Another Rage Last Night ...

Old 02-09-2011, 01:09 PM
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Another Rage Last Night ...

I want to get out but I'm exhausted. Each time I try to come up with a plan, there always seems to be something in the way and I usually stuff it down. Of course it rears its ugly head again, because of course this will never end UNLESS I do something to make a change.

The fact is, I'm the one who always has to worry about how the financial things will work out. I worry about whether I'm going to spend thousands of $$$ on a lawyer, when there are no kids involved and there should be no issues - really, other than figuring out what to do with the house.

His rages are bothering my mother (who has lung cancer and is just trying to get through her days) and my stepfather - who rent the basement apartment from us and who have my niece with them. He rages about them all the time. He rages about my sister, who asks to borrow money all the time (but DOES pay me back - he just doesn't believe she will). I get it - my family is an inconvenience to him and they're prepared to leave. He doesn't realize that the rent money makes life very comfortable for us, because he doesn't take care of the finances. He also doesn't realize that I HATE hearing him bash my family all the time, and if they do go, I WANT TO GO WITH THEM!

He says that if everyone would leave him alone, he'd stop drinking. But I know him. He will have to find another reason to drink and rave. He will continue to make my life miserable - in one form or another - and I don't want to be alone with him. I love being around my family - they're pretty normal and can at least discuss solutions. He wants nothing to do with solutions - he just wants to BASH. They're walking on eggshells all the time now though, because he rages if a door is slammed or something. My niece is a little wired sometimes, and she forgets. She's a good kid though, but he says terrible things about her. She overheard him saying something mean about her, after she'd spent 5 hours raking all the leaves in our yard and stuffing them in bags. It's people like him who damage the psyches of young people. I hate to be privy to that!

I've got to come up with a plan. I have to call his bluff and if he's not responsive to any solution, then I have to carry out a plan (which WILL be very difficult without his cooperation) and of course he will interfere with anything I try to do. I'm sure I've subconsciously known this all along, and that's why I haven't 'made good' with my threats to leave. It hurts my brain (and my whole body) even just trying to think about going through with this, but I'VE REALLY HAD ENOUGH - and Al Anon (he called it Avalon in his rage last night BTW ) is really helping me to see that I just need the COURAGE to make this change.
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Old 02-09-2011, 01:29 PM
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Ok...let's think down to earth here.

Re a plan...who's got the money? Does he have access to your money? Can you stash some away without him knowing? Who is on the lease and when does it expire? Where can you go?

You *can* do this. We can help you think it through, if you like. Dealing with his rages and blameshifting...it's no way to live. You deserve sanity, at the very least, and RESPECT from your partner.
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Old 02-09-2011, 01:33 PM
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What about this:

1. have your parents and sister find a place big enough for all of you.

2. Rent it.

Stash some money and make your getaway with them.

(I don't understand why the rest of your family is willing to live like that. They are not married to him like you are).
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Old 02-09-2011, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by nodaybut2day View Post
Dealing with his rages and blameshifting...it's no way to live. You deserve sanity, at the very least, and RESPECT from your partner.
Thank you! Yes - it's blameshifting - CONSTANT blameshifting, so that he doesn't have to acknowledge or account for his behaviour. HE goes to work all the time and that gives him the license to do WHATEVER HE WANTS. It's HIS house, and HE'S the boss. He makes that clear all the time and yells it loud enough for the people downstairs to hear. He doesn't care if my mother may be sleeping.

I do need help. In reality - there should be no problem with everything being 50/50. We have 2 trucks (although one is way newer and he'd make me take the older one if I didn't want a fight). We have 2 big screen TVs. We have 2 of everything. It just has to be separated. We have about $60k equity in our house, which means that I could get at least $30k, in theory, but that would mean refinancing the house and paying off debt, which would leave me with less, but I'd STILL have something. I'm not sure that the bank would let him keep the mortgage with his salary alone, if I were to leave. I'm not sure how that works. He'd have a higher mortgage minus the extra $3200. a month from all of us that would normally be there. I'm really stumped at how to approach this.

And - of course there is the problem with him not agreeing to my leaving, once he realizes that he will be stuck with this huge home and only his income to support it, unless he gets a tenant (and has to deal with their crap - and also have to learn how to do taxes and things like that, etc.) He will have to do all the stuff that I do (all the things that he says I never do, because his favorite blameshifting rage (when he's not talking about my family) is to tell me over and over again that I never do anything, but I do. I run the whole operation. He's only responsible for his 9-5 shift, drinking, eating and sleeping.

