Alcoholic? Habitual drinker? Co dependent? Enabler?
6/20/08
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,467
Alcoholic? Habitual drinker? Co dependent? Enabler?
Hi all....not a newbie to SR, but I am to this forum. I've wanted to comment in many, many threads, but I didn't want to hijack them....so it's probably best to start my own, I guess. 
Need some words of wisdom. I'm 2 1/2 years sober from drinking 30 years. AH quit drinking Monday 'to lose weight'. He said it's a 'hard habit to break'. I about choked on my coffee. Asked him if he thought he is alcoholic. He said, 'No, alcoholics can't control themselves' (as in they get sloppy, slur, lose jobs, make people angry....you know the routine).
When I told him he is alcoholic, boy was he Mad!
Just not sure where I"m going with this. He is alcoholic, as is 9/10's of his family. But he's right, he doesn't make a jerk of himself. He REALLY is a nice guy. Really! I know, nice guys are alcoholic, too...but if they don't call them self alcoholic it's okay....yeah!
I don't consider myself an enabler or co dependent. But I'm reading here I must be. I don't see it....
What the hell is up with us?
Don't even know what to expect from a response. I'm just sitting here wondering what in the hell he thinks someone is if they are a daily 12 pack drinker for 35 years. Habitual? Really?
Need some words of wisdom. I'm 2 1/2 years sober from drinking 30 years. AH quit drinking Monday 'to lose weight'. He said it's a 'hard habit to break'. I about choked on my coffee. Asked him if he thought he is alcoholic. He said, 'No, alcoholics can't control themselves' (as in they get sloppy, slur, lose jobs, make people angry....you know the routine).
When I told him he is alcoholic, boy was he Mad!
Just not sure where I"m going with this. He is alcoholic, as is 9/10's of his family. But he's right, he doesn't make a jerk of himself. He REALLY is a nice guy. Really! I know, nice guys are alcoholic, too...but if they don't call them self alcoholic it's okay....yeah!
I don't consider myself an enabler or co dependent. But I'm reading here I must be. I don't see it....
What the hell is up with us?
Don't even know what to expect from a response. I'm just sitting here wondering what in the hell he thinks someone is if they are a daily 12 pack drinker for 35 years. Habitual? Really?
6/20/08
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,467
Escape...is that sarcasm I'm reading? That's the bad thing about the internet...sometimes you just don't know.
I"m far, far from perfect. Learning and living this one day at a time.
I hope I've done it by being honest with myself.
I"m far, far from perfect. Learning and living this one day at a time.
I hope I've done it by being honest with myself.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
some words of wisdom would be hands off his recovery.
it's a bit of a shame that he doesn't consider himself an alcoholic, because that closes many doors for support during his recovery.
anyway, it's his journey. perhaps he needs to go up and down a bit with it...as in try to stop, be unable to, quit for awhile, then believe he can control his drinking, binge, quit...well, you know the routine.
and also, please feel free to post on the other posts. i, for one, benefit from hearing the perspective from the other side of the fence.
it's a bit of a shame that he doesn't consider himself an alcoholic, because that closes many doors for support during his recovery.
anyway, it's his journey. perhaps he needs to go up and down a bit with it...as in try to stop, be unable to, quit for awhile, then believe he can control his drinking, binge, quit...well, you know the routine.
and also, please feel free to post on the other posts. i, for one, benefit from hearing the perspective from the other side of the fence.
6/20/08
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,467
Thanks, Naive. I agree w/hands off his recovery. In fact, this is one of the few talks we've ever had of alcoholism. Rarely, rarely talk about my sobriety.
Totally agree w/the closing of doors because of recovery.
You helped. I think I just needed to hear it from someone removed from me. I guess SR isn't only my AA, it's now my Al Anon! Thanks!
Totally agree w/the closing of doors because of recovery.
You helped. I think I just needed to hear it from someone removed from me. I guess SR isn't only my AA, it's now my Al Anon! Thanks!
6/20/08
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,467
Thanks escape.
