Quandary...need input
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
Quandary...need input
Hello SR family.
I'd like your input on a particular issue regarding my XAH.
I won't go into too much details, but here's the Coles' Notes version of my story:
-Married to XAH 3 yrs, together 6 yrs.
-Had DD with him
-XAH was a verbally/emotionally abusive cocaine and sleeping pill user, functional alcoholic, ex-con with a criminal record in the US for embezzlement, father of 3 others boys (2 of which he lost custody), a pathological liar and manipulator and a tad delusional.
-Left him Oct. 2009
-Got sole physical and shared legal custody May 2010 (XAH got 3.5 hr visitation)
-Divorced July 2010 (early for cause of mental cruelty)
-Visitations: took place at XAH's place under my supervision at first, and then unsupervised as per my lawyer's advice.
-In April 2010, XAH did a midnight move and refused to tell me where he lived.
-XAH demanded I drop DD off on a street corner
-Eventually XAH told me where he lived but refused to let me inside his place or to tell me who he was living with
-I stopped visitation at the end of May due to his refusal
-XAH disappeared for 2 months
-XAH then began emailing me + my fam about how he deserves to see DD and how he's a great dad; I ignore him but keep the emails.
-December 2010, child support began being deducted directly from XAH's pay (about 110$ per pay).
At this point, I cannot travel out of the country or renew DD's passport without his approval. We have not been in contact since May of last year.
Last Sunday, he sent me and my family an email threatening not to pay CS anymore if I didn't let him see DD. Little does he know that CS is totally out of my hands and that it is deducted from his paycheck whether I like it or not. I was told that CS isn't for me but for DD, so I don't have a choice about it...I put the money in an education fund for DD. I ignored the threatening email as usual.
HOWEVER my family is started to get...triggered by his monthly emails perhaps because the tone has turned nasty. My parents would like me to "do something" about this... as in:
They would like me to contact XAH and offer him the following:
He signs a legally binding document granting me the right to travel with DD and to renew her passport and in exchange, I would send him back the exact amount deducted from his paycheck every month. He still wouldn't see DD but he'd get his precious money back and I could travel with DD.
...
I'm *very* reluctant to do something like this, mostly because it would involve contacting XAH, which terrifies me. I had a lot of trouble cutting contact with him last year, and I'm not sure I could hold my own if I had to negotiate with him. One of my arguments against this idea is that I could get "in trouble", but then again, I could also get into a world of trouble if XAH took me to court for denying him visitation. I generally live in fear of that consequence but considering what I know about XAH, I feel like DD deserve a chance to live a sane life away from him.
My "strategy", if I ever had one, was just to go about my life, ignoring threatening and demanding emails, let DD grow up, not worry about travelling outside the country and perhaps someday, I could obtain a dispensation from the courts. I figured that eventually, XAH would get tired of hounding me, just like he got tired of hounding babymama #3, whose son is now 7 and doesn't remember his dad much at all. I even hoped that he'd find some other poor woman and impregnate her, so he'd finally move on for good.
Suggestions/thoughts?
I'd like your input on a particular issue regarding my XAH.
I won't go into too much details, but here's the Coles' Notes version of my story:
-Married to XAH 3 yrs, together 6 yrs.
-Had DD with him
-XAH was a verbally/emotionally abusive cocaine and sleeping pill user, functional alcoholic, ex-con with a criminal record in the US for embezzlement, father of 3 others boys (2 of which he lost custody), a pathological liar and manipulator and a tad delusional.
-Left him Oct. 2009
-Got sole physical and shared legal custody May 2010 (XAH got 3.5 hr visitation)
-Divorced July 2010 (early for cause of mental cruelty)
-Visitations: took place at XAH's place under my supervision at first, and then unsupervised as per my lawyer's advice.
-In April 2010, XAH did a midnight move and refused to tell me where he lived.
-XAH demanded I drop DD off on a street corner
-Eventually XAH told me where he lived but refused to let me inside his place or to tell me who he was living with
-I stopped visitation at the end of May due to his refusal
-XAH disappeared for 2 months
-XAH then began emailing me + my fam about how he deserves to see DD and how he's a great dad; I ignore him but keep the emails.
-December 2010, child support began being deducted directly from XAH's pay (about 110$ per pay).
At this point, I cannot travel out of the country or renew DD's passport without his approval. We have not been in contact since May of last year.
Last Sunday, he sent me and my family an email threatening not to pay CS anymore if I didn't let him see DD. Little does he know that CS is totally out of my hands and that it is deducted from his paycheck whether I like it or not. I was told that CS isn't for me but for DD, so I don't have a choice about it...I put the money in an education fund for DD. I ignored the threatening email as usual.
HOWEVER my family is started to get...triggered by his monthly emails perhaps because the tone has turned nasty. My parents would like me to "do something" about this... as in:
They would like me to contact XAH and offer him the following:
He signs a legally binding document granting me the right to travel with DD and to renew her passport and in exchange, I would send him back the exact amount deducted from his paycheck every month. He still wouldn't see DD but he'd get his precious money back and I could travel with DD.
...
I'm *very* reluctant to do something like this, mostly because it would involve contacting XAH, which terrifies me. I had a lot of trouble cutting contact with him last year, and I'm not sure I could hold my own if I had to negotiate with him. One of my arguments against this idea is that I could get "in trouble", but then again, I could also get into a world of trouble if XAH took me to court for denying him visitation. I generally live in fear of that consequence but considering what I know about XAH, I feel like DD deserve a chance to live a sane life away from him.
My "strategy", if I ever had one, was just to go about my life, ignoring threatening and demanding emails, let DD grow up, not worry about travelling outside the country and perhaps someday, I could obtain a dispensation from the courts. I figured that eventually, XAH would get tired of hounding me, just like he got tired of hounding babymama #3, whose son is now 7 and doesn't remember his dad much at all. I even hoped that he'd find some other poor woman and impregnate her, so he'd finally move on for good.
Suggestions/thoughts?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
Do you want to leave the country? If you do I would hire an attorney to take care of finding him and getting him to sign whatever it is he has to sign. He might refuse.
What is the worst that can happen surrounding the visitation issue? Might be something to get legal advice on so it isn't hanging over your head as a mysterious cloud of doom.
I would not make any compromises or under the table deals. It has the potential to bite you in the butt.
If he is willing to take the deal your parents offered do it legally and he can sign over all his parental rights and the child support will end forever and he has no legal rights what-so-ever. At least it works that way in the US.
What is the worst that can happen surrounding the visitation issue? Might be something to get legal advice on so it isn't hanging over your head as a mysterious cloud of doom.
I would not make any compromises or under the table deals. It has the potential to bite you in the butt.
If he is willing to take the deal your parents offered do it legally and he can sign over all his parental rights and the child support will end forever and he has no legal rights what-so-ever. At least it works that way in the US.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Agree about blocking the emails. No need to even read them. The delete button is your friend.
As far as negotiating with him, I think negotiating with a delusional control freak is probably a bad idea. Speak to an attorney if you have a desire to change the status quo.
L
As far as negotiating with him, I think negotiating with a delusional control freak is probably a bad idea. Speak to an attorney if you have a desire to change the status quo.
L
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
Parental rights cannot be "given up" here in Quebec. I believe it is done this way to prevent deliquent parents from getting out of their responsibility to pay child support. The only way his rights could be removed from him was if he was a convicted child molester who had tried to molest his own child.
There are two ways to get around automatically deducted child support payments:
1) I sign a form telling the CS office that I believe in XAH's goodwill to send me CS on his own. The first 3 months, XAH sends cheques to the CS office, after which time, they wash their hands of me. If after that point XAH fails to pay CS, then I'm on my own and cannot get help from the CS office.
2) I tell the CS office that automatically deducting child support from XAH is putting my life in danger because he is threatening me. They'll then stop taking CS from his pay.
Aside from that, they'll keep hounding him. If he quits and goes on unemployment, they'll go after that. If he works under the table, they'll seize his bank accounts. They can also go after him in all other Canadian provinces. And since he can't leave the country because his passport was revoked when he went to jail, he's trapped here.
Re the visitation issue...I could be ordered to hand DD over to him to "make up" for missed visitation time. But then again, XAH would have to take me to court for me and so far, he's never dared show up in court because of his criminal record...guess he's afraid of being arrested.
There are two ways to get around automatically deducted child support payments:
1) I sign a form telling the CS office that I believe in XAH's goodwill to send me CS on his own. The first 3 months, XAH sends cheques to the CS office, after which time, they wash their hands of me. If after that point XAH fails to pay CS, then I'm on my own and cannot get help from the CS office.
2) I tell the CS office that automatically deducting child support from XAH is putting my life in danger because he is threatening me. They'll then stop taking CS from his pay.
Aside from that, they'll keep hounding him. If he quits and goes on unemployment, they'll go after that. If he works under the table, they'll seize his bank accounts. They can also go after him in all other Canadian provinces. And since he can't leave the country because his passport was revoked when he went to jail, he's trapped here.
Re the visitation issue...I could be ordered to hand DD over to him to "make up" for missed visitation time. But then again, XAH would have to take me to court for me and so far, he's never dared show up in court because of his criminal record...guess he's afraid of being arrested.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 674
I agree that your family should block him from their email accounts. And I would also seek legal advice.
You are trying to deal rationally with an irrational person. There is no making deals with someone like him. There will always be something else he wants and believes he can bully you into. Stay strong.
You are trying to deal rationally with an irrational person. There is no making deals with someone like him. There will always be something else he wants and believes he can bully you into. Stay strong.
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
You can set up filters on emails to send them directly to the spam or trash folders, so the email is easily dealt with. It's not like he's showing up on people's front steps drunkenly demanding things - thank goodness!
I'd go with what LaTeeDa says, and talk to your lawyer.
I'd go with what LaTeeDa says, and talk to your lawyer.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
OK.. then if he's off the hook for CS by either method, would he really leave you and your family alone? You know him, you're an expert on predicting his behavior and motives. D you believe his insistence on seeing your daughter is based on the CS he pays? Or does he really want to be an involved, non-absent father to her?
BTW, I think he's clearly demonstrated he has no intention to use the legal system.
And.. filter, filter, filter
BTW, I think he's clearly demonstrated he has no intention to use the legal system.
And.. filter, filter, filter
Awakening
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beautiful Texas hillcountry
Posts: 1,272
He has 3 other kids that he doesn't care about, so we know him wanting to spend time with DD is malarkey. So that settles that issue.
I'll take a wild stab in the dark and pick door #2, it's about the money.....it's ALWAYS about the money, because alcoholics rarely have any.
Let's talk about what you can't change. You can't make him stop sending emails. You can't make your parents stop worrying about his emails.
You could send him his money back, then you teach him he can win by threats and intimidation, just like everybody else has his whole pathetic life. Eff that IMHO.
Why not collect all his emails and forward them to your attorney, and if they say give him visitation, fire them, and get a new attorney, and go to court to get sole legal custody?
Use his CS to fund the lawyer, it's at least as important as DD's education. Plus there's a certain irony there, that appeals to me.
Good luck in what ever you decide. FWIW, I still look over my shoulder all the time. I know in my heart that the "clan" is working on a plan to launch a custody coup d'état (how about that French term) any day now.
I think this ongoing "fear" is just part of the karmic payback of making babies with drunks. Reminds me to quit doing it.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
I'll take a wild stab in the dark and pick door #2, it's about the money.....it's ALWAYS about the money, because alcoholics rarely have any.
Let's talk about what you can't change. You can't make him stop sending emails. You can't make your parents stop worrying about his emails.
You could send him his money back, then you teach him he can win by threats and intimidation, just like everybody else has his whole pathetic life. Eff that IMHO.
Why not collect all his emails and forward them to your attorney, and if they say give him visitation, fire them, and get a new attorney, and go to court to get sole legal custody?
Use his CS to fund the lawyer, it's at least as important as DD's education. Plus there's a certain irony there, that appeals to me.
Good luck in what ever you decide. FWIW, I still look over my shoulder all the time. I know in my heart that the "clan" is working on a plan to launch a custody coup d'état (how about that French term) any day now.
I think this ongoing "fear" is just part of the karmic payback of making babies with drunks. Reminds me to quit doing it.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
I haven't told my lawyer, who is off having twins right now, that I have been denying XAH visitation since May. At first it was a safety issue, but eventually, he claimed that he would "do anything" and "agree to anything". Still, how can I send my 2 year old child off to a man who was plotting to murder his own brother and stash the body inside the walls of his house? But, my lawyer and the courts wouldn't understand or support my decision...all that matters are the father's "rights". It doesn't matter one bit that XAH's own mother tells me her son is a psychopath and that she thinks I need to keep him away from DD at all costs.
It's because I'm walking into the realm of illegality that this is so complicated. It's also the only reason I was able to "win" over XAH; he was counting on me following the letter of the law when he never does and always somehow gets away with it. I couldn't let him win where DD is concerned.
It's because I'm walking into the realm of illegality that this is so complicated. It's also the only reason I was able to "win" over XAH; he was counting on me following the letter of the law when he never does and always somehow gets away with it. I couldn't let him win where DD is concerned.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
They would like me to contact XAH and offer him the following:
He signs a legally binding document granting me the right to travel with DD and to renew her passport and in exchange, I would send him back the exact amount deducted from his paycheck every month. He still wouldn't see DD but he'd get his precious money back and I could travel with DD.
He signs a legally binding document granting me the right to travel with DD and to renew her passport and in exchange, I would send him back the exact amount deducted from his paycheck every month. He still wouldn't see DD but he'd get his precious money back and I could travel with DD.
