JohnBarleycorn

Rational Recovery has a book - "The Art of AVRT" - which is presumably an update on the Addictive Voice Recognition Technique.

Has anyone read this book? What where your thoughts? Is it worth buying?

How does it compare to Rational's 1996 book?

- JBC

Zencat

I've read 'The Small Book' by Trimpey. I think that was published in 1992. In that book the 'BEAST' is introduced. The 'E' of the BEAST was 'enemy voice recognition'.

I read the The Small Book right after I read the Big Book wile I was in rehab. To this day I still prefer The Small Book over the The Big Book...go figure...LOL.

I would enthusiastically recommend anything published by Trimpey and RR. AVRT cuts to the core of how to recover from addiction. Google: AVRT In A Nutshell to get the condensed version of the enemy.

luckedog

VERRY GOOD INFO!!!! I recomend it to all who want more information on why we are like
we are! THANKS Zen- It helped me a great deal!!
Lots of different stuff here but like Zen said anything by Trimpery is good



Cliff Walker's 'Recovery Watch'

Creekryder

It is so refreshing to hear the words "rational" applied to recovery. I have been mostly unaware of the main premise of AVRT. After reading, it absolutely makes sense and allows the individual to be in control, not helpless. A breath of fresh air for me.

JohnBarleycorn

I've read "The Small Book" as well. I consider his 1996 book, "Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction" to be far more comprehensive in its coverage of AVRT, though.

The author does change his mind on many positions he previously took, however, relying solely on AVRT, so "The Small Book" is still good if you find Cognitive Behavioral Therapy / REBT useful.

Trimpey now considers "The Small Book" obsolete, having been superseded by "The New Cure," but SMART recovery still uses it.

In any case, I bought a copy of his new book, "The Art of AVRT" which Trimpey is saying is a comprehensive update on AVRT.

I am not sure how much he can improve on AVRT, but given the amount of additional material on it that he provided in his second (1996) book when compared to his previous, I am nevertheless curious.

It should arrive this week. I will post a review of it once I read it.

luckedog

Be sure and let us know what you think. I was just made aware of the AVRT concept.
It makes so much common sense to me it is blowing my mind that I have not heard of it before! I cant stop researching the whole "rational recovery" idea!!

Genie

I have his 2nd book. Basically, he says you make a Big Plan - that being you say/write "I will never drink again - and I will NEVER change my mind". If you never change your mind, then you will never have a problem with alcohol ever again. Use the AVRT at times when your BEAST is trying to get you to take a drink and recognize that you have the power over the beast. The beast cannot do anything unless you do it.

Trimpey doesn't have anything good to say about AA and believes that using such a system only sets the alcoholic up for relapse because one is only doing it "one day at a time" so your BEAST is always waiting for you to slip up.

If you were to talk to Trimpey he would flat out ask you..."What are your future plans for alcohol?" Most people have no idea how to answer this - they never think about it. They want to say - well for now I don't want it, but I may use sometime in the future. Trimpey would say that is your BEAST talking.

If you make the big plan to never use alcohol again and never change your mind then you are free. You don't have to go into recovery becaue you never intend to use again. He figures recovery is only for those who have plans of replasing/using again.

It does seem to make sense that if you say to yourself - that's it. No more - never even just one, then you'll never have to worry about alcohol again.

Genie

Creekryder

You and I both, Luckedog.

Zencat

I see the local library has "Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction" but not "The Art of AVRT". I think I'll checkout the "New Cure" and give it a quick read.

cabledude

I notice the ads are saying that his new book covers the Nicotine Beast and the Sex Beast. Would be curious to know if each of these new Beasts get different names assigned by the alcoholic than the original Beast, or if the new Beasts are also called by the name assigned to the old Beast. If anyone reads the stuff would you clue me in?

I love hard science like this.

Murray4x5

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. It's basically the same approach I've been using ever since I read how the limbic system changes with alcohol addiction.

Evolution has given us an amazingly complex brain, with each new structure layered upon older ones. This mid-brain idea explains how the primal, base instinct drives of the limbic system (the "lizard brain") become actual thoughts as they move towards the neocortex.

Knowing my enemy, giving it a face, and being cognizant of its primal origins has been the most important element in my staying sober. Like my signature below says; I am stronger and smarter than my alcohol altered limbic system!

Murray

JohnBarleycorn

OK, I just read "The Art of AVRT" and I am disappointed.

While the book does include instruction on AVRT, it is not really better instruction, and I think Mr. Trimpey has carried things too far this time.

The new book is also a political call to arms, and reads like a Tea Party manifesto, venturing into extremely controversial topics that have nothing whatsoever to do with addiction.

I do not recommend this new book for recovery from addiction.

That said, I still find the AVRT technique itself very insightful and extremely useful in addiction recovery.

I recommend his previous 1996 book - "Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addition" for learning AVRT.

luckedog

Thanks JBC, I had just scratched the surface on AVRT,and found it helpful. Had no clue about the political stuff, thanks for the heads-up!

cabledude

What's he say about the Sex Beast?

AnthonyV

It's out in the parking lot doing push-ups.

JohnBarleycorn

Basically, replace "drink" or "use" with whatever action you are trying to avoid that is causing you trouble. For example, if your problem is xxx material, "I will never drink again" becomes "I will never seek out xxx material again."

He includes "sexual orientation dysphoria" and "sexual identity disorders," which I suppose means gender identity disorder, as possible "problems," however, which I doubt Trimpey is qualified to know anything about.

It is obvious from the writing that he is expressing personal political beliefs.

Honestly, I would not bother, but since I don't have problems with SA, I can't really say for sure, so it is up to you.

cabledude

Thanks JB, just was curious if there was anything new, having seen the ads about the new Beasts. Think I'll keep my $ as Trimpey's political beliefs hold no interest for me (no offense to any who like them).

recycle

Somehow that does not surprise me, in the other articles on Walker's site, Trimpey seemed to have a bit of an ax to grind. (...in a Nutshell - LOL)

As far as the AVRT goes, it is not a new idea. CBT therapists call it defusion, and of course eastern wisdom traditions have been calling it 'dwelling as the witness' for a millennium or three. It is useful for lots of (legitimate) problems like panic attacks, anger, stress, etc.

Thanks for the heads up JB.

JohnBarleycorn

Trimpey always had an axe to grind, increasing more over the years, particularly with AA.

In The Small Book, it was "I have a lot of respect for AA, but for some people it is the wrong program."

Trimpey received CBT training from Albert Ellis. The Small Book was based on CBT, and RR became what SMART recovery is now. SMART used to be the RR network, until Trimpey disbanded it.

In TSB, he took CBT and simplified it a lot to apply to addiction. Albert Ellis even wrote the foreword to TSB and endorsed it. SMART recovery still uses it.

AVRT is slightly different than traditional CBT, though it is influenced by it somewhat. The beauty and genius of what Trimpey did with AVRT is that it zeroed in on the exact thinking that feeds addiction, even within meetings.

For example, if someone hears in the rooms "meeting makers make it," they might easily conclude "those who don't make meetings DON'T make it."

Then, when the day came that they didn't make a meeting for some reason, they might conclude "oh, I didn't make a meeting, and since only meeting makers make it, and everyone else does not, TIME TO DRINK !!!"

But this time, he cranks up axe-grinding *big time*, and has extended AVRT to things it is not suited for, IMO, including illegal immigration, socialism, sexual orientation, gender identity, communism, national socialism, collectivism, and even the Obama white house.

Too much, IMO.

onlythetruth

I'm with you, JohnBarleyCorn. The essential AVRT concept has a lot to offer, but with "The Art of AVRT" Trimpey has jumped the shark. In some ways his expansion of AVRT to cover everything under the sun reminds me of the mindset of an AA member who has decided that all the answers to life are to be found in the Big Book.

OTT