Those with XAs and kids
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
Those with XAs and kids
What does your visitation/custody situation look like? Is your X in recovery or still actively drinking?
I got kind of a surprise today (I'll explain in a while) and in light of some posts here recently, I felt stupid that I was surprised.
But I'm curious what other people's situations are, and specifically how capable RAs are (especially in the early stages of recovery) of taking on the responsibility of joint custody...
I got kind of a surprise today (I'll explain in a while) and in light of some posts here recently, I felt stupid that I was surprised.
But I'm curious what other people's situations are, and specifically how capable RAs are (especially in the early stages of recovery) of taking on the responsibility of joint custody...
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Hi, Lillamy. XAH is most definitely not a recovering A; the judge in our divorce saw that and it played a really big factor in the custody / visitation arrangements, as did the various types of abuse that XAH perpetuated in our home life. I personally feel that XAH got a sweetheart deal, because he basically still has absolutely no parenting responsibilities and those few that he does have, will most likely rarely be upheld.
I have primary physical and full legal custody. DS's visits with his father are supposed to be supervised by one of 3 people. These 3 are supposed to report to the court if he drinks at all or does any behavior that is abusive. DS visits with his father 2 out of every 3 weekends. On 'my' weekend, DS goes to dinner at his dad's on Sunday. The judge further went to say that if that didn't work, we could revise the arrangements upon mutual agreement without having to come back to court. (Yeah.... like XAH ever agrees with any thing I ask...)
I can't speak to how capable RA's are with joint custody. XAH is definitely not working towards recovery. Since DS called and tried to talk with his dad on Christmas Day, I know XAH was drinking on Christmas. Surprise, it hasn't been reported, my attorney said I can't change anything based on one phone call with 'suspected' drinking...
I have primary physical and full legal custody. DS's visits with his father are supposed to be supervised by one of 3 people. These 3 are supposed to report to the court if he drinks at all or does any behavior that is abusive. DS visits with his father 2 out of every 3 weekends. On 'my' weekend, DS goes to dinner at his dad's on Sunday. The judge further went to say that if that didn't work, we could revise the arrangements upon mutual agreement without having to come back to court. (Yeah.... like XAH ever agrees with any thing I ask...)
I can't speak to how capable RA's are with joint custody. XAH is definitely not working towards recovery. Since DS called and tried to talk with his dad on Christmas Day, I know XAH was drinking on Christmas. Surprise, it hasn't been reported, my attorney said I can't change anything based on one phone call with 'suspected' drinking...
Awakening
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beautiful Texas hillcountry
Posts: 1,272
I have sole custody, axw has "standard" supervised visitation. Axw's visits are supervised by her mom, LMC's gmom, who lives a block or so away. Because of the distance there are no weekends, I let her go down there 1/2 of summer, Christmas for 2 weeks, and Spring break for a week.
This past summer, axw was hammering me to drop the "supervised" part, I told her NO. I allowed the grandmother to decide if the mom was "able" to have overnight visits supervised by the live in boyfriend. I know.
It was a decision I struggled with. I decided they will do what they want anyway, as they are 4 hours away. So I told the xmil that I was putting LMC's safety in her capable hands, and would have to trust her judgment and hold her responsible.
Also, LMC is very smart and older now at 9, so the safety issues are less than when she was 5. Plus, she can stand up for herself and doesn't put up with nonsense. Which just leaves the mental stuff, which I believe I'm dealing with now.
Mom had 6 liters of fluid removed from her abdomen, at 40 years old, back in June, and has maintained that she's been sober for over 2 years, and xmil believes her. Right.
The fact that she may not be around much longer also influenced my decision, right or wrong.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
This past summer, axw was hammering me to drop the "supervised" part, I told her NO. I allowed the grandmother to decide if the mom was "able" to have overnight visits supervised by the live in boyfriend. I know.
It was a decision I struggled with. I decided they will do what they want anyway, as they are 4 hours away. So I told the xmil that I was putting LMC's safety in her capable hands, and would have to trust her judgment and hold her responsible.
Also, LMC is very smart and older now at 9, so the safety issues are less than when she was 5. Plus, she can stand up for herself and doesn't put up with nonsense. Which just leaves the mental stuff, which I believe I'm dealing with now.
Mom had 6 liters of fluid removed from her abdomen, at 40 years old, back in June, and has maintained that she's been sober for over 2 years, and xmil believes her. Right.
