NikNox

Hello everyone. Okay, I'll just tell it how it is. I am married to the father of a beautiful girl whose mother is alcoholic. My stepdaughter is 12 now, and we have been married for 8 years. My husband left her mother when she was just 3 years old, as he couldn't take any more. His ex was a heroin addict, but she recovered from that and became an alcoholic.

We have many issues, mainly though our concerns are centred around her care of his daughter. We are in the UK, and have involved Social Services many times, but they don't do anything because they simply believe mum when she says she isn't alcoholic.

Just recently we've had cause to involve them again. Mum is epileptic, that epilepsy being caused through alcoholism. She is poorly controlled on Epilim (Sodium Valproate) and fits regularly. A year ago her GP told her she has to stop drinking otherwise she will die, but she has not done so. Very recently she was hospitalised due to 2 very bad fits, and has told my stepdaughter that she must stop drinking because the alcohol doesn't mix with her tablets. However, she hasn't stopped drinking and has changed her story to she has to drink as it's not safe to stop, and is therefore drinking a can of lager a day (at least that's what she's told her daughter).

My stepdaughter is neglected to a certain degree. Constant headlice are a problem, and always have been. We do our bit, but once a fortnight, when we have contact with her, isn't enough to keep them at bay. My stepdaughter often arrives for contact dirty and smelling too, but Social Services have told us that these are not causes for concern. We are pushing Social Services to do a more in depth assessment of her drinking, and to contact her GP, but they are saying there is no need.

We contact the National Association for Children of Alcoholics a few months ago and obtained literature and leaflets for my stepdaughter, which she has read but has handed back.

It's a very difficult situation. My husband's ex partner is not easy to get on with and her life is chaotic and unpredictable. She is unable to cope with day to day issues, and falls short in many areas of parenting, particularly financially. She doesn't work, never has done and so relies on benefits. She is adept at lying and covering her tracks, and my stepdaughter is fiercely loyal to her mother, protective of her. We understand that, and appreciate it and have read up on how children of alcoholics behave. My stepdaughter is the parent in their relationship, her mother is the child.

We just don't know where to turn or what to do. If we were to apply to the Family Courts for residency my stepdaughter would say she wishes to stay with her mother. We do provide her with respite however, fortnightly and for half of all school holidays, in a home where drugs and alcohol are not used and she is free to be a child, without any responsibility. Oh, mum also uses drugs daily, mainly cannabis.

I've come here for advice, or to meet others in the same position. It's like banging your head against a brick wall for most of the time, but we are so worried about this little girl and don't know what else we can do to protect her.

Thanks for reading this.

lc1972

Welcome,

So sorry for what brings you here, addiction is very ugly. The system in the UK is much different than here in the states. My husband is from England and the father I am told typically does not have much say. I would maybe suggest writing everything down with dates and such. If you are at any time to try and get custody I think you will need this and proof if possible. Not sure if the school your step-daughter attends will give you written statements about appearance and performance. I would imagine with not much supervision she has probably missed school days.

I am hoping someone who is more familiar with how your system works will see your post.

I will be thinking and prayer for you and your family

cmc

Hello NikNox, welcome to SR.

I don't know about the law where you live but perhaps you can find another social service agency in addition to NACA; where your stepdaughter (plus you & her dad) can get some counseling and support.

This way there would be a third party to witness what has been going on. Perhaps the NACA can direct you to more resources? Contacting an attorney might also be a good next step.

In additon to coming here to SR you might want to try some Al-Anon meetings; it's a great means of support and information. Your stepdaughter could benefit from some meetings as well; Ala-teen would be a good place to start.


Your stepdaughter is fortunate to have two caring adults such you and your husband, in her life.

NikNox

Thank you for your replies. It's very difficult, because any support we want to offer is likely to be met with resistance by her mother. Mum is in denial for the most part, and honestly believes that her behaviour does not affect her children (she also has a son, by another man). She doesn't think there's anything wrong with my stepdaughter being her 'mother', and will not accept any help offered for herself, let alone for her daughter. My stepdaughter also lives 20 miles away from us, and mum is reluctant, always, to allow contact outside of what has been ordered by the Courts (fortnightly weekend contact and half of school holidays), so even if my stepdaughter were interested in Al-Ateen, mum is very unlikely to agree to her going.

