) if the occasion arises, but it was a welcome change from my other friends.
So the problem is that I know she likes me. She spends money on me like there is no tomorrow and often brings me flowers that I know are expensive. Also, sometimes she offers to make me a drink or offers to have a shot when she knows that I had said that I have given that up. If I do have one, she does the "one of the guys" thing and says either I didn't fill the glass all the way, or I didn't do the whole thing and I tell her that is my point, not to do it, you know.
A little note about her ex's, she was in one relationship with a girl who was bipolar and an alcoholic, this girl ended up stealing a large sum of money from work because she had access. Girl X (my friend) ended up telling her boss that she had done it and went to jail for her bipolar GF. She was in this crazy and sometimes physically abusive relationship for something like 8 years. Then she met a woman online and had a long distance relationship with her, they never met in person, everytime Girl X wanted to meet this one, she made an excuse, so after 2 years of this, Girl X left the long distance relationship. This long distance woman was in NA and had all of her teeth replaced because of meth. When Girl X met me and cut ties off completely with the long distance woman, the long distance woman told Girl X she had relapsed, that her daughter was addicted, on and on to suck Girl X back in. Girl X was upset by this and told me she was ignoring the contact, which was by phone, text and email.
So last week I told Girl X that i had tried cocaine for the first time, hated it, had massive problems afterward, etc... she told me I was an a-hole for doing it, but looked overly concerned, spent the night at my house and actually tried to start a few unrelated petty arguments with me. The next day she came over with a dozen roses. I asked if I'd get flowers every time I did something stupid, she said "Not every time..." It just felt odd and the next day we talked on the phone and she offered to cook me dinner and I told her I had plans to hang out with another friend and that I didn't think we were going to see each other again. I always tell her not to get too up in my junk and she backs off. So yesterday she came over because we had plans to go out and she was real tired, said she'd had bad dreams and didn't feel well. She also suggested later that we drink and I get this creepy feeling that she secretly likes it when I drink.
So we had drinks and dinner at home, she wanted to crash out, I let her sleep in my bed if she minds herself, which I need to stop doing and in the middle of the night I did tell her to go on the couch because she snores. Then in the morning, while I'm still sleeping she climbs back into bed and I tell her that I'm sleeping, she says "I know". And she's just laying there, now I'm awake and I know she's not sleeping because there's no snoring... so what is she doing? Laying there to watch me sleep? Does anyone else think this is creepy. Then she gets out of bed, I go to the bathroom and she says she's going to leave, I tell her ok. I go to check my computer because I'm supposed to meet a friend for lunch and I tell her I have to call this person. She looks at me and asks all concerned "what's wrong?" I tell her I just woke up, snapping a little while thinking the "stay out of my junk already!" bit that I have told her before. I got the feeling that she was fetching for me to be upset that she was going?
She just tries to overly take care of things, spends too much money and won't let me pay for anything when I offer. She's different around my friends and all of them have called her "dominant". She's called my friends out on things, like being drunk in my house, and that's nice and all, but I am perfectly capable of telling them that myself. She also storms out of the room if anyone lights a bud, but if it's just her and I she says she doesn't mind if I do it around her??? She also got pissed off because I had like 2 drags off a friend's cigarette so she had to turn it into some kind of contest because I told her that it's fine, so then she asks my friend for a drag and acts all macho while talking a puff.
But then there is her "niceness" when she seems perfectly normal, a good friend to talk with and a dependable sober person. I don't believe it because I feel prayed on somehow, and that's why I don't know if I'm just paranoid. She's got a right not to like my friends if they're jerks, which some I have stopped talking with because they ARE bad for me, but I get the feeling that she could find a flaw with everyone I know.
I feel like I need to hash this out with her, but I can't stand the conversations that end up making me feel like I'm married to this girl. I told her before that we don't know each other all that well and that there are things I can't trust yet, this makes her really mad. As does a comment I made one time about her being in the customer service industry, and that all the cordiality, fake smiles and complimenting service that they teach you could make a person a very good manipulator. I have worked in a hotel myself, front desk, and I know this, she took extreme offense. I mean people can use money, especially money and kindness to fool people they want to get something out of... I think simply she's trying to manipulate me into dating her by capitalizing on some of my insecurities.
