ONE more scapegoat game!!!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
ONE more scapegoat game!!!
Friday night, I spoke to my A about his moving out in a calm and loving way. He had made some realizations, was feeling grateful, saw some things clearly.
He apologized for having been going to the bar regularly, having realized, he said how that might make me feel. It feels careless in several ways, but in my world, it is primarily about the women. The faithfulness is untested, and as far as I am concerned he is testing the water there. Many of his ex FWB hang out there, the women he cheated lied and messed with me with are there, or will be.
The drinking is a whole other story, but as he says, that is his homework, not mine. Maybe that is true, but, I still have my sons emotional protection to consider.
After he spoke about things for awhile, I presented the case for his moving out lovingly, saying he had never really, since he drank since he was a teenager, had the breaking out on his own experience that most people experience. HE feels, I said, I thought, Like he was doing this recovery for us, not him, and when he has a setback, he feels angry at me, since he feels he is letting me down, not himself. I said,what if I was out of the equation. WHat if you built a life FOR yourself, BY yourself...then you could celebrate your victories for yourself, and your setbacks would not have my disappointment in the mix. You would just have to answer to you.
He kind of liked what he heard, and we agreed it would be an ongoing conversation.
The next morning he was rude, aggressive and abusive before he left for work, He did not own that, with a weak apology thrown in to cover his a**
When our son was gone next evening at grandmas, he called me from the car, started talking about him moving out again, only this time, with rancor and sarcasm, and projection.
We angrily agreed that it would be best.
Since he has been of treatment out for 4 months, I have not gone to a bar alone, to be social or whatever. I have gone to music venues WITH him, to friends homes w alcohol WITH him.
I chose not to go to bars to see my friends, since I thought it would mess him up.
Since he had been spending 5 of 7 nights a wk at his old haunt, after we argued, my friend called and asked me to go to a bar to see her play music. I said maybe. HE called and asked what he could expect for the night? Was I going out? would I be drinking. (I have not touched a drop since before he quit. Its been 5 months for me, and I dont even care.)
I said, of course I wont drink. I dont want to, but I was thinking of going to the ____ for 2 hours to see my friend play.
20 minutes went by, then he called FROM THE BAR. HE was having a panic attack, said that my going out to a bar was putting a knot in HIS stomach. HE felt unsteady, he said. He could barely breath.
I kind of did not care about going out. I finally just said, OK. I wont go. I dont care, anyway. Maybe Ill see a movie, or watch TV.
He was oscillating wildly between insisting that I do what I want, and letting me know how it was breaking his mind if I were to go.
He sped home at high speed, I was halfway getting ready to go out, but stopped halfway through. When he came in, he searched my face, accused me of having put on makeup and then washed it off (I had not, but even if I had, that was no secret...). He demanded to see if I had shaved my legs. He kept insisting that I go, then trying to "catch" me in a lie about getting ready to go. I stated calmly that there was no deception, as I had told him I might go, then changed my mind. I also stated clearly that I had no desire to put him into a state of panic by going out. I did not want to make him feel that way. I asked him if he was able, at all to see that this was a bit of why I dont like him going to the bar so often, with the past and all, and with him being in recovery.
He was all paranoid, and suspicious. He searched through my phone, saw nothing. He kept insisting that he had caught me in the middle of some lie.
I did not know what to do. I was so angry. I just stayed there, and so did he. Right before we fell asleep, after a speechless 4 hours, he said, "I am sorry I am so crazy"
Next morning, he cleaned the first floor, did laundry.
He was distant, but focused. He went to the coffeeshop, then to a meeting.
As usual, the meeting brought him home with gratitude and clarity.
BUT, he was stil acting suspicious.
I was still angry. He had ruined my day from moment one, til I slept.
Right before he went upstairs to go to bed, he said, "I am just going to keep being a sober person. I am going to keep praying for strength. Even if you try to crush me by not going out and doing what you want to do...and trying to make me feel guilty for it."
I was speechless. I went to bed, and, again, right before sleeping he said, "I am sorry I ruined your day yesterday. I am over that now. Sorry I am so crazy. "
I just laid there.
