no more booze and benzos
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 15
no more booze and benzos
Hi all. This is my first post although I have lurked occasionally since I've been sober. After 40 years of drinking, I stopped on October 20, 2009. I was beginning to get anxiety attacks and knew it was the booze so I quit. Then came a protracted withdrawal. During the last 13 years of drinking I was also taking klonopin (1 mg/day). I had thought that the K would help reduce the duration of the protracted withdrawal - faulty thinking. (I even upped the dose to 4 mg for awhile which only through me into horrid depression.)
It seems that the K actually made things worse and was prolonging the withdrawal. Apparently, alcohol and benzos affect the same receptors in the brain (GABA), so that my brain thought I was still drinking because I was taking the K. So, over the course of 3 months (a long time I know) I did wean off the 1 mg K. So, I've been "sober" from benzos for 6 months.
I would love to say that I have experienced the "happy, joyous, and free" feelings that I read about here and elsewhere, but that has not been the case. Each day since I've been sober from the booze (October 2009), I have had the anxiety, depression, and all the things that they entail. I've been on antidepressants and even Seroquel which only made things worse. Of course, they each have their own nasty withdrawal.
Apparently, time is required for my brain to recover. No quick fix here (although this addict would like a quick fix). My brain believes that I've been sober for 6 months (although the booze has been gone for 15 months). I really have no craving for either the booze or benzos. I am apparently one of those people who gets to go through the "terrible twos" although my brain believes I'm still in the first year.
At any rate, I am so looking forward to the "happy, joyous, and free" days. I hope they are not too far away.
Don
It seems that the K actually made things worse and was prolonging the withdrawal. Apparently, alcohol and benzos affect the same receptors in the brain (GABA), so that my brain thought I was still drinking because I was taking the K. So, over the course of 3 months (a long time I know) I did wean off the 1 mg K. So, I've been "sober" from benzos for 6 months.
I would love to say that I have experienced the "happy, joyous, and free" feelings that I read about here and elsewhere, but that has not been the case. Each day since I've been sober from the booze (October 2009), I have had the anxiety, depression, and all the things that they entail. I've been on antidepressants and even Seroquel which only made things worse. Of course, they each have their own nasty withdrawal.
Apparently, time is required for my brain to recover. No quick fix here (although this addict would like a quick fix). My brain believes that I've been sober for 6 months (although the booze has been gone for 15 months). I really have no craving for either the booze or benzos. I am apparently one of those people who gets to go through the "terrible twos" although my brain believes I'm still in the first year.
At any rate, I am so looking forward to the "happy, joyous, and free" days. I hope they are not too far away.
Don
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,439
Hi Don
I was morose for a long time after stopping drinking (20 years in my case, no other meds).
Apart from sitting down and facing a few demons....I found being a part of a community like this helped me a lot - it feels good to be connected and know that there's support around...and to know that I can give support too
Welcome
D
I was morose for a long time after stopping drinking (20 years in my case, no other meds).
Apart from sitting down and facing a few demons....I found being a part of a community like this helped me a lot - it feels good to be connected and know that there's support around...and to know that I can give support too
Welcome
D
Grateful Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MI
Posts: 1,080
Hello, and welcome!
I think the happy, joyous and free feelings are from the spiritual awakening many of us have upon being in a recovery program.
Maybe you are clean and sober, but not recovering.
Just a thought.
I think the happy, joyous and free feelings are from the spiritual awakening many of us have upon being in a recovery program.
Maybe you are clean and sober, but not recovering.
Just a thought.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 15
That is a good thought. Actually, I believe that God (the one of my understanding) has put me in this place as an answer to prayer. I was desperate to quit drinking for the last few years and asked Him to make me quit drinking whatever it would take. He showed me (through the anxiety and panic attacks) what I was doing to myself. That made me quit. (Sounds like a paradox, I know.) If He had chosen an "easier softer way," I have no doubt I would be drinking again. My wife and I have discussed that many times. I believe that God wants me to "stay stopped" this time (and I have tried to stop many times). The joy at the end of this part of the journey will be amazing, I have no doubt. God is using strong medicine, but He will also provide the strength.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 167
The general withdrawal period for benzos is 6 - 18 months, have you researched it?
Drinking and taking benzos for such a long period may also be exacerbating the withdrawal.