I had wanted to quit drinking for years. Years. Would bawl and plead with myself. One summer day it just clicked. I had a little health blip. More than that, I really had a spiritual moment (although I am not religious). Long story short, I came to SR and I've finally 'gotten' it. So very grateful to this place.
Our marriage has absolutely changed. A lot.
We have a good marriage. Kids are grown. No abuse. Just too damn much alcohol and everything we know that it causes.
Just shocked the crap out of me that he is adamant he isn't an alcoholic just because he functions well. I'd like to introduce him to his liver.
I guess I keep doing what I'm doing. And keep positive thoughts that he can come to terms with himself. And only he can do that one.
Writing this out has helped. Maybe I'm the only one that sees a problem here. Thanks, escape!
I had wanted to quit drinking for years. Years. Would bawl and plead with myself. One summer day it just clicked. I had a little health blip. More than that, I really had a spiritual moment (although I am not religious). Long story short, I came to SR and I've finally 'gotten' it. So very grateful to this place.
Our marriage has absolutely changed. A lot.
We have a good marriage. Kids are grown. No abuse. Just too damn much alcohol and everything we know that it causes.
Just shocked the crap out of me that he is adamant he isn't an alcoholic just because he functions well. I'd like to introduce him to his liver.
I guess I keep doing what I'm doing. And keep positive thoughts that he can come to terms with himself. And only he can do that one.
Writing this out has helped. Maybe I'm the only one that sees a problem here. Thanks, escape!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
Coffee, I don't know you personally in real life, but I read your words here and I'm proud of you!! Proud that you put your health first and did what you needed to do to get well. Above that, you did it while someone so close to you continued down the same path you were on. It is an immeasurable struggle, I realize, for you and I applaud you for your courage to do it.
My EX went in waves with acceptance of his problem. Overall, he danced around the label of alcoholic like a ballet. I think in our 10+ years together he admitted it (mostly under his breath mind you) that he is an alcoholic. Like your husband he would down a 12-pack a night for a week and then (at best) say he was "hitting it a little hard." Uh, ya think?
It helped me immensely when I came to SR to hear that it is just a label. He knows he has a problem whether he expresses it or not. It's not like he doesn't see it. In fact, he probably was as functional an alcoholic as he was because he thought that would keep that title at bay. What really mattered as the significant other of someone with an addiction was what it meant for me. Labeling it helped me understand, but it didn't make my struggle go away. Through this forum, I learned what I could do to cope and improve my life whether he ever "got it." The first step was detachment. Sounds like you know how to start with that by taking your hands off his choices.
Just wanted to share my experience and offer you support! Stay the course friend.
Alice
My EX went in waves with acceptance of his problem. Overall, he danced around the label of alcoholic like a ballet. I think in our 10+ years together he admitted it (mostly under his breath mind you) that he is an alcoholic. Like your husband he would down a 12-pack a night for a week and then (at best) say he was "hitting it a little hard." Uh, ya think?
It helped me immensely when I came to SR to hear that it is just a label. He knows he has a problem whether he expresses it or not. It's not like he doesn't see it. In fact, he probably was as functional an alcoholic as he was because he thought that would keep that title at bay. What really mattered as the significant other of someone with an addiction was what it meant for me. Labeling it helped me understand, but it didn't make my struggle go away. Through this forum, I learned what I could do to cope and improve my life whether he ever "got it." The first step was detachment. Sounds like you know how to start with that by taking your hands off his choices.
Just wanted to share my experience and offer you support! Stay the course friend.
Alice
Groovy Dancer
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The States
Posts: 4,751
Hey coffee. I don't have much experience in this forum either. Not much with al anon at all...so my opinion might differ a bit.
Like you I am on both sides of the fence. Recovering from alcohol myself. I also have a sister that has addiction problems with alcohol now, and crack before (hope before and not now anyway).
I was like you in that I realized I had a problem and knew I needed to quit. Mine wasn't because of a health problem (not yet at that time anyway) but because I realized the amount I was drinking was getting ridiculous. The amount it took me to get drunk was increasing too much to be able to keep it up. I hid it well and no one knew the amount I drank, although my wife had an idea. I didn't get anyone else really concerned for me. Other than my wife no one really thought I had a problem, and even she left me alone for the most part. I could get her to stop and get my favorite bottle too.
