Inafishbowl

I just feel like I need to throw this out there. It came to me because of former experiences with AA'ers before I actually started going myself. And I don't intend to offend anyone. But as a newcomer, I'd like to speak to all of you oldtimers out there. AA has been such a blessing to me. I really love it. BUT, please do not forget that helping people should be more about attraction rather than promotion.
When some people come here (and I had the same concerns) there often are a lot of misconceptions about AA. I have to say from my own experience that those prejudices are often derived from real experience with AA evangelists who are far too "my way or the highway" and pushy or in general have that "born again" quality which can be really annoying to people like me.

The people in AA who really have what I want are the quiet humble ones who have that happiness and glow about them. There is a paradox here because the only way to experience these people is to actually take a seat. So encouraging people to take a seat in a meeting is great. Going on and on about how lifechanging it all has been for you......probably notsomuch. If you really want to help ANY alcoholic who is still suffering, I don't think this point can be stressed enough.

LaFemme

I have heard it in church...the best way to convert someone is by living a good life

Stevie1

Awesome post, Ina.

To distill it - show, don't tell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Show,_don%27t_tell

In a nutshell - telling stories about what you've acheived and how you aceived it don't have nearly as much impact. Too often our egos get in the way and we want to "tell" instead of "show."

In past years I have had close, extended contact with very evangelical AA'ers - one was a client, one an employee. I found it really, really off-putting.

1_day@_a_time

I can appreciate your post, I have been guilty myself.

I have made a point of backing waaaay off.

It's quite troubling to see literally hundreds if not thousands come here in the last 8 yrs suffer, struggle and relapse over and over. Then there are those that die too......sr people. (this also happens in the rooms of AA too I admit, mostly due to being stubborn and defiant)

Any day, log in and read the title of the threads.

Since I tried to sober up, and more importantly recover without any type of program and fail for decades, it is not easy to see people here suggest AA is not necessary. For my life it is very necessary.

What helped me SO much is discounted by some.

The dividing lines here are not good.

I have had several people PM me and take issue/admonish me when they are just as guilty of this lack of balance.

Bottom line is, I will not enter into any such debate or push is anymore.

BTW, this site was not like this years ago......and the non AAers, it feels to me, are just as guilty from my viewpoint.

I believe WE CAN ALL LEARN FROM THIS POST !

Dee74

I've been here nearly 4 years now. To my eyes, the site hasn't changed much in that time - certainly not for the worse .

We're an internet forum - you're going to find people you agree with, and people you don't, and people who you like, and people who annoy the heck out of you.

We have all kinds of members here - from the lonest of lone wolves to the thumpingest Big Booker...I can, and do, learn something from all of them.

If someone really pushes your buttons, I recommend the ignore function

D

Anna

I LOVE SR.

I have been here for more than 8 years and, if anything, the site is better now than it was then. I have seen many people come and go, and I have learned from each one. I LOVE that people have different approaches to recovery. I LOVE that we see people struggle and yet continue to work on recovery because of the support system they find here. I cannot say enough good things about this website and what a blessing it has been for me in my recovery. And, I know that many people feel the same way. I feel extremely privileged to have been a Moderator here for many years, and it is truly a blessing in my life that I have met some amazingly wonderful people here.

Stevie1

If something has worked - really worked, long term - for an individual, it's completely natural to be quite emphatic about it! In any area of life, not just AA. I have been guilty as well, it's something I really have to watch with myself because I'm naturally bossy LOL.

I've also spent many years (and classes) in volunteer counseling where the emphasis is on empowering and respecting others' decisions. Even if they are really, really bad decisions by any measure - people should be given the respect to to take their own path in life...and in the type of counseling I've done, giving unsolicited advice and opinions is not at all useful - in fact it's usually counter-productive. And, as pointed out, it does not create bonding or closeness.

Really, in my limited time in AA, giving advice and being evangelical is counter to the AA principle, isn't it? AA folks are supposed to support and share, not dictate and advise.

Anyway back to Ina's main point, as I see it....leaving your ego at the door and being empathic and welcoming is probably a much better path to show newbies than being...well, pushy. No matter whether it's AA or SMART or will power and exercise or whatever...what works for you may not work at all for someone else.

Hollyanne

I just wish people would realize once and for all, that I am always right!
Jeeze!

LexieCat

"Attraction, not promotion" refers to AA itself, not to individual members. We're SUPPOSED to carry the message to the alcoholic who is still suffering.

Now, that doesn't mean we proclaim to one and all that AA is the only way to get sober and stay that way (though it HAS been known to work for those people for whom nothing else did). And it CERTAINLY doesn't mean trying to convince someone who is happily sober that they are doing it "wrong".

I think it's a shame when people are afraid to set foot in the rooms because of misconceptions or misinformation. There's a lot of it out there. I usually encourage people who are "on the fence" to give it a try and judge for themselves. I've never heard of that hurting anyone.

The doors are open, the fellowship is warm, the recovery is great, and the coffee is so-so.

ReadyAndAble

I've gained great insights from every category on SR—AAers, non-AAers, oldtimers, newbies, pushy know-it-alls, humble self-doubters, blondes, brunettes, and, in Dee's case, even a Muppet.

I'd be crazy to use SR's ignore function. Besides, if a post really bugs me, I can use the ignore function in my brain.

keithj

Actually, it refers to AA's public relations policy, usually in press, radio and films. That Tradition has nothing to do with sharing the solution we have found to someone who is seeking a solution.

