Payne

Today I got advice that someday I would have to talk to my parents about what what they did. But knowing them, they won't admit to any of it and when I hit that point their denial will only add new logs to the fire. I personally feel that the person who needs to deal is me, I don't need or want their apologies or explanations, it will never be enough.
The person giving the advice has recently been thrown into the world of alcoholism by someone she cares about and is responding accordingly to her knowledge. I'm not as good yet at knowing the "mental process of an alcoholic" but I know what I grew up with. I feel that talking with my parents about my childhood will only reinforce that they will not acknowledge the pain they caused, and that even if they did their answers would never be enough. I need to find the peace within myself.
Guess this is just a moment of frustration and me trying to understand if my belief comes from a root of fear or if it is rational but hard to explain to someone who hasn't grown up in this situation.

Payne

By the way, I recently finally did this. It went as well as could be expected. Many people around me knew about my issues, one of which whats my A's sister who helped to mediate the moment. It was certainly a step in the right direction.

EveningRose

I'm a little lost. Your second post says you finally did this--meaning you spoke to your parents about the things they did to you?

In your first post, I understand you to have said you were told only today that you should and that you don't expect it would help anything.

My experience falls in line with the original post:

Maybe two years ago about New Year's Eve, I spoke to my AF. He asked what's wrong, what am I upset about (after I'd largely withdrawn from the family for the previous two years or so.) I gave him a clear list of specific incidents and verbatim hurtful, ugly words, including throwing me on a bed and trying to choke me. (He also did that to my sister when she was 16.)

His response:

Even over the phone I know him well enough to know he was looking 'sad,' and 'dismayed' at my foolishness and inability to see clearly, and it came out clearly in his voice as he said, "None of that ever happened. You're imagining it all. So what are you upset about?"

.
.
.
.
.
Well, there's really nothing left to say, is there, if he wants to believe I 'imagined' everything I'm upset about. If I see clearly that the behavior will continue and I will literally be told, even as it's happening, that I'm actually imagining it.

I'd struggle to believe this is possible if I hadn't experienced it myself. You can't make this stuff up.

tromboneliness

Yes. That's why it was so valuable, when I was cleaning out my parents' home after they died, to find a journal my Mom had kept for awhile, during some of the worst period of family fighting from my teenage years. She describes, on a daily basis, what went on between my father and sister (and her -- I tended to clam up when fights happened, although I'd occasionally explode).

If I hadn't found that journal, I'd have forgotten how bad it really was, day in and day out. Certainly my Dad would never have acknowledged it -- and to this day, if you were to ask my sister, she'd just say, "Oh, it was really nothing -- parents always fight with their teenagers." That's not how she and I felt at the time!

T

farfaraway

I hardly ever see my family because I live very far away. But I will be there for Thanksgiving because I have some very old relatives who I need to see before it's too late. I'm 31 and like a lot of people in this forum, I thought for years that my upbringing was quite normal. My father is an alcoholic but stopped drinking over 20 years ago. I never saw him drink because he never drank at home. I came to SR initially because of my drug addict sister.

But it is clear to me now that my family is sick. And many things that I thought were just my personality seem to have resulted from growing up in a dysfunctional family. I don't know who I would be without addiction in my life and that really makes me mad when I'm in the wrong kind of mood.

Now that I know it and can't un-know it, I feel their dysfunction from 3000 miles away in every interaction I have with them. It makes me not want to talk to them anymore. I know when I go for a visit this time, I will not be able to play along and there will be confrontation. This is in a way positive: I'm too healthy to take part! But also negative because I'm not good at confrontation.

I would be curious to know some of the specifics of this conversation you had, Payne, if it's not too private... Especially the tone of voice. I don't know yet if I can have this conversation with members of my family without losing my temper. And that we kept our family's problems a secret all these years, I'm going to look like the crazy one to my other relatives. I'm not sure it's worth to even bother going there.

Payne

I created this post nearly two years ago, I should have specified in my rewrite. The second part was an answer two years later. I was rereading my old posts the other night looking at my journey.

Payne

farfaraway - the conversation was kind of thrown together. It was very calm very non accusatory on both sides. It started because my grandmother was treating me the way my mother does. And when my mother became affronted about it I brought to her attention the similarities. My aunt and sister in law who are aware of how I feel were also there to lessen the anger and tension and keep us more constructive.

NWGRITS

I know that approaching my AM would do absolutely no good. She's so far gone from 40+ years of drinking that she doesn't remember any of it. She's held on to some memories from her childhood, or what her brain is telling her are her memories. At a certain point, it's really not worth it, unless you really feel you need to "talk it out" for closure.

Plath

My personal experience with this has generally not gone over well.
And by "not gone over well", I mean it has resulted in insults tossed at me, freak out episodes from my mom (her screaming that she was a bad mother and she's sorry, as if she were about to be burnt at the stake or something--NOT a real apology, I might add, just a freak out drama episode), or "I know a lot of people who would have liked to have had your childhood", etc.

NEVER an actual acknowledgement from any member of my mom's side of the family. So I've generally given up, although sometimes I get frustrated and push the issue...but not nearly as often as I used to. It's ridiculous for me to try to reason with people who are just not capable of seeing what they don't want to see.