It takes time. Other medications added as an adjunct to withdrawal usually complicate the situation further.
good luck.
Drinking and taking benzos for such a long period may also be exacerbating the withdrawal.
It takes time. Other medications added as an adjunct to withdrawal usually complicate the situation further.
good luck.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,126
Don
You have found a good place to be -- SR.
Your post really spoke to me. Benzos and booze are probably the hardest recovery there is -- not in the fight to live without them, but in the insidious nature of withdrawal. Thank God you tapered the Klonopin or you would be in a much worse fix. I assume you researched benzodiazepines or you wouldn't have had the sense to taper the K.
I went cold turkey from 20 milligrams of Klonopin and ended up in the psych ward for 10 days. I quit booze and benzos at the same time and around 10 days out fell into incredible psychosis. I had not slept for 12 days -- zero sleep -- had hallucinations, seizures, a pure journey to hades and, thank God, back.
I've also been treated for major depression for 20 years, taking every combination of antidepressants and benzos you can imagine.The alcohol warning on the benzo bottle was a beer commercial to me!
I was placed on 50 milligrams of Seroquel upon being discharged from the hospital and have tapered that down to 7.5 milligrams and will be off of it in four days. And an amazing thing has happened. Though I have been off benzos and booze for a shorter period of time than you -- five months now -- and I have never had the epiphany of trumpets blaring and happiness flying around on winged horses that others find in sobriety, the total despair has eased.
Be grateful for what you have -- a wife! A chance for a new life! And realize we are healing, slowly, too darn slow for our liking, but healing indeed. It's hard too grasp, it adds to our low-tolerance level for frustration, but please cling to that thought.
You do heal with time. MyHeadHurts is dead on -- recovering from benzo withdrawal takes six to 18 months, and that's the hardest part.
You mentioned the GABA issue, and since I've obsessively researched this subject to death, you're right -- our brains have to relearn how to absorb GABA, and until it does, we suffer.
But my suffering has eased. When I got out of the hospital, I couldn't walk, couldn't hold a glass of water, and cognition was lost. I would walk into a room and forget why, go back, sit down, wonder where the glass of water I went to get was.
But it has passed. My hands shook, my fingers would grow cold and numb, my body shook inside like I was sitting on a idling Harley, I had no emotions, couldn't even shed a tear at my own plight. The depression was overwhelming. Sunlight hurt, food tasted like tin, panic ruled.
The first thing to go was panic, something that plagued me all my life. Where was the anxiety that prompted shrinks to put me on Klonopin for 10 years? Depression fuels anxiety, as well as regrets, remorse, self-loathing, the whole nine yards. While I was immersed in depression and self pity, the anxiety and agoraphobia eased. This happened about four months out.
I'm no doctor and am in no position to dole out advice, but I seriously question the applicability of Seroquel. The only sound reason I can see for its use in a situation like ours is for sleep, but it is a heavy duty anti-psychotic. When I was on 50 milligrams, the sleep came -- heaven sent in my book -- but the dopiness and depression were astounding.
It sounds like a doctor knew you would face serious bouts of insomnia, and maybe that's why he put you on it. And I hope the tapering meant he was aware of the dangers of abrupt withdrawal from benzos. But I've found doctors routinely turn to heavy-duty drugs like Seroquel and Depakote -- another drug I've tapered -- because that's all they know how to do: turn to the prescription pad, medicate our problems away. But insomnia hasn't returned, and that's without the drinking and pill popping that eased numb apathy into unconsciousness.
You'll find more descriptions of what I went through -- more than anyone wants to know -- by searching for my threads. You've found the right place. I also found the right place at AA meetings. I go to NA, too, as where I'm at right now has more of those than AA meetings. In the fellowship I've found some basic tools that have helped me deal with anxiety, depression and panic disorder which tens of thousands of dollars worth of cognitive behavioral therapy never could do -- experience a semblance of peace, the ability to give up selfish thinking, the concept that my life is controlled by something just a tad more powerful than me, doing for others, putting the needs of others before mine, and more.
Easy for most to have, impossible for me to learn until I walked through the doors of a meeting. Please keep posting. There are many here dealing with the same issues as you and we find that sharing our stories helps us and we hope that in doing so it helps someone else. Please feel free to send me a PM if you want. I only hope my experience can give others hope.