However, Chapter 7 also says we should encourage someone to go for it if they think they can beat the game some other way. AA has no animosity towards someone who is sober by some other method or philosophy.

reggiewayne

Good topic. I am an AA'er and a salesman by profession (terrible mix - I know lol)... I know that is the modo of the program, I also know that if it were pushed on me early on I would have probably rejected it, but it's hard to stay "moderate" when the program has literally saved my life.

I try so hard not to push it too hard. I don't know if I'm successful at that or not, probably depends on who you ask. It's just hard when you see someone post something that I remember going through. I remember the hopelessness and the misery and then I find the solution.

It's hard for me to be like, "Well, you could go to a counselor, orrrrrrrrrrrr, ahhhhhh, oh I don't know, try some soul searching, orrrrrrrrrrr, ahhhhh, well let's see, oh yeah, HOW ABOUT DOING WHAT I DID AND THAT SAVED MY LIFE AA!!!! lol...

It's kind of like giving your child a bunch bunch of different options and praying he chooses the one that you think will be the best one.

Your point is well taken. If I ever come off as a blow hard, PM me and let me know. I promise I won't be offended. Great post!!!!

Aysha

Well, I know one thing, Dee has been really promoting that ignore button lately. LOL

If it wasnt for SR..I would have never made any lasting connections to anyone in recovery.
This is my only constant in my addiction and my recovery.
I can only say that about one other thing, And thats my family.
I have gotten alot from everyone. Mostly from the ones that I dont agree with.
Isnt that somnething?
But everyone is different.
But for me, I learned a long time ago the hard way.
I usually go by someones actions. They can talk all day and do something different.
Walking the walk isnt as easy as talking the talk.

CarolD

I've been useing SR as my cyber recovery home group for almost
9 years....and watching it grow and become a strong voice for
recovery gives me purpose and joy...

Thank you my fellow SR members for joining us on this marvelous
journey of discovery and healthy positive living....

March7

I have been AA- resistant for a long time and am just now giving it a real try. The evangelical/ preachy aspect of some members is one of the factors that drove me away last year. But now I'm looking at it like the lesser of 2 evils- if it can help me, but I have to deal with some people I don't care for, then great. Still better than screwing up my own life with my addiction.
I've done a little research on some of the Other recovery programs, and I like the idea of some of them better, but the main draw of AA for me right now is that it is immediately available, there are meetings pretty much anytime I want to go, and there are a lot of people in it. When I looked online for an SOS group, there was one about 30 miles away that meets once a week. That's just not enough for me right now. And SR is soooo great, but also not enough by itself, for me anyway.

Inafishbowl

I just want to say (especially Reggie and Mark), I was not referring to anybody here on SR. It's just something I have experienced in "real life" and many times the resistance that newcomers have is legitimate. I just thought it would be a good thing to put out there so that some might keep it in mind at meetings or more importantly, speaking with drinkers outside of the rooms.
I do understand the passion. I myself, am feeling it. I only singled out AA because it is something I love. I hate the idea that someone might never come back because of a bad first impression...someone who otherwise would come to love AA.
I agree also that this is not exclusive to AA. It applies to other recovery programs and also the everyday stuff...religion, politics or your favorite multi-level marketing product (don't get me started on that).
I am guilty of doing this with Yoga. I love it so much and it has in many ways, changed my life. In fact, I am certain I would not be able to face working the 12 steps without it. I tend to push it onto everyone. I'm trying not to do that anymore.
I'm still new and can't really quote page for page the BB, but I do know that it goes into great detail as to how recovered alcoholics should be approaching active alcoholics. It seems pretty clear, attraction vs. promotion to me.

sailorjohn

Which raises the obvious question. How do you attract people to the program of AA?

The program of AA being the 12 steps.

Those old timers call that 'taking someone elses inventory'.

Generally we try to do our own 4th step first.

Which has the added benefit of helping us avoid the obvious pitfalls of taking someone elses inventory.

Maybe you should stay away from the 12 and 12 table?

Inafishbowl

In my opinion, I bring absolutely zippo at the moment. I am very new (54 days). I'm talking less and listening more. If I bring anything to the table it's reminding the oldtimers how miserable, emotional and confused they were early on in this journey. That's about it. And my post was coming from that newbie perspective.

I honestly don't know what you mean by that.

***edited to add.... I am not talking about anyone taking anyone's inventory's. I'm talking more about those who have experienced an intense spiritual awakening and push and promise their "white light" experiences. I'm talking about those whose life changed through AA insisting that there is no hope without it. In general the evangelists. Not the inventory takers.

bellakeller

Well congratulations, you just took her inventory, dude.

CarolD

Without an apology to anyone I do promote AA
on here...in person... in and out of the rooms

That does not mean I discount others who don't do AA
Neither do I want my positive experiences to be dismissed.

"Do Unto others as you wish them to do unto you"
works very well for me.....

bTW I did leave my first AA meeting at half time
not because I was confused unwelcomed or BB thumped.

I heard the speakers horrific story...I was not nearly that sick

3 years later....my alcoholism had progressed ..my brain was teetering.
Back to AA I fled....and stayed....I'm an AA recovered alcoholic.
DOS 4-25-89

Thanks for reading my share


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