tryintosmile

Last night he got drunk, but without too much incident (early on anyway). Just one of those drunks where he wants to talk about himself for hours and I'm supposed to sit and listen to boring stuff about his job (he's a mechanic - yes boring). He'd NEVER sit and listen to me talk about anything to do with my day, life, etc.

Anyway - don't know if anyone has every experienced this with their A but it is scary. He passes out, but either wakes up to go to the bathroom or something wakes him up. If it's a sound I made, then I am in trouble. He's in a sleepwalking state and his nature is extremely violent. Last night he came into my room (I was watching a movie on my computer - which helps me fall asleep). I haven't slept with him for years - for many obvious and some not so obvious reasons (I suffer from pain and any weight in the bed beside me gives me a terrible sleep). He comes into my room and says 'shove over - I'm sleeping here'. I said - 'please no - I want get a good sleep' and start to guide him back to his room. He's strong and keeps pushing against me, but I hold my ground. He starts in on how I must be talking to my boyfriend on the computer (what boyfriend? - if only). I try to explain that I'm just watching a movie, but he doesn't hear me. He's in like a trance. I try to 'help' him towards the door and he shoves me against the bed and goes into his room and starts mumbling threats while slamming the door. Then he comes out again and yells at me to come to the den and talk to him. I say 'no I'm going to sleep'. He yells 'get in here - NOW'. I have the phone beside me and say 'no' again.

He demands this - often - when I am on the computer or something and he wants my undivided attention or he thinks I should be doing something I'm not. 'Come talk to me - NOW' or 'Put that computer away NOW or I'll smash it". If I still don't he'll head towards me and the computer, and since I don't want him to ruin another computer, I say 'okay, okay'. Once he slammed it down on my hand.

Well I've gotten a bit tougher, since coming to this wonderful site more often, so I'm 'listening to myself and my reactions to him'. I didn't go to him last nigh - and he did leave me alone and I feel asleep. Normally, he will not give up until he finds the right threat that will 'make me give into the demand'.

Last night I realized that I am VERY SCARED of his threats, but because I always give in, I've never allowed him to go as far as he might. Is it dumb to take that chance? I need to know how far he will go, and if it is to hurt me in some way - I almost need that to happen. The reason is because (I know this may sound stupid) I NEED A REASON TO LEAVE THAT HE WOULD AGREE WITH (and he knows what they are). It should have been when I found out last year that he went 2 days in a row to have sex with a girl he'd been 'dabbling' with over the times we'd previously been apart (because he knew that was OFFICIALLY cheating), but he actually wrote me a letter of apology (first one ever) telling me how much he loved me and that he knew he needed to get sober (sorber - he wrote, and of course - as usual - I caved - once again.

Since I've gotten tougher, he doesn't like it, so he knows somewhere - deep down that if he smashes my new computer or hits me, that may be it. I'm almost ready to let him do that - just so I can FINALLY justify one of HIS reasons - that I have a GOOD ENOUGH reason to go. That's the way his brain works. He minimizes all the 'smaller abuse' to the point where my brain agrees and let's it go. Not that I haven't had hundreds of reasons in the past - but I'm ready now and need to stop being afraid. I need to 'call his bluff' and not give into his threats any longer. My mother and niece are downstairs and they know that if they hear anything, to call 911, so I'm not alone.

I've just now realized that I've never been hit because I always give in before that 'could' happen. I live my life in fear and survival mode.

He doesn't remember last night. Acting normal this morning and other than making demands (as usual) at me to do some housework, I know he's completely forgotten the incident. That - in itself - IS scary. Until the drinking starts each night - he isn't like this. I don't fear anything when he is sober. Sometimes he is nice and thoughtful and things are almost tolerable. It's just that I am having a harder time trying to be happy during those moments, because all I can remember are the bad ones, so even though I may sound like this is going on 24/7 - it's only because it really is now (in my head).

suki44883

I'm sorry you are dealing with this. He is definitely abusive and you have every right not to have that in your life. If I may ask, what is keeping you in such an abusive relationship? You don't need his permission to leave him. Do you have any relatives or someone close where you could go? You can always call the domestic abuse hotline for help. Sometimes just talking to someone and getting information can give us the strength to do what we need to do. Do you have children with him?