So I don't know if there was anything anyone else could have done. I identified the problem myself. There wasn't really much concern from others. Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying anyone should have done anything...just saying I don't know if it would have made a difference.
Now to my sis. Ughhhhh. Fresh off her last trip to the hospital where she took a bunch of pills mixed with alcohol a few days ago. She has had addiction problems for years. Lies, selfishness, lies, selfishness, scares and a few glimpses of hope. She has tons of family support. I have found resources for her. I have called them for her. I have let her know so many times I will do anything to help her. She makes EXCUSE after EXCUSE as to why it didn't work. Supposedly she is getting help now after her latest trip to the hospital.
Not trying to hijack your thread coffee...I don't really write about this much and it feels good. Here is my point - A lot of people say your husband needs to want to get help himself, and you should just worry about yourself and hope he gets there. I kinda see that point. I mean...again, I don't know what anyone could have said to me to get me to act before I did.
Mostly though I don't agree with that. From what you're writing your husband has a problem with alcohol. I don't care if you use the alcoholic term with him or not...you have a right to be concerned and tell him. Maybe it won't work, but maybe it would make a difference.
I'm not gounna keep my mouth shut with my sis. I support her but still let her know what she has done to our family is crap. That I am sick of it. No, it has not worked to make her stop, but I think she needs to hear it.
I certainly know there are cases where family members came to their loved ones with concerns of alcohol / drug problems and that person has gotten help.
I am not saying you should or shouldn't say anything, or keep at your husband with your concerns. I do think you have a right to. I do think it might help for him to know what he is doing, and that he has a problem. At the same time it seems like things have been good between you two, and if you don't wanna push it I don't blame you for that either.
This is all just my humble opinion! Whatever happens you know I wish you the best coffee! You're my favorite work out buddy and a great inspiration.
Like you I am on both sides of the fence. Recovering from alcohol myself. I also have a sister that has addiction problems with alcohol now, and crack before (hope before and not now anyway).
I was like you in that I realized I had a problem and knew I needed to quit. Mine wasn't because of a health problem (not yet at that time anyway) but because I realized the amount I was drinking was getting ridiculous. The amount it took me to get drunk was increasing too much to be able to keep it up. I hid it well and no one knew the amount I drank, although my wife had an idea. I didn't get anyone else really concerned for me. Other than my wife no one really thought I had a problem, and even she left me alone for the most part. I could get her to stop and get my favorite bottle too.
So I don't know if there was anything anyone else could have done. I identified the problem myself. There wasn't really much concern from others. Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying anyone should have done anything...just saying I don't know if it would have made a difference.
Now to my sis. Ughhhhh. Fresh off her last trip to the hospital where she took a bunch of pills mixed with alcohol a few days ago. She has had addiction problems for years. Lies, selfishness, lies, selfishness, scares and a few glimpses of hope. She has tons of family support. I have found resources for her. I have called them for her. I have let her know so many times I will do anything to help her. She makes EXCUSE after EXCUSE as to why it didn't work. Supposedly she is getting help now after her latest trip to the hospital.
Not trying to hijack your thread coffee...I don't really write about this much and it feels good. Here is my point - A lot of people say your husband needs to want to get help himself, and you should just worry about yourself and hope he gets there. I kinda see that point. I mean...again, I don't know what anyone could have said to me to get me to act before I did.
Mostly though I don't agree with that. From what you're writing your husband has a problem with alcohol. I don't care if you use the alcoholic term with him or not...you have a right to be concerned and tell him. Maybe it won't work, but maybe it would make a difference.
I'm not gounna keep my mouth shut with my sis. I support her but still let her know what she has done to our family is crap. That I am sick of it. No, it has not worked to make her stop, but I think she needs to hear it.
I certainly know there are cases where family members came to their loved ones with concerns of alcohol / drug problems and that person has gotten help.
I am not saying you should or shouldn't say anything, or keep at your husband with your concerns. I do think you have a right to. I do think it might help for him to know what he is doing, and that he has a problem. At the same time it seems like things have been good between you two, and if you don't wanna push it I don't blame you for that either.
