theuncertainty

Recent background info: XAH’s GF e-mailed me Wednesday to

1. let me know that XAH would be in the car when they planned to pick up DS this Saturday and
2. ask if on my next weekend (02/05 and 02/06), when they get DS for dinner on Sunday, if they could switch days and have him for dinner on Saturday instead so they could go to an adult-only event for her work

I e-mailed back and told her

1. I had just e-mailed XAH with an alternate pick up arrangement which would allow DS to not miss any of the birthday party they (she) RSVP’d to
2. No. Saturday 02/05 is already planned out pretty much from 10 am to bedtime and I will not cancel the plans with our friends.

Her e-mail back:
My response:
Alright….. I am now feeling like I was far too accommodating on what amounts to a date, albeit one related to her work (holiday party type thing), while at the same time thinking that I did not give enough and could put them on the list allowing them to pick up DS from school/aftercare (which is kind of an all or nothing thing as I understand it, once they are OK’d to pick up DS, they’re OK to pick up DS). Then back to: that privilege (to be able to pick up DS from school) is one that he voluntarily gave up when he offered me full custody so he could have unsupervised visits, tough sh-t that he didn’t get unsupervised visits, he still gave up custody and parenting responsibilities/privileges. They aren’t even 2 months into the new schedule and they’re asking for a date night…. But it’s a special occasion… But why should I use my vacation time so they can go on a date? Why isn’t dip---- asking for this? Why am I dealing with GF? If it’s really more important to go to her work event than to have dinner with DS, then by all means, go to the work event. If however, having dinner with DS is a priority, there are 2 other people who could supervise the visit.

I know I’m all wrapped around the axle about this. Believe it or not, I’ve been trying to re-focus and trying to breathe and this is actually me calmed down – a_lot.. Reality check, please? Which of my twisting views is inappropriate? Was I wrong to make being able to go camping this summer a condition of letting them have a date?

LexieCat

Ummm.... maybe. If I didn't want to make the switch (though I think I would have made the effort if at all possible--never know when I might need a similar favor) I think I would have just said no. You're setting it up so any accommodation YOU might need later will be subject to the same kind of quid pro quo.

I just don't like having to do all that negotiating all the time. Yes or no, but no "let's make a deal". That's just me, though...

Learn2Live

IMO forget that it's a "date."
It sounds like a fair shake other than you taking vacation.
And I thought you did not want to deal with her to accommodate him seeing his child? Or was that part of the court order?

theuncertainty

Nope, L2L, dealing with her is not part of the court order. It is something she has taken upon herself - to be the go-between between her honest, caring, loving man and this unreasonable, over-protective, not-smart, not-strong woman. The only thing the court order says is that communication between XAH and I is to be by e-mail and only about DS.

But then, they've pulled that cord already: the court order only said to bring back toys, nothing else (conveniently forgetting that the judge said in court to bring everything back and XAH agreed), so he doesn't have to return your stuff. Then he couldn't even bring back the toys, but I'm getting off-subject here.

Thanks, Lexie, I didn't even think that I'd be setting up a quid pro quo thing. F---. I do not want to negotiate every little thing either, which is one of many reasons I kept pushing for full legal custody, because even getting DS medical treatment would have been a trial with him.

theuncertainty

OMG. I just made it worse. What is wrong with me?! F F F F . Email to GF

Why didn't I sit on my hands? Or just shut up?

Learn2Live

Why? Maybe because you don't WANT to accommodate them, or her, or him. And that is okay. It is okay to just say no, without any judgment, without any complaining, without any drama. You can just say no. And yes, it is okay also to change your mind even after all you've already said you would do.

For me, one of the hardest things has been figuring out EXACTLY what I want instead of taking whatever is thrown at me, or reacting to what occurs around or to me. It's kind of the opposite of knowing what I don't want. When I know exactly what I want, I know immediately how to respond to others: It either fits into what I want or it doesn't. You do not have to accommodate either one of them if it doesn't fit with your schedule. You do not need to go out of your way, take vacation, or inconvenience your Dad to give them what they want.

stella27

there is always "that doesn't work for me." no further explanation needed.

LexieCat

I kinda think repeatedly referring to it as a "date" kinda oozes well, you know.

Look, what's done is done. You can apologize for the tone later, if you feel you need to, followed by a simple statement, "Upon reflection, I can (or can't) accommodate the schedule change." "That doesn't work for me" is a good, neutral way to put it, too.

zrx1200R

Clearly you are a kind and thoughtful person. And you are bending over backwards trying to be accommodating.

