Phoenixthebird

Yakety yak (don't talk back)! Click here to hear the tune and read the words: Lyrics and Music
Artists: The Coasters; words and music by Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller
Wonder, if I'm showing my age here! But I've always have liked that song!

However, after having had enough one-way conversations with my DDH...... him talking and me, learning how to listen with half my hearing...... instinctively knowing when to inject my small acknowledgements that I'm still listening......and after reading enough posts to recognize this exhaustive talking by alcoholics, it is a common problem, to many of us here on SR. I've had an AaawwwHHHAaa! moment! And I was RIGHT!

I believe my DDH has undiagnosed ADHD. A medical study conducted by Monika Johann, medical doctor and research associate at the University of Regensburg and author of the study has stated "Our results indicate that individuals with persisting ADHD symptoms in adulthood seem to be at high risk of developing an alcohol-use disorder. Moreover, there is evidence for a highly increased severity of alcohol dependence in subjects with ADHD. Adult alcoholics with ADHD had a significantly higher daily and record intake of alcohol per month, an earlier age of onset of alcohol dependence, a higher frequency of thoughts about suicide, a greater number of court proceedings, and a greater occurrence of APD (antisocial personality disorder). Alcoholics with ADHD in adulthood are five to 10 times more frequent than in the normal population."

"Compared to alcoholics without ADHD, alcoholics with ADHD in adulthood were at least four years younger at onset of alcoholism, drank about 50 grams pure alcohol more per day during the previous month, had a nearly twofold higher rate of first-degree positive family history of alcoholism, had a nearly three times higher frequency of antisocial personality disorder, had a nearly seven times higher frequency of court proceedings, and had a more than two times higher frequency of suicidal thoughts."[/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR="darkred"][B]"We see on a regular basis that drug addicts with ADHD are difficult to handle. They start to abuse drugs earlier than other people, change earlier to 'hard' drugs, take longer to start treatment, and take longer to successfully finish therapy."

"ADHD seems to be highly underestimated in adulthood yet seems to be an important risk factor for the development of alcohol dependence."

"It is estimated that 3 to 5 percent of children in the U.S. have ADHD, however, it is difficult to predict how many of these children will still have it as adults. Recent studies estimate that between 30 to 70 percent of children with ADHD will still experience symptoms of the disorder as adults."

"The symptoms of adult ADHD are the same as those experienced by children with ADHD, but it is usually more difficult to recognize these symptoms in adults."

The three primary characteristics of ADHD are:
1.Impulsivity
2.Hyperactivity
3.Inattentiveness
In many cases, individuals will have a history of failures in school, and work or will experience bouts of anxiety or depression related to ADHD.

To be diagnosed with adult ADHD, the individual must:
Have symptoms that began in childhood.
Experience persistent symptoms that create problems in one or more life areas.
Exhibit current symptoms of the disorder.

Psychotherapy can help the individual learn more about adult ADHD and discover tips and techniques to manage it. The medications used to treat adult ADHD are usually similar to those used by children with the disorder.

If an adult is concerned they may have ADHD, where do they start?

The following link will take you to a screening test for ADHD, called ASRS or Adult Self Report Scale screener, which was developed with the World Health Organization.
About.com: http://psych.med.nyu.edu/files/psych/attachments/psych_adhd_screener.pdf

References:
Adult ADD - Symptoms of Adult ADD
Adult Alcoholism and ADHD are Connected
ADHD Individuals at High Risk

This information is only for the codependent! No, you're NOT going crazy! Your alcoholic MIGHT actually have ADHD! Remember you can take a horse to water, but you can't make him drink! You didn't CAUSE it! You can't CONTROl it! and you can't CURE it!

Just my personal opinion. Take what you like and leave the rest.

Love and Peace,

Phoenix

bookwyrm

Phoenix, I don't get it. Where does this change the way you live? What does this mean for you? Trying to diagnose my XAH with something other than alcoholism tied me up in knots and just meant I excused his behaviour more. What does this mean for YOU? Keep the focus on you - you know that there is nothing you can do to cure the alcoholic in your life. So what are your plans to help you?

Non stop talking, one sided conversations...is this what you want in your life?

Phoenixthebird

bookwyrm, thank you for your response......but, I believe, it's only human needs to be validated once in awhile.....and know what we might THINK we are only imagining like excessive talking is actually based on scientific facts! At least I know, that I need validation......especially after suffering damage in my brain!

I tried to clarify that it should not effect any codependents' steps to their own road to recovery! "This information is only for the codependent! No, you're NOT going crazy! Your alcoholic MIGHT actually have ADHD! Remember you can take a horse to water, but you can't make him drink! You didn't CAUSE it! You can't CONTROl it! and you can't CURE it!"

bookwyrm, my road to my recovery is more than just conqueroring my codependency..... but, literally, learning how to live my life again! Which I'm slowly learning how to do. Yesterday I got my driving priviledges back! I've started my OT and PT for two hours a day for three days a week. Today's one of those days! I'm determined I will become independent again! And I keep reading and posting here on SR!

Phoenix

sailorjohn

I can understand where bookwyrm is coming from, I spent a long time in the relationship-and during the frequent breaks-trying to figure out her end.

I would figure it all out, then tell her and viola! everything would be fixed.

While it might have been a little validating-for me-in the end it just served as a distraction from what should have been the main focus of attention-my actions, my behavior.