The fact that she may not be around much longer also influenced my decision, right or wrong.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: California
Posts: 221
This thread is going to be really useful for me. My lawyer is writing up divorce papers for use the next time my AW binges, and at the moment it asks for sole physical custody and shared legal custody with supervised visitation. Our child is 6 months old.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
My situation is somewhat convoluted. When my ex was still drinking, per our therapists recommendation, he only got the kids for a few hours on Saturday afternoons. They were 13 and 9 at the time, and they had some say in when they wanted to go or not. After he quit drinking, we did the usual every other weekend thing for about a year, with longer visits mutually agreed upon during summer and school vacations, etc. Again, since my children are older, they were allowed input into when and for how long.
Then one day, he announced he had gotten a job 3000 miles away. It's a 4 weeks on and 3 weeks off gig, so he returns every month or so for a few weeks. In order to pull this off, he decided to keep an apartment here in town. But, not wanting to spend any more money than he had to, it is a one-bedroom. So, when he is here, he spends time with them after school, or during the day in summer, and they come home at night.
It seems he's managed the perfect setup for himself where he has no responsibility at all. He gets to play Disneyland Dad and not deal with any of the day to day unpleasant stuff.
My oldest just turned 18, so she is free to pretty much do what she wants. The youngest is now 14 and he is very ambivalent about spending time with his dad, but will do so when he is in town. I try to stay out of it as much as possible since I figure his relationship with his kids is his responsibility and if he doesn't care to put much effort into it, that's his problem. I do have to deal with the anger they have toward him though, which rears it's head now and then.
Sorry so long, I told you it was convoluted.
L
Then one day, he announced he had gotten a job 3000 miles away. It's a 4 weeks on and 3 weeks off gig, so he returns every month or so for a few weeks. In order to pull this off, he decided to keep an apartment here in town. But, not wanting to spend any more money than he had to, it is a one-bedroom. So, when he is here, he spends time with them after school, or during the day in summer, and they come home at night.
It seems he's managed the perfect setup for himself where he has no responsibility at all. He gets to play Disneyland Dad and not deal with any of the day to day unpleasant stuff.
My oldest just turned 18, so she is free to pretty much do what she wants. The youngest is now 14 and he is very ambivalent about spending time with his dad, but will do so when he is in town. I try to stay out of it as much as possible since I figure his relationship with his kids is his responsibility and if he doesn't care to put much effort into it, that's his problem. I do have to deal with the anger they have toward him though, which rears it's head now and then.
Sorry so long, I told you it was convoluted.
L
Awakening
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beautiful Texas hillcountry
Posts: 1,272
Originally Posted by jayscott 
This thread is going to be really useful for me. My lawyer is writing up divorce papers for use the next time my AW binges, and at the moment it asks for sole physical custody and shared legal custody with supervised visitation. Our child is 6 months old.
I was very niave, but the judge wasn't and was apparently looking out for LMC and myself.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
I would agree with Coyote on the legal custody aspect. It's hard enough parenting much less trying to get some A's to assist in important health, etc., decisions. As an example, it took 3 months to get XAH to sign consent forms to allow DS to see a counselor. She was scheduling several months out, so I took almost 1/2 a year to get DS in to see her. (BTW the only reason he finally signed was that the lawyer (who then dropped him for non-payment and not communicating) put it in front of him and ordered him to.)
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
We have joint custody of our kids. (My agreeing to this was partly because RAXH's therapist said that having the responsibility would encourage him in his recovery.) I have been pleasantly surprised at how well he has handled the situation, and the kids have not had anything to say about being "at dad's house" other than that "he spends much more time with us and does much more stuff with us" -- which is good, right?
Except that one of the kids has had terrible behavior issues, actively fought counseling, and was actually "fired" by one counselor (who said it's the first case ever that she's totally given up on). I've bided my time, listened when she wanted to talk, not pushed anything, just loved her and given her emotional space to express herself.
Then today, I got a call from RAXH saying he wanted me to take over full custody of said child.
I admit, she's a handful and a half. She is. I know he loves and adores her -- but he never understood her. I just had a long talk with her, and while she can't explain why, she says she definitely wants to live with me full time, and wants to visit her dad "now and then when I want to."
I have (a surprising amount of) sympathy for RAXH in this situation. Having read and heard what other newly sober As go through with respect to how much time they spend (or need to spend) on their recovery, I'm thinking I probably shouldn't be surprised. And that this might just be too much for him to handle right now, and I should be grateful that he recognizes that.