This is all just my humble opinion!
Whatever happens you know I wish you the best coffee! You're my favorite work out buddy and a great inspiration.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lowcountry
Posts: 2,762
Hi Coffee,
Whatever someone (speaking of myself here ) thinks of the term "alchoholic" ......and all the word implies; ......well, I read long ago about the two seperate (and specific) problems defining "abnormal " drinkers.
In my case, like so many, ....my relationship with booze was full blown in both catagories.
One is Alcohol Dependency; .....the second, Alcohol Abuse.
I guess a person unable to go without alchohol , say daily wine drinkers, (abeit, even smaller quantities by some standards ) would be "dependent"
The binge drinker may not fall in the "dependency" camp; ....but certainly qualifies in the "abuse" camp. I never made much of a distinction, because I gradually became dependent, then began abusing as my resistance increased, .....so , well, it just developed into a daily nightmare; .....(for the second time ) and for several years in the end.
You probably don't know about me getting clean and sober for over 7 years back in 88-95. Was in a bad way (mentally, physically, legally, financially, etc. ) ......so there was no room for ambiguity; and with the support of AA , was one of the lucky ones who never went back out (initially) , from the first day.
Long storry short, I became a different person during those years and honestly came to believe I could give it my best shot to drink "normally" .
With only a few periods of sobriety thrown into the next 14 years, my drinking progressed and lead me to a dark, dark place that (thankfully) lead me to SR.
Coffee, you're part of what makes my recovery "work" here at SR, my friend.
I have little to no useful suggestion about how to handle anything, but you know the bigger, more important story; .......you're def. not in this alone.
You have the strength and patience in your active recovery !!
Prayers to you and your H.
Like Alice said: ^ "Stay the course", my friend.
Whatever someone (speaking of myself here ) thinks of the term "alchoholic" ......and all the word implies; ......well, I read long ago about the two seperate (and specific) problems defining "abnormal " drinkers.
In my case, like so many, ....my relationship with booze was full blown in both catagories.
One is Alcohol Dependency; .....the second, Alcohol Abuse.
I guess a person unable to go without alchohol , say daily wine drinkers, (abeit, even smaller quantities by some standards ) would be "dependent"
The binge drinker may not fall in the "dependency" camp; ....but certainly qualifies in the "abuse" camp. I never made much of a distinction, because I gradually became dependent, then began abusing as my resistance increased, .....so , well, it just developed into a daily nightmare; .....(for the second time ) and for several years in the end.
You probably don't know about me getting clean and sober for over 7 years back in 88-95. Was in a bad way (mentally, physically, legally, financially, etc. ) ......so there was no room for ambiguity; and with the support of AA , was one of the lucky ones who never went back out (initially) , from the first day.
Long storry short, I became a different person during those years and honestly came to believe I could give it my best shot to drink "normally" .
With only a few periods of sobriety thrown into the next 14 years, my drinking progressed and lead me to a dark, dark place that (thankfully) lead me to SR.
Coffee, you're part of what makes my recovery "work" here at SR, my friend.
I have little to no useful suggestion about how to handle anything, but you know the bigger, more important story; .......you're def. not in this alone.
You have the strength and patience in your active recovery !!
Prayers to you and your H.
Like Alice said: ^ "Stay the course", my friend.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: The "beltway"
Posts: 785
Originally Posted by coffeenut 
He said it's a 'hard habit to break'. I about choked on my coffee. Asked him if he thought he is alcoholic. He said, 'No, alcoholics can't control themselves' (as in they get sloppy, slur, lose jobs, make people angry....you know the routine).
When I told him he is alcoholic, boy was he Mad!
When I told him he is alcoholic, boy was he Mad!
ItsmeAlice, your comments remind me of when my bro says "I was drunk last night"...wow, since I consider the man drunk everynight, just what exactly constitues "drunk" in his mind! We've never discussed it in any way shape or form. We just don't. I hope I can have some sort of conversation with him some day, even if he gets mad it will be a start.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
I think it is human nature to dislike any kind of label anyone else puts on us unless it is of the "rock star" variety! LOL We react self-defensively.