My dad's side is different.
I've received a heartfelt apology from my step-mom and my dad for not being there for me throughout my childhood; my step-mom has broke down in tears when she admitted to me that she treated me poorly when I was a little kid, and really kept me out of their lives (I have three brothers on my dad's side, and we're finally getting to know each other again as adults, as our time together was pretty infrequent when we were kids).

So, it really depends on the person. My step-mom went through a lot of therapy during the years that I didn't really talk to them very much, and it really made a difference. My mother also went through years of therapy, and it doesn't seem to have done much good. Maybe it has, but she still holds onto resentments like some sort of sick lifeline, and never sees her poor decisions as being the cause for certain consequences in her life. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault.

I'm glad that your experience went over well, Payne.

Farfaraway, I suppose only you can know if it's worth it to go there and endure a confrontation. I think that if I were in your shoes, I would probably try to just focus on the older relatives that I wanted to see before it's too late, and leave the confrontation for another time, perhaps even a letter or something.
I realize that this is really, really difficult when people's behaviors are "crazy making", and having to witness family members' bland denial of what seems like obvious problems and abusive situations can be infuriating...but I think that your question about whether it's worth it is valid.

Good luck to you, I hope it works out.

Payne

It definitely varies by person. It has been a lot of ups and downs and back and forths with my mother to get to that point and a lot of improvement in her own life to get there. We certainly haven't solved the problems but its nice to get acknowledgement.

Kialua

I'm not sure which of your parents were alcoholics. But it's not very hopeful that you will get any positive results from this type of a talk. I tried for many years. It was impossible with my AF and just as impossible with my non drinking but enabling mother. Please read about my efforts on my blog they give us on this site, here. It might help.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...s-reality.html

farfaraway

Wow Kialua your blog was intense. I have learned so much from it, and now I have a lot to think about. Especially the part about honoring your mother when she passed.

Payne I'm glad that you have made progress with your family. Having a mediator sounds like a good idea, should I ever attempt it.

For now though I don't want a confrontation. I think seeing them only in groups of other people, and not going in my parents' house will help.

fluffyflea

Hi Payne here is my E.S.H with talking to the parent. Unless they are in recovery themselves and have remotely acknowledged therecould possibly have been aproblem on their part DO NOT try and talk to them. I did and was totally shot down and told it was my problem and to get help (I-ve been in recovery 14.5 years). With that response I just figured it was better to keep on working on myself and say nothing.

Earthworm

MsPINKAcres

What I learned in my journey thru recovery - is that I didn't need another person, parent, partner, etc to validate my pain ~

Regardless of how others remembered the situation - the feelings associated with the memory were REAL for me ~ I felt hurt, anguish, pain, distrust, sorrow, disappointment, sadness, regret and many other emotions ~

Whether any one else acknowledged it or not ~

I could write a letter to the child inside me and acknowledge that pain, and ask forgiveness - say I'm sorry we weren't old enough to protect ourselves from that pain and make a promise that we are older, smarter, wise and more prepared ~ should we face that some circumstances again today - we will work together with our program of recovery, our HP and our inner strength to protect ourselves and to not be overshadowed by that pain again.

Just my e, s, & h ~
prayers & good thoughts for healing

PINK HUGS,
Rita

kudzujean

Great blog entry!

EveningRose

My experiences trying to talk to my parents (or siblings for that matter) has been identical to everyone else's. I get more insults. I get the sulking and, "I guess I was a lousy parent." I get told I imagined it all.

Kialua

I have to add that my alcoholic Dad who would beat me mercilessly ALWAYS apologized with great crocodile tears telling me he loved me and would never do it again but he always did. He did recognize it, somewhat. But it meant nothing to me, hearing it from the time I was born till I left at 18. "I'm sorry" meant nothing to me when nothing changed the next day. "I love you" meant nothing to me from an abusive weepy drunk either. Words fall short and pale in comparison to actions when the blood is still on the walls the next day.

I do ASL sign language and the sign for "sorry" is "apology".
But the sign for "repentance" we use "change" and it's a visual turn around sign.
There is no sorry without repentance that changes the behavior in my opinion. I guess it was important for me to see change hoping to stop the beatings but it never happened.

There is a big difference between "sorry" and "change". But as a grown up the change is different. The alcoholic doesn't have physical power anymore, emotional power is their leverage. This can cause much turmoil and angst as they are still our parents. This burden and responsibility is not easily released. I'm not saying to withhold forgiveness, just that this is a separate issue.

So even if you get an apology or recognition it means nothing until things change and stay changed. Don't pin your hopes on words from an alcoholic. Your words to them probably will not enlighten them to the point of taking action. I wish you peace in your journey.

Payne

Recently I said to a friend that my mother was doing great and this week she threw herself a huge party with all of her friends. I couldn't make it. Traditionally that would have ignited a three week guilt session. Instead, she told me to have fun, and in response I went out of my way to ask her out for dinner on her actual birthday. One of my friends laughed and said "oh let's see how long this lasts" while I feel completely inclined to want to agree. I keep thinking of the thirtieth time I let my ACOA tendencies take over and the friend who has really listened to me support instead of judge.

It's hard when our parents create so much anger and pain in us, to "give them another chance" but my mother has done counseling and seriously looked at her self. She still messes up, but I keep telling myself to give credit where credit is due. She tries, she wants to be more supportive, more accepting, less judgemental and reactive, and more healthy. She will mess up just like I do with my friends. But I need to remember to always give credit where it's due, or I will be choosing to ignore the good, for the sake of the bad in my past.