Your family members are responsible for setting healthy and appropriate boundaries for themselves. Changing your email address, not answering the phone, and changing your phone number are simple matters. If they don't like what he says, they have the option of not reading his emails.
Awakening
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beautiful Texas hillcountry
Posts: 1,272
Originally Posted by Jazzman 
If he was off the hook for CS and agreed to waive all parental rights.. would he really leave you alone?
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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Originally Posted by coyote21
I think this ongoing "fear" is just part of the karmic payback of making babies with drunks. Reminds me to quit doing it.
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
your family wanting to have no contact with him is a seperate issue to a) visitation and b) CS.
if they feel harrassed, they can delete his emails or file a harassment suit against him this is nothing to do with you, if he thinks that contact with them is the way to get a response from you, he's not going to leave them alone, he'll ramp up contacting them.
you need to talk to a lawyer, if he can't sign away his PR, then any "deal" you might do re cash and visitation relies on his good-will to keep to it. in your experience how good is he at keeping his word? if he signed away DDs rights to travel and at the same time you returned his CS, a good lawyer could work an argument that he only agreed because of duress of financial circumstances....
How long did it take him to "give up" on his other kids, how long do you think it will be before he gets someone new pregnant?
You were talking about filing for abandonment in a couple of years, I know you don't want this hanging over you, but right now, the only immediate issue appears to be him harassing your family, and that is their fight.
if they feel harrassed, they can delete his emails or file a harassment suit against him this is nothing to do with you, if he thinks that contact with them is the way to get a response from you, he's not going to leave them alone, he'll ramp up contacting them.
you need to talk to a lawyer, if he can't sign away his PR, then any "deal" you might do re cash and visitation relies on his good-will to keep to it. in your experience how good is he at keeping his word? if he signed away DDs rights to travel and at the same time you returned his CS, a good lawyer could work an argument that he only agreed because of duress of financial circumstances....
How long did it take him to "give up" on his other kids, how long do you think it will be before he gets someone new pregnant?
You were talking about filing for abandonment in a couple of years, I know you don't want this hanging over you, but right now, the only immediate issue appears to be him harassing your family, and that is their fight.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Originally Posted by JenT1968
the only immediate issue appears to be him harassing your family, and that is their fight.
Is that feasible?
Or can they get different email accounts?
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Jazzman...my father, who has a heart condition, has managed to get used to it. He won't change his email because it's linked to his business, which I fully understand. My mother can't change her work email but she could set up filters. It's my mother's sister who is freaking out...but she's a world class codie, if there ever was one. She doesn't dare talk to me about XAH, but she gives my mother an earfull everytime she receives another email.
My mother is the one who came up with "the plan", mostly because she knows I'd like to go to Europe in 2 years and I would like to bring DD to see her family in CA and NV at some point.
BUT I can handle not leaving the country for several years if it means keeping DD safe from XAH's influence.
I guess it can't hurt to just consult a lawyer about the situation; I'm just so afraid to tell anyone IRL about this because I know it's not on the legal side of things.
My mother is the one who came up with "the plan", mostly because she knows I'd like to go to Europe in 2 years and I would like to bring DD to see her family in CA and NV at some point.
BUT I can handle not leaving the country for several years if it means keeping DD safe from XAH's influence.
I guess it can't hurt to just consult a lawyer about the situation; I'm just so afraid to tell anyone IRL about this because I know it's not on the legal side of things.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 427
Um, don't send him the money. I'm not sure how taxes work in Canada, but here, if you are getting that income, you have to claim it as income. If you give it back to him, you still have to claim it as income. Not fair to you, not at all. I could be totally off.......I have no idea how Canada works, just saying that's what would happen in the US.
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Talk to your attorney.
Even if he can't give up parental rights completely, I believe you could get full legal and physical custody of DD, which would give you the rights to make all decisions for her (including getting a passport, but I might be wrong about that).
As for the nasty e-mails, I would set up a filter that puts them all into a specific folder, and I would archive that folder and back it up. It does not sound like a safe visitation situation for your DD, and if you want to go after no visitations, it's always good to have a paper trail that show his instability.
Even if he can't give up parental rights completely, I believe you could get full legal and physical custody of DD, which would give you the rights to make all decisions for her (including getting a passport, but I might be wrong about that).
As for the nasty e-mails, I would set up a filter that puts them all into a specific folder, and I would archive that folder and back it up. It does not sound like a safe visitation situation for your DD, and if you want to go after no visitations, it's always good to have a paper trail that show his instability.
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