You have found a good place to be -- SR.
Your post really spoke to me. Benzos and booze are probably the hardest recovery there is -- not in the fight to live without them, but in the insidious nature of withdrawal. Thank God you tapered the Klonopin or you would be in a much worse fix. I assume you researched benzodiazepines or you wouldn't have had the sense to taper the K.
I went cold turkey from 20 milligrams of Klonopin and ended up in the psych ward for 10 days. I quit booze and benzos at the same time and around 10 days out fell into incredible psychosis. I had not slept for 12 days -- zero sleep -- had hallucinations, seizures, a pure journey to hades and, thank God, back.
I've also been treated for major depression for 20 years, taking every combination of antidepressants and benzos you can imagine.The alcohol warning on the benzo bottle was a beer commercial to me!
I was placed on 50 milligrams of Seroquel upon being discharged from the hospital and have tapered that down to 7.5 milligrams and will be off of it in four days. And an amazing thing has happened. Though I have been off benzos and booze for a shorter period of time than you -- five months now -- and I have never had the epiphany of trumpets blaring and happiness flying around on winged horses that others find in sobriety, the total despair has eased.
Be grateful for what you have -- a wife! A chance for a new life! And realize we are healing, slowly, too darn slow for our liking, but healing indeed. It's hard too grasp, it adds to our low-tolerance level for frustration, but please cling to that thought.
You do heal with time. MyHeadHurts is dead on -- recovering from benzo withdrawal takes six to 18 months, and that's the hardest part.
You mentioned the GABA issue, and since I've obsessively researched this subject to death, you're right -- our brains have to relearn how to absorb GABA, and until it does, we suffer.
But my suffering has eased. When I got out of the hospital, I couldn't walk, couldn't hold a glass of water, and cognition was lost. I would walk into a room and forget why, go back, sit down, wonder where the glass of water I went to get was.
But it has passed. My hands shook, my fingers would grow cold and numb, my body shook inside like I was sitting on a idling Harley, I had no emotions, couldn't even shed a tear at my own plight. The depression was overwhelming. Sunlight hurt, food tasted like tin, panic ruled.
The first thing to go was panic, something that plagued me all my life. Where was the anxiety that prompted shrinks to put me on Klonopin for 10 years? Depression fuels anxiety, as well as regrets, remorse, self-loathing, the whole nine yards. While I was immersed in depression and self pity, the anxiety and agoraphobia eased. This happened about four months out.
I'm no doctor and am in no position to dole out advice, but I seriously question the applicability of Seroquel. The only sound reason I can see for its use in a situation like ours is for sleep, but it is a heavy duty anti-psychotic. When I was on 50 milligrams, the sleep came -- heaven sent in my book -- but the dopiness and depression were astounding.
It sounds like a doctor knew you would face serious bouts of insomnia, and maybe that's why he put you on it. And I hope the tapering meant he was aware of the dangers of abrupt withdrawal from benzos. But I've found doctors routinely turn to heavy-duty drugs like Seroquel and Depakote -- another drug I've tapered -- because that's all they know how to do: turn to the prescription pad, medicate our problems away. But insomnia hasn't returned, and that's without the drinking and pill popping that eased numb apathy into unconsciousness.
You'll find more descriptions of what I went through -- more than anyone wants to know -- by searching for my threads. You've found the right place. I also found the right place at AA meetings. I go to NA, too, as where I'm at right now has more of those than AA meetings. In the fellowship I've found some basic tools that have helped me deal with anxiety, depression and panic disorder which tens of thousands of dollars worth of cognitive behavioral therapy never could do -- experience a semblance of peace, the ability to give up selfish thinking, the concept that my life is controlled by something just a tad more powerful than me, doing for others, putting the needs of others before mine, and more.
Easy for most to have, impossible for me to learn until I walked through the doors of a meeting. Please keep posting. There are many here dealing with the same issues as you and we find that sharing our stories helps us and we hope that in doing so it helps someone else. Please feel free to send me a PM if you want. I only hope my experience can give others hope.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: nj
Posts: 2
Finally quitting xanax but scared
I've been on xanax on and off most of my life. I'm up to 3 mg a day, but usually end up taking more like 6, and then refill then early, thus always having constant anxiety that my doctor will figure it out, that i'm asking for refills too soon.
when i told him i wanted to eventually get off them, he didn't offer any advice really and kind of left it up to me to cut the pills in half, expect some withdrawals symptoms ... he doesn't seem to want to deal with it.
but i'm going to see him thursday and tell me i need a schedule, and then pills that are less than 1 mg, and so on. im thinking that maybe he just doesn't have a clue how to do a tapering schedule, which is why he left it up to me. But if he can't help me, I'll ask him for a referral to someone who can taper me off safely, and with minimal withdrawal. There has to be some kind of specialists who do this kind of thing ...
i'm finally off alcohol for a week and i go to AA, got a sponsor. but she doesnt know i'm taking xanax. i think the xanax actually makes me crave alcohol ...
anyone have some experience, strength and hope about this topic?
i'm so scared of the withdrawal symptoms ...
thanks
when i told him i wanted to eventually get off them, he didn't offer any advice really and kind of left it up to me to cut the pills in half, expect some withdrawals symptoms ... he doesn't seem to want to deal with it.
but i'm going to see him thursday and tell me i need a schedule, and then pills that are less than 1 mg, and so on. im thinking that maybe he just doesn't have a clue how to do a tapering schedule, which is why he left it up to me. But if he can't help me, I'll ask him for a referral to someone who can taper me off safely, and with minimal withdrawal. There has to be some kind of specialists who do this kind of thing ...
i'm finally off alcohol for a week and i go to AA, got a sponsor. but she doesnt know i'm taking xanax. i think the xanax actually makes me crave alcohol ...
anyone have some experience, strength and hope about this topic?
i'm so scared of the withdrawal symptoms ...
thanks
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,439
Hi Laramia
I know you'll find some experience and support here.
Feel free to check out our substance abuse forum too
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/substance-abuse
Welcome!
D
I know you'll find some experience and support here.
Feel free to check out our substance abuse forum too
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/substance-abuse
Welcome!
D
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 316
Congrats on your sobriety! Coming off of benzos is so hard. I've never done it myself, but medically it's as bad as alcohol withdrawal and it lingers for a long time while your brain tries to upgrade its GABA receptors enough to keep the anxiety at bay. I've had an anxiety disorder all my life so I do know how terrible those neurobiological abnormalities feel. It can be really debilitating, but it sounds like you're doing really well. Keep it up and better days will come!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 15
Hello again all. Thanks for the compassion, concern, and advice. There is truly a wealth of information and experience here. It’s amazing how many people are also currently going through withdrawal from alcohol and benzos. These past couple weeks have been more difficult it seems to me than the previous weeks. I’m at 6 months sobriety from benzos, and I thought, if anything, things would improve with time rather than get worse. I did read somewhere that protracted withdrawal often “peaks” in intensity before it starts to improve. Perhaps that is what is going on with me. I would welcome any insights concerning that. I also took Seroquel for 5 weeks (got up to 200 mg before I stopped), but pretty much cold turkeyed that 3 weeks ago. I would think that withdrawal is over but who knows. Thanks.
Don
Don
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,439
I've no idea whether it's protracted withdrawal, and I have no experience with benzos, SoberinHburg....
but I find this to be a useful general link on PAWs (post acute withdrawal)
PAWS « Digital Dharma
D
but I find this to be a useful general link on PAWs (post acute withdrawal)
PAWS « Digital Dharma
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 15
Thanks D. The link to PAWS (which I call protracted withdrawal also) and the book from which that information comes are where I saw the "peak" reference. The symptoms of PAWS peak in 3 to 6 months as long as abstinence from alcohol and drugs is maintained. Even though I've been off the booze for 15 months, my brain believes that it's only been 6 months (from the benzos). According to Bill (moderator for the Digital Dharma link), I was staying in withdrawal from the benzos even though I hadn't been drinking. Perhaps I am "peaking" since it's been 6 months off benzos. Maybe things will begin to improve noticeably now. I am SO ready for some "happy, joyous, and free" feelings. The road has been long. I had no idea the booze and benzos were doing this to me. I have learned a lot through this. I have an appreciation and understanding of why it is so hard for addicts (of which I am one obviously) to get and stay clean. Thanks again.
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