This is a sober person!! There is no alcohol at play, here. He is menatlly unstable. and he wont take his meds.
I feel like my only recourse is to trick him into thinking that movingout is his idea, that he has to do it to "escape me"...
I am clear that he is having paranoia, that what he is doing is abusive.
I am clear that he needs to go.
I am unclear if I am ready to handle the fallout. The blame, the scapegoating, the potential relapse that he will definitely pin on me.
I am keeping my own hands tied, out of fear of feeling like I did not tolerate anough, and I know its a crock of sh*t.
But, I dount my own ability to shoulder the consquences of just putting him out. Its not like he will see that life is hard, that he had it pretty great here, with us. Its not like he is going to see that I was on his side.
I will just be alone with my son, again, and I dread being consumed with the sorrow and lonlieness. The guilt and the pain. The helplessness of wondering where he is, if he is going over the edge.
Maybe he needs to go over the edge, without me to blame, but, I think he will blame me no matter what.
Obviously, I have some unhealed issues about being falsely blamed.
My father died after abusing me for years, and I was a preteen. My mother, who had just become a serious drunk blamed me for his death.
I have been in therapy for it for years. I have tried to resolve this issue.
I dont tell alot of people about that. I dont wallow in victimization over it, but I do suppose I have some PTSD about being blamed and scapegoated.
I know what I have to do. And I know the world will not collapse if I do it. But my mind will really do a number on me if he falls apart, and even if he moves on and finds some great girl who understands him, and approaches his issues with compassion instead of venom.
OK. I beared the fears of my soul. Thanks for listening.
He apologized for having been going to the bar regularly, having realized, he said how that might make me feel. It feels careless in several ways, but in my world, it is primarily about the women. The faithfulness is untested, and as far as I am concerned he is testing the water there. Many of his ex FWB hang out there, the women he cheated lied and messed with me with are there, or will be.
The drinking is a whole other story, but as he says, that is his homework, not mine. Maybe that is true, but, I still have my sons emotional protection to consider.
After he spoke about things for awhile, I presented the case for his moving out lovingly, saying he had never really, since he drank since he was a teenager, had the breaking out on his own experience that most people experience. HE feels, I said, I thought, Like he was doing this recovery for us, not him, and when he has a setback, he feels angry at me, since he feels he is letting me down, not himself. I said,what if I was out of the equation. WHat if you built a life FOR yourself, BY yourself...then you could celebrate your victories for yourself, and your setbacks would not have my disappointment in the mix. You would just have to answer to you.
He kind of liked what he heard, and we agreed it would be an ongoing conversation.
The next morning he was rude, aggressive and abusive before he left for work, He did not own that, with a weak apology thrown in to cover his a**
When our son was gone next evening at grandmas, he called me from the car, started talking about him moving out again, only this time, with rancor and sarcasm, and projection.
We angrily agreed that it would be best.
Since he has been of treatment out for 4 months, I have not gone to a bar alone, to be social or whatever. I have gone to music venues WITH him, to friends homes w alcohol WITH him.
I chose not to go to bars to see my friends, since I thought it would mess him up.
Since he had been spending 5 of 7 nights a wk at his old haunt, after we argued, my friend called and asked me to go to a bar to see her play music. I said maybe. HE called and asked what he could expect for the night? Was I going out? would I be drinking. (I have not touched a drop since before he quit. Its been 5 months for me, and I dont even care.)
I said, of course I wont drink. I dont want to, but I was thinking of going to the ____ for 2 hours to see my friend play.
20 minutes went by, then he called FROM THE BAR. HE was having a panic attack, said that my going out to a bar was putting a knot in HIS stomach. HE felt unsteady, he said. He could barely breath.
I kind of did not care about going out. I finally just said, OK. I wont go. I dont care, anyway. Maybe Ill see a movie, or watch TV.
He was oscillating wildly between insisting that I do what I want, and letting me know how it was breaking his mind if I were to go.
