FindingPeace1

So, last summer I worked with this guy (Guy A). He is about my age and a nice guy. When I moved to the new place I live, he had a room open in his house and I considered renting.
I decided against it for many reasons, one of which is I don't need that much intimacy with any guy right now (even just live in friends).
Through the process, we became friends. In part, because he was dealing with an ugly breakup and I...well, I have an AH I am separated from.
I don't have a ton of friends and I value him.

This is where it gets wonky. Today I ran into a mutual friend (of his and mine) (Guy B) and Guy B told me that ANOTHER guy (Guy C) we all worked with last summer can't stand Guy A.
Now, I know Guy C and I like and trust him. And I know Guy C rented out a room in his house to Guy A's ex-girlfriend (and father of Guy A's child). So, of course, Guy C got the other side of the story from the ex of Guy A. (Confused yet?)

I just feel...uncomfortable now.
I want to stay friends with Guy A, but is he full of it? I don't get that from him at all, but at the same time, I like and trust Guy C's opinion, too.
I have red flags around Guy A's terrible break up issues, but then, I have some rough stuff happening in my life and I would still want to be friends with me!
I am tempted to have lunch with Guy C and ask what's up (I haven't heard anything from him about this), but I don't want to have Guy A feel betrayed.

Maybe I am thinking too hard and I should just chill out and see what transpires?

What do you think?

peace

StarCat

I believe you can be friends with two people individually, even if they can't stand each other, because it's not like you want to have a giant group camping trip and invite Guy A and Guy C to become best friends. You meet each on their own terms, and you don't even talk to each guy about the other, so I don't see an issue.

Now, by all means, if you start to get red flags of your own regarding Guy A or Guy C's behaviors towards you, that's a different matter. But at long as neither one is bothering or upsetting you, there's no cause to get wrapped up in a game of He-Says, She-Says, is there?

LexieCat

I've seldom had a group of friends at one time, because I tend to be attracted to individuals who are often very different from each other. I've often been friends with two people who didn't care for each other. I spent time with them separately.

I've gotten over thinking every single person has to like me, and other people have the same right not to like each other. It doesn't mean anything is "wrong" with anyone--sometimes people just plain clash.

lillamy

My two best friends had a gigantic falling out two years ago. I told both of them, "I've heard both sides of this story, and I'm sorry you guys don't see eye to eye, but it's not my problem. I love both of you, and I will not take sides, nor will I listen to one of you badmouth the other."

The only time it's a problem is times like birthdays (mine or the kids') when I'd like to invite both of them, but I've learned to let them know if I invite them both, and let them decide whether they want to come or not.

To me, this is another codie problem. I struggled long and hard with wanting them to be friends and being uncomfortable and afraid of being stuck in the middle. But in the end, I decided that just as they stubbornly stood their ground and hated each other, I have the right to stubbornly stand my ground and love them.

FindingPeace1

You're totally right.
I guess what pushed my buttons is that Guy B says (here we go...he said, she said) that the story from Guy C's perspective is the same as Guy A's, just with everything flip flopped.
I am WEIRD around honesty issues.
It gets me all uncomfortable that maybe this new friend isn't honest with me.

DARN IT ALL if I am triggered around honesty!

Now, to make this whole thing more nuanced...

The shadow work I am reading (the basic idea is we get our buttons pushed when other people exhibit the behaviors/actions/feelings we reject/deny/villify in ourselves) makes me think about this in another way...

I tend to be very honest (used to be a liar. Now I really work on not keeping secrets and being truthful), but the other day at my new job, I forgot to do an important liability form for driving a company rig.
As I was on my way to pick up the company car, my boss asked me, "did you get all the paperwork handled?"
I was so ashamed that I forgot (which I think relates to me knowing how important it was and then subconciously avoiding it becuase it made me nervous, if that makes sense, as dysfunctional as that is), and that there was no time for me to do it, I answered, "Yes, its done."

OH MY GOD!
I don't know the last time that I've lied like that.
I know my boss, who thinks I'm fabulous, also thinks I'm a flake because I have a terrible memory (and how much of that is me blocking things?? I don't know!)
The shame and guilt and self judgement about being a hypocrite (because one of my big issues is my husband lies about alcohol)! I actually thought about calling up my AH and "making nice" because I am no better than him! (one problem does not fix another...I know.)

What was that all about?
And yet, I am uber senstive around other people being honest...
ugh.
peace

lillamy

And I get that, with honesty. I really, truly do. After living with the "alternative reality" of an A, I'm hypersensitive to lies. And not only lies, but also people who don't see that they're futzing reality to fit their needs.

So I would probably stash in the back of my mind that "these guys might not be completely forthcoming about everything." But then again, if you heard my story and my RAXH's story, you'd think the same thing -- that we were both a couple of liars...

Learn2Live

I think my life rules that seem to apply here are: Trust your instincts, honor your values, and avoid toxic people. Question here is, which one is toxic if either? I personally find gossips toxic.

Learn2Live

P.S. Reading through the thread I was thinking, "Wow sounds like a lot of drama to me." I'm too old for drama; I like my peace.

FindingPeace1

That's it. I had an AH HA when reading that.
I couldn't put my finger on what was off with all this.

It is as if things happen and sometimes I hold them. More things happen and I pile them on top and try to carry it all around and over think and process and wonder and doubt and question...

When perhaps the thing to do is just let it pass by and keep moving.
Even my own lie.
Instead of the guilt and shame, just say, "Oh. Look. That's interesting. I lied," and gently explore where that came from, then move on.

