goldengirl3

I have a question - your guys' opinion. I was watching this week's episode of Intervention about a girl doing some sort of pills. She and her boyfriend did them together and also stole things and returned things at stores together in order to make money for the pills. She professed how much she loved her boyfriend.

They showed her sister saying that she didn't think that it was real love.

I see that a lot on these shows. Why do people feel that way? I understand they are looking at it as they are just addicts enabling each other. But addicts still have feelings too.

Just like to hear your guys's thoughts?

LexieCat

Well, I think addiction pretty much blocks the addict from feeling "real love"--which is a concern for the other person's well-being, wanting them to grow as a person, sincere caring about them as whole human beings. Addicts are best at feeding off each other's drama and crises--which, to them, FEELS like love, but is at best a pale imitation.

goldengirl3

Ahhhhhh. I see. Thanks LexieCat.

fourmaggie

In their addiction habits...they dont love themselves, so how can they love anybody else?

barb dwyer

We don't know how sick their upbringing was.

You would have thought *I* had everything.

But when the doorshut - it was another world altogether.

So without knowing what their inner life as young YOUNG children was -
it's hard to fathom what formed the adult that's in front of us.

Woo.
Philosophical moment, there.

When people are in the depths of their disease
they're mentally il.
Insane.
There's no figuring that stuff out.

Unless one is going to go insane to find them.

They're every bit as insane and dimented
as the guy who shaves off his eyebrows
and goes and shoots up a McDonalds.

There's no figuring that stuff out.

The best we can do -
is learn to recognize what's developing
and find a way to get them out of harm's way.

Before they become...the harm manifest.

*looks at coffee cup*

wow.
that's some good coffee.

sailorjohn

Immature love says: 'I love you because I need you.' Mature love says 'I need you because I love you.'
Erich Fromm


Love based on need-for an adult-can't be a good thing.

brokenheartfool

Agrees with Lexie.

I think in addiction, the partners receive at best crumbs. Why settle for crumbs when you want the whole cake?

keepinon

My daughter and her abusive ABF "loved" each other so much..they stole together, shot up together, lived on couches together..what it really was , was a super sick attraction to train wrecks, self destructive tendencies, and co dependency beyond words...love..hardly..when you are that sick, how can you "love" someone.Addicts USE each other to get their needs met and call it love because they think it is.

goldengirl3

Do you think that's because that is what they learned what love is? Or it's just part of addiction?

LexieCat

You mean, were they that way before the addiction? Maybe somewhat--most addicts tend to be self-centered by nature--that's part of what the addiction satisfies. I don't think it means they had to grow up in a loveless home or anything (though some do). I do know that the addiction ramps up the self-seeking behavior.

brokenheartfool

Just gotta tell you lexie--

your posts are so ON. You so GET IT.
You must have done a tremendous amount of work on yourself and you really have it together, better than most people who have no idea of what an alcohol problem is.
You're so self-aware!

LexieCat

If I am, it's because I did it the hard way. I'm getting better, though--sometimes I take people's word for it!

keepinon

I can just say in my case..my daughter grew up adored,beloved, in a home with a mom and dad who catered to her every need (part of the problem right there) We are middle class and have a very good relationship..I was actually the educator for the Women's Shelter here and put together our teen dating violence program..so I don't think she got that part from us..she was always a thrillseeker in every way..she loved that outlaw romantic sh*% for sure..she loved to feel "protected" by being with violent people.. she thought no one would mess w/ her if she was w/ a bada%%..don't think she thought he would wind up controlling and beating her..

wicked

you know lexie, i am not going to call it the hard way.
hmmm what is something more PC or learned.
Earned Wisdom.
Got my PhD.

:ghug3

fourmaggie

wow.. moment there

can the self-centered addict change this behaviour...? *hummmm, thinking out loud*

LexieCat

That's pretty much what the Twelve Steps are designed to do. I'd say yes. Not to say all of them (or even most of them) do, but those who work a serious program do. Not with perfection, but most people slip into self-centeredness once in awhile...

StarCat

From what I understand, some can, and some can't.

There is a man at work who has helped me a lot with this whole thing, he is a giant proponent of AA, and according to him he was selfish as they come. Now he's the most thoughtful, helpful, giving person I know.

But he has a program (AA), a Higher Power, and will to stay sober and live.

Also, from what I gather, alcoholics who have an issue to begin with will need to work on that issue as well when they're sober to be truly better. You take the alcohol away from a drunken horse thief, you've still got is a horse thief.

In short, sometimes alcohol magnifies a minor issue and the issue will disappear once the alcohol goes away, and sometimes alcohol masks a major issue that will still remain once the alcohol goes away.
You can't tell if the alcoholic's behavior is hidden behind wrapping paper or showing through cellophane until the alcoholic drunken exterior is gone and you see what you're left with.

kiki5711

Yes! well said!

and in their own "strange" world as it is, to them it's love.

SoloMio

I held off reading that GREAT book Women Who Love Too Much because I didn't think it applied to me. In my mind--probably swayed by what AH told me--I didn't love ENOUGH. I didn't think I expressed love enough, doted enough, loved enough to get over, under and through an alcoholic family life.

When I finally did read it, I thought "OMG. That's me." That book literally changed my life.

In any case, alcohol addiction or any kind of addiction makes a charade of love, because it creates an ego-centric form of love. If you have to lie, manipulate and hurt the person you "love" in order to get what you want, that's clearly not love.

As for us, if we expect our partner to be everything we want them to be to fill holes in our hearts that are there because we have never integrated our selves, that's clearly not love.

fourmaggie

humm, now you guys really have me thinking....A's EGO is so ummm STRONG, even his own sponsor found it HARD to deal with...*thinking out loud again*

I never wanted anything from the A, just to be himself..and well, this is what i got... i ran, FAST...