Some help would be most appreciated. I've spoken with my mother who is ready to do whatever I decide. She needs some peace too.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:09 PM
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Just a thought..how about kicking his arse to the curb if you can get him out that is? With all that abuse, the police could be involved, an AVO put in place so that he can't go near any of you within 100 meteres. Voila, problem solved. But I know, that's easier said than done. My exAH was a rager like yours is. Eventually I had to get the police involved because the abuse escalated when I said I wanted to separate. I feel for you and your family and I wish you luck with your plan. That's no way to live for any of you.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:13 PM
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honey, it's NOT YOUR JOB to figure out he will make the payments and learn the tax rules and deal with a frustrating tenant. NOT your job. Your job is to get FREE of him.

Take a TV, a truck, a vcr, a bed, a chair, and Go.

Sort out the details later. The details that aren't your responsibility are keeping you there, tied up with him.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Floss View Post
Just a thought..how about kicking his arse to the curb if you can get him out that is? With all that abuse, the police could be involved, an AVO put in place so that he can't go near any of you within 100 meteres. Voila, problem solved. But I know, that's easier said than done. My exAH was a rager like yours is. Eventually I had to get the police involved because the abuse escalated when I said I wanted to separate. I feel for you and your family and I wish you luck with your plan. That's no way to live for any of you.
Yes - he's a RAGER and it's HIS house. He'd fight me tooth and nail. He'd even die doing it for 'the cause'. The cause is his sense of entitlement and his belief that HE has made everything happen. (which is so far from the truth - I did it almost exclusively on my own - he contributed his salary and signed on the dotted line).
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:23 PM
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And - of course there is the problem with him not agreeing to my leaving, once he realizes that he will be stuck with this huge home and only his income to support it, unless he gets a tenant (and has to deal with their crap - and also have to learn how to do taxes and things like that, etc.)

He doesn't have to agree. It is NOT his choice. If you are financially able to make it without him and your mother is on board, then I don't see a problem. He can't stop you from leaving and if he can't afford the house on his own, or doesn't know how to do things on his own, that's not your problem.

My first ex was a control freak. When I left, he had all these ideas in his head about how he was going to get everything and I was going to be penniless and rue the day I left him. Well, he quickly found out that the laws don't work that way and he can rage and fight and be willing to die for 'the cause' all he wants, but in the end, he doesn't have any more rights in the matter than I do.

He's trying to intimidate you into staying right where you are. Don't let him do it.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by stella27 View Post
honey, it's NOT YOUR JOB to figure out he will make the payments and learn the tax rules and deal with a frustrating tenant. NOT your job. Your job is to get FREE of him.

Take a TV, a truck, a vcr, a bed, a chair, and Go.

Sort out the details later. The details that aren't your responsibility are keeping you there, tied up with him.
Yes - you're absolutely right - except for the fact that I need to get my equity out of the house. Most of that equity is mine - from inheritences, etc. but I'm willing to go 50/50 because it's not only the law - but it's the way I believe. As far as I'm concerned, he drank all of his money away.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:34 PM
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“Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple.” - Dr. Seuss quote

You don't have to figure everything out before you take a step. His agreement is not necessary. You only need to do one thing right now. There is only one small step to take.

Go talk to a lawyer.

Then you will find out what the next step is. Then do that. And then the next step will be clear. Do that thing - and on and on.

Your lawyer will help you determine the next step and how to make that happen. You can do this without uttering one more word to your husband. The lawyers and the courts will work out the details. They will get your equity.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:35 PM
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If the law says 50/50, then you'll get 50/50. The most imperative thing right now is to get out and get yourself and your mother set up somewhere away from him. All the details can be worked out later through legal counsel, but you have to take that first step.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:37 PM
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Thank you! Yes - it's blameshifting - CONSTANT blameshifting, so that he doesn't have to acknowledge or account for his behaviour. HE goes to work all the time and that gives him the license to do WHATEVER HE WANTS. It's HIS house, and HE'S the boss. He makes that clear all the time and yells it loud enough for the people downstairs to hear. He doesn't care if my mother may be sleeping.
he isn't going to accept responsibility. ever.

I do need help. In reality - there should be no problem with everything being 50/50. We have 2 trucks (although one is way newer and he'd make me take the older one if I didn't want a fight). We have 2 big screen TVs. We have 2 of everything. It just has to be separated. We have about $60k equity in our house, which means that I could get at least $30k, in theory, but that would mean refinancing the house and paying off debt, which would leave me with less, but I'd STILL have something.
have you thought of seeing a lawyer? seeing one just to get information o your position, finding out how it would be affected if you left, leaving most things behind, is there a way of having "stuff" released after moving? In the end it is just stuff, is it worth continuing being scared and trapped for the sake of an old TV?

