Just when you thought you'd heard it all...
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Sorry, Lexie, I bet you're in bed already. Just a new level of emotional blackmail against small children. Steam coming out my ears. I'm afraid I'm dealing with something even more insidious than alcoholism here. 
Awakening
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beautiful Texas hillcountry
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Originally Posted by lillamy 
Sorry, Lexie, I bet you're in bed already. Just a new level of emotional blackmail against small children. Steam coming out my ears. I'm afraid I'm dealing with something even more insidious than alcoholism here.
I don't see how "grown a$$ed" adults can justify that kind of crap in their tiny minds. It boggles mine.
Well, when the kids are grown they gotta have something to talk to their therapists about, I guess.
LMC's gmaw, who I consider one of the lesser evils from the "clan", actually left a message the other day, "Well, since you haven't called me in a while, I guess you're mad at me". This kid has serious abandonment issues and LMC was devastated all weekend, even AFTER calling. Gmaws mad at me, gmaws mad at me, she was visibly shaken by the stress.
It'd been about a week between calls, life happens for christ's sake. Not to mention, I'm walking around behind her with a mop, cleaning up the fallout, thanks so much. We had nothing better to do.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 566
(((lillamy)))
Yup, I get it, too. And exH's not an alcoholic in the classic sense. It's the narcissism that wreaks the most havoc.
I'm so sorry. I'm not remembering the age of your kids, but if they can do Alateen I highly recommend it. My kids are seeing through their father's BS in a whole new way, simply by using the Alateen tools. They are amazed at what they're understanding about the way he works, and I'm thrilled.
Remember, lillamy, they have YOU. Can you imagine if they didn't? (shudder...) Keep being a stable presence in their lives and they will be okay, despite how difficult it is to watch the process.
Hugs,
posie
Yup, I get it, too. And exH's not an alcoholic in the classic sense. It's the narcissism that wreaks the most havoc.
I'm so sorry. I'm not remembering the age of your kids, but if they can do Alateen I highly recommend it. My kids are seeing through their father's BS in a whole new way, simply by using the Alateen tools. They are amazed at what they're understanding about the way he works, and I'm thrilled.
Remember, lillamy, they have YOU. Can you imagine if they didn't? (shudder...) Keep being a stable presence in their lives and they will be okay, despite how difficult it is to watch the process.
Hugs,
posie
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
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Some people are raised not to know any other way: it just doesn't even register that its emotional blackmail, and you're using it on a child.
When my son was 4 my step-mum bought him and her grandkids tickets to go to a pantomime after christmas, it was done out of love, and because she thought he'd enjoy it, as all hers do. It was announced as a surprise gift. She/my dad didn't check with me, if they had I'd have told her not to bother because he was scared of theatres, dark, big, lots of people and noisy: we'd previously taken him to movie theatres and not got past the door, in a museum trip for pre-school he'd had to leave and sit out with a teacher he was so distressed by an exhibit in the dark, organised bonfire parties were too much for him, we'd spent lots of money on various activities that were never attended becasue he wa too scared. We didn't push it, we occaissonally offered the opportunity to see if he wanted to try again.
but they didn't know this so fair enough, he was asked if he wanted to go and said no. I gently explored whether there was anything I could do to help him go and have a good time (go with him and he could sit on my knee, sit at the back?) but he was adamant that he didn't want to go - fair enough.
To my horror all merry hell broke loose, Step-mum tried to persuade him to go, dad tried to persuade him to go, the older grandkids took it on themselves to try and persuade him to come because they'd be sad if he didn't go (I came accross them and told them to back off and dial down the emotional blackmail), my father angrily told me that my FOUR YEAR OLD SON had to learn to do nice things for other people sometimes: er hello? he does do nice things for other people and I thought the point of this was to do something nice for him? if he doesn't want to go, because he's terrified then it's not nice for him. I offered to pay for the ticket that wouldn't be used (that I hadn't requested) and was told that was beside the point....