He sped home at high speed, I was halfway getting ready to go out, but stopped halfway through. When he came in, he searched my face, accused me of having put on makeup and then washed it off (I had not, but even if I had, that was no secret...). He demanded to see if I had shaved my legs. He kept insisting that I go, then trying to "catch" me in a lie about getting ready to go. I stated calmly that there was no deception, as I had told him I might go, then changed my mind. I also stated clearly that I had no desire to put him into a state of panic by going out. I did not want to make him feel that way. I asked him if he was able, at all to see that this was a bit of why I dont like him going to the bar so often, with the past and all, and with him being in recovery.
He was all paranoid, and suspicious. He searched through my phone, saw nothing. He kept insisting that he had caught me in the middle of some lie.
I did not know what to do. I was so angry. I just stayed there, and so did he. Right before we fell asleep, after a speechless 4 hours, he said, "I am sorry I am so crazy"
Next morning, he cleaned the first floor, did laundry.
He was distant, but focused. He went to the coffeeshop, then to a meeting.
As usual, the meeting brought him home with gratitude and clarity.
BUT, he was stil acting suspicious.
I was still angry. He had ruined my day from moment one, til I slept.
Right before he went upstairs to go to bed, he said, "I am just going to keep being a sober person. I am going to keep praying for strength. Even if you try to crush me by not going out and doing what you want to do...and trying to make me feel guilty for it."
I was speechless. I went to bed, and, again, right before sleeping he said, "I am sorry I ruined your day yesterday. I am over that now. Sorry I am so crazy. "
I just laid there.
This is a sober person!! There is no alcohol at play, here. He is menatlly unstable. and he wont take his meds.
I feel like my only recourse is to trick him into thinking that movingout is his idea, that he has to do it to "escape me"...
I am clear that he is having paranoia, that what he is doing is abusive.
I am clear that he needs to go.
I am unclear if I am ready to handle the fallout. The blame, the scapegoating, the potential relapse that he will definitely pin on me.
I am keeping my own hands tied, out of fear of feeling like I did not tolerate anough, and I know its a crock of sh*t.
But, I dount my own ability to shoulder the consquences of just putting him out. Its not like he will see that life is hard, that he had it pretty great here, with us. Its not like he is going to see that I was on his side.
I will just be alone with my son, again, and I dread being consumed with the sorrow and lonlieness. The guilt and the pain. The helplessness of wondering where he is, if he is going over the edge.
Maybe he needs to go over the edge, without me to blame, but, I think he will blame me no matter what.
Obviously, I have some unhealed issues about being falsely blamed.
My father died after abusing me for years, and I was a preteen. My mother, who had just become a serious drunk blamed me for his death.
I have been in therapy for it for years. I have tried to resolve this issue.
I dont tell alot of people about that. I dont wallow in victimization over it, but I do suppose I have some PTSD about being blamed and scapegoated.
I know what I have to do. And I know the world will not collapse if I do it. But my mind will really do a number on me if he falls apart, and even if he moves on and finds some great girl who understands him, and approaches his issues with compassion instead of venom.
OK. I beared the fears of my soul. Thanks for listening.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LA - Lower Alabama
Posts: 5,068
feel like my only recourse is to trick him into thinking that movingout is his idea, that he has to do it to "escape me"...
You could tell him flat out to leave.
Seriously, I do not know your living situation but there are always options.
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
He is absolutely emotionally abusive.
He's in a bar, and calls you and gets upset that you're considering going to a different bar just to see a friend of yours perform, and not to drink? He's already in a bar!
He tells you not to go, then says that you didn't go so that he would feel guilty?
He comes home and inspects you as if you lied and were going to "sneak out"? You already told him you were getting ready to go out, then changed your mind, so what did he expect to find when he got home?
I was recommended a book on this forum that helped me a lot.
"Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft
I think you'll find a lot of it familiar.
You deserve better than to live like this.
Unless he gets help for this abusive behavior of his, as well, any "next girl" would go through the same misery you're experiencing now.
He's in a bar, and calls you and gets upset that you're considering going to a different bar just to see a friend of yours perform, and not to drink? He's already in a bar!
