stanleyhouse

As you grow in recovery and life it won't matter to you if you are right, you probably won't care to debate. People learn that being led by their ego is a hopeless, harmful way to live. Let go of what you and others thought you should be. Think about who you were before you allowed yourself to become what you are.
Sorry for the random advice. I just always think about ego when I read debate threads.
SH

Ghostly

Interesting point.

Supercrew

I apologize, but for me to stay active on the board I like to stay interested in the board. I might come off as someone who questions things and who likes to debate, but I really don't do it with malice...which is sometimes hard to pick up on a message board. I find it entertaining and fun to debate topics I find interesting. By me staying entertained by posting and debating it keep me actively thinking about my recovery, sobriety, and this forum.

Obviously I don't want to post anything that could harms anyone else's sobriety, but by using this forum as a entertainment/learning/sobriety tool, sometimes I allow myself to comment on topics that may make me out to be and opinionated jerk...which although that isn't my intention, sometimes is the case. But it is the way I can enjoy and look forward to coming to the forum and stay interested in the posts, and ultimately keep my mind on recovery.

I will apologize to anyone who finds my posts offensive or anti certain types of recovery, because I am not anti any method if it works, I just find it good for me to stay interested, and sometimes debating helps. So if I ever tick you off please don't take it personal....I'm really a pretty nice, down to earth, thoughtful person...which is hard to see through the computer.

reggiewayne

Good stuff Stanelyhouse. I appreciate it very much! Like my dad always said (golf analogy) "It's not how far, it's how many". Meaning, it doesn't matter how we get to where we're going, as long as we get there. Good point!

MsCooterBrown

The best part of SR...no matter how we are all here to reach the goal of sobriety!

yeahgr8

I see what you mean:-)

If any alcoholic/addict has truly changed they will now feel compassion (even empathy) for the still suffering alcoholic/addict and that will ensure that they wish to share their solution to how they recovered and that's a great thing...

Compassion is not the feeling of sadness that used to overwhelm us when we read or hear of another's story, sometimes deeply affecting our day...that is self pity and indicates no change...then as you say becoming on emotional supercharge in any debate in an effort to defend our right to feel sorry for ourselves.

Indifference is a stretch too far too as it still indicates selfishness...a healthy detached compassion is the balance i believe...

As you say ego is will want to be right, regardless of the debate and regardless of whether the person actually joins the debate...a smug silence is ego as is a strong argument both indicators that the person is still living in black and white with no grey areas..

However if an alcoholic/addict has been in a living hell for some years and stumbles across a solution for them then they may seem over zealous, even to the extent that it may appear they are forcing their will on other people. I would take this into account too and not necessarily attribute it to ego.

The only way to really help another alcoholic/addict is to share your experience, strength and hope, and maybe they will identify with something you have said and want to follow the same path...

Personally i find the debate thread good fun and its nice that everyone has a say, you really don't know other people's situations...they may not get out much, be timid in real life, be unsure of what they are saying and want to test the waters etc...

Some more random thoughts:-)

jhay

Thank you for sharing!

stanleyhouse

I listen first to the struggling alcoholic, and than if asked, I share my experience, strength and hope. Really listening to someone will be more beneficial IMO to that person than my methodology.
I enjoy reading the debates, I'm just not sure about their place on the newcomers board.
SH

Aysha

One of my biggest defects..Ego. I got it bad. I have to get the last word in.
But I'm working on it. '
And only through meditation can I refocus on what is really important.
Its nice to keep em guessin sometimes..LOL
Make em wonder what your thinking.
That means keepin my big mouth shut sometimes.

micealc

In my opinion we are all here not to see through each other, but to see each other Through.

artsoul

Hi SH- oh that mischievous ego....... it will judge, make us angry and fearful, and then turn around and make us feel guilty for having it!

I'm trying not to take it too seriously lately.......trying to recognize it for what it is and see that what I really want (and what we're all made of down deep) is love......

