emilylou

I hope it is ok to post this here, but I would really like to learn from other friends/family about patterns and behaviors of substance abusers.

I am new to this forum, and recently started seeing a recovering alcoholic/substance abuser (a few months sober) who came on really strong and initiated everything, and was so attentive and sweet and wonderful...and then all of a sudden he shut it all down and said he needed to focus on the present.

Now I don't know where I stand, although I think it's over because we went from speaking everyday to not at all. And he also REALLY pushed the emotional intimacy from the start, and pushed even more towards the end. To the point where I was uncomfortable with the level of emotional intimacy he was demanding from me, and had also had red flags (that I obviously ignored) from the start with how strong he came on from the beginning, and how fast it seemed to be moving. And then he just shut it down.

Is this something that people in recovery have a habit of doing, and why? I am interested in learning about this, because it would certainly make things easier to understand. I would like to remain a friend to him if I can at least do that, so learning more about this would really help. I hope it will also help me work through the disappointment and hurt this has caused me, because I feel like I did something wrong by pushing him too hard about where things were going. But you can imagine my confusion with how it started and ended. I have since found out that people in recovery are not supposed to date or start any romantic relationships for 1 year after getting sober, which I did not know.

Thanks in advance.

atalose

Emilylou welcome,

Let me ask you this, what benefit would you get by remaining his “friend” at this point since you obviously said “you pushed him about where things were going” you want far more then just a “friendship” so why would you settle for less then what you really want?

Not to add further pain here but you asked, some thing painful brought him to recovery in the first place, he lost a relationship, he lost a job, something came about in his life that was painful enough for him to seek help and get clean/sober.

And in that short little 2 months, he found you, a good diversion away from the hard work it takes to remain clean/sober. That emotional dependency on you was similar to that emotional dependency on drugs/alcohol with overwhelming consumption.

He has a very long road ahead of him, it’s impossible to focus on both getting clean/sober and remaining that way and starting any kind of a new relationship. You are the diversion away from that recovery, seems he realized this and has pulled back so he can remain focused on the most important aspect of his life right now – recovery.

My best guess, if you are not speaking – keep it that way and move on with your life. Don’t build expectations on what can be from a year from now, cause the chances of him relapsing are pretty great.

Seren

Hello Emily! Welcome to SR!!!

There is so much great information here, from all the sharing by other members to the "stickies" at the top of each forum!

What you describe does sound as though the man you are dating may not be entirely ready for a relationship. I have read that when someone comes on very strong early in a relationship, that it is a "red flag" that the person is not prepared for real love and a real commitment.

Perhaps slowing things down would be for the best. What I have learned here is that an addict in early recovery truly needs every last ounce of concentration and effort to maintain their new sobriety. This sometimes comes at the expense of giving their attention to a potential partner.

I hope that you will stick around, make yourself comfortable, and keep asking questions. There will be others along soon!!!

Hugs, HG

emilylou

Thanks everyone for your responses!

atalose, he is more than 2 months sober, and I've known him for a while and we only recently started dating, so I do think of him as a friend. And once I found out more about recovery, and everything you mentioned about how focused he needs to be on that and what a distraction a relationship would be - I didn't need to hear any more. I do not want to be a distraction and just want him to get better. And since we forged such a close friendship, if nothing else, through all the emotional intimacy, I would like to continue to be a friend if that's possible. And in no way would I dream of pushing again. I just didn't have the information before.

Thanks for your response.

And thank you too, hydrogirl!

atalose

It shouldn’t be about YOU stepping away so HE doesn’t have any distractions in HIS recovery. It should be that YOU DESERVE FAR MORE THEN WHAT HE COULD POSSIBLE OFFER YOU TODAY and possibly into the future. It should be about YOUR wants and needs getting met.

It shouldn't be about just because we have known someone a while means we are obligated to them.

It should be about recognizing red flags before investing too much emotionally in someone else.

It should be about NOT settling or having a perception of another person’s POTENTIAL.

You wish far more from this person then just being “friends” other wise you wouldn’t have pushed that issue so settling to be his friend may be a recipe for disaster for you. I don’t want to see you get hurt or disappointed and we and yes me included (lesson learned the hard way) often settle cause we think it just may turn into more and more often then not it doesn’t and we get hurt.

emilylou

Ugh...you're right, atalose! haha...but the reason I pushed it was because I was confused, because I thought things were going in one direction (from the attentiveness and how he came on so strong from the beginning) and then suddenly they veered off, and I pushed to find out what the heck was going on. And I still didn't figure it all out until later.