We are very concerned about the effects of this that are not yet apparent. Sadly, mum's father was alcoholic (he died from alcoholism), and 2 of her brothers are also alcoholic. I did a year's work at a local Rehab Centre a few years back, and am aware that there is a genetic link to alcoholism, so of course we are extremely worried that my stepdaughter could also take to drink. She's just 12, and when she hits 13, 14 years old and all those teenage hormones start coming with a vengeance, well, it doesn't need saying what could happen. We want to try and stem that, if possible, but it's very very difficult to get through to mum and if Social Services aren't concerned (why????), then they won't be offering support to the family either.

We fear this child could end up in a very dangerous situation, and feel powerless to do anything about it. Hopefully someone more UK based could offer advice here, but all advice and comments very gratefully received.

Thank you.

NikNox

Thank you for your kind words, they are much appreciated. You're right in that the father doesn't have much say in this country, although he does have something called Parental Responsibility, which he had to gain via a Court Order. Fortunately the law has now changed so all unmarried fathers of children born after December 2003 now have automatic PR. That entitles him to receive information about his child from schools, doctors, social services etc., and entitles him to be involved in major decisions affecting a child's life, i.e. religion, schooling, medical needs etc., but not much else to be honest. It certainly doesn't entitle him to keep his daughter with us for her own safety, which it should do in my opinion. It does mean that Social Services are meant to inform him of all that is going on with their investigations, but sadly Social Services in this country fall short of most of their 'guidelines'. We have been reporting concerns about this child for 8 years now, and so far nothing has been done. They visit mum, ask her if she's an alcoholic, she says 'no' and they believe her. End of story. They write an assessment to that effect and that's that, no proof. It would be pointless going before a judge with a bunch of paperwork that just says 'no cause for concern'. They don't seem to understand that addicts are adept at lying either, and take what she says on face value and disbelieve what my husband tells them, preferring to mark him as a 'troublemaker'. Nothing could be further from the truth, and that's the frustration. There isn't even an overwhelming desire to remove this child from her mother (I know that sounds weird, but all my husband really wants is for his child to be cared for properly) because she does seem to love her mum very much, and is, as I said before, very protective of her. What he DOES want however, is to ensure that the family has support, especially his daughter, which we believe she needs not just whilst her mother is alcoholic but would also need should her mother decide to recover. After all, isn't recovery a long hard battle, one which could have a detrimental affect on the children in the household.

I don't know, it seems we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. All we want, all we have ever wanted, is to help this child cope with her life and try to make things better for her. We do feel sure that one day she will vote with her feet and could well end up living with us anyway, and that she could well end up hating her mother for how she's been all these years, but for now we really want to cushion the blows that this little girl is being dealt.

How is the question .....

lc1972

Hi again NikNox,

My teenage niece just went to live with my brother 4 months before her High School Graduation. Which meens she now has to change schools and leave all her friends including a great boyfriend. She stuck by her mother through it all and has A's and B's in school and works part time. She has just moved in with my brother because her alcoholic mother bit her own lip to make it bleed and called the police on her and had her arrested for assault. Then her mother called my brother and said to him HAHAHA I just had your bit** of a daughter arrested all while slurring her words. The sad part it this was not the worst of what my niece has been through. She never wanted to leave because of her younger sister!!! She felt it was her place to take care of her and protect her. Not sure if this may be the same kind of situation going on over there. Siblings tend to take a certain role in a chemically induced household.

I will also tell you I grew up in an chemically induced household and I am now very aware of the roles I filled. One of which was protecting my younger siblings and also taking on the role of parent. I cooked, cleaned whatever needed to be done. I am also now married to an addict. I am currently reading a book that actually describes what it is like to grow up in a home like this and explains how we end up in certain roles as adults. I would suggest the more you educate yourself on the affect of it that the more help you can be. Meetings, reading, this site and counseling are things I am doing so at least my behavior will not have such an impact on my children.

I also did know about what little control and say the fathers have due to my brother in-law who is going through something very similar. My prayers are with you, your husband and your step-daughter.