So I think my approach is going to be to modify the custody agreement, and then tell him that there's always the option of asking for another modification down the line if she wants to and if he feels he can handle it.
Except that one of the kids has had terrible behavior issues, actively fought counseling, and was actually "fired" by one counselor (who said it's the first case ever that she's totally given up on). I've bided my time, listened when she wanted to talk, not pushed anything, just loved her and given her emotional space to express herself.
Then today, I got a call from RAXH saying he wanted me to take over full custody of said child.
I admit, she's a handful and a half. She is. I know he loves and adores her -- but he never understood her. I just had a long talk with her, and while she can't explain why, she says she definitely wants to live with me full time, and wants to visit her dad "now and then when I want to."
I have (a surprising amount of) sympathy for RAXH in this situation. Having read and heard what other newly sober As go through with respect to how much time they spend (or need to spend) on their recovery, I'm thinking I probably shouldn't be surprised. And that this might just be too much for him to handle right now, and I should be grateful that he recognizes that.
So I think my approach is going to be to modify the custody agreement, and then tell him that there's always the option of asking for another modification down the line if she wants to and if he feels he can handle it.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by lillamy
I just had a long talk with her, and while she can't explain why, she says she definitely wants to live with me full time, and wants to visit her dad "now and then when I want to."
I have (a surprising amount of) sympathy for RAXH in this situation. Having read and heard what other newly sober As go through with respect to how much time they spend (or need to spend) on their recovery, I'm thinking I probably shouldn't be surprised. And that this might just be too much for him to handle right now, and I should be grateful that he recognizes that.
So I think my approach is going to be to modify the custody agreement, and then tell him that there's always the option of asking for another modification down the line if she wants to and if he feels he can handle it.
I have (a surprising amount of) sympathy for RAXH in this situation. Having read and heard what other newly sober As go through with respect to how much time they spend (or need to spend) on their recovery, I'm thinking I probably shouldn't be surprised. And that this might just be too much for him to handle right now, and I should be grateful that he recognizes that.
So I think my approach is going to be to modify the custody agreement, and then tell him that there's always the option of asking for another modification down the line if she wants to and if he feels he can handle it.
You have my support and admiration. Parenting is tough under the best of circumstances, but really tough when you throw alcoholism and divorce into it.
L
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: California
Posts: 221
Originally Posted by coyote21
Have your lawyer push for sole legal custody, so you don't have to run every decision past a drunk for 18 years.
I was very niave, but the judge wasn't and was apparently looking out for LMC and myself.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
I was very niave, but the judge wasn't and was apparently looking out for LMC and myself.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
Awakening
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beautiful Texas hillcountry
Posts: 1,272
Originally Posted by jayscott
After tonight's events, we'll be modifying for exactly that. I came home from work and found her passed out in the bed with the baby laying next to her, surrounded by pillows, wide awake. I could barely wake my wife even when shaking her. Lawyer had the paperwork ready today, so looks like tomorrow will be an eventful day.
I didn't realize at first what a gift that judge had given me. Our whole marriage was one power struggle after the next, we couldn't agree on ANYTHING.
Nobody facing being a single parent has time for circular alcoholic nonsense.
Congratulations on doing the right thing for your little boy. You're a good Dad.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
I read your follow up post and I think you are handling it perfectly.
I have physical custudy and we share joint legal custody. Xah has the standard visitation. He never took it most of the time and never had them an entire weekend but once. He moved at Thanksgiving so hasn't seen them since then. He's in rehab right now. I don't know if he'll move back here or somewhere else. I wish he'd stay right where he is at for a year. There are more jobs and he could get all the aftercare they have right there. It would be hard for the kids if he was away for a year but if he stayed sober, it would more then make up for it, and if he doesn't - I'd rather he be far away then too. But, I wasn't asked what I thought and for a change - I didn't start yacking about what I thought was best.
I have physical custudy and we share joint legal custody. Xah has the standard visitation. He never took it most of the time and never had them an entire weekend but once. He moved at Thanksgiving so hasn't seen them since then. He's in rehab right now. I don't know if he'll move back here or somewhere else. I wish he'd stay right where he is at for a year. There are more jobs and he could get all the aftercare they have right there. It would be hard for the kids if he was away for a year but if he stayed sober, it would more then make up for it, and if he doesn't - I'd rather he be far away then too. But, I wasn't asked what I thought and for a change - I didn't start yacking about what I thought was best.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
Good on you for *listening* to your daughter; it's so important she feels she is heard.