Just stepping away from everything, letting the fog lift, allowed me to see the reality of the relationship, no further research necessary.

LaTeeDa

Exactly. Unacceptable behavior is unacceptable. Doesn't matter if it's caused by drinking, dry drunk, ADHD, narcissism, bipolar, or tight shoes.

My behavior is mine to figure out. Other people can figure out their own (or not).

L

Shellcrusher

At the same time, it's important for some people to fully understand why things are the way they are. This doesn't mean they've stopped looking at themselves.

Not hijacking here but there are 4 different personalities.
Drivers
Expressive
Analytic
Amiable

Maybe Phoenixthebird is analytical.

Thumper

The high high risk of drug and alcohol abuse, anxiety, depression, genetic links, criminal behavior etc. is well documented in the ADHD world. It seems you have found information to retroactively fit that to adult alcoholics. Makes sense to me. I have one son diagnosed with ADHD (and more to come I'm guessing) and I'd bet my last dollar that my xah is undiagnosed ADHD. He was about as open to addressing that as he was to addressing alcohol - which was not at all.

I'll admit it caused me a lot of confusion before I was able to straighten out my thinking to realize that ultimately it doesn't matter why he is the way he is and struggles so much. It was not working for me. At all. It was (and is) very painful for me because I don't want history to repeat itself with my boys. It is such an effort to stay in today. It is also painful for me to fully admit that something that looks like ADHD takes someone off my 'list' (future list - I'll be so old we'll both be in rocking chairs before I ever have a chance to date again ) - because I know that at least one of my kids qualifies and of course I wish for them a loving relationship with a great person. I can't think to much on that because it still makes me so uneasy to think that way. It is hard to line it all up.

wicked

I understand this completely Thumper. I was diagnosed with a major depressive disorder, at first my ex thought it was an excuse to be lazy!
then, he thought if i got the right meds, it would affect me like spanish fly or something.
LOL anyone remember that?
after that, when i expressed that maybe his drinking was masking and numbing his depression and pain from a sad and desperate childhood.
he told me i was the one with the problem.
end of conversation. i wanted wellness, not just for me but for him.
the problem with that is i can only control me.

phoenix, i will validate that your DDH is ill.
it all comes down to and this is just my opinion,
it makes him a dickhe@d wearing an a$$hat.
please take care of yourself.
what he is does not change you.
keep going, drive and sing loudly in the car.
that worked well for me.

Beth

wicked

shellcrusher,
i think she is analytical too.
i wonder, because i think i am all four of those personalities.
maybe at different times.
but parts of it.
i want answers and i want them now.



Beth

Phoenixthebird

At the same time, it's important for some people to fully understand why things are the way they are. This doesn't mean they've stopped looking at themselves.

Not hijacking here but there are 4 different personalities.
Drivers
Expressive
Analytic
Amiable

Maybe Phoenixthebird is analytical.

Thank you, Shellcrusher! I've been in therapy on and off again probably for about the last twenty years. My therapists have all told me that I'm a detailed thinker. I like to understand the reasons why things are the way they are. I look back on my career choices and they all point me in that direction......first I was a classification counselor in a medium security prison......then I was a state licensed therapist......and then I was a contracting officer for the air force. Now I'm thinking about furthering my education into some specialized field......but don't know which one!

Maybe one day I will get it straight! (LOL)

Phoenix

LaTeeDa

There is nothing wrong with being analytical. I, myself, have some extremely analytical traits. We all have our own set of personality traits. They are neither good nor bad, they just are. It's how we use them (behaviors) that determines if they benefit us or undermine us.

When I was using all my analytical energy trying to figure out my A, I was spinning in circles. As soon as I channeled that energy into my own recovery, I started finding answers and peace. Same trait, different behavior.

I also enjoy fixing things. That trait comes in real handy with computers and stuff around the house. Not so much with people.

L

Shellcrusher

Yeah. If only I could defrag my AW...

wicked

yeah, come over here honey, just sit still while i defrag you.
wont hurt a bit.

Shellcrusher

Yeah. While I'm at it, we're all upgrading our memor(ies)

ShiningStars

My AH used ADHD as an excuse to obtain meds to compensate for his mental fuzziness caused by his drinking. After a while he started using the meds to 'wake up' after drinking too much at night. Then I could tell when he got his rx filled by the way he was behaving - I guess he started liking the high he got from taking too much of the meds. He claims to have suffered with ADHD for his entire life, but his mother says he never had it...

bookwyrm

I understand the need for validation (after a marriage to a mind twisting, abusive, alcoholic control freak I REALLY understand) it's just that I don't 'hear' a lot of YOU in your post, just a lot about your A and about 'others' who might benifit.

How are you doing today?

Phoenixthebird

bookwyrm, thank you for asking! I haven't this morning yet set any daily goals for myself; I have OT and PT again today.
However, ........................


Love and Peace,
Phoenix

Phoenixthebird

I even get to drive myself!

brokenheartfool

After years of exhaustive detective and pseudo-psychology work, I can say none of it fixed one darn thing.
I was still left with an uncomfortable sense of reality in a relationship with a person who obviously drank too much.
The only other sure thing was that I had created a whole bunch of neurotic thinking in myself during those years.
How did I get to be so neurotic? By a lot of detective work and playing psychologist.
So I've been down the labeling diagnosing path, and it didn't work for me.
Perhaps others will find more success.