The only person who saw anything at all wrong with this picture was me (and him), and I wish I had managed to get in there before all the pressure started. At no point was any of them stopping to think to see if this was justified, they weren't making excuses, they were just acting on automatic, all convinced that if he just went along he'd have a great time and prepared to use whatever tactics worked to get him there to have that great time.
bleugh, its never happened since from them, but WTF?
When my son was 4 my step-mum bought him and her grandkids tickets to go to a pantomime after christmas, it was done out of love, and because she thought he'd enjoy it, as all hers do. It was announced as a surprise gift. She/my dad didn't check with me, if they had I'd have told her not to bother because he was scared of theatres, dark, big, lots of people and noisy: we'd previously taken him to movie theatres and not got past the door, in a museum trip for pre-school he'd had to leave and sit out with a teacher he was so distressed by an exhibit in the dark, organised bonfire parties were too much for him, we'd spent lots of money on various activities that were never attended becasue he wa too scared. We didn't push it, we occaissonally offered the opportunity to see if he wanted to try again.
but they didn't know this so fair enough, he was asked if he wanted to go and said no. I gently explored whether there was anything I could do to help him go and have a good time (go with him and he could sit on my knee, sit at the back?) but he was adamant that he didn't want to go - fair enough.
To my horror all merry hell broke loose, Step-mum tried to persuade him to go, dad tried to persuade him to go, the older grandkids took it on themselves to try and persuade him to come because they'd be sad if he didn't go (I came accross them and told them to back off and dial down the emotional blackmail), my father angrily told me that my FOUR YEAR OLD SON had to learn to do nice things for other people sometimes: er hello? he does do nice things for other people and I thought the point of this was to do something nice for him? if he doesn't want to go, because he's terrified then it's not nice for him. I offered to pay for the ticket that wouldn't be used (that I hadn't requested) and was told that was beside the point....
The only person who saw anything at all wrong with this picture was me (and him), and I wish I had managed to get in there before all the pressure started. At no point was any of them stopping to think to see if this was justified, they weren't making excuses, they were just acting on automatic, all convinced that if he just went along he'd have a great time and prepared to use whatever tactics worked to get him there to have that great time.
bleugh, its never happened since from them, but WTF?
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Originally Posted by lillamy
Sorry, Lexie, I bet you're in bed already. Just a new level of emotional blackmail against small children. Steam coming out my ears. I'm afraid I'm dealing with something even more insidious than alcoholism here.
I'm so sorry your kids are experiencing this. I KNOW how you feel. My AH does this in front of me with our little ones, I can only imagine what it will be like when we are no longer together.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
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And they don't get any ******* better with age. I am on the phone with my 70+ year old mother who has been living with my AF all these decades and I tell you he only gets WORSE. I wish the hell she would leave him but she won't. Her life will be MISERABLE until the day she dies and I just shake my head about her staying with him just as much as I shake my head about him continuing to drink.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sweet Virginia
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As an ACA, I have been that child. Its terrible and I am sorry to say that it does have long term effects...hence here I am many years later trying to "fix" myself. I wish there was a way to insulate children from this, but there isn't. So frustrating. Sorry that any of your children are suffering (lillamy, coyote21, etc...). The little girl in me understands completely.
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Thank you all.
See, I'm newly divorced enough that I'm used to being there and being able to defend the kids in situations like these. Now I can't. And it's incredibly painful and hard to hear them come home with new levels of crazy planted into their little hearts.
The kid I'm most worried about right now is 9. Too young for Ala-Teen.
See, I'm newly divorced enough that I'm used to being there and being able to defend the kids in situations like these. Now I can't. And it's incredibly painful and hard to hear them come home with new levels of crazy planted into their little hearts.
The kid I'm most worried about right now is 9. Too young for Ala-Teen.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
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Me too Codie101, I am right there with you. The way I think and the way I see the world is different because of that upbringing and I know it. But there are only certain things you can change about yourself.