I know. I know I have codependency issues, and this situation has made that glaringly obvious so that I cannot ignore it. Any suggestions on good books to read about codependency? I have Awakening in Time, but couldn't get through it. I didn't find the exercises/tools to be very practical in helping overcome this.

Thanks again.

MissTara

Emilylou,

Welcome to SR! I am sorry your having a hard time dealing with this situation but am glad that you are here and asking so many questions. I am currently reading *Codependent No More* by Melody Beattie. See has good books out there. I also read *Hope for Today* which is an Al-Anon family groups book. I hope this helps some.

atalose

The book MissTara recommened is good and I also enjoy “The Language of Letting Go” by Melody Beattie, it’s a daily meditation book. And one more I enjoyed was Beyond Codependency –And Getting Better All The Time. by Melody Beattie

It’s about learning what is healthy and what is not. I tend to be a people pleasure never learned to say the word no and often got my feelings hurt because other people were not acting as I was, there for I assumed they didn’t care about me because my caring was over board, over the top and extremely un-healthy so when I was faced with healthy from others I saw it as un-caring and un-loving and un-kind……..boy did I have a lot to learn!!!

emilylou

Yeah, this has been a HUGE wake-up call for me. I will definitely get those books, and I appreciate all of your responses.

Atalose, this part of your post:

"It’s about learning what is healthy and what is not. I tend to be a people pleasure never learned to say the word no and often got my feelings hurt because other people were not acting as I was, there for I assumed they didn’t care about me because my caring was over board, over the top and extremely un-healthy so when I was faced with healthy from others I saw it as un-caring and un-loving and un-kind……..boy did I have a lot to learn!!!"

...describes me completely! I hope I can do a lot of the work on my own, because although I have been in therapy for the past 4 years (what the HECK have we been doing?!), I am currently coming off a plan and have no coverage for therapy right now, and cannot afford to pay out of pocket. So I hope I can do a lot of this on my own...I mean, like I said, it's been 4 years in therapy and I'm just figuring this out on MY OWN...kinda ticks me off! haha...

atalose

emilylou,

Is there any kind of alcoholism/addiction in your family? Parents, grand- parents?, aunts, uncles?

I think there is alot we can do on our own besides therapy. There are other sites out there on the net just for codependency issues. Reading helps but the only thing that has ever helped me was:

I couldnt' think my way into a new way of living I had to LIVE my life in a new way. Where saying no does not come with guilt!!!! lol onece you begin to live differently, it becomes easy.

emilylou

Hey atalose,

No, there is no alcoholism or addiction on either side of my family, at least not that I am aware of. There was, however, physical and emotional abuse from my mother. And the emotional abuse still lives on. And wow, if we really get into it, I am living at home again and should NOT be here. And I really do feel like my mom has instilled this codependence in me, because she has acted it out with me my entire life. I honestly believe that she sabotages me, emotionally and otherwise, so that I cannot move out, or makes me feel like I cannot move out because I am not "ready" or "good enough", or "responsible enough". But yet at the same time, she says she wants me to leave. I recognize the sick, twisted-ness of the situation, and I want to leave so badly, but right now I am in such a bad financial situation that I simply can't. I really do hope to turn it around VERY quickly though, because I know that in order for me to really begin healing, I need to be away from her influence.

Babyblue

I don't think you will ever know where you stand until they have a healthy life of long term sobriety.

What you friend did was par for the course. They are in NO WAY equipped to handle the emotional needs of someone else AT ALL in early recovery. That isn't to say you did anything wrong though. You didn't. The key is not to take what he does personally. Easier said that done.

If you don't want just a friendship, and cannot be just a friend then don't settle. But he will not have the capacity for a healthy, give and take relationshp for a lonnnnng time. Take away the commitments of a program, emotionally they can't handle it.

The charm and wooing were because recovery is very lonely. Looking at their own issues is very hard so they latch onto someone that will feed their emotional need (since they don't have the substance) is the next best thing.

I could have written your post a year ago. It is all about what you need and want, not about HIM at all. Don't make it about him or you will be disappointed over and over.

BB.

wicked

emilylou,

i am the adult child of an alcoholic. my father was the active alcoholic and my mother was an ineffective and depressed woman.

I just received my Big Red Book. It is like the Big Book for Alcoholics Anonymous.
This one is title for Adult children of alcoholics, but INCLUDES everyone who has had to grow up with dysfunction, and emilylou, this last post of yours looks like you qualify.

I am new to ACOA, so I cannot speak much about it, but it will support you and your struggles with your mother. This push and pull dynamic must make you feel a little worn down. Wanting to escape and being unable to must also be taking a toll.
But, I also think you have some skills that you grew in having to deal with this dysfunction from your mother, but they need to be honed so you are more pro active instead of reactive.