Ok, that's enough, any thoughts? Help!!!
She's a girl I met online, we've been friends since November. I met her on a dating website and really got to like her as a friend but she isn't my type. So I told her this and we remained friends because her and I both agreed that we have fun together, she likes to talk a lot and I do too and I like her because she isn't a drinker or smoker. She'll have a few casually (more like one actually) if the occasion arises, but it was a welcome change from my other friends.
So the problem is that I know she likes me. She spends money on me like there is no tomorrow and often brings me flowers that I know are expensive. Also, sometimes she offers to make me a drink or offers to have a shot when she knows that I had said that I have given that up. If I do have one, she does the "one of the guys" thing and says either I didn't fill the glass all the way, or I didn't do the whole thing and I tell her that is my point, not to do it, you know.
A little note about her ex's, she was in one relationship with a girl who was bipolar and an alcoholic, this girl ended up stealing a large sum of money from work because she had access. Girl X (my friend) ended up telling her boss that she had done it and went to jail for her bipolar GF. She was in this crazy and sometimes physically abusive relationship for something like 8 years. Then she met a woman online and had a long distance relationship with her, they never met in person, everytime Girl X wanted to meet this one, she made an excuse, so after 2 years of this, Girl X left the long distance relationship. This long distance woman was in NA and had all of her teeth replaced because of meth. When Girl X met me and cut ties off completely with the long distance woman, the long distance woman told Girl X she had relapsed, that her daughter was addicted, on and on to suck Girl X back in. Girl X was upset by this and told me she was ignoring the contact, which was by phone, text and email.
So last week I told Girl X that i had tried cocaine for the first time, hated it, had massive problems afterward, etc... she told me I was an a-hole for doing it, but looked overly concerned, spent the night at my house and actually tried to start a few unrelated petty arguments with me. The next day she came over with a dozen roses. I asked if I'd get flowers every time I did something stupid, she said "Not every time..." It just felt odd and the next day we talked on the phone and she offered to cook me dinner and I told her I had plans to hang out with another friend and that I didn't think we were going to see each other again. I always tell her not to get too up in my junk and she backs off. So yesterday she came over because we had plans to go out and she was real tired, said she'd had bad dreams and didn't feel well. She also suggested later that we drink and I get this creepy feeling that she secretly likes it when I drink.
So we had drinks and dinner at home, she wanted to crash out, I let her sleep in my bed if she minds herself, which I need to stop doing and in the middle of the night I did tell her to go on the couch because she snores. Then in the morning, while I'm still sleeping she climbs back into bed and I tell her that I'm sleeping, she says "I know". And she's just laying there, now I'm awake and I know she's not sleeping because there's no snoring... so what is she doing? Laying there to watch me sleep? Does anyone else think this is creepy. Then she gets out of bed, I go to the bathroom and she says she's going to leave, I tell her ok. I go to check my computer because I'm supposed to meet a friend for lunch and I tell her I have to call this person. She looks at me and asks all concerned "what's wrong?" I tell her I just woke up, snapping a little while thinking the "stay out of my junk already!" bit that I have told her before. I got the feeling that she was fetching for me to be upset that she was going?
She just tries to overly take care of things, spends too much money and won't let me pay for anything when I offer. She's different around my friends and all of them have called her "dominant". She's called my friends out on things, like being drunk in my house, and that's nice and all, but I am perfectly capable of telling them that myself. She also storms out of the room if anyone lights a bud, but if it's just her and I she says she doesn't mind if I do it around her??? She also got pissed off because I had like 2 drags off a friend's cigarette so she had to turn it into some kind of contest because I told her that it's fine, so then she asks my friend for a drag and acts all macho while talking a puff.
But then there is her "niceness" when she seems perfectly normal, a good friend to talk with and a dependable sober person. I don't believe it because I feel prayed on somehow, and that's why I don't know if I'm just paranoid. She's got a right not to like my friends if they're jerks, which some I have stopped talking with because they ARE bad for me, but I get the feeling that she could find a flaw with everyone I know.