He heard you, it didn't set well.
Stay with your own truths. You don't have a need to convince him, it doesn't do anything anyway to try.
He heard you, it didn't set well.
Stay with your own truths. You don't have a need to convince him, it doesn't do anything anyway to try.
6/20/08
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,467
I really appreciate the comments in this thread. I really didn't know why I was posting. It was just driving me nuts.
As I read the comments here....I broke down a bit. I am so grateful to all of you. To have a place to come to and say what I'm thinking....even if it really isn't relevant to anyone else...keeps me sober. Lets me know I'm not in this alone. Thank you.
Alice: Thank you for sharing. Reading what you wrote about label..I 'knew' that...but I didn't 'know' that. I appreciate your post.
Ghostly: I think the way you are handling your sis is healthy. You know what addicts do...so you have insight into her world. Oh, and better not tell Top I'm your fav....you never know where that guy is.
Top: I didn't know about your 7 years. Now, you're gonna get a whole lot more questions....see how that works?! Your suggestions were perfect, btw.
Grandfather: Sounds like you can benefit from this forum as well. My best to your bro....and to you.
Live: You're right. He heard me the first time...saying it anymore is really just for me, isn't it? Also, I remember you from when Fub was doing the fitness thread. It's good to 'see' you again. Thank you.
As I read the comments here....I broke down a bit. I am so grateful to all of you. To have a place to come to and say what I'm thinking....even if it really isn't relevant to anyone else...keeps me sober. Lets me know I'm not in this alone. Thank you.
Alice: Thank you for sharing. Reading what you wrote about label..I 'knew' that...but I didn't 'know' that. I appreciate your post.
Ghostly: I think the way you are handling your sis is healthy. You know what addicts do...so you have insight into her world. Oh, and better not tell Top I'm your fav....you never know where that guy is.
Top: I didn't know about your 7 years. Now, you're gonna get a whole lot more questions....see how that works?! Your suggestions were perfect, btw.
Grandfather: Sounds like you can benefit from this forum as well. My best to your bro....and to you.
Live: You're right. He heard me the first time...saying it anymore is really just for me, isn't it? Also, I remember you from when Fub was doing the fitness thread. It's good to 'see' you again. Thank you.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Great Outdoors
Posts: 1,992
Well now I want to add my .02. My FORMER husband can't live without beer. Even on road trips he picked up a 12 pack. He has been doing this for YEARS. Flash forward to retirement..he is now 59 (will be on 2/12) and he retired last March. I have not had him in my life for the last 1.5 yrs..finally after 25 yrs we quit torturing each other..but..we live in a very small town. All bars and churches. Everyone gets drunk on Saturday night then attends church on Sunday. Well not me..I never did -I just got drunk and didn't pray. So now I see his vehicle parked at the bar daily..he usually hits it right after his morning coffee. I am sure after the bar he goes home to finish his imaginary "party"..Even without the bar..I will venture a guess that he pounds 18 beers daily. I have wanted sobriety dearly for the last 5 yrs. Anyway..that was the demise of us (lots of other sh!t played into it too that goes hand in hand with drinking)..point being it just infuriated him when I wouldn't drink. He will NEVER admit to being alcholic but yet EVERY New Years since I have known him he "quits" drinking only to be back at it within 4 days. You see..he thinks of it as a habit as well.
I am finally happy..at peace. I do use SR as my AA as well. It has been a lifesaver for me. I am no longer at any type of struggle..sobriety comes easy for me but I think it is because I have gone thru pure hell and was VERY ready to disassociate with any alcohol and that includes people that are drinking. I do want to add that I have this love/hate relationship with my former husband..We have been acting out the part of Push Me Pull You for years. I should have auditioned for Dr. Dolitte..I am sure I would have gotten the part. I think I want to say that I have no problem calling myself alcoholic (a sober as a church mouse alcoholic) but for the life of me I cannot own up to being a codependent. I know I have to be because every time I see his vehicle parked at the bar I know he is perched on his stool and I still worry about his health. WE ARE NO LONGER MARRIED! I honestly do not and will not ever look back..but I keep waiting for his liver to blow out. I already took him in for a biopsy 2 yrs ago. *sigh*
I am done spewing now. I just wanted to say good for you coffee..you must have for sure disassociated in your brain from alcohol to be able to be around it all the time. When I look back..it was NOT me in my body while drinking..it was a whole other personality. I killed it off. BIGTIME. Thanks for listening..Don't know what you can do for me but you are the first to see my announcement on my admission to being codependent.