Codie101

I have read this thread with a heavy heart. There must be something that can be done legally for your stepdaughter. I have studied family law in the US, which I am sure is different than the UK but many of our legal premises are based on UK law. I would suggest speaking with an attorney. I know in the US your H would be able to petition the court for more visitation and/or custody. The court would appoint a Guardian ad litem. Investigations would be done. You could even force the mother to have a psych eval/drug test. Again, I don't know if that is possible in UK. For the sake of your stepdaughter, I think speaking to counsel would help determine what your options are.

As to your stepdaughter defending her mother: I am the ACOA of an ACOA. My mother didn't drink but all characteristics of an alcoholic. Despite horrible things that went on when I was young, I would defend my mother to the end. She was all I had. She was all I really knew. I was used to being in that crazy situation. Change was NOT my friend as a child. If you told me that you were taking me away from her, I would have refused. My codependency had long developed by the time I was 12. I would never have turned on her. I was deeply afraid of her and even more afraid of being abandoned by her and being left all alone. Your stepdaughter will not turn on her mother. Solution? IDK - I think she needs to go to therapy - even if its only when she visits you. She needs to hear from an objective 3rd party who is not threatening to upset her world. She needs to be educated on codependency and ACOA and alcoholism.

I am now 44 yrs old. I have made poor life choices in terms of my relationships all my life. I basically become involved with men who were like my mother. Alcoholics, narcissists, codependents... AND have just this past week realized what was going on with me. I hope you are able to get help for your stepdaughter before she has serious life choices to make.

I wish you all the best.

NikNox

Ic, it's a mirror image. You have great insight, but that's because you've been through it all yourself. One question, you say you are now married to an addict? Do you think that's because it's what you've known, and even though you know that was wrong, you maybe want to try and fix someone because you couldn't fix your own parent/s? I don't mean to pry, but I'm just interested in the dynamics and how they affect you as an adult.

Truth is, my stepdaughter will become an adult, and like you said we need to educate ourselves as to what to expect, potentially. She certainly is a little mother to her brother, who is nearly 7. She was looking after him when he was a baby, and used to moan that she had difficulty getting him out of his cot when he got bigger, so she could take him downstairs and get his breakfast, and then keep him entertained so as not to wake their mother (she didn't like being woken early). It has always seemed that there's been an awful lot of 'treading on eggshells' in their household, not to mention the chores my stepdaughter has to do. She does earn pocket money from doing the chores, £2.50 per week which is probably about $5 (at a rough guess), but the chores she has to do are beyond what most kids her age would do. She also finds it hard to accept gifts, or money, and always says she cannot accept a gift or money unless she's earned it. She's getting a bit better now because we've literally drummed into her that we buy her things because we want to and because we can, but it's still there. She never used to write a Christmas list, and would usually say she didn't want anything at all for Christmas, and last year, for the first time, she wrote a list for things which exceeded the budget we'd set. We felt like singing from the rooftops!! It was a real breakthrough! She's even started asking for things when out shopping, like sweets or smallish items that girls her age want. But, it's still far from how a girl of 12 would normally behave.

She is fiercely loyal to her brother, as well as her mother, and that's another reason why gaining custody of her would be difficult. At her age, she would be asked in Court what she wants to do, and right now she would, without doubt, say she wants to stay with her mum, simply because she feels so responsible for her and her brother. We just couldn't put her through that, it's not fair, which is why we have to find other ways of helping her to cope.

MsPINKAcres

What a heartbreaking situation for this young girl. How frustrating it must be for you and her dad.

I wonder if her school teachers, counselors and other personnel see the signs. Maybe ya'll could start working with them to see about helping her. If her physical appearance is affected the teachers may pick up on that and if her dad approaches them that he has concerns - they may be willing to help or voice their concerns with him.

I know that he would have to approach it cautiously as you don't want to be accused of slander by saying the mother is an alcoholic - but maybe he could say it appears she has some issues that are affecting her ability to provide all the care that the daughter needs.