Pelican

That sounds like a very dangerous situation!

It sounds as though you may be living in fear 24/7. Afraid that the things you said, did, didn't say, didn't do during sober times will come back as fuel during his evening rages. Always being guarded with what I was saying and during was how I lived. Walking on eggshells. The accusations start after the alcohol phase progresses to anger.

Waiting for him to lash out physically is a dangerous gamble with your own life. Your family may be downstairs ready to call 911 if they hear loud noises, but the first blow may well be the fatal blow.

you said this:

I NEED A REASON TO LEAVE THAT HE WOULD AGREE WITH (and he knows what they are).

You want validation from an active alcoholic?

You are important.
You are special.
You deserve to be treated with respect.
You deserve to be treated with respect as an equal partner in the relationship.

This is your one precious life.

His drunken rages are a form of verbal abuse. Please contact your local domestic violence agency. Speaking with a counselor there may help you to understand your options and your rights.

Wishing you peace and safety

LexieCat

Oh, sweetie,

PLEASE don't let him hurt you just to satisfy his "reasons". Trust me, he would be remorseful but he would then claim to be ready to change and accuse you of leaving just when he's fixin' to do it. It won't work.

HE DOESN'T HAVE TO AGREE. And he won't, no matter what you do, he won't. You are wasting your life away waiting for something that will NEVER HAPPEN. He's not going to get up one day and say, "You know, you're right. Time for you to move on."

I am really scared, too, for your safety. I really strongly urge you to hook up with a DV counselor. You can call the DV hotline and they can help you. I worked for over 9 years in the DV field and I KNOW you are in a dangerous situation. Trying to leave without proper planning can increase the danger. DV experts can help you get out SAFELY. Your life and your safety are important, much more important than satisfying him about your right to leave.

Please do that. Talk to someone who knows about these situations. It will be as empowering as your first Al-Anon meeting.

barb dwyer

Tryin -

First,
You're learning things by leaps and bounds.
I hope you realize that
and give yourself some credit.

Second -
I think pushing this
is playing with fire.

I think (from my own personal experience)
that realizing what is what
acknowledging that this has to change
is what you need to fuel
making your plan
and sticking with it.

Now whether that plan is to have him removed
or to get yourself and your family out in a safe way

is up to you.

But feeling around
and messing with a drunk in blackout
to see where edges are

can get you at the least
a black eye an broken computer.

That's not what recovery is about.

IT's about using knowledge of self gained
and changing the reality.
There's no changing a mean drunk.
He has to do that for himself and he's not going to.

I am hoping the second meeting is coming up for you.
Recovery people are the most 'connected' people there are.

I know without even asking that there's plenty of resouces
that could help you right in that room
who know the phone numbers
the steps and procedures
and the offices that you need

to get this nightmare to end for you.

Please don't get yourself hurt.

And please keep posting
because now I'm going to worry.

Idul

I, also, felt I needed a reason to leave that he would agree with and understand. The first time I left he became very violent and nasty and when that didn't work he became apologetic and remorseful. Unfortunately that worked and I went back. Over time his drinking resumed and so did his bullsh#t. I would try to explain to him why I wanted to leave and he would always twist my words and somehow convince me to stay. I was raising my two kids plus his four, so I was a stay at home mom to 6 kids under the age of 11. Doing that with an unstable alcoholic partner was exhausting. We were in counseling and I would occassionally say that it was too much and I wanted to leave, but I wanted to stay friends and was worried he wouldn't allow that and would become violent again. He put on such a grand show for me and the therapist...I would never, I have grown so much, you are amazing, you are the kindest person I ever met. It made sense to him that I might leave because the situation was overwhelming for me and my kids. I had his "permission" and when things got really bad one drunken day I left. He still got nasty, horrible, and mean. I was accused of cheating, he lies to people about me, he tells all my secrets. Don't be as gullible as I was. You don't need him to understand and frankly I don't think anything you say will make him okay with you leaving. Call the DV hotline and get out safely! Don't spend another day of your life waiting for someone else's permission to be happy, respected, and safe.

tallulah

You ARE being abused. You ARE already in an abusive situation. You ALREADY have a reason to leave.