I feel like I need to hash this out with her, but I can't stand the conversations that end up making me feel like I'm married to this girl. I told her before that we don't know each other all that well and that there are things I can't trust yet, this makes her really mad. As does a comment I made one time about her being in the customer service industry, and that all the cordiality, fake smiles and complimenting service that they teach you could make a person a very good manipulator. I have worked in a hotel myself, front desk, and I know this, she took extreme offense. I mean people can use money, especially money and kindness to fool people they want to get something out of... I think simply she's trying to manipulate me into dating her by capitalizing on some of my insecurities.
Ok, that's enough, any thoughts? Help!!!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Island of Misfit Toys
Posts: 102
Hi Lexie, I understand what you're saying, I think, even though it seems abrasively short, vague and harsh. I HAVE told her to "stop getting all up in my junk!"
What exactly would you recommend I do with this person, short of cutting them off completely?
...which I have done to almost EVERY other person I know already. It's not that cut and dry.
Thanks.
What exactly would you recommend I do with this person, short of cutting them off completely?
...which I have done to almost EVERY other person I know already. It's not that cut and dry.
Thanks.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
It wasn't meant to be harsh, it was just what popped into my head.
Frankly, I WOULD cut her off completely. If you don't feel you can even keep her out of your bed if you have contact with her, then it's probably best for both of you if you just cut ties. You've only known her since November, so it's not like you're lifelong friends.
She is manipulating you, invading your space, and threatening your attempts to get sober. From where I sit, it sounds like a pretty simple decision.
Frankly, I WOULD cut her off completely. If you don't feel you can even keep her out of your bed if you have contact with her, then it's probably best for both of you if you just cut ties. You've only known her since November, so it's not like you're lifelong friends.
She is manipulating you, invading your space, and threatening your attempts to get sober. From where I sit, it sounds like a pretty simple decision.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Island of Misfit Toys
Posts: 102
Hey Lexie,
That was my question... basically I can't tell if I am being manipulated or worrying too much. In the past, and I'm sure this is true for a lot of people here, when you meet someone who is sober, you kinda just assume they're better than someone you know who has a problem with drugs or alcohol.
When she and I befriended, I liked mostly that she didn't drink heavily, she seems to have no problem with alcohol. We went out during the day and did things like museums and outdoor stuff that had nothing to do with drinking- of course I liked that a real lot. Many times I have sat home bored all day and then gone out late, had drinks, just because that was the only time when my friends were around....
It's just a lot harder because I value the time we spend doing the "normal" stuff and I don't want to lose all that because she's trying to get with me. I sense being manipulated, I definitely feel like my space is being invaded. I'm just an open person, like when my brother came to town last week I was the only person in the family willing to put him up overnights for his trip. He's done nothing wrong, he's sober, has a wife and 2 kids, a military career... I'm the open door, he appreciated it, it's hard for me to draw lines in the sand when someone isn't doing anything wrong. In a sense she is doing something wrong because I don't want her in my bed; it's not platonic to her. I think she and I really need to talk even if it sucks for me.
Thanks for expanding on your thoughts Lexie, it helps.
That was my question... basically I can't tell if I am being manipulated or worrying too much. In the past, and I'm sure this is true for a lot of people here, when you meet someone who is sober, you kinda just assume they're better than someone you know who has a problem with drugs or alcohol.
When she and I befriended, I liked mostly that she didn't drink heavily, she seems to have no problem with alcohol. We went out during the day and did things like museums and outdoor stuff that had nothing to do with drinking- of course I liked that a real lot. Many times I have sat home bored all day and then gone out late, had drinks, just because that was the only time when my friends were around....
