SoloMio

OK, so as I posted several days ago, AH DID "surprise" me with a trip to Florida to see my brother.

I actually had a great time. There was only one fairly major alcoholic "event"--when we were going to go (the four of us: AH, my brother and SIL) to dinner at the hotel AH and I were staying at.

Won't go into the details, but dinner did not happen bc AH pounded vodka all afternoon. He kind of showed his true A colors to brother/SIL. While he was passed out in the car, I did say to brother/SIL how concerned I am about his drinking, stating that he has to really stop.

They said, "Yeah, or just drink less."

The next day my brother told me (while AH was out at the pool pounding more vodka) that I am not a very good governor--that his wife "governs" him better--essentially telling me that his drinking too much is my fault, and I should be reining him in.

I wanted to say "Yeah, but you're probably more easily governed"--meaning brother is NOT alcoholic and would actually entertain guidance from his wife, but AH is. But I figured he wouldn't understand so I just kind of shrugged it off.

The kicker is, my brother lived in the same alcoholic home that I did growing up. It's not that he's clueless about alcoholism--but maybe he is.

I guess I'm just a tad defensive because my kids have alluded to the same thing--that AH would be able to drink moderately if I'd just talk to him. So, when the time comes that I just walk away, they are not going to understand because from their POV, their fun-loving-when-drunk dad just has to tone it down a bit. My kids actually like AH better when he's got a small buzz on because he's less somber.

Is the Moderation Myth a source of misunderstanding for many of you guys in terms of how your families see the "problem"?

courageouscrane

Sorry you had to deal with that! You deserve to be defensive, and NO, it is NOT YOUR FAULT. You CANNOT control his drinking. And, yes, the Moderation Myth is definitely a source of misunderstanding.

I think one reason that many "outsiders" think moderation is possible is because a) they don't have experience with alcoholic drinking; b) the A does such a good job of hiding their behavior that others don't know the extent of the drinking; c) they don't want to see the alcoholism/recognize it, and just want to blame others; d) view something else as a the problem, and accept the alcohol abuse.

I have the same issue with my ABF's family. His mom's fridge is always STOCKED with beer whenever he comes to town. His mom doesn't drink. Because of a combination of the above reasons, his beer drinking is never an issue for her, even when he gets tipsy. She feels guilty about a messy divorce when ABF was young, and will do anything for her baby boy.

Similarly, the moderation dialogue is such a deceptive one. My ABF has been wanting to "not drink like an alcoholic" for the past year. Of course, I know this is not possible, but get stuck wanting to be supportive of his efforts to change. I read something once, that you can turn a cucumber into a pickle, but you can't turn a pickle into a cucumber. I guess that's what separates As from the rest of us, and something that lots of people don't seem to get. Frustrating!

JenT1968

A grown up dosesn't have to be reminded if their alcohol intake is getting too much for them to remain conscious. Women are not the governers of their husband's behaviour. IMO opinion that dynamic is a little off, and I wonder why your brother is happy to lay responsibility for being his booze-monitor onto his wife? and really who wants that job?

maybe your H could drink less? there is no way to truely know what is going on in his head - none. but whether it is a compulsion that is very hard to fight or a straight up choice is irrelevant. what is relevant is that he drinks the way he drinks, and you are unhappy with the effects of that.

You don't have to convince the wider public including your family that he is a) a real alcoholic and b) the only way forward is for him to stop drinking.

If you're anything like me you may have alluded to his drinking once or twice (every day for YEARS) and it made no difference.

There was a time when if ex had moderated his drinking I'd have been over-the-moon, that was all I wanted, him to stop drinking like an alcoholic, I didn't care how he did it or why: AA, moderation management, life-ring, counselling, finding god, playing more sports, whatever. AFter years of him lying I realised that for ME to be happy to stay with THIS MAN, he would have to stop drinking completely and embrace some serious behaviour and attitude altering therapies. Moderation wasn't going to cut it any more for me because I had seen it fail so often and I knew I would always carry anxiety of that, every time he opened a can, popped out for half an hour, had the kids on his own.

that continuing anxiety wasn't worth it for me.

of course he needs to drink less, for some people the only way of drinking less is to drink none. I don't think we can say for sure that moderation is a myth for everyone, and there's no way to know if someone even that we know very well could do that. We can, however, work out what we are happy to live with and that is entirely valid. what do you want to live with Sole?

my old counsellor told me of a wealth of research that has shown some success with helping youngsters moderate their drinking to a level they are happy with, she said the research showed that the further away you are from being a teenager, the less good the results are (I haven't read the research, so take it with a pinch of salt but she was also a university lecturer on addiction and had worked in many settings with people with addictions) but within even the teen groups there were many, many people who failed with this (and unfortunately any approach including abstinence).