Maybe there are face to face meetings where you are?
I have not found any near me, but I am looking into online groups.
The Big Red Book is a real eye opener so far, and I am not new to the 12 steps, I have over 14 years of sobriety.

I will be thinking of you and sending good thoughts your way.



Beth

PS You are not alone.

emilylou

Thank you all so much again, I really appreciate your responses!

Babyblue, I think you hit the nail on the head. I am trying to understand and accept all of that now, but that has only come from my own research. I wish he could've told me this himself in the first place, it obviously would have saved some heartache! But at the same time, I know now that he didn't tell me this because he didn't realize what he was doing, and once he did, it was probably hard for him to explain. It just sucks because this was my "exception", as I have been avoiding dating for the past few years, and I really like him, which doesn't happen very often. But that also forces me to ask myself why I made an exception for someone that I knew was in recovery? I can honestly say though, that I had NO idea what all went into the process and what people go through until I did my own research after the fact. But the fact remains that I am only attracted to guys that are emotionally unavailable, and that is a problem. I bought a codependent self-help book today, and have my eye on a couple of more already.

Wicked, I appreciate your suggestion, and I will check out the Big Red Book. Yes, "worn down" is EXACTLY how I feel about the situation with my mom! I actually recently said to her, "I can't deal with THIS anymore", "this" being the situation between us. I am just exhausted and can't deal with it. But obviously I have to! At least I have to deal with myself and how I can change. I did find a CoDA group in my area that I am thinking of attending.

Thank you all again, this is such a great supportive place. I am so appreciative of all of your insights and suggestions.

whitelilly

Hi everyone, I'm also new here!
emilylou, similar thing happened to me...
My ex boyfriend is a recovering drug addict (2y clean) and recovering alcoholic (9 months sober). We met a couple of months ago, clicked, and he told me everything about his past. He said that some people had rejected him because of that so he wanted to know where he was standing right away. He was very confident about his recovery, so I assumed- this is past. I didn’t know how difficult that could be for them, and he didn’t present it as a problem. Everything happened very quickly, in a few days we became an item. He started very seriously, I was “his number one in life (red flag, I know, it should be his recovery)”, he “is a new person, wouldn’t do anything to hurt me and how happy he is to have found me”. He was texting and calling all the time. He wanted to settle down. In a month’s time he started to talk about our future, marriage, and so on. We were happy and in love. We spent time with our parents a lot. His parents were very happy that we were together, especially because he was so happy.

However… our lives were pretty different. His old friends were mostly some kind of addicts (drug or alcohol), so of course he didn’t go out with them anymore. He used to come home from work and spend time at home mostly, watching TV, occasionally having coffee with his best friend (clean) and then spent time with me. He was an alcoholic for a LONG time, so he probably couldn’t relax without some kind of stimulus. I have a hectic job, bunch of activities and friends (some of them are social drinkers, some of them don’t drink at all including me). He never wanted to spend time with my group of friends because, although he liked them and wanted to make new friends, he said bunch of people made him feel like he was suffocating. So I didn’t push. We once went out to the cinema – his idea, but didn’t get the tickets because it was too many people, so we went for a walk instead. When I asked him when we would go again, he said “We won’t go, there’s nothing to do there”. We went out a few times only, we were mostly at my house. I didn’t like it really, but he did, so I didn’t push.

Intimacy: at first we were completely like a new couple, but in a few weeks he started to avoid hugs, kisses and being alone. He preferred having coffee and cigarettes with my parents. When I tried to see if we could spend more time ALONE, he obviously avoided it. I really felt confused and rejected. One kiss at hello and one at goodbye and that was it for weeks. However, he kept treating me best, saying he loved me every day and making plans for the future and bonding with my dad. One day I tried talking about it again and he got an impression I wanted a break up and attacked me, saying I was making problems when there were no problems. I didn’t push. He seemed scared that I might break up (which honestly, I wouldn’t do no matter what he did). Ten days after that scene we were supposed to meet and he called me and told me “I think we should be friends first and later we will see”. He said the relationship was suffocating him and that he can’t invest 100% of himself because he needs to focus on living a clean life. I asked him why he pushed so hard then, we could have slowed down, he said that he was guided by his heart, not his reason. He wanted to stay friends and spend time together as before but only as friends. I also found out he was planning to look for a job abroad. I felt like I got a slap in the face. I decided to go cold turkey. When we met, I returned all his stuff and told him I loved him too much I could be just friends and listen him talking about new girls in his life. And I could never meet anyone new, although single, as long as I’m seeing him. He went angry said no one understood him. We split and haven’t been in touch ever since that day. His mum called me, told me she felt terrible and didn’t know what got into him. They talked and she said she understood him about not being ready, but didn’t approve his actions at all. We talked a few times after that, but it was very painful, for both of us. His parents are very supportive, thank God, his mum accompanies him to AA meetings.