It's just a lot harder because I value the time we spend doing the "normal" stuff and I don't want to lose all that because she's trying to get with me. I sense being manipulated, I definitely feel like my space is being invaded. I'm just an open person, like when my brother came to town last week I was the only person in the family willing to put him up overnights for his trip. He's done nothing wrong, he's sober, has a wife and 2 kids, a military career... I'm the open door, he appreciated it, it's hard for me to draw lines in the sand when someone isn't doing anything wrong. In a sense she is doing something wrong because I don't want her in my bed; it's not platonic to her. I think she and I really need to talk even if it sucks for me.
Thanks for expanding on your thoughts Lexie, it helps.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
OK, but here's the thing. She is the "whole package" deal. You can't enjoy the fun, casual outings without the manipulations and space invasion. If you hang with her, you get the whole combo plate, not the a la carte. You can't pick and choose which characteristics you will spend time with.
You can find other friends to do fun things with, trust me. People who will only want a friend and not to get involved with you beyond that.
Try joining some organization or doing some volunteer work or something, and you will probably find friends. AA and NA are also good places to make friendships based on trust and mutual respect.
I'm serious about the boundaries. Without them people can walk all over us.
You can find other friends to do fun things with, trust me. People who will only want a friend and not to get involved with you beyond that.
Try joining some organization or doing some volunteer work or something, and you will probably find friends. AA and NA are also good places to make friendships based on trust and mutual respect.
I'm serious about the boundaries. Without them people can walk all over us.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 65
I have sort of the same reaction to someone "invading my space" that I have when I drink heavily...my body/mind says WARNING WARNING, REJECT IMMEDIATELY. There is a reason for this...it's dangerous to my physical and emotional health. It sounds like she's trying to weasel her way in to date you. If I was in this situation and didn't want to date this person, I would put a stop to it...whether by coming right out and being direct or, if I wasn't comfortable with that, I'd take the indirect approach...don't answer her calls, be "busy," etc. Some people can't take hints, so even if you take the indirect approach at first, it might not work and you still may have to tell her directly. If you do want her in your life, it's a different story, of course. But I agree with others who have said you don't need someone around who is encouraging you to drink.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sober Recovery
Posts: 233
Sorry I have nothing to say that everyone else already has not but...
I enjoyed the Mexican dish symbolism LexieCat. Very creative
(I know a la carte is French, but I can't help but think of Mexican food.)
Best of luck to you Presstoe!
I enjoyed the Mexican dish symbolism LexieCat. Very creative
(I know a la carte is French, but I can't help but think of Mexican food.)Best of luck to you Presstoe!
Guest
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 245
I think you need to completely disassociate from her. You need to be around people who are looking out for your best interests all of the time. There are LOTS of people like her in the world, and you have no obligation to be friends with them. I feel your pain, I've been in your situation many times in the past and it is almost always tough to let a friend go, even if they have been bad for you. But I think you are better of without her!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Island of Misfit Toys
Posts: 102
Hey guys, thanks for the tips.
I'm really glad that you elaborated Lexie, and I'm sorry that I was caught off guard and defensive about your first statement. I'm just bent out of shape about this girl and looking for advice, I wasn't finding it, etc... I'm just a super open trusting person, and yes, my boundaries blur all the time. Sometimes it's not a bad thing, I think it's part of being creative in your friendships. I've let a few friends use my place as a crash pad when they were coming to town or just for an escape and it was really fun. But they weren't jumping in my bed or anything- just hangin' out, watching movies and being gracious, nothing better than help with the dishes!
I want to talk to her about it. I've had guy friends do the same thing and eventually they get the hint. What creeps me out the most is the amount of money she's willing to spend. Like for my b-day she wanted to take me to see the Monkees and get special passes and stuff so I could meet them. She was going to make it a surprise, but then I mentioned another friend talking about going and she blurted it out. She said that we could all go together. I wanna talk to her. Do you think she's a psycho? That's what I'm afraid of, if she's crazy...
I'm really glad that you elaborated Lexie, and I'm sorry that I was caught off guard and defensive about your first statement. I'm just bent out of shape about this girl and looking for advice, I wasn't finding it, etc... I'm just a super open trusting person, and yes, my boundaries blur all the time. Sometimes it's not a bad thing, I think it's part of being creative in your friendships. I've let a few friends use my place as a crash pad when they were coming to town or just for an escape and it was really fun. But they weren't jumping in my bed or anything- just hangin' out, watching movies and being gracious, nothing better than help with the dishes!