Stop it.

Think how the ex would handle a request of this nature. And then remind yourself that even your worst response would be better than that.

Don't give so many options. Just agree to what they want or not. Remember a compromise leaves neither party fully satisfied. If you don't want to do it, don't. If it is basically ok with you, then make it happen. They probably won't turn the boy into a cannibal with an extra visit. Most likely.

vujade

Totally relate here. I moved ALL my plans around over the New Year's weekend because XAH whined about how overworked he was at having the boys "all the time". I actually had plans for Sunday, Jan 2nd. He had an acquaintance who died and the funeral was that day at 1:00. He didn't really ASK me to keep them, just said "funeral is Sunday" and I said "Sorry - I have plans". Freak out ensued. I quickly realized that there is NO quid pro quo with these guys.

So, I made a decision. I now say "I have plans for 'x' night and will have to get a sitter for the boys. If you are available and would like to keep them, I'm giving you first right of refusal." That way I'm not asking him a favor, I'm giving him an opportunity.

So, tell me, are you one of those people like me who tries to accommodate everyone's schedule for holiday dinners and you end up having it in three shifts to make everyone happy? LOL!!!

I'm trying really hard to learn that "no" is not a bad word.

Oh...and when you asked why you are having to deal with GF instead of XAH, my immediate thought was "Because now it is HER turn to take care of him". Maddening, isn't it? But hey...at least its not YOU anymore!

theuncertainty

No. I don't know. Am I being dense? Call it what you want. That's what it is.

It's a moot point now the taking vacation. I'm gone for the weekend, my supervisor is gone. There will be no taking off early on Monday. No response from either of them.

Thanks for sharing, SKW. Yes. She is doing everything for him. E_v_e_r_y_t_h_i_n_g. I no longer have to.

Is it sad that I think I would prefer that it was that I was trying to be accommodating? And sad that ZRX made me cry by calling me a kind and thoughtful person? I don't think I was trying to be nice. A doormat, yes. I'm terrified that he'll take our son. It's a stupid fear based how the custody hearing went. That was always the threat when we argued. I'm terrified he'll yell 'parental alienation' and the court will take DS.

At the same time the urge to just hand DS over to him and leave so I would never have to deal with XAH again, is so strong. Please don't yell at me. I know that would be the worst thing in the world to do to DS. And I know it would just make me feel worse. Just saying the thought is there. And hoping that by saying it out loud, it will lose it's power.

But I don't think I can do this. I don't think I'm strong enough. I can't react normally. I don't want to react like this. I don't want to be the victim / martyr, which is what other people have told me I'm doing. I just don't want to do this any more. So just don't do it. Stop the pity party. So easy to say.

I don't know why I'm still typing

lillamy

I think we should introduce our exes. They seem to be cut from the same cloth. Mine doesn't (officially) have a new gf yet, but the "can we change the schedule because I have x, y, and z going on" happened this past week in my life, too.

It's hard. It's hard because, on the one hand, you want to do everything you can to accommodate your children. On the other hand, in doing that, I find myself going "why am I agreeing to this? It's stupid! He could get a babysitter, or even prioritize the children over going bowling with his buddies or going to a concert with the blonde who's always hanging out at his house."

It's tricky waters to navigate. And I think in your situation, dealing with the GF would be the most annoying thing. I think I would probably insist on only dealing with him. He is the one who has visitation rights -- not her.

Hang in there.

bookwyrm

Dealing with GF could be a blessing. You're avoiding all the old triggers of dealing with XAH. No abuse, no manipulation etc etc...

The Uncertainty, please, please, please be kind to yourself. Cut yourself some slack! All of this is still relatively new. Give yourself the benefit of the doubt. Realise that you're having to adjust and adapt to new things and it will be a case of trial and error till you get settled into a new way of life. Stop beating yourself up! Its all about progress not perfection. You've made it this far. That's an achievement in itself. You are way stronger than you think, sweetie.

naive

hi uncertainty-

here's my opinion, after reading this thread, as well as all of your other threads.

i wouldn't bend over backwards. you have an arrangement in place. this permits everyone involved to organize their schedule, including and most importantly, YOU.

i would stick to the plan. it might be difficult the first couple times, as in you will get resistence from them, but after you stick to the plan for awhile, they will get the message. then you won't have to talk to them as much, as everyone will understand, this is the plan. period.