I felt shocked and cried for days- at home, at work, while driving, eating, saying “I don’t understand…” I thought I was crazy, he pushed, and he pulled back… I feel better now, I don’t blame him, but it still hurts. Would I be with him again? I don’t think so, I wouldn’t trust him anymore because he was very inconsistent.

I’m writing this because finding forums and sites like this helped me to understand, so maybe this post helps someone. I had no idea what they might go through.

emilylou

Hi whitelily, thanks for your post!

I can definitely identify with the "couldn't relax without some kind of stimulus". I feel like that was the case with the person I was seeing, and I didn't really understand it until later. And also when you said you had no idea what they might go through - neither did I, as I said, until afterward when I did my own looking around for information. I also thought it was something that was in the past and that he was doing really well with.

It is/was very confusing, because there was such talk of the future at the beginning, and then all of a sudden it changed. I wish I knew then what I know now. I guess this is a learning experience.

I am the opposite with the friendship though, because our thing was much more short-lived and not as serious as yours, it sounds like, and I feel like now that I know more, I would never want to be a reason for his sobriety to suffer, so I feel I could be friends. But he has cut off communication, and it's really hurting me, because I didn't initiate any of this. I know we both have a lot of respect for one another, it's not a case of being mad at the other person. But I just don't understand why we can't communicate anymore, and I'm very hurt by it.

Babyblue

What I've learned with an ABF...

- nothing you do or not do will make his sobriety suffer. HE will make it suffer, HE will be the one to chose to pick up that drink or do that drug.

- don't use his recovery as an excuse to treat you like cr*p

- it is hard to tell where the recovered person's personality and actions come from their struggle with recovery or just their own personality. Meaning, maybe they aren't great guys to begin with.

- recovery is about learning to deal with life's ups and downs without picking up that drink/drug; have lots of compassion and empathy but you can't predict or hold yourself responsible entirely for the challenges a relationship brings.

- it isn't your job to make everything so soft and easy for them (for fear they may drink if something gets a bit 'rough') at the risk of giving up your own wants and needs

- Call it as you see it; if he is being a jerk, recognize that he is and don't allow yourself to be a doormat

- If he decided to enter into a relationship early on in recovery and realizes he shouldn't have, then it is his job to figure a mature way to get out of it. Don't blame yourself for the poor choices HE made early in recovery.

- Know your worth

Basically ladies, after a year of tiptoing and second guessing everything I did (because I didn't want to 'risk' his sobriety), I finally realized, it is just that, HIS sobriety.

Nothing I do or not do will change what choices he makes in response to his recovery. We don't have that much power.

emilylou

Thank you Babyblue, I know you're right! I am reading a book on codependence right now, and I know these are all things I need to learn. It's good to be reminded!

whitelilly

emilylou and babyblue

I can see that you are hurt, but who knows, maybe it would be harder for you to communicate with him, because you would be focused on him, and he would be focused on- him again. How would you feel if he started talking about "someone he met" in a few months? Would your feelings be filtered by then?
You feel bad now because he has made the decision about you and you didn't have any part in it (like in your whole story, and mine too, HE was in charge... ). I'm saying this, but from time to time I feel guilty for vanishing from his life completely.

This is from the point of view of his recovery, but if you see it from the point of view of relationships as give-take, the breakup makes sense. In a long run, you need a partner, not a protegee. My ex was and addict for a long time, from early puberty, and while most people were growing and developing, he was spinning around in that. He is a clean person now, but his actions and personality were defined by drugs and alcohol during that time and, like he told me when he broke up, he "doesn't know who he is, what kind of person he is without it"- so I definitely can't know it!
Like babyblue said: in life's ups and downs it is important to be strong enough to take it without relapsing!
He is still insecure about it and obviously needs time. His major turbulence since sobriety was our relationship - by default demanding some kind of responsibility, which he didn't know how/ didn't want to handle. So I definitely agree with you- it is better to let go, then feel guilty (not be the reason, but we WOULD feel guilty) for him relapsing.

But like you said, lesson learned - hopefully.

emilylou

I know this is probably for the best for both of us, but I get really attached to people and feel "abandoned" when this sort of thing happens. It's just another thing that I need to work on. I honestly feel like I'm in recovery now, and that this whole situation has helped me to see that I needed to be (for codependence).