I think the drama feeds me in some way.
This friend of mine has had a real rough, roller coaster of a time trying to work out custody with his ex.
There is a...rubbernecky-fascination with the drama.
Its (dysfunctionally) fun to trip on it.
I am perpetuating it with this line of thought (above).

Hmm.

Talking about the drama keeps that feeling going.

I have NO idea where the pleasure in that funkiness came from.

It leaves me with the "ugh" that I ended with above.

Hmm.

I can let the drama go and go back to peace.

I forgot I had a choice!

Thanks, L2L, you are a wise soul.

FindingPeace1

I have this wonderful feeling of peace.
Life is SO SO simple if we let it be.
So simple.
It makes me think of the bumper stickers that say, "Simplify".
That includes your mind.

As if to ask oneself, "is it a clusterf***?'
"Then, simplify it."

I adore SR!

wicked

Oh yes, that describes it exactly. the rubber necky fascination in the drama.
very insightful and honest of you.
and yes, i do it too.
damn.

okay, time to move on.

Beth

LaTeeDa

I was talking about this the other night with my.....erm.....significant other? Boyfriend just seems like a silly term to use at my age, lol.

Anyway, it was a totally different context, but the same topic in a way. We were talking about the anger that seems to be so rampant these days. The Arizona shootings, the political hyperbole, the us vs. them, etc.

And I said to him that I think anger is a way to "feel alive." That much of society has become so complacent, so helpless to change things, that expressing anger at whatever is simply a way to feel something. Add in the fact that something like 40% of adults in America are on some kind of anti-depressant, and you have a recipe for not being able to feel.

So, after reading this thread, I think maybe drama serves the same purpose. I know I have a tendency to get all worked up about things that have absolutely nothing to do with me and I think this may be why. If I am lacking passion and purpose in my life, even temporarily, I gravitate towards something that sparks feeling. I'm learning to recognize this when it happens and channel my need for drama toward more healthy targets, like movies and books.

L

FindingPeace1

And what is occuring to me is that my lying came from a fear that my boss would judge me, which came from my own feeling of inadequacy because I was judging myself.
Hmm.

More space to self needed, please!
More allowance for humanness.
The more allowance for humanness, the more peace (and less drama!).

What's tricky is that whole process (of fear, avoidance, more fear) happens unconsciously.

My SR/personal development voice-in-my-head is responding that that is okay and when I catch it happening, I can make space for that, too.

Hugs.
peace

JenT1968

Just as a thought as well:

There really is very little where an absolute universal truth exists: two people can, and often do, have wildly differing experiences, recall, and interpretation of the same event, even when no emotions are involved. doesn't mean one or both of them are lying, they are simply recount their perceptions of reality, each one will be through a number of filters.

When you have a relationship break-up and emotions, expectations etc run high, people will often have very different perspectives on why and what happened.

I left my husband because he is an alcoholic and I could no longer live with that and his other behaviours. (from my perspective)

He will say that he left and the break-up was due to my depression and unwillingness to work on our marriage.

I'll say he was hell to live with, he'll say I was hell to live with.

Both of these are true: I was depressed (directly in relation to the above and what I viewed as being locked in a crappy relationship), I was unwilling to work on my marriage (until he had stopped drinking), he left the house after I made moves to.

even hugely divergent accounts can both be true from each person's perspective without either trying to paint themselves in the best light, because each only has a knowledge of their own inner lives, expectations, histories and all of that meshes together when we experience, interpret/process and remember events.

JenT1968

I agree that drama and anger can make us feel alive.

I have different views on the rest of your argument but vive la difference!

and my personal experience of being on anti-depressants (and I've been on 5 or 6 different types throughout my life) and my knowledge of prescribing patterns is that the days of prescribing zombie-pills is over (by about 50 years) and those I have taken have never impacted on my ability to feel on any level.

Learn2Live

It is SO easy to get drawn into things that surround us on a daily basis. It took me a long time and a lot of trouble over and over in my life to finally realize that my happiness really DEPENDS on the people I include in my life. Because there is only so much detachment I am capable of before I turn into a cold, uncaring bitch. So, for me, the better choice is to be much more picky about who I allow into my daily life; who I choose to associate with and affect my feelings and my thoughts (thanks Brian Tracy!)

This is good practice for you and a good lesson for any of us to learn.

Learn2Live

Regarding Arizona and that guy who shot the Congresswoman point-blank in the forehead? That was WAY more than a feeling, WAY more than anger IMO.
Something weird was going on in his backyard with the skull and candles and worshiping something sinister. Sorry but I believe in the POWER of the spirit world and IMO even dabbling in that kind of thing is dangerous. Like I said, ya' gotta' be careful who (and WHAT) you allow into your life.

LaTeeDa

For clarification, I wasn't talking about the shooter himself. Obviously, he is a disturbed individual. I was more observing the anger, blame, finger-pointing, and drama from all sides surrounding the event.

L

FindingPeace1

So, my husband is saying he will try phone counseling. I have a therapist who is willing to try skyping him in (anybody tried this?), and I figure it will good divorce mediation, worst case.
This morning, I called him and as soon as I mentioned counseling he became grumpy and short.
I started to feel irritated.
When I hung up, I had a voice in my head say, "Could he, at least have the maturity to deal with counseling in a reasonable way?"
And then the response, "No. No, he can't. So put that one down and keep moving on peacefully."
Ahhh, that's good.

lillamy

I want a t-shirt that says that.