I agree with the suggestions on seeking Legal council from someone in your area that may know how to help - possibly attending some Al-Anon meetings or even OPEN AA meetings in your town may share some experience, strength and hope to give you and your partner some direction.

PINK HUGS,
Rita

NikNox

Codie, sadly there is nothing legally that can be done. We have been down that road and there's nothing. Family Law in this country is archaic at best, and Child Protection Services are a joke, seriously. But, I see what you're saying, and we're saying the same. We know she won't leave her mum, we know she is co-dependent and has been probably since she was 4, and we know how unhealthy it is. Our constant support is our GP, who is also my boss (I work for the NHS, have done for 15 years, in a GP Surgery), and my stepdaughter has seen her several times for certain health issues (ironically, or maybe not, she has asked US to take her to a GP when she has been concerned about her health). She hasn't spoken to our GP about her mum and her alcoholism, but our GP is fully aware of the situation and has even contacted Social Services herself (to no avail). Our GP wanted to refer my stepdaughter to an organisation called Young Carers, and also to a Child Psychiatrist, but the problem with that is that appointments would fall during the week which would involve taking her to them, and her mother would never agree. Her mother would not agree to extra contact during the week either, so it's not as if we could simply collect her, take her to an appointment and not tell her mother what she's doing (that said, my stepdaughter wouldn't want to betray her mother in that way either), so it's very very difficult. Because of the way school holidays work here (a week off every 6 weeks, then 2 weeks at Easter, 5 weeks in the Summer and 2 weeks at Christmas), it would be possible to take her to one appointment during the time we have her, but we wouldn't be able to keep the appointments regular. This is why we were really hoping that this sort of support could be suggested to mum by the Social Worker, or that the Social Worker could insist mum agrees to my stepdaughter having support, but it doesn't look as if this will happen. We are contemplating a formal complaint to Social Services because something has to be done.

NikNox

Thanks Pink, we have written to the school, which she has only been at since last September, and have asked them to contact my husband should they have concerns. We have also told them about the lice, and they say they've spoken to her mother about them, but it's not worked, as usual. To her credit, my stepdaughter does very well at school, it's a haven for her we think, although she has started to say that some children pick on her because of her headlice, and they also call her 'weird'. Kids can be cruel, we know that, and at senior school (11-18) it can get a lot worse. We will contact the school again, or even arrange a meeting with them which I think would be better.

As for us attending Al-Anon meetings, that's a very good idea. We need help too, in understanding the illness and how we can help this child.

Codie101

I truly wish you all the best. I know it must be very difficult for you and her Dad. I would definitely explore filing a formal complaint against her for child neglect. I understand your laws are different and I am somewhat disappointed as a law school grad to hear that UK is not addressing the legal needs of its children. Very frustrating. Please keep posting. Again, I wish you all the best.

NikNox

Thanks Codie, very much indeed. The complaint will be against Social Services and their failings to adhere to their own guidelines, which are posted on the internet for anyone to see, and their failure to recognise that there are in fact 2 children in need in that household. I don't know if you are aware of a very high profile failing of Social Services in the UK in the case of Baby P (Google it), but the guidelines were rewritten so that it didn't happen again.

The law in this country is an ass I'm afraid, especially when it comes to Family Law. But, there's not a lot we can do to change it so we have to accept it. What we can do is try and improve the life of this very important girl, who we both love with all our hearts, and I certainly love as much as I do my own children. I will do for her what I have done for them, and I have told her that. At least that gives her something to cling on to, plus of course her father's unconditional love.

Don't worry, I will keep posting. Now I've found this wonderful site, I will contribute whenever and wherever I feel I can offer something

lc1972

Hi NikNox,

I actually never dated an addict or anyone I thought drank too much prior to meeting my husband. When I met my husband he had been clean nearly two years. My experience with recovery was my dad went to rehab for 30 days and did not drink again for about 25 years. my dad then started again but stopped and I have not asked why. I feel he knew he could not control it still and stopped on his own. So what I knew was that addicts recover, which they do but they also relapse. I will say I fell right back into that co-dependant role with my husband though. I never saw it coming the small changes in me along the way in response to things he was saying and his behavior. I have only been dealing with knowing about his relapse for 4 months, but sensed something was going on for a while and was right. My husbands attitude and behavior towards me has been strange for over a year. He told me he started using again in May, but I don't believe him. I pretty much don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth even though he is on suboxone now.