I'm not sure that the bank would let him keep the mortgage with his salary alone, if I were to leave. I'm not sure how that works. He'd have a higher mortgage minus the extra $3200. a month from all of us that would normally be there. I'm really stumped at how to approach this.
his problem, stemming entirely from his treatment of you over the years, you don't need to approach this, it's his to deal with.

And - of course there is the problem with him not agreeing to my leaving,

this is really important ((trying)): you are not a slave or a prisoner, you are a free human being. He does not have to agree to you leaving, legally, morally, whateverly, he does not have to be happy about it, in fact he does not even have to know about it before-hand, because you are a free human being. You are not legally-bound to get his agreement or consent or even to tell him. I am not telling you to leave him, but I am asking you to try and get your head round the fact that you are allowed to do so whether he agrees or not. Please ring the DV people, they can help you with this stuff, just information gathering again, doesn't commit you to anything, it's just a case of empowering yourself with knowledge.

I don't think he will
I don't think he will either, for all manner of reasons, which is why I think it is pointless trying to get him to agree, and in fact I think it might be better if he didn't know at all before-hand, he will rage either way, do you need to be there when he does? what would that accomplish?

once he realizes that he will be stuck with this huge home and only his income to support it, unless he gets a tenant (and has to deal with their crap - and also have to learn how to do taxes and things like that, etc.) He will have to do all the stuff that I do (all the things that he says I never do, because his favorite blameshifting rage (when he's not talking about my family) is to tell me over and over again that I never do anything, but I do. I run the whole operation. He's only responsible for his 9-5 shift, drinking, eating and sleeping.
yes he will, or not, that is up to him, it will not be your responsibility or care anymore, you don't have to worry about how he will cope, what he will have to think about, he is an adult, he can figure this stuff out.

Some help would be most appreciated. I've spoken with my mother who is ready to do whatever I decide. She needs some peace too.
that is great, you won't be on your own, you will both have peace and some support.
please, honey ring the DV people, and a lawyer, just so you're not spinning round with waht-ifs and how-can-I etc, you'll have real information that you can contemplate and make your own decisions on.
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Old 02-09-2011, 02:54 PM
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Ok.. time to think smart.

Contact a DV organisation and tell them what's happening. Tell family/friends. Next time he 'rages', the next time you are in any way fearful and before it escalates..get to somewhere safe and call the Police. Alert the Police to your fear of him. Have him removed. Have a 24hr locksmith's number on hand and the money to pay them. Get the locks changed and whatever bolts are necessary to keep him out. I'm not sure of the situation regarding who owns/rents/leases/whatever your home.. but do what ever you need to ensure he can't come back. Get a lawyer if necessary to get an injunction to prevent him coming within a mile of you or contacting you.

This is crazy.. you see that right?

Tx
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Old 02-09-2011, 04:00 PM
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Hugs, Tryintosmile. It certainly seems overwhelming when looking at the entire picture. Making a "To Do" list and looking at just the next item is so helpful in making it feel do-able.

Contacting a domestic violence resource can help you figure out how to get away safely - or if there are options to get him away - and they can help you make a safety plan - they're not necessarily the same thing. They can help you get a protective order against him. They can point you to family law lawyers. I think it's important to note here, that they won't make you do any of this. If you're not ready to take a certain step, they'll support you with your decision and help you with other aspects of staying safe.

Please do listen to your instincts. You know what he's like and what asking him to leave vs. you leaving would play out like. But you don't have to do this alone. And as great and as supportive as your Mom is, you may need more help to stay safe.

Stay safe. Wishing you peace and continued strength.
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Old 02-09-2011, 05:24 PM
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My alcoholic father kept my family prisoner for over 5 years by threatening to kill us all and burn down the house if my mother left him.

As his raging and abuse continued to grow worse she finally consulted an attorney and got a restraining order and hired a moving truck while the law stood by and loaded all of our belongings and most of the furniture (to keep it out of the coming flames).

He didn't kill us...didn't stop drinking either until it put him in the grave. My mother leaving was the best thing she ever did for us kids.
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Old 02-09-2011, 05:35 PM
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One step at a time.

Step One: Pick up the phone and schedule a free consultation with two or three different lawyers, preferably ones that have been referred by friends and associates.

^^^
Do this now. It's Step One. It's all you have to do right now.
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Old 02-09-2011, 06:12 PM
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+100 on what they all said.

There is no time like the present. You have made the decision. There is no better time. It will not be easier.

There is no "fault". you don't have to "prove" anything.

You go get a lawyer, put the WHOLE retainer on a credit card. The entire thing. If the lawyer doesn't take cards, go the bank and get a cash advance on the entire amount. It doesn't matter. It will all work out in the end. He will be splitting your lawyer fees 50/50. Just like the equity in the house, when it sells. And the lawyer can help you legally force him OUT. NOW.