He tells you not to go, then says that you didn't go so that he would feel guilty?
He comes home and inspects you as if you lied and were going to "sneak out"? You already told him you were getting ready to go out, then changed your mind, so what did he expect to find when he got home?
I was recommended a book on this forum that helped me a lot.
"Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft
I think you'll find a lot of it familiar.
You deserve better than to live like this.
Unless he gets help for this abusive behavior of his, as well, any "next girl" would go through the same misery you're experiencing now.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 927
Take what you want etc.
Sounds like projection, transference, what you will. He's the one with the problem with alcohol, cheating, lying (?) and yet the problems all stem from you doing what a person in a 'normal' (and I use that word advisedly) relationship can and does do?
He may fall apart if you end it. He may not. But it sounds like you are being torn apart just being in this situation. Your side of the street is yours.. his, is his.
*hugs*
Tx
ETA: I discovered, being with a 'recovering' A that you can wring the alcohol out of an abusive person, but you still got an abusive person.
Sounds like projection, transference, what you will. He's the one with the problem with alcohol, cheating, lying (?) and yet the problems all stem from you doing what a person in a 'normal' (and I use that word advisedly) relationship can and does do?
He may fall apart if you end it. He may not. But it sounds like you are being torn apart just being in this situation. Your side of the street is yours.. his, is his.
*hugs*
Tx
ETA: I discovered, being with a 'recovering' A that you can wring the alcohol out of an abusive person, but you still got an abusive person.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
Wow buffalo, your post brought me back....back to when I was still living with my XAH and when I was still letting myself be at the mercy of his insecurity and paranoia.
I'm sorry if you've said this before, but, um, why can't you just leave and file for divorce? Or, why can you not get him to leave, legally that is?
Sorry if you've mentioned it before.
This, what you describe, is total madness. You can't do a thing right in his book because you MUST be guilty of something. And phew, that lack of ownership of his, his fly-by apologies...wow.
You can stop this.
I'm sorry if you've said this before, but, um, why can't you just leave and file for divorce? Or, why can you not get him to leave, legally that is?
Sorry if you've mentioned it before.
This, what you describe, is total madness. You can't do a thing right in his book because you MUST be guilty of something. And phew, that lack of ownership of his, his fly-by apologies...wow.
You can stop this.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
This is part of the reason I ALWAYS recommend that someone coming out of rehab go to a Sober Living Facility. I also have and do recommend it to those that are early in recovery and using just AA for recovery. It gives one a somewhat 'structured' living environment, with privileges slowly earned, and living with other sober alcoholics as on relearns or learns how to live sober out there in the big wide world.
I was totally NUTS for my first 9 months of recovery, was having 'emotions' and 'feelings' I couldn't even name without the help of my sober acquaintances and sponsor. I was RAW. Paranoid one minute, happy as a lark the next, you get the picture.
Only you know what you and your child(ren) need for your peace and serenity, but what you have written here and some of your prior posts do indicate that he needs to leave.
It may sound like enabling, but how about making a 'list' of Sober Living Facilities in your area, printing it out and handing it to him.
J M H O
Also, don't forget when you are 'bouncing back and forth' over this, to picture all of us in the room with you .................. we may not be able to physically be there, but we are definitely with you in spirit.
Love and hugs,
I was totally NUTS for my first 9 months of recovery, was having 'emotions' and 'feelings' I couldn't even name without the help of my sober acquaintances and sponsor. I was RAW. Paranoid one minute, happy as a lark the next, you get the picture.
Only you know what you and your child(ren) need for your peace and serenity, but what you have written here and some of your prior posts do indicate that he needs to leave.
It may sound like enabling, but how about making a 'list' of Sober Living Facilities in your area, printing it out and handing it to him.
J M H O
Also, don't forget when you are 'bouncing back and forth' over this, to picture all of us in the room with you .................. we may not be able to physically be there, but we are definitely with you in spirit.
Love and hugs,
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
Glad you got it out.
Fear is smaller when it's on the outside.
It's not rolling around in our heads
getting bigger and more abstract.