I can also say that to this day I have to go through a period of guilt when I buy something for myself. The book I am reading has quotes from people stating the same thing. How they never feel they can ask for anything or want anything. I thankfully talk my way through and get what I want. I am learning more about myself everyday. Not sure what kind of participation you can get from a teenager to read up on this, but maybe if you word it the right way?? She will not want to hear that her mom is bad in anyway at all. If you even say we know you have a lot of responsibility because of your moms drinking that will be what she hears "moms bad". It will most likely turn her off instantly.

Her mom has a medical condition also you stated and children become co-dependant for that reason also. If you can approach it in that way she may want to do some reading on it or see someone and talk. A medical condition is not her mom's fault, so it may be a way to start.

I would suggest a child counselor, but also realize that they are not that popular there as I have been told by my husband and his family. If you can find a good one they may have some other approaches for you to use. If she was to read on co-dependancy I think she would see herself in the words. Just understanding the situation and yourself in it helps a lot with stress and anxiety.

Again prayers for you and yours

NikNox

Hi Lc, thanks for your reply. I hadn't meant to pry, I was just interested because I'm trying to understand all the intricacies that addiction brings, not just to those who are addicted but to those around them. It's effects are far reaching.

We made sure that we didn't portray my stepdaughter's mother as 'bad'. Far from it in fact. My stepdaughter, when we spoke to her, said she was scared of telling the Social Worker the truth because her mum would go to prison. We assured her that her mum would not go to prison, and that she had an illness which she couldn't help, and told her her mum hadn't done anything wrong. The epilepsy is alcohol induced (diagnosed when my husband was with her), and the tablets she is taking don't mix with alcohol, hence the fits. My stepdaughter is 'trained' to deal with these fits, but she finds them frightening and isn't allowed to call an ambulance, although we told her back last year that really she should call an ambulance when mummy has a fit so that the hospital doctors can see why they're happening. The fits that required admission happened when my stepdaughter was with us, and the neighbour called the ambulance, hence the admission, if that makes sense.

We have always been very careful not to denigrate mum in any way, such is the fragility of the situation. However, now that she's 12 and aware of what's going on, we cannot brush things under the carpet to her anymore. We realise her accepting help is another hurdle, but we have to try don't we.

Thanks for your prayers, they are welcomed very much indeed.

NikNox

Little update. I posted on another thread that I had contacted my ex partner's sister, who is very high up in Social Services, but in a different area, so therefore unable to get directly involved. She's advised us in the past and given valuable guidance. Anyway, I emailed her with the current situation and asked for her advice, and also about the complaints procedure. She is absolutely disgusted with how my husband seems to be being kept in the dark, and agreed that procedures aren't being followed. She said at the very least a Core Assessment needs to be done here, which involved wider family members, partners etc., and involves working out which services can be involved with the family, such as Carers Support for the children, possibly psychiatric services etc. She said that Social Workers should never take one parent's word, and if an allegation of substance misuse has been made, particularly on several occasions, then that must be investigated thoroughly and the effects of it on the children investigated thoroughly too. She said that the other parent (if parents are separated) must be kept fully informed throughout any process, and that's statutory. She has advised we write to the SW again, asking for a swift response and a Core Assessment, and to ask them to explain their reasons why if a Core Assessment isn't agreed to, in writing. She's told us to complain if we haven't heard back within 10 days, and if no joy after that to forward her the name of the SW and the Team Manager. So, good to have her on side, albeit in the background.

I've just emailed her back with a copy of our letter to the SW attached to see what she says about it, and will only send it with her approval.

I will keep you all posted. Onwards and upwards, and it's about time Social Services realised that we aint giving up on this child!

StarCat

Good luck! I'll be praying for you!

NikNox

Right, here's something I really do not understand, at all. Most of what happens with my husband's ex I kind of understand, the vileness, aggressiveness, memory loss (i.e. denying she's said things or denying he's asked her things, even when we have texts as proof!!!), but this thing really gets me and I find myself pondering it obsessively. So, can anyone help with trying to explain, perhaps those who have lived with, or are living with alcoholics.