As for me, I have sole physical custody of my daughter and shared legal. XAH has visitation once a week, for 3.5 hours. He doesn't see our child however (that's another complicated story). I kind of wish I had sole legal custody because I cannot travel without his consent, I cannot renew DD's passport without his signature, and considering what a dangerous person he is, I am NOT willing to contact him to get those things from him. So for now, we'll stay in Canada and perhaps in a few years, we can file for abandonment and rid ourselves of the constraint.
jyascott...good god I hope you can get custody REAL FAST and get that woman away from your baby.
As for me, I have sole physical custody of my daughter and shared legal. XAH has visitation once a week, for 3.5 hours. He doesn't see our child however (that's another complicated story). I kind of wish I had sole legal custody because I cannot travel without his consent, I cannot renew DD's passport without his signature, and considering what a dangerous person he is, I am NOT willing to contact him to get those things from him. So for now, we'll stay in Canada and perhaps in a few years, we can file for abandonment and rid ourselves of the constraint.
jyascott...good god I hope you can get custody REAL FAST and get that woman away from your baby.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 70
I'm so glad I saw this thread... I've been through a divorce/nasty custody battle before with my first marriage, and I've been terrified of what could happen with my current situation. We have two small children - a toddler and a preschooler (who is autistic) and I am terrified for him to have unsupervised access to the kids. It's 99% of why I am still with my AH. If I KNEW he would be supervised I could handle leaving him...
2nd chance at a 1st cl*** life
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: San Jose, Ca
Posts: 492
As far as my situation goes I am the XAH, I've been clean and sober for a little over a year now. I only get to see my kids for a few hours 2-3 days out of the week. My visitations are supervised at my ex mil house. I know I'm not in any position to be asking for split custody as I'm still trying to get my life back together. I love my kids more than anything in this world, my kids are the reason I got sober in the first place. I neglected them far to much for far to long and my drinking and using was denying them the father they deserve. Being in recovery and only getting to see them for so little is tough, but I know that its for the best. Until I can get back on my feet I can't be much of a caregiver. I'm still struggling to take care of myself let alone 2 little ones.
My situation is very different than that of yours and those who have replied above. Like I said I'm the alcoholic addict, not the one who was on the receiving end of the abuse. From what I've seen in AA it takes most of us alcoholics time to turn our lives around, years. That alone scares the crap out of me cause those are years of my kids lives that I'll never get back. if I look at it from a positive perspective it helps out. If I were still boozing and using I'd miss them anyways, plus a whole lot more.
I really don't know where I'm going with all of this and I'm sure its off topic so I'll stop here.
My situation is very different than that of yours and those who have replied above. Like I said I'm the alcoholic addict, not the one who was on the receiving end of the abuse. From what I've seen in AA it takes most of us alcoholics time to turn our lives around, years. That alone scares the crap out of me cause those are years of my kids lives that I'll never get back. if I look at it from a positive perspective it helps out. If I were still boozing and using I'd miss them anyways, plus a whole lot more.
I really don't know where I'm going with all of this and I'm sure its off topic so I'll stop here.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
I love my kids more than anything in this world, my kids are the reason I got sober in the first place. I neglected them far to much for far to long and my drinking and using was denying them the father they deserve. Being in recovery and only getting to see them for so little is tough, but I know that its for the best. Until I can get back on my feet I can't be much of a caregiver. I'm still struggling to take care of myself let alone 2 little ones.
2nd chance at a 1st cl*** life
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: San Jose, Ca
Posts: 492
Originally Posted by lillamy
I think that's where my RAXH is, as well, but that he is so frightened that if he gives an inch now, he'll have lost the kids for forever. And me, on my side, I'm so used to him trying to take a mile if I give an inch that we're really both making a mess of our communication attempts.
I'm sure you share a lot of the same thoughts that my ex wife has. I know that she feels if she gives me an inch that I'll take a mile. Her and I don't communicate well. And because I still love her I'm often suspicious of what she's doing. Whether she's dating again, if she has my kids around another man. But I have to accept that her life is her life and that I have no control over her decisions. It's a tough pill to swallow when you still have a lot of love for someone to think that are with someone else. Some people like me don't know what they had until they lose it. I'm confident that god has his plans for me. If my not being with her is part of his plan then so be it. I have to just accept his will and live with it. One day I'll find happiness again, I really wish it could be with her, but that is something that I've grown to doubt more and more through the passing days. I don't think she has a place in her heart for me anymore.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