I have been where you are right now. A week before 'the incident' my ex was threatening and abusive. I even walked out of our home because his behaviour disturbed to the extent that I felt I needed to remove myself. I called an Al-anon friend. She said she was worried and scared for me and to get out and stay out. She said this situation is dangerous and could possibly escalate.

I didn't listen. I rationalised. I excused. I went back.

One week later exactly, I was attacked and landed in hospital, two and a half hours of microsurgery and three months of rehabilitation. It came out of exactly the same kind of situation that had happened earlier. At the time it felt like out of nowhere almost.. but it wasn't.

What LexieCat says.. contact a DV centre and plan to leave, safely.

Tx

lillamy

No. You don't.

You don't need a reason he will agree with. Which is good, because you'll never find one. I think you need to be convinced in your own mind that your reasons for leaving are sound and valid. I struggled with that for a long time myself -- partly because of the frog-in-the-pot syndrome and partly because I was frankly terrified of leaving.

I told myself "I'll leave if he does X." He'd do X, and I'd tell myself, "yeah, but he only did X because of Y" -- making excuses for him in my own mind while, really, just talking myself out of a commitment I had made to myself to Not Take Any More Sh**.

You don't want to know how far he's willing to go. The night I left, running for my life from a man who would take homeless people in bunches to Taco Bell for lunch, a man who's done pro bono work for destitute people his entire life, a man who had never raised a hand against anybody, a man who loves children and animals... that night, I apologized to one of the police officers that responded to my call. And you know what he said?

He said, "Ma'm, I'm very happy we took one live person out of that house. If you hadn't acted so quickly, we could have carried out five bodies."

JenT1968

I remember waiting for an incident that he would feel bad enough about to let me leave peacefully, and that others would accpt was a bona fide reason for me to go. My ex had been physically violent "just" twice, once gripping me round the throat in an argument, once hitting me to wake me up, I spent years then not arguing when he was that drunk and managing his behaviour and mine when he was. He threatened me often, always whilst drunk, never remembering in the morning. he also "forgot" when drunk that he didn't sleep in the same room as me and the baby, and would drunkenly push his way in, beligerent and mumbling threats as he left.

I was scared of him alot of the time, although I wouldn't have described it as that at the time. I also remember contemplating if I should argue back, to get it over and done with, call him on his threats rather than pretending to be asleep, provoke the incident that would be the end. But I know me, and if I felt in any way responsible in my mind, then even him half killing me wouldn't have been the catalyst to me leaving, because I would have felt guilty.

he already has been violent towards you: slamming a computer on your hand, (an accident he says? or something minor?) what would you think would be enough? holding your arms until they bruised, holding you against a wall? knocking you over? throwing something that "accidentally" hits you? hitting you? how long would it take the police to get to you? how are you going to get safe once he starts in on you, drunk?

I didn't decide to push it, the incident that came along involved our children's safety, and although imediately after he was contrite and accepting of my decision to live seperately, within days this changed, he was full of rage and accusations, paranoid, indignant, morally outraged, it was a horrible time.

please call the dv people, you won't be wasting their time, they will not think that, (()) this is a horrible way to live, you deserve so much more.

LexieCat

This is actually one of the aspects of domestic violence that the public in general doesn't understand. In the "cycle of violence" there is often a tension-building phase. It isn't unusual for a DV victim to (consciously or unconsciously) "provoke" an incident at a time or in a manner that (a) gets it over with and/or (b) is one where she thinks she will be safer (e.g., when she has a place she thinks she can run to, safely). People then have a tendency to blame the victim, or she may blame herself, for "starting something".