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Learn2Live...amen to that! That's why I am here. I am emotionally tired of feeling this way. Now that I have realized how the heck I got this way, I am going to work very hard to stop it and let that little girl in me finally grow up and feel safe and loved. Its going to take a lot of time but she is holding me back from peace and happiness. Until she is at peace, I will never get there.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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lillamy...bottomline, the child needs to feel safe and unconditionally loved. It is so scarey as a child to think you are not safe. Life was crazy for me from the beginning and very unstable. I think they safer and more secure you can make the child feel the better. If the children are little, I think giving them consistent re-enforcement is key - living in the same house, going to the same school, being consistent in your response, always being there for them no matter what, trying not to be overly controlling (letting them be kids) - all essential. My mother actually told me more than once that "sometimes you just can't be there for your kids..." HUH????? Not something any mother/parent should say to a child.
I hope this helps?!
I hope this helps?!
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Thank you, Codie, that does help -- it reinforces my gut reaction. One of my kids said something pretty telling yesterday -- she said "if I lived with you full time, Dad would be miserable, and if I lived with him full time, I would miss you too much."
Which tells me that she's feeling safe and secure and able to be a kid at my house, and is the Caretaker at his house. Which is so, so, so, so wrong. And at this point, even if I could, I'm not sure how healthy it would be for her to remove her from his care. She's terrified that he's going to harm himself when she's not there. She's NINE, for crying out loud, and feels like the well-being of her adult father is her responsibility.
I just want a functioning ****** doll for that man.
Which tells me that she's feeling safe and secure and able to be a kid at my house, and is the Caretaker at his house. Which is so, so, so, so wrong. And at this point, even if I could, I'm not sure how healthy it would be for her to remove her from his care. She's terrified that he's going to harm himself when she's not there. She's NINE, for crying out loud, and feels like the well-being of her adult father is her responsibility.
I just want a functioning ****** doll for that man.
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Well, lillamy,
As an ACA, I wish I had someone to talk to period.
Keeping secrets is sick.
Keeping secrets kept me sick.
If you can possible do it, I would get a counselor who specializes in addiction.
Of course, they would have to be able to talk to children too.
someone from the outside of the family who can say,
"what you say here stays here."
my mother was depressed, so i could not talk to her,
and my father was drunk all the time and scary.
thank god your kids have you.
as an ACA, i was very attuned to my mother's emotions.
if i told her something, i remember very little if any response, or a deeply sad face,
that i felt i caused.
i am rambling now.
Beth
As an ACA, I wish I had someone to talk to period.
Keeping secrets is sick.
Keeping secrets kept me sick.
If you can possible do it, I would get a counselor who specializes in addiction.
Of course, they would have to be able to talk to children too.
someone from the outside of the family who can say,
"what you say here stays here."
my mother was depressed, so i could not talk to her,
and my father was drunk all the time and scary.
thank god your kids have you.
as an ACA, i was very attuned to my mother's emotions.
if i told her something, i remember very little if any response, or a deeply sad face,
that i felt i caused.
i am rambling now.
Beth
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A functioning ****** doll....hmmmmmmm now that's a thought!
She doesn't deserve to be his caretaker at 9 years old. What a burden for a child that age! at the same time, i don't think that she should NOT see him. I didn't see my father from the time I was 4 and it left me without a lot of unanswered questions and more abandonment issues. I think she needs to feel safe and secure at least with you and see him but she will need to have some sort of counselling when she gets older. I think she may, if she hasn't already, develop codependent issues bc of her dad.
wow...my heart goes out to her. It is so hard to be the caretaker when you are just a kid. so hard.
She doesn't deserve to be his caretaker at 9 years old. What a burden for a child that age! at the same time, i don't think that she should NOT see him. I didn't see my father from the time I was 4 and it left me without a lot of unanswered questions and more abandonment issues. I think she needs to feel safe and secure at least with you and see him but she will need to have some sort of counselling when she gets older. I think she may, if she hasn't already, develop codependent issues bc of her dad.
wow...my heart goes out to her. It is so hard to be the caretaker when you are just a kid. so hard.
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