Good thoughts!

1_day@_a_time

For me the debate is a type of poison which I have been caught up in way to often.

If I actually learn from my mistakes/past and change I grow and become a better man and can be of service to others.

I like where it talks on pg 91 (?) in the 12 x 12 about restraint of pen and tongue.

The last sentence of that paragraph says "For I can neither think nor act to good purpose until the habit or self-restraint becomes automatic.

These are areas where I have improved but still need diligent work.

I will close with....I would rather be happy than right.

Make it a great day....

recycle

Good stuff 1_day, debate is poison. It is an attempt to impose my will on another. A classic attempt at me running the show. Even though I have been trying to stay out of our recent nonsense, I still find myself prowling the forums looking for some asshat that I can kick the crap out of. Yuck, it is grotesque. It is like watching those stupid YouTube clips where the fat lady falls, or the guy takes it in the shorts - It is not funny, and it is not healthy for me.

To those people I have posted snarky replies too, and to those people I just wrote snarky replies but never sent, I apologize. I sincerely meant no harm, I am more toxic than I realized. In the future I will do my best to do no harm.

Namaste

stanleyhouse

Artsoul
I always like it when you share your your feelings on "we" as as persons being love. It is so true. Hard to explain but true.
Everybody, thanks for sharing on this thread. SR is part of my recovery and I appreciate the group.
SH

NYCDoglvr

My best thinking got me to the rooms of AA...........

yeahgr8

Was chatting with an old timer the other day about AA phrases like this one and how they are really open to interpretation, for example with this one the longer version could be:

My best thinking, using the limited resources i had available at the time, got me into AA...now with many more resources at my fingertips my best thinking allows me to make sane, responsible and mature choices...

The longer version makes more sense, that is if we aren't taking into account that there are over 60,000 thoughts running through our heads on a daily basis and really to live in the moment we are better off entertaining a very small minority of them, as one would hope that after doing significant work on ourselves that our thinking may be a little more on track?

I bet we could rattle off a few between us but don't want to steer the thread too off topic, might be a fun one for another thread:-)

TotoBidule

I think there is a HUGE difference between debate-as-argument and debate-as-discussion. The first involves ego, the second a sharing of different viewpoints/experiences. The first usually involves dogma and people who have already made up their minds no matter what, the second is healthy and usually leads to people at least understanding their own positions more thoroughly...

FrothyJay

I think if we had it all figured out, debate would be pointless.

But less than 10% of people who try to get sober actually stay sober for any length of time. We are failing miserably, regardless of whether you believe in AA, Smart, or the Monroe Doctrine as your program of recovery.

Yeah, I know: it works for me. That's great.

But until we get it working for a few more people, I'll gladly have dialogue, and debate, with people about the nature of alcoholism and what recovery is.

It's a forum.

Supercrew

We are failing miserably, regardless of whether you believe in AA, Smart, or the Monroe Doctrine as your program of recovery.

Frothy, I feel my recovery is my responsibility. If by posting my experiences, or talking to an aquaintence, (who is looking for help), I am able to help them on a path to sobriety and happiness I am delighted.

Your statement makes it sound as if you are holding yourself accountable to make other people get and stay sober. Is that really realistic? And is it healthy for you during your own recovery to put that burden on yourself?

FrothyJay

Not sure how my statement can be construed to suggest that I think I need to keep people sober. I cannot get or keep anyone sober. I'm very aware of that.

But a key ingredient of the AA program is that we cannot keep what we don't give away. So being clear to others on what alcoholism is and how the program of AA specifically works are critical to my maintaining my sobriety. Part of that is presenting information, and correcting misinformation about what AA is. What people do with what I say or write is entirely up to them.

I understand that some people believe recovery is largely an individual pursuit. But that's not AA. It's not a "selfish" program (not suggesting yours is, just using the painful phrase so often used in AA meetings).