I am finally happy..at peace. I do use SR as my AA as well. It has been a lifesaver for me. I am no longer at any type of struggle..sobriety comes easy for me but I think it is because I have gone thru pure hell and was VERY ready to disassociate with any alcohol and that includes people that are drinking. I do want to add that I have this love/hate relationship with my former husband..We have been acting out the part of Push Me Pull You for years. I should have auditioned for Dr. Dolitte..I am sure I would have gotten the part. I think I want to say that I have no problem calling myself alcoholic (a sober as a church mouse alcoholic) but for the life of me I cannot own up to being a codependent. I know I have to be because every time I see his vehicle parked at the bar I know he is perched on his stool and I still worry about his health. WE ARE NO LONGER MARRIED! I honestly do not and will not ever look back..but I keep waiting for his liver to blow out. I already took him in for a biopsy 2 yrs ago. *sigh*
I am done spewing now. I just wanted to say good for you coffee..you must have for sure disassociated in your brain from alcohol to be able to be around it all the time. When I look back..it was NOT me in my body while drinking..it was a whole other personality. I killed it off. BIGTIME. Thanks for listening..Don't know what you can do for me but you are the first to see my announcement on my admission to being codependent.
ANewBeginning
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,822
Hey Coffee -- it was hard to find you here, but I did find you... just curious about what your comments in the other place about stuff going on.
My husband doesn't drink (well, occasionally - but he can do that) or smoke. So, I guess I see this from a different angle. He let me know what he thought of my drinking more that a few times and yes, each time I got really, really angry and told him in no way was I an alcoholic or even had a problem. But the reason I got angry was because he was right and the other reason was because I totally hated the 'alcoholic' label. I finally got to the point of admitting that I had a problem due to the amount I was consuming and the fact that I almost killed myself in bad a vehicle accident.... but walked away with only a few bruises of which I remember very, very little about...
I quit for a while. Then thought that I was over my 'addiction' and could 'safely' drink a few beers which led me straight back into the hell of alcohol. I'm now very grateful to my husband and the couple other people in my life who let me know what they thought... because deep down inside, it got me thinking...
I also have some siblings (half) who are alcoholic/crack addicted (off and on with the crack) and they all know how I feel about it - but they also know that I love them and am talking from a place that knows what addiction is... I don't talk it about much with them anymore, but occasionally I'll mention something on the side just to bring it back into the forefront... and get them thinking...
Don't know if any of that helps or if I was just rambling... sorry if it was just rambling.
My husband doesn't drink (well, occasionally - but he can do that) or smoke. So, I guess I see this from a different angle. He let me know what he thought of my drinking more that a few times and yes, each time I got really, really angry and told him in no way was I an alcoholic or even had a problem. But the reason I got angry was because he was right and the other reason was because I totally hated the 'alcoholic' label. I finally got to the point of admitting that I had a problem due to the amount I was consuming and the fact that I almost killed myself in bad a vehicle accident.... but walked away with only a few bruises of which I remember very, very little about...
I quit for a while. Then thought that I was over my 'addiction' and could 'safely' drink a few beers which led me straight back into the hell of alcohol. I'm now very grateful to my husband and the couple other people in my life who let me know what they thought... because deep down inside, it got me thinking...
I also have some siblings (half) who are alcoholic/crack addicted (off and on with the crack) and they all know how I feel about it - but they also know that I love them and am talking from a place that knows what addiction is... I don't talk it about much with them anymore, but occasionally I'll mention something on the side just to bring it back into the forefront... and get them thinking...
Don't know if any of that helps or if I was just rambling... sorry if it was just rambling.
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