I had to think of it this way -
Being alone and lonely
is better than being kicked around the nuttercoaster.
You're not alone this time.
You've got us.
When you're ready.
Fear is smaller when it's on the outside.
It's not rolling around in our heads
getting bigger and more abstract.
I had to think of it this way -
Being alone and lonely
is better than being kicked around the nuttercoaster.
You're not alone this time.
You've got us.
When you're ready.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Barb Dwyer, I love you! What an amazing response! You're right - saying things OUT LOUD often makes us realize how easy they are to fix.
In Al-ANon and the books I read - the best defense to being blamed and scapegoated is to say something like, "Oh. Sorry you feel that way." and nothing more. Quit trying to justify yourself and rationalize with an irrational person.
You are heading in the right direction, Buffalo, keep it up.
In Al-ANon and the books I read - the best defense to being blamed and scapegoated is to say something like, "Oh. Sorry you feel that way." and nothing more. Quit trying to justify yourself and rationalize with an irrational person.
You are heading in the right direction, Buffalo, keep it up.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Where else can I be honest like this and get support like this? One of these days I am gonna cough up a hairbal and it's going to be a whopper. That is when I will just walk away. No drama no muss no fuss.
That's not today but it might be tomorrow.
That's not today but it might be tomorrow.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
What a terribly stressful and emotioanly exhausting way for you to have to live in your home. I'm so sorry.
I understand where this comes from because I used to try and manipulate situations like this too. Big and small situations. I would try to turn things until I could figure out a way to get him to do something I wanted. It increased my sense of powerlessness and anger. I was trying to control him instead of me. It is what I had always done on some level because I was always scared of something.
That is good. It is a big realization.
So you know what you need. That is another huge thing. You can now move your focus to what next.
What is the next right thing?
I get this too. What if all that comes true? Sometimes I would have this built up in my head like I might just have a complete breakdown or lightening would strike me or I would in some way be doomed or asking for trouble. When I thought about it more I knew in my head, and felt in my heart that these things would not happen - that they were not true. It was the way I represented the huge fear I had of making a decision or taking that step.
I had to focus on the next right thing. That was a gift that people here at SR gave me. That can't lead you wrong. It is like not looking down when you cross a bridge and are afraid of heights. Don't look at that overwhelming fear, just stay focused on the next right thing.
You have no idea what he is going to see or think, or what will happen. This is part of doing that next right thing too. For a very long time I didn't do anything because I couldn't see how all the dominoes would fall all the way down the line. I was paralized. I'm not sure how I let that go but I wish it for you - so that you can move forward in any direction you choose. So that you can get un-stuck.
IME the sorrow and lonlieness were more painful when I was 'stuck' then when I was really all by myself. The guilt lessoned as I gained clarity, which only came with space.
If he goes over that edge and blames you for the rest of his days, how would this change what you need? If he goes over the edge, and gets his head on straight, well then he will quit blaming you. He really will see then. In either scenario, you need to accept in your heart that you have no control over it, regardless of if you are living together or not.
Hang in there.
I feel like my only recourse is to trick him into thinking that movingout is his idea, that he has to do it to "escape me"...
I am clear that he is having paranoia, that what he is doing is abusive.
I am clear that he needs to go.
What is the next right thing?
I am unclear if I am ready to handle the fallout. The blame, the scapegoating, the potential relapse that he will definitely pin on me.
I had to focus on the next right thing. That was a gift that people here at SR gave me. That can't lead you wrong. It is like not looking down when you cross a bridge and are afraid of heights. Don't look at that overwhelming fear, just stay focused on the next right thing.
Its not like he is going to see that I was on his side.
I will just be alone with my son, again, and I dread being consumed with the sorrow and lonlieness. The guilt and the pain.
Maybe he needs to go over the edge, without me to blame, but, I think he will blame me no matter what.
