Need Advice
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 114
Need Advice
On this past Dec. 30, I ended up in the hospital because I got so blitz ass drunk. I scared my oldest son so bad he called 911. I am so horribly ashamed of myself for that, but in a bizarre way, it allowed me to finally admit and own I needed help.
Not surprisingly, my ex told me he was going to go for sole custody of our sons (17 and 15). I told him I was going to AA, had been and intend to go every day, and while I did agree with him that the boys should stay with him (I'd demand the same thing if the situation were reversed), I did not believe involving the court was necessary. But if that was the only option he was giving me, I'd fight him. So I proposed a one month minimum, see where we are, and if more time were needed, we'd go from there. This morning I got this email from him:
I can generally agree with this with the following exceptions.
1. I would prefer the initial period to be longer. I could see it beneficial for you for us to go as long as six months, but I would agree to three at a minimum. I think going longer will provide stability for the boys and give them confidence that you are working on the issues. And again, I will not attempt to keep you from visiting and interacting with them, just not overnight.
2. After the 6 or 3 months I would want some sort of outside independent observer to confirm that you have shown progress in your recovery. You will have to help me with saying who that might be, but we can work that out over the time period.
Let me know if you agree. These emails will serve as documentation of our agreement, and no court action will be taken.
I only have the strength to agree to three months, and even that is killing me, but again, I know I'd demand probably the same.
I don't know HOW to provide the documentation he is requesting, since I have entered the program voluntarily, and by nature, the AA group is anonymous. Honestly, I don't even know this is actually necessary. My sponsor warned me about making any kind of promise at all, as I am not really in an appropriate frame of mind to make any major decisions yet.
Has anyone been in a similar situation? Does anyone have any thoughts for me to consider? I'd appreciate it.
Not surprisingly, my ex told me he was going to go for sole custody of our sons (17 and 15). I told him I was going to AA, had been and intend to go every day, and while I did agree with him that the boys should stay with him (I'd demand the same thing if the situation were reversed), I did not believe involving the court was necessary. But if that was the only option he was giving me, I'd fight him. So I proposed a one month minimum, see where we are, and if more time were needed, we'd go from there. This morning I got this email from him:
I can generally agree with this with the following exceptions.
1. I would prefer the initial period to be longer. I could see it beneficial for you for us to go as long as six months, but I would agree to three at a minimum. I think going longer will provide stability for the boys and give them confidence that you are working on the issues. And again, I will not attempt to keep you from visiting and interacting with them, just not overnight.
2. After the 6 or 3 months I would want some sort of outside independent observer to confirm that you have shown progress in your recovery. You will have to help me with saying who that might be, but we can work that out over the time period.
Let me know if you agree. These emails will serve as documentation of our agreement, and no court action will be taken.
I only have the strength to agree to three months, and even that is killing me, but again, I know I'd demand probably the same.
I don't know HOW to provide the documentation he is requesting, since I have entered the program voluntarily, and by nature, the AA group is anonymous. Honestly, I don't even know this is actually necessary. My sponsor warned me about making any kind of promise at all, as I am not really in an appropriate frame of mind to make any major decisions yet.
Has anyone been in a similar situation? Does anyone have any thoughts for me to consider? I'd appreciate it.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Baghdad
Posts: 2,822
Originally Posted by Corri 
Does anyone have any thoughts for me to consider? I'd appreciate it.
Welcome!!!
Your boys are 15-17, don't think they're going to miss their momma that much-at least they shouldn't, imo-and they will be very happy to have a sober Mom 3 months down the road.
And it will give you extra time to concentrate on what should be your #1 priority right now.
Your sobriety.
Resident
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 4,150
This may be the wakeup call that you need to get better.
I have to side with your ex here. One month of sobriety is not enough time to ensure you are on the road to recovery and I would say that three is a more than fair compromise on what should probably be a longer period.
I don't think you should put your children in the position of having to go through a custody battle because they will be asked their position and that will be a factor in any decision.
Good luck.
If you truly want to get sober you can do it.
I have to side with your ex here. One month of sobriety is not enough time to ensure you are on the road to recovery and I would say that three is a more than fair compromise on what should probably be a longer period.
I don't think you should put your children in the position of having to go through a custody battle because they will be asked their position and that will be a factor in any decision.
Good luck.
If you truly want to get sober you can do it.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 265
I am sorry you have found yourself in this situation, it has to be heartbreaking, but also a blessing in disguise. It is great you can see it from the reverse point of view and by his e-mail, it sounds like your ex is willing to work with you. I have to agree that 3 months will give you more solid footing and instill more confidence in everyone that your recovery is for real. Take this time to really dig in and build up your support team. AA may be anonymous, but I know there are people willing to sign their name and confirm your attendance and hopefully you have a sponsor who would be willing to speak to your ex about your progress. If not, consider getting a counselor with whom you could discuss your sobriety plans and efforts and have him/her give your ex updates on your progress. I will be praying for your situation. Let us know how things are going okay?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal CA
Posts: 1,319
I think your ex and you have a firm grasp of the problem, and I think in your best interest and the best interest of your children you should move forward without involving the courts. Please be careful though, and make sure you get alot of outside support if you can, being alone during the early time in recovery is hard, because that is when your brain starts talking to you. I would make several stops to this site nightly when your alone to keep you going in the right direction. As far as the AA accountability someone at your group will sign a document with date and time of when you were there. They require it for DUI offenders when the go to court. Create a sheet on your computer make it look professional and set the sheet up at table when you enter your meeting and they will hand it back signed when you leave.
Grateful
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Providence
Posts: 18
I totally and respectfully disagree with first response..15 and 17 year olds still absolutely do need their mama. Their HEALTHY mama. Is there a mutual friend/relative that your husband would trust to tell him the truth and that would also hold you accountable for this agreement who can be a sort of mediator?
Canine Welfare Advocate
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 10,962
I don't see in your post where he is asking for any documentation except an email from you agreeing the the parameters he is proposing. Nothing says the confirmation by an independent observer has to be in the form of documentation. Maybe your sponsor would be willing to speak on your behalf.
...on a side note, he's going to learn soon enough that he has NO control over your recovery, so he might as well get himself into Al-Anon and learn what he can control--himself.
...on a side note, he's going to learn soon enough that he has NO control over your recovery, so he might as well get himself into Al-Anon and learn what he can control--himself.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: des moines ia
Posts: 362
Corri, I was the drunk dad. From that stand point I would say this sounds like a good arrangement. Be honest with your boys about what your doing, but don't beat them over the head with it. They just want to see Mom happy and having fun again. As far as the third party verifying things for you; I used professional counseling (Shrink) to a great extent and it helped immensely. Would your ex agree to a licensed professionals opinