Lies
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Baltimore MD
Posts: 67
Lies
When I was talking to with my AH on Tuesday, I asked if he had remembered that he was court ordered by the protective order I got last Aug to an abuser intervention program. He said he contacted them, sent them the info and they didn't get back to him so "Oh well!" My stinking thinking kicked in and I immediately expressed concern they may issue a warrant or something. He told me if I was worried about it, then I could look into it. When he said that my recovery brain FINALLY kicked in and I decided it was his issue and responsibility.
I've been doing a lot of reading lately since joining Al Anon. Most of it has been CAL literature intertwined with some fiction to lighten my ever active analyzing brain. However, these last two days I started reading "Why Does He Do That: Inside the Mind of Angry & Controlling Men" and "Gaslighting." Well, today as I was reading the Angry & Controlling Men book, I thought about that conversation and called the lawyer who helped me get my protective order. I was curious about what the consequences were if he didn't do the program. (Reading about abusers and realizing just how abusive he is really got my going.) The surprise was on me as she told me he had started it in Nov & then discharged for no shows in mid-Nov. I got immediately angry.
It conveniently coincided with when he "hit bottom" and had everyone calling on his behalf for me to help him get into detox. He wouldn't call himself he claimed because of the protective order. I know now it was him dodging responsibility. But anyway, I got angry because I felt so used. Like once again I had let him manipulate me into getting what he wanted and then once obtained it was back to business as usual of degradation & insults & A. All that time and energy to get him into detox only to now, not even 5 months later he's drinking again.
He's so quick to tell me he can't trust me because I'm sneaky and deceitful, not telling him every minute detail of my day whether we're together or not; not accounting for every penny I spend, when I'm the one working & paying bills. Like he really thinks that when we go thru periods of separation I'm supposed to take daily notes so I can tell him everything that's happened when he decides he wants to talk to me again.
But he's the liar. He's the deceitful one. He says he's done drinking. He says he'll never hurt me again. When I left my house, which I own to move in with him in his uncle's basement, he'd never put me out or take my keys. All he wants to do is get sober, get whatever therapy he must so he can be a good husband and take care of me the way I deserve. And I like a fool fall for it every time! It's the disease I say. It's his drug addicted & neglectful parents I say. It's the baby momma of 4 of his children who convinced him at age 15 (she was 22) that he had to "smack her around" sometimes to keep her in line. Oh, I had plenty of excuses for him. I even want to hope their wrong. That its a clerical error. I called the program directly and left a message for the victim advocate to call me back. I really can't believe he'd be so diabolical and manipulative.
I called him and left him some very angry messages. He didn't get them when he finally called me this evening. He knew by my voice something was wrong and when i told him, of course he denied it. Said he couldn't believe he had to explain something like this to me. That i handle all his medical & business affairs and something like this involving jail he wouldn't play with. I don't see why he's spent 13 of his 37yrs in jail and definitely knows how to manipulate the system. I told him he was a liar and referenced his repeated denial of his affair of last year, only to have the woman tell me since she felt I was such a loving wife. If she hadn't felt guilty and confessed I'd still be believing his faithfulness.
He hung up saying how upset he was that I didn't believe him and he'd have to talk to me later. He hasn't called back yet. I probably gave him this evenings excuse to drink but I'm just tired of tippy toeing around his addiction. I'm tired of having to be the bigger person and keeping my feelings to myself when he has no problem spitting venomous words at my without discretion. I just couldn't let this one go. If it's a mistake fine I'll apologize but if it's not this may just be my breaking point... either way my eyes are open and I refuse to be his personal punching bag and doormat anymore.
I've been doing a lot of reading lately since joining Al Anon. Most of it has been CAL literature intertwined with some fiction to lighten my ever active analyzing brain. However, these last two days I started reading "Why Does He Do That: Inside the Mind of Angry & Controlling Men" and "Gaslighting." Well, today as I was reading the Angry & Controlling Men book, I thought about that conversation and called the lawyer who helped me get my protective order. I was curious about what the consequences were if he didn't do the program. (Reading about abusers and realizing just how abusive he is really got my going.) The surprise was on me as she told me he had started it in Nov & then discharged for no shows in mid-Nov. I got immediately angry.
It conveniently coincided with when he "hit bottom" and had everyone calling on his behalf for me to help him get into detox. He wouldn't call himself he claimed because of the protective order. I know now it was him dodging responsibility. But anyway, I got angry because I felt so used. Like once again I had let him manipulate me into getting what he wanted and then once obtained it was back to business as usual of degradation & insults & A. All that time and energy to get him into detox only to now, not even 5 months later he's drinking again.
He's so quick to tell me he can't trust me because I'm sneaky and deceitful, not telling him every minute detail of my day whether we're together or not; not accounting for every penny I spend, when I'm the one working & paying bills. Like he really thinks that when we go thru periods of separation I'm supposed to take daily notes so I can tell him everything that's happened when he decides he wants to talk to me again.
But he's the liar. He's the deceitful one. He says he's done drinking. He says he'll never hurt me again. When I left my house, which I own to move in with him in his uncle's basement, he'd never put me out or take my keys. All he wants to do is get sober, get whatever therapy he must so he can be a good husband and take care of me the way I deserve. And I like a fool fall for it every time! It's the disease I say. It's his drug addicted & neglectful parents I say. It's the baby momma of 4 of his children who convinced him at age 15 (she was 22) that he had to "smack her around" sometimes to keep her in line. Oh, I had plenty of excuses for him. I even want to hope their wrong. That its a clerical error. I called the program directly and left a message for the victim advocate to call me back. I really can't believe he'd be so diabolical and manipulative.
I called him and left him some very angry messages. He didn't get them when he finally called me this evening. He knew by my voice something was wrong and when i told him, of course he denied it. Said he couldn't believe he had to explain something like this to me. That i handle all his medical & business affairs and something like this involving jail he wouldn't play with. I don't see why he's spent 13 of his 37yrs in jail and definitely knows how to manipulate the system. I told him he was a liar and referenced his repeated denial of his affair of last year, only to have the woman tell me since she felt I was such a loving wife. If she hadn't felt guilty and confessed I'd still be believing his faithfulness.
He hung up saying how upset he was that I didn't believe him and he'd have to talk to me later. He hasn't called back yet. I probably gave him this evenings excuse to drink but I'm just tired of tippy toeing around his addiction. I'm tired of having to be the bigger person and keeping my feelings to myself when he has no problem spitting venomous words at my without discretion. I just couldn't let this one go. If it's a mistake fine I'll apologize but if it's not this may just be my breaking point... either way my eyes are open and I refuse to be his personal punching bag and doormat anymore.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Del Rio, TX
Posts: 380
You know in your heart of hearts, and with your intellectual faculties, the following is true. And it is backed up by the collective hundreds of years of experience on this forum:
They lie.
The don't tell the truth when the truth would work just fine.
They project their own bad behavior on to others.
They manipulate.
They are so self absorbed they barely think of anyone else.
They are delusional. By this I mean they change the reality to one more appealing to themselves.
They deceive.
They are cunning
They work tirelessly to hide what they do.
They are untrustworthy
They have a very slim chance of ever generating real change
They say the meanest of things, then expect us to simply forget and forgive
They create a lot of drama, spend a lot of money, and make many around them miserable. Yet, somehow they often get what they want.
They insist their recovery is the exclusive domain of themselves, and you are not part of it.
They do what they want, when they want, without a care about what you want.
They don't make good partners, significant other, or spouses.
They are often poor parents
They are useful. They can be used as a bad example.
They lie.
The don't tell the truth when the truth would work just fine.
They project their own bad behavior on to others.
They manipulate.
They are so self absorbed they barely think of anyone else.
They are delusional. By this I mean they change the reality to one more appealing to themselves.
They deceive.
They are cunning
They work tirelessly to hide what they do.
They are untrustworthy
They have a very slim chance of ever generating real change
They say the meanest of things, then expect us to simply forget and forgive
They create a lot of drama, spend a lot of money, and make many around them miserable. Yet, somehow they often get what they want.
They insist their recovery is the exclusive domain of themselves, and you are not part of it.
They do what they want, when they want, without a care about what you want.
They don't make good partners, significant other, or spouses.
They are often poor parents
They are useful. They can be used as a bad example.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
OK, good, you've reached your breaking point.
Your only mistake (and I'm NOT being critical here--we've all done the exact same thing) was to point it out to him. To tell him, "Ah-HAH! You're a liar and I caught you!" It may have felt good in the moment, but it really doesn't help you any.
You can take action based on your knowledge without confronting him. You know he lies and manipulates. Work from that knowledge. What do you want for YOU, because HE is unlikely to change.
Your only mistake (and I'm NOT being critical here--we've all done the exact same thing) was to point it out to him. To tell him, "Ah-HAH! You're a liar and I caught you!" It may have felt good in the moment, but it really doesn't help you any.
You can take action based on your knowledge without confronting him. You know he lies and manipulates. Work from that knowledge. What do you want for YOU, because HE is unlikely to change.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Baltimore MD
Posts: 67
I feel like I'm on here every night just to cope with it all. So my AH calls me this evening as if nothings wrong then tries to tell me how hurt he is that I believe the court computer over him and keeps insisting he wouldn't lie about something like that. He wanted me to explain how I could believe them over him. Of course, I tried but he still couldn't grasp it. ( I know what you're thinking - You can't explain anything to an A... Remember, I'm a newbie to recovery) To make a long story short - it went from there to this incident being equivalent to me cheating on him. That I didn't "have his back." That I should have cussed the woman out and never brought it to him. That if that's how I feel then HE thinks we should just end the marriage (as if we live together and have a functional relationship). I'm sad to report I lost it. I yelled, I screamed. I told him how tired I was of being his punching bag and verbal doormat. How I don't understand how in one breathe he can say I'm all he has, all he loves and cares about in the world...loves me more than life itself but yet abuses me in every sense of the word. That it makes no sense that he can not hurt other people when he feels "disrespected" but wants to half-kill me. That he was so concerned with my being the perfect wife when he needed to learn how to be a husband. I got so upset I had an anxiety attack, I told him I couldn't talk anymore, we'd have to talk tomorrow and hung up. Of course, he calls back a few hours later on a "Private Number" like everything is hunky dory with the Hey Baby Whats-up? I told him I still didn't want to talk & to respect me like I respect him when he's upset. You know, that was too much to ask. He says he's done with me. I wish it was that simple.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,871
Why not take a breather for a few days. Block him from phone, email, etc. and just breathe. Talking to him every day just keeps you upset. If he won't give you the space you need, then you have to take it.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
er.
What's 'gaslighting'?
I heard it mentioned in a movie once
but could never find out what it is?
(The Darjeeling Ltd)
I love to read that we are readers on this site.
The more we know - the more we grow.
I can't add anything to this - Suki's post says it.
Distance might be the key here.
What's 'gaslighting'?
I heard it mentioned in a movie once
but could never find out what it is?
(The Darjeeling Ltd)
I love to read that we are readers on this site.
The more we know - the more we grow.
I can't add anything to this - Suki's post says it.
Distance might be the key here.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Baltimore MD
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by barb dwyer 
er.
What's 'gaslighting'?.
What's 'gaslighting'?.
According to Wikipedia:
Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented to the victim with the intent of making them doubt their own memory and perception. It may simply be the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, or it could be the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.
It's DEEP!!! but so very true. My AH is a pro at making me feel like I'm insane when I try to discuss an incident.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 132
Destinym,
When my exhusband was forced to go through anger mang. he told me years later that he just kept getting kicked out and put into an easier program, until he found one he could skate through!
The more you throw at them, the more devious they become! Its like its a challenge for them or something.
And also, when I confronted my dad on all the crazy things he had been doing (Gambler) ie. stealing all my records from credit cards, banks, dr.s etc. anything he could get his hands on, not to mention stealing my stuff right out from under me...
he broke into my room and put every piece of mail/ receipts/ paperwork you name it all over the place. To make me thinkI was crazy!
My thoughts and prayers are with you. Stay strong
When my exhusband was forced to go through anger mang. he told me years later that he just kept getting kicked out and put into an easier program, until he found one he could skate through!
The more you throw at them, the more devious they become! Its like its a challenge for them or something.
And also, when I confronted my dad on all the crazy things he had been doing (Gambler) ie. stealing all my records from credit cards, banks, dr.s etc. anything he could get his hands on, not to mention stealing my stuff right out from under me...
he broke into my room and put every piece of mail/ receipts/ paperwork you name it all over the place. To make me thinkI was crazy!
My thoughts and prayers are with you. Stay strong
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,637
Originally Posted by DestinyM
I wondered the same thing when someone mentioned it on another one of my posts so I googled it and was blown away.
According to Wikipedia:
Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented to the victim with the intent of making them doubt their own memory and perception. It may simply be the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, or it could be the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.
It's DEEP!!! but so very true. My AH is a pro at making me feel like I'm insane when I try to discuss an incident.
According to Wikipedia:
Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented to the victim with the intent of making them doubt their own memory and perception. It may simply be the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, or it could be the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.
It's DEEP!!! but so very true. My AH is a pro at making me feel like I'm insane when I try to discuss an incident.
Holy crap. That was the exact conversation I had with my AH yesterday. He told me that I stood between him and the door, and tried to keep him from leaving and that made him mad so that's why he grabbed me. Only problem with his version... I was sitting on the bed, away from the door. And didn't say a damn thing about him leaving.
He has used that tactic for so long... And in the past, it's worked. I continually found myself apologizing even when I did nothing wrong.
Not this time. I know the truth and I will not accept any blame for his actions.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Baltimore MD
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by GettingBy
He has used that tactic for so long... And in the past, it's worked. I continually found myself apologizing even when I did nothing wrong.
Not this time. I know the truth and I will not accept any blame for his actions.
I go thru it all the time, especially now that I'm trying to set boundaries and stand up for myself. I'm still working on JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) & I still (I wish I didn't) kinda hope he'll realize what these last 8 years has done to me and get it together. So now we're separated and he wants to discuss "how things got this way again" and of course, I'm crazy and delusional with my version of events. Some days I'm good at just hanging up the phone but some days, and its true about HALT (Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired) he gets me going and next thing you know I'm screaming and having an anxiety attack.
It's a One Day at a Time Program -- Progress not Perfection -- At least I know what it is he doing so I can work on keeping me sane.
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,637
Destiny -
Thanks for giving me a heads up on what lies ahead!! I'm going to call the divorce attorney and get the process this week. I'm not going to talk to AH about it... There's nothing left to discuss.
Funny because, probably like you, I've tried talking all throughout the last 10 yrs and it got me no where. And I suspect, hell I KNOW that he's going to accuse me of giving up, walking away, and not keeping up my end of the vows. He already is but I suspect he's going to up the ante when I actually serve him with papers.
When he gets like that, I picture it as he's throwing a rope at me. I have a choice - pick it up and play tug of war, or leave it on the ground and not participate in the game. I think that visual helps me keep my feet on the ground and not sucked into his drama.
It is one step at a time... I'm so grateful to have this healthy community to support me.
Thanks for giving me a heads up on what lies ahead!! I'm going to call the divorce attorney and get the process this week. I'm not going to talk to AH about it... There's nothing left to discuss.
Funny because, probably like you, I've tried talking all throughout the last 10 yrs and it got me no where. And I suspect, hell I KNOW that he's going to accuse me of giving up, walking away, and not keeping up my end of the vows. He already is but I suspect he's going to up the ante when I actually serve him with papers.
When he gets like that, I picture it as he's throwing a rope at me. I have a choice - pick it up and play tug of war, or leave it on the ground and not participate in the game. I think that visual helps me keep my feet on the ground and not sucked into his drama.
It is one step at a time... I'm so grateful to have this healthy community to support me.
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