Hang in there.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 281
Buffalogirl, I'm feeling for you. Your RAH sounds so much like my XAH. He also blamed and scapegoated me all the time. It was my fault just because I breathed. I was damned if I did, damned if I didn't. Added to that, was the abuse. My ex would take off all the time for a week or more. I wasn't 'allowed' to ask where he went, who he was with. I, on the other hand was not 'allowed' to go anywhere and didn't even go to my sister's wedding.
I'm glad you see his behaviour is madness. He's having a meltdown because he's sitting in a bar (and he's in recovery?) and you let him know you're thinking of going out. Then you change your mind (presumably because he's having a panic attack and you know you'll be 'in for it' if you do decide to go), then he's checking for evidence you were going out when you said you were but he's trying to catch you out lying that you were really getting ready to go out? My thinking is, he's out there doing whatever he's doing and thinking you'd be doing the same if or when you went out....projection. And after all this crazy behaviour, he says he's going to keep on being a sober person even if you try to crush him? I'm sitting here shaking my head because I've been where you are. There really is no reasoning with insanity.
Whenever I went/go into a panic about being abandoned, I tell myself that babies will die if their abandoned but, I'm an adult. I won't die if I'm on my own. I'll be okay. And, amazingly, I'm in a place now where I'm on my own with 5 kids and I feel fine about it. It's hard work, but I'm okay. It's taken me my whole life to face and conquer that fear of being alone. I stared right down the barrel and I came out alive! And now, even though I have lonely times and times when I'd love to be wrapped in a man's arms, I wouldn't trade my life now for the one I had before. If you make the decision to be on your own with your son, you'll survive. In fact, you may find you enjoy the peace. In the meantime, look after yourself and know you are not to blame for his behaviour. Nor were you to blame for your parents issues either. By the way, when I dealt with my abandonment stuff, I no longer panicked about my kids being abandoned by their father/s. That was a huge problem for me in the past. I couldn't cope with my kids going through what I went through. But, you know what? Now I think to myself, they have one parent who has not and will not abandon them and I can continue to grow and change and be the best parent I can be. And in turn, help them realise they're worthy of being loved and respected and even if their father/s walked out, that is no reflection on their worthiness as a person.
I'm just so glad you're here and whether you cough up that hairball or not (loved what you wrote there),there's always support here. I wish I found this place when I was with my XAH!
I'm glad you see his behaviour is madness. He's having a meltdown because he's sitting in a bar (and he's in recovery?) and you let him know you're thinking of going out. Then you change your mind (presumably because he's having a panic attack and you know you'll be 'in for it' if you do decide to go), then he's checking for evidence you were going out when you said you were but he's trying to catch you out lying that you were really getting ready to go out? My thinking is, he's out there doing whatever he's doing and thinking you'd be doing the same if or when you went out....projection. And after all this crazy behaviour, he says he's going to keep on being a sober person even if you try to crush him? I'm sitting here shaking my head because I've been where you are. There really is no reasoning with insanity.
Whenever I went/go into a panic about being abandoned, I tell myself that babies will die if their abandoned but, I'm an adult. I won't die if I'm on my own. I'll be okay. And, amazingly, I'm in a place now where I'm on my own with 5 kids and I feel fine about it. It's hard work, but I'm okay. It's taken me my whole life to face and conquer that fear of being alone. I stared right down the barrel and I came out alive! And now, even though I have lonely times and times when I'd love to be wrapped in a man's arms, I wouldn't trade my life now for the one I had before. If you make the decision to be on your own with your son, you'll survive. In fact, you may find you enjoy the peace. In the meantime, look after yourself and know you are not to blame for his behaviour. Nor were you to blame for your parents issues either. By the way, when I dealt with my abandonment stuff, I no longer panicked about my kids being abandoned by their father/s. That was a huge problem for me in the past. I couldn't cope with my kids going through what I went through. But, you know what? Now I think to myself, they have one parent who has not and will not abandon them and I can continue to grow and change and be the best parent I can be. And in turn, help them realise they're worthy of being loved and respected and even if their father/s walked out, that is no reflection on their worthiness as a person.
I'm just so glad you're here and whether you cough up that hairball or not (loved what you wrote there),there's always support here. I wish I found this place when I was with my XAH!
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