I want to talk to her about it. I've had guy friends do the same thing and eventually they get the hint. What creeps me out the most is the amount of money she's willing to spend. Like for my b-day she wanted to take me to see the Monkees and get special passes and stuff so I could meet them. She was going to make it a surprise, but then I mentioned another friend talking about going and she blurted it out. She said that we could all go together. I wanna talk to her. Do you think she's a psycho? That's what I'm afraid of, if she's crazy...
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Well, I don't know that she's "dangerous" psycho, in the sense that she would threaten your physical safety, but she sounds rather obsessed and somewhat stalker-ish.
It really doesn't sound like you are comfortable with her around, and life is to short to spend it with people who are making you nervous and creeping you out, ya know?
AND there's the bit about your sobriety. My own suggestion is that you cut her loose. If you want to be "kind" about it, just tell her that you have to get really focused on your recovery work, and that you feel that having a really close relationship with anyone not directly involved in that is not good for you at this time.
My next suggestion is that you actually DO the said focusing on your recovery.
It really doesn't sound like you are comfortable with her around, and life is to short to spend it with people who are making you nervous and creeping you out, ya know?
AND there's the bit about your sobriety. My own suggestion is that you cut her loose. If you want to be "kind" about it, just tell her that you have to get really focused on your recovery work, and that you feel that having a really close relationship with anyone not directly involved in that is not good for you at this time.
My next suggestion is that you actually DO the said focusing on your recovery.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: at the beach
Posts: 339
Presstoe
thank you for trusting us with your troubles and sorry to hear about your "new friend". i agree with other posts. if it doesn't feel right, don't do it. usually if you have to second guess yourself, your first gut feeling is right.
also, i can understand that you do enjoy some of the activities with her. i personally don't have many friends and have sometimes compromised my better judgment in order to stay friends w/ them. and in the long run, it wasn't worth it. some of them were only in it for themselves and as soon as i didn't give them what they wanted they showed their true nature.
there are plenty of people out there who enjoy the outdoors, don't drink, and are actually also looking for friends. don't get discouraged by the fact that you might have not made the best choices in the past. just because some people don't have problems w/ alcohol doesn't mean they are any better than you, and trust me many are much worse.
i would try having some time apart from her (if possible) and see how that feels. if you actually feel better, then you have your answer. also it would also help to try to make some more friends, so you don't end up lonely and have to resort to her kind of "friendship".
i don't mean to be preaching to you. i just wanted to extend my encouragement. i hope i helped a little bit.
good luck to you and good job staying committed to your recovery.
thank you for trusting us with your troubles and sorry to hear about your "new friend". i agree with other posts. if it doesn't feel right, don't do it. usually if you have to second guess yourself, your first gut feeling is right.
also, i can understand that you do enjoy some of the activities with her. i personally don't have many friends and have sometimes compromised my better judgment in order to stay friends w/ them. and in the long run, it wasn't worth it. some of them were only in it for themselves and as soon as i didn't give them what they wanted they showed their true nature.
there are plenty of people out there who enjoy the outdoors, don't drink, and are actually also looking for friends. don't get discouraged by the fact that you might have not made the best choices in the past. just because some people don't have problems w/ alcohol doesn't mean they are any better than you, and trust me many are much worse.
i would try having some time apart from her (if possible) and see how that feels. if you actually feel better, then you have your answer. also it would also help to try to make some more friends, so you don't end up lonely and have to resort to her kind of "friendship".
i don't mean to be preaching to you. i just wanted to extend my encouragement. i hope i helped a little bit.
good luck to you and good job staying committed to your recovery.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 40
Some people want a "victim" to "mother". She is enabling you in order to look after you, I have been there. If the voice in your head gives you doubts, listen to them. Some people are born enablers because they have this need to "take care of you".
Sorry about all the "'s I swear I don't do the two finger in the air quote things, that drives me nuts.