It only makes sense in the context of the violent relationship. To the outside world, it looks like she was "asking for it".

passionfruit

I just left my AH 2 weeks ago. He was extremely violent.
Someone on here told me to read the book "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft.

I have started the book and am awakened and shocked to say the least. Essentially, the book opened my eyes to help me see him as consciously manipulating me, my emotions, my life.

I think if you read this book, you will find what you need without his validation.

If he is a violent man, when you push or simply stand up to him, YOU WILL PAY THE PRICE he sees fit to bestow on you. I promise you.

I stood up to my AH repeatedly thinking who was he to treat me this way and I was literally beat to within inches of my life on several occasions. I actually said outloud, "I can't believe this is happening."
I did not know how afraid I was of him until I left. Even now, something as simple as going to game site he played on makes me shake inside.

Read the book. Read the book. It will help you see through all the confusion you are carrying. I believe that.

JenT1968

((passion))
I have that book too, it is brilliant. I couldn't read it all in one go, because I found it too close for home in a number of respects, and my discomfort uncovered some hidden beleifs I had about abusive relationships.

but it has helped me understand my former situation so well, helped me name the less obvious stuff that I found so difficult to describe, and that I thought sounded pathetic.

((tryin))

tallulah

I'm not sure if I should post this.. but I'm worried for you.

I am a survivor. I have a scar in the shape of an S.. a defence wound ostensibly.. and it is my physical reminder every day.

Because.. I survived. Had I not got that now fading scar, I would probably not be typing this today. Because, my surgeon, my counsellor and the Police told me.. had I not got the reflexes of a cat, I would have bled out before an ambulance could have reached me.

I can't tell you what to do... but I care about you.. I think we all here do. I don't want to see you hurt anymore.

If you ever want to IM me.. feel free to.

Tx

tryintosmile

I'm crying that all of you care so much. I'd love to quote a little from all of your posts and still may later but I don't have much time to "play on the computer" right now.

I AM SO THANKFUL that you all understand this - better than I do - and are able to so clearly see what I cannot and relay it back to me.

Since I went to the Al-Anon meeting, I seem to be having revelations, in leaps and bounds. Just seeing myself in this and wondering what you've all said here 'why the hell do I think I deserve this kind of treatment - from anyone'?

He's always been very proud to say that he would never hit anyone - and it seems the one thing he's been steady with. His daughters drove him nuts in their teens and he had some 'knock-down drag out' fights with them but only verbally. They'd end up hitting him and he wouldn't flinch - he's like an iron-man.

Lately, though, I've noticed that his anger seems worse, and he seems scarier during these bouts. Perhaps it is only because I don't give in to the first threat. He used to have FULL CONTROL, upon demand, and now (as I said) I wait for the threat that scares me the most - before I give in. By pushing it - I meant I wanted to keep waiting for each threat, and not be afraid of it. I think he'd get to my dog at some point, before me. He knows there will be something.

Anyway - I finally realize that my whole life feels threatened - constantly, in some capacity - even though I used to think it was only when he was drunk.
I just try to accommodate (both in good nature and accepting demands) to maintain some level of peace.

Now that I'm challenging everything and not giving in, I'm becoming more aware of the potential consequences and I'm hearing my situation in YOUR stories, which is even scarier. I've always felt he's had too much pride to lose, to do anything too severe. Everyone he knows thinks he's Mr. Wonderful and if he were to do something so bad that they'd find out - he'd feel he'd lost everything. That's more important to him than even the bottle. I guess - what you're all saying here is that I shouldn't wait to find out that I'm wrong about that. Yikes!

Thanks again - and I'm going to get the book 'Why Does He Do That' - right away!

tjp613

Please keep the book under wraps, ok?

You can read excerpts on Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?id=azv...page&q&f=false

LexieCat

One other suggestion...

Please be VERY careful of your computer habits. You do NOT want him to read your posts here. Be sure to clear your cache and browser history each time you logoff.

ToBeSerene

Tryintosmile ...