Don't fret the details. I can tell you I sweated out the details, made exit strategies one after another. 20 years later I was still trying to figure out when and how.

Here is the when and how: When: NOW. How: Go lawyer up. That is the way it is done.

don't think it through too much. You've already done that, and come to the only reasonable conclusion. You know he will lie, manipulate, exaggerate and do what he darn well wants to, regardless of your desires. So, you should do what you darn well want to.
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Old 02-09-2011, 06:27 PM
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I am sorry you are going through this. From your posts it seems to me that you have a very close, loving relationship with your mother and family. As you said you both deserve peace. Please don't let the time you have left with her be overshadowed by this cruel, selfish individual.
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Old 02-09-2011, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by tallulah View Post

This is crazy.. you see that right?

Tx

YES!

UPDATE:

I confront him when he gets home. I tell him that I can't go through the drunken rages any longer. That they're destroying me and I'm not living with them for the rest of my life.

He apologizes. Says it's all his fault. Says that he's been under a lot of stress at work.
I tell him - I'm sorry that he's under stress but he's gotta stop taking it out on ME. I tell him that 'ONE MORE RAGE and I'm going to see a lawyer'.
He says - I don't want to be like that. I'm sorry, I'm just being stupid.
I say - well you know that when you get drunk, you get like that. I ask - 'how are you going to stop yourself from raging if you don't try to get yourself healthy? You're a sick man and you need a lot of help.
He says - 'I'm going to bed shortly and am just having a few drinks. I promise I'm not going to do that anymore.' (A few drinks is like 8 shots instead of 16).

He asks me some questions on how he can get better. About things he needs to let go of that are not that important. Like he really wants to try but he doesn't know how. I am getting sucked in - to the A (pretending to care).

I go downstairs and have a talk with my mother. I tell her what he's said. I tell her not to worry - that I will deal with it.

My mother sends me this e-mail:

His pattern does keep you hooked in. always apologies and promises.

You used to have an escalation graph you used in counselling others. I think you helped more than a few women, didn't you?

hope you have the strength to break away if he rages again,

but I know it won't be easy.

I'm glad you told him we want out. That's the first time he's heard it, and he won't forget it.


I come back upstairs and he's already drunk. He tells me to 'put down the computer'' - he has a question for me. I tell him - 'NO - you're not making demands of me'. He says he's not making demands - 'just put the f*ing computer down because I have a question for you' (nice guy - turned bad within 2 hours).

He starts telling me how much he loves my niece (even more than his own daughters - which is a lie). I realize that he's trying to manipulate me because if he were to say my niece had to go back to her mother (my sister who has issues - my mother has mostly been her caregiver) - my mother would leave, and I might too. I don't want to be alone with him anymore.

I'm listening to him and realizing that there IS a pattern - a cycle - words he uses to try to get himself back in the good graces. I'M FINALLY seeing my own stupid cycle of abuse. I'm watching - instead of reacting. What a concept!

I remind him that I've told him 'ONE MORE RAGE' and he says 'well then get the f*ck out and take 'your parts' (meaning my family) with you'. I tell him that I will. Then he starts raging - asking me over and over again 'How many times do you wake up in the morning and KNOW THAT I AM RIGHT?' How many times - just tell me - how many times'? On deaf ears I say - I will never say that to myself until I know who you are as a sober person and you have a lot of work to do on yourself before I can even know if you were right about anything. Finally, he storms off to bed.

Okay so I already know that this is a Jekyll/Hyde situation and when he feels threatened, he gets scary. He does NOT like to see me take any form of control or maintain the courage of my convictions, but I'm getting stronger, because of all of you amazing people here and going to Al Anon, and it's scaring him.

So - I AM calling the DV number tomorrow - that was given to me at the first Al Anon meeting. I'm going to make an appointment to talk with someone there about this situation. I AM FEARFUL - about leaving. I am afraid of what he would do. If I were willing to give up this beautiful home, he can't tell people that I left all of this because I am in the wrong. He will have to deal with the fact that it is because he is, and that would be too hard for him to take. I am afraid that he will either destroy my life or his, if I go through with this.

Sorry this is long. I don't expect everyone to read this - but I need to write it, before I allow myself to forget it, the way I always end up doing.
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:01 PM
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That WAS the "one more rage", wasn't it? I mean, you told him, he did it anyway, and now you are going to follow through on what you said, correct?

You're not going to say, "this one doesn't count, because I just told him and he didn't have time to process it," are you?

Your mom is right, you KNOW what's the right thing to do now.
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