My ex went to a drug and alcohol counselling centre at one point and was merrily telling all and sundry how hard it was, how they really made you think and it was impossible to pull the wool over the counsellors eye's, and although everything wasn't great yet he thought he was getting there and doing much better, and he'd turn round to me and say "aren't I?" and I felt like both a complete fraud because I'd nod "supportively" and a total heel because I couldn't see any diffference at all in his drinking.

oh! happy days!

coyote21

If you've ever heard of "Moderation Management", maybe you remember the founder being arrested and sent to prison for murdering a guy and his 12yo daughter back in 2000.

You could print out copies of this and hand it to whom ever is preaching "moderation"?

Arrest trips up 'moderate drinking' crusader's cause

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

SoloMio

Thanks, Coyote--not a bad idea. I hadn't heard about this tragedy.

ElegantlyWasted

The problem is that some moderate drinkers are not alcoholics. Alcoholics drinking patters/ what they get out of it is different from "normal drinkers". Accordingly normal drinkers have no real insight into the "alcoholic" mindset; unless they are treatment pros or self educated. Its a natural conclusion for most to think; just moderate your consumption and your cool. On my journey I've come to the conclusion that some people just should not drink; they all fall under my understanding of the term "alcoholic". Do what is in you best interests; take care of yourself. People who should not drink need to figure it out for themselves. You may be able to help; but, again, make sure you are taking care of your own needs.

johnnymau

*raises hand*

Awesome turn of phrase, Jen!

LexieCat

Actually, Coyote, I'm VERY familiar with Audrey's story because I was active in MM for four and a half years.

Audrey's story isn't about the dangers of moderation, particularly--she had quit MM because she knew she couldn't moderate. She was in AA when she drove drunk and killed the victims.

So, one could as easily say that AA causes people to drive drunk and to kill others. Obviously, not true.

ALCOHOLISM does it. And, in my experience, the vast majority of people in MM are NOT able to moderate--in the years I've been around it, I know a handful of people (who are not alcoholics but were overdrinking) who successfully achieved longterm moderate drinking. It CAN happen, but not for people who are alcoholics.

LaTeeDa

Back to the OP's question.

For me, I had to reach a point (thanks to my wonderful therapist) where I was able to define what was acceptable and not acceptable in my life. When I got to that stage, surprisingly, drinking became of lesser importance. It became about the behavior. He could cut back, or even quit drinking altogether (as happened many times) and it just didn't matter. As long as he was immature, irresponsible, disrespectful, and distant, I didn't want him as a partner. Drinking or not. It became about me, my life, and the limited time I have allotted to me on this planet. Other people are welcome to have their own opinions and beliefs, but I get the final say in how I want to spend my life. (and who I want to spend it with)

L

zrx1200R

From my experience with an alcoholic wife:

She tried "moderation" because she didn't have a problem. And of course it didn't work. But no amount of me telling her this made one darn bit of difference.

Since I drew the line in the sand, she has done her "best" to quit. She hasn't quit. She continued drinking in small amounts, thinking none of us knew. But we did.

The only way is to stop drinking. And you can't make them stop. How many "last chances" have you given? How many ultimatums? They didn't work, or he wound not be passed out in the car.

A grown man passed out in a car is a drunk. Period. There is no moderation there. Some of us drink too much and decide never again. For me it was easy. I decided I was all grown up and I didn't need to do that. So I don't and haven't in 20+ years.

You alcoholic husband will continue drinking until something changes his mind and he chooses to stop. It could be a DUI. Could be a drunken accident or episode. Could be you moving or throwing his butt out. But talking nicely won't do a darn thing.

And from what you've described, he is incapable of "moderating" his drinking.

But to answer the original question of how did I handle it?
When my wife recently "fessed" up about her drinking a "small" amount, I just asked her how it worked out for her. I reminded her of the things she did when she had just a small amount, and that it also damaged the trust she was trying to build after being slopping drunk for 10 years. I reminded her she gave us all her word she would stop, and that at some point she had to go to the store, pick it up, put it in the cart, put it on the belt, pay for it, open it, drink it, hide it, cover up her breath, and then lie about it. And we knew the second she walked in the door. And just because she is sorry doesn't mean we will forget. I told her we are out of the forgetting business now. She quacked a line about how she had to figure this out for herself, and now she knows she can't drink at all.

I think she might have finally figured out she can not moderate. And it appears she has been sober now for close to 12 days.

Drunks can't drink. Rocks can't swim. Dallas Cowboys can't get in the Superbowl. Some things are just the way they are and you can't wish it any different.