Please know you are in our thoughts and I wish you comfort and peace. You DO NOT deserve this - no one does. I've not been in a DM situation but please confide in those that have ... their experience and wisdom will offer your strength and guidance.

I am scared for you. My AH is not violent but is verbally abusive. What I do know about alcohol is that it's addiction and abuse is progressive and nothing can be expected or anticipated when they ar drunk. Don't assume you know how they will react.

Please take care of yourself and keep in touch

tjp613

Something I'd like to point out that's very important in your situation is this: The concept of "detachment" that Al-Anon speaks of does not apply well in abusive situations such as this. You are challenging him -- you said it plainly -- and that is exactly the type of trigger that might cause him to escalate his methods of control. It's probably not just a coincidence that his "anger seems worse, and he seems scarier during these bouts." PLEASE BE CAREFUL about challenging him until you are educated about domestic violence, have an iron-clad safety plan in place, and you are READY TO LEAVE in a moment's notice.

Please read this article: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...tml#post826673

Safety Plan: http://www.abanet.org/tips/publicservice/DVENG.pdf

Safety Plan Template: http://www.ncall.us/docs/SafetyPlanExample10-06.pdf

passionfruit

.......This excerpt from Luncy Bancroft's book can better explain ....
"The abusive man's problem with anger is almost the opposite of what is commonly believed. The reality is : Your abusive partner doesn't have a problem with his anger; he has a problem with YOUR ANGER. One of the basic human rights he takes away from you is the right to be angry with him. No matter how badly he treats you, he believes that your voices shouldn't rise and your blood shouldn't boil. The privlege of rage is reserved for him alone. When your anger does jump out of you-as will happen to any abused woman from time to time-he is likely to try to jam it back down your throat as quickly as he can. Then he uses your anger against you to prove what an irrational person you are....Why does your partner react so strongly to your anger? On some level, he senses -though not consciously-that there is POWER in your anger. if you have space to feel and express your rage, you will be better able to hold on to your identity and to resist his suffocation of you. He tries to take your anger away in order to snuff out your capacity to resist his will. Finally, he perceives your anger as a challenge to his authority, to which he responds by overpowering you with anger that is greater than your own. In this way he ensures that he retains the exclusive right to be the one who shows anger."

tryintosmile

Thanks for your concern, but he has no idea how to check for anything on the computer. He was completely computer illiterate and only learned how to use it years back to look porn dating sites and check mail and that was on a desktop computer. He's baffled with laptops and I have no intention of teaching him how to use them. He's not interested anyway. The only thing he would use a computer for is for something that would be addictive and not in the best interest of a good relationship. He also doesn't read - so I could have a thousands books sitting on a shelf right in front of him and he wouldn't even understand the titles or pick them up to see what they're about. He thinks they're junk, so I've never been able to even display them in the 'public' areas. They look like clutter to him. He becomes paranoid of what I'm doing, but confronts me instead by throwing accusations as to what I'm doing.

Also - please don't be afraid for me. I will be careful until I can get a plan worked out. As long as I am a 'doormat', he is pleased. If I conformed to everything he expected of me - HE'D be a 'happy couple'. Problem for him is that I've never been willing to compromise myself to the degree that he expects a woman should. Yes - I walk on eggshells and yes - he scares me. He refuses to discuss anything to do with anything, so nothing will ever change, unless I initiate it. I see people who are still having problems, even though they've gone for counselling, AA, etc. If only he'd at least acknowledge or get some kind of help - there could be a difference. He refuses to allow anyone (other than his children) even know the extent of his alcoholism, so the most important thing to him is that he continues to be seen as a great guy with a great life and no issues. As long as he feels he has full control over me, he can maintain that. When I leave, he will be able to itemize my shortcomings and tell everyone that I was the loser with all of the problems, and he even half has his kids believing that anyway. He's mortally afraid that I will 'out' him, but I'll tell you - if I ever do get out of this sanity, intact, I will probably be so happy, I wouldn't care less how he wants to be perceived.