Bottom line, she sounds like she is hindering and not helping you at this point.
Sorry about all the "'s I swear I don't do the two finger in the air quote things, that drives me nuts.
Bottom line, she sounds like she is hindering and not helping you at this point.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Island of Misfit Toys
Posts: 102
If any of you are out there, those who commented here...
The word is out, actually about 2 weeks ago I cut her loose. The scoop in short was I went thru the gauntlet of reconciling some serious issues with my dad and then got drunk with a buddy. We didn't go anywhere or do anything stupid, I cried on the phone with my dad, broke down after and drank with a friend- honestly to which I have no regrets because it was a huge emotional thing.
Anyway, nothing I want to relive or harp on, but she shows up the next morning, my male friend had slept on the couch and get this.... she comes over to my place to meet, walks in and says, "Oh, you let him use my pillow!?" right in front of him! Any lack of self control would have lead me to say "YOUR pillow b-witch!!!??? NO, this is my house and it's my F-ing pillow!!!!"
After he left (which was inevitable considering the way she was acting) she laid into me with, "So every time something bad happens in your life you're going to get hammered with douchebags?" WOW- but, yes, when she wants to drink it's ok??? OH and she knows so much about the difficulty between me and my dad, not to mention that said "douchebag" is actually a good friend and came over because I was crying on the phone when he called, you know the "douche" that doesn't try to control me or insist that dating be a requirement for friendship... AAARGGGHHH
You get the gist, I'm so done with it I don't even want to bother with the details. Yeah, she was playing mommy to the victim and all of everything you said. I AM happier without it and miraculously drinking less. Not to mention facing a problem with my dad and we have plans to meet when he's in town. Things were always rocky and worse since mom passed. One day at a time, I think I get that!
Peace- and thank you all for your posts and advice, you were right! Take care and hugs all around!!!!
The word is out, actually about 2 weeks ago I cut her loose. The scoop in short was I went thru the gauntlet of reconciling some serious issues with my dad and then got drunk with a buddy. We didn't go anywhere or do anything stupid, I cried on the phone with my dad, broke down after and drank with a friend- honestly to which I have no regrets because it was a huge emotional thing.
Anyway, nothing I want to relive or harp on, but she shows up the next morning, my male friend had slept on the couch and get this.... she comes over to my place to meet, walks in and says, "Oh, you let him use my pillow!?" right in front of him! Any lack of self control would have lead me to say "YOUR pillow b-witch!!!??? NO, this is my house and it's my F-ing pillow!!!!"
After he left (which was inevitable considering the way she was acting) she laid into me with, "So every time something bad happens in your life you're going to get hammered with douchebags?" WOW- but, yes, when she wants to drink it's ok??? OH and she knows so much about the difficulty between me and my dad, not to mention that said "douchebag" is actually a good friend and came over because I was crying on the phone when he called, you know the "douche" that doesn't try to control me or insist that dating be a requirement for friendship... AAARGGGHHH
You get the gist, I'm so done with it I don't even want to bother with the details. Yeah, she was playing mommy to the victim and all of everything you said. I AM happier without it and miraculously drinking less. Not to mention facing a problem with my dad and we have plans to meet when he's in town. Things were always rocky and worse since mom passed. One day at a time, I think I get that!
Peace- and thank you all for your posts and advice, you were right! Take care and hugs all around!!!!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Island of Misfit Toys
Posts: 102
This girl and I crossed paths again and I'm reinforced by reading this to not get involved again. Thanks for your comments and the discussion that I got to look back on to understand myself and that friendship better!
Thank you!
Thank you!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 173
She gives you mixed messages, knocking you off center doesnt honor your request for boundaries, hard to "define" the relationship because she keeps trying to move the line that you draw (very lightly). Sounds controlling on her part but you seem unclear too - so, match ups like this happen. A therapist once told me, " some people you let on your porch, some you invite into the living room and very few you invite into the bedroom" - Literally as well as metaphorically.That is what boundaries are. Replace unhealthy relationships with healthier...The healthier you get the more you will attract healthy people. Good luck! Glad to have you here!
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