My husband's ex knows we are critical of her care of my stepdaughter. If my ex had ever criticised me for how the boys appeared when he collected them for contact, then there's no way they would ever appear that way again (a dirty shirt, or grubby face, that kind of thing). Last Tuesday, stepdaughter's birthday and we were having her. The night before my husband texted his ex and asked her, very politely, if she could ensure his daughter's hair was clean and deloused for her party, because we wouldn't have time to do it. She texted back and said that she didn't need telling when daughter's hair needed washing, and that daughter didn't have nits. True enough, on the Tuesday her hair was reasonable (didn't check for nits, but she was scratching so I kept the other girls away from her head, if that makes sense). On Friday he collected her for weekend contact and her hair was manky, greasy and she was full of headlice.

What I don't get is why this woman doesn't think to herself 'F him, I'll show him I can care for her. I'll show him I can wash her hair and deal with her lice. Then he can go shove it'. Why doesn't she want to prove herself right, and prove us wrong? Why does she seemingly want to fuel our knowledge that she isn't caring for her daughter properly? It's always been the same, and I really, really don't get it. A few years back, before my husband passed his driving test, he used to go and get his daughter on the bus. He arrived at their home to collect her one Saturday morning, and both his daughter and mum came to the door. This was 11am. As soon as he saw his daughter he could see lice literally on top of her hair, not underneath, and there was one crawling down her forehead. He looked at his ex, then his daughter's head, and she picked a few lice off the top of her head with her fingers. He said to her 'WTF is this?', and she just shrugged her shoulders and said 'haven't had time'. He pointed out that this amount of lice was from days of non-treatment and that is was disgusting, not good enough and downright cruel, grabbed his daughter's hand and made off. On the bus on the way back to ours the poor kid had lice visibly crawling around on top of her head, so much so that he was sure other people would see them, so he put his jacket on her head to at least stop them being visible to others. Once home, the first thing we did was wash her hair and wetcomb the lice out, and I must have got out over a hundred adult lice. He sent a text there and then to his ex telling her that we had photographed the lice (we did) and would be sending the photo to Social Service, and that if he ever saw their daughter like that again he would remove her from her mother. Nothing back from her, and nothing has changed. Why?

Is it that alcohol consumes a person so much they are simply unable to see how they are treating others. I don't know, but I wish I did.

NikNox

Does anyone have an opinion, or even an answer, to my above post? Sorry to ask again, but we want to include this event (as it's repeated continuously) in our complaint to Social Services, and would like to offer Social Services our perception on why it is, except that we don't know why it is. Just wondered if anyone could say 'yeah, well that's because of ..........'.

Thanks guys.

kiki5711

I'm thinking the only way you'll get her is if she decides to come live with you and says so to the judge or police.

My daughter was living with her dad and wanted to come live with me. On a visiting weekend with me, she just said, "I'm not going back mom" he was emotionally/verbally abusive.

My ex called the police and sent them to my house. She was 16 at the time. I told the police, I'm not holding her hostage here, ask her for yourself. She told them why she didn't want to go back.

This was on a Sunday. The police told me "off the record" go to court first thing tomorrow and get an order of protection for your daughter. I did so. It kept her father away for a year. She was questioned by the judge and the judge saw that it wasn't a game or a lie. In addition to history of same kind of abuse, her allegation was credible.

My stepson also wanted to come live with us and get away from his freaky controlling mother who treated him like he was ********.
And the only and most important reason she really wanted sole custody is cause she got $1,000 per month in child support. I'd say that's like another pay check for some people. Never you mind that maybe less than 1% was spent on the actual child.

He was I think at 15, came over summer holiday and we've talked about his desire to live with us.

Of course, the week he was suppose to return he didn't want to. His mother called the police, they came to our house, asked my stepson what does he want to do. He said "stay with my dad"

His mother was fuming with hate. You could see smoke coming out of her nostrils. We went to court right the next week and went through the same thing as we did with my daughter. Except we didn't get "order of protection" just change of custody.

You need to make a plan that will work.