i would stop explain the personal details of your life to the girlfriend. she doesn't need to know your reasons. try to keep it as bried as possible...

for example,

"no i can't do that date change."
"no, i need to stick to the original agreement"
"no, that doesn't work for me"

as for their life and their dates, it is not your affair. either DS is the priority to them or not. this is not your affair either.

as for her work party, well, she has many options...she could not go, they could arrange a different person to supervise the visit, etc.

as for adding them to the list of people who could pick him up at school, i think that is a bad idea, for obvious reasons.

as for your camping trip, i would arrange that within the current parameters of your agreement and rely on them for NOTHING. for example, maybe go camping mid-week, using a few of your vacation days instead.

just my two cents. take what you want, throw out the rest.

as

tallulah

It's ok to say 'no' without any qualification. It may take a while for people to get it if they are used to you 'people pleasing', but they do eventually. Especially if you use the 'say what you mean, just don't say it mean' thing.

I imagine the arrangements/schedule/etc. have been put in place in order to put your child first. So, what's best for your child? Maybe make that the starting point when dealing with this (letting the other side know that that's your priority and where you are coming from)?

Hope it works out.. I can only imagine how hard it is when there are children involved too.

Tx

tjp613

I've been divorced for 15 years and my kids were 2 & 5 when we got divorced. So I've got a lot of experience in this area (negotiating visitations).

I'll go with the consensus here and suggest that you simply say "Ok" or "Sorry, that doesn't work for me"...you do NOT have to give a list of your reasons at all. None. You do not have to help them figure out alternative arrangements. If their 'event' is so important then perhaps they just need to forfeit dinner on Sunday night...period.

My XAH got remarried within a year. Nice enough woman but GOD what a control freak! She jumped in and took over every detail to the point that I was never talking to the father of my children about their care. She was even reading and responding to emails I sent to XAH! I had to put my foot down and state that I would no longer discuss the kids with her...only with him...and only by phone (so I would know who I was actually talking to). That worked out much better for all of us. (But he still had to check with her on every little detail, including wiping his butt!)

The other thing I began to notice is that I would compromise when they needed to change the schedule because he travelled for his job. But when *I* needed a 'favor' it was declined about 80% of the time. I eventually stopped asking for and stopped granting any exceptions to the ordered schedule. If they couldn't make a weekend, then too bad...they had to forfeit.

In the end it worked out the best FOR US to follow the letter of the decree but it took years for me to figure that out.

Learn2Live

Yes. She sounds very codependent. I'd also like to point out that I don't believe this is necessarily because he is an alcoholic. I have been this woman many times and I have seen this happen in many different relationships other than my own. I have seen and talked to friends and family about men (and this is not a generalization about ALL men, nor is it men-bashing) who do not take an active role in parenting, who allow a woman, any woman, to care for the child, arrange all the visitation, cook, clean, bathe, etc. I'm willing to bet that if they're that way when you're WITH them, they'll be that way when you dump them. Hence, there are pros and cons to XAH's GF. Have I gotten off on a tangent??

Anyway, UnCertainty, what I hear you saying is that you feel stuck having to deal with AXH. Do you also feel stuck having to deal with GF?

LexieCat

I guess what I meant was by referring to it as a "date" it sounds like you were resentful of their relationship. It's a work event, she wants to go with her partner. It isn't like a romantic "getaway" for the two of them.

I'm not trying to criticize how you feel, I just was pointing out how the choice of words came off to me.

I always think that the simplest response, with the least explanation, is desirable in these situations. You don't have to justify your "no".

Let it go, you can handle it differently next time something like this comes up. Quit beating yourself up. We all learn lessons along the way about how to navigate these situations.

theuncertainty

From X's email, but from GF.
My response:
Email from GF:
What am I supposed to do? I cannot go on like this.

Bolina

The GF seems very involved in this whole thing that is really between you and your ex. And why on earth would you rearrange because of her work event? Her enmeshment with your ex (and vice versa) is not your problem.

Stay firm, keep to the court arrangements, I reckon. And return to the wording of those arrangements if you feel that things are slipping out of your control. If they have to pay for a sitter whilst your son is with them, then so be it. You don't have to be that solution. And, please, don't feel guilty. Her tone is smug and patronising. I think she might recognise her situation in these posts: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...special-i.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...pecial-ii.html


Hang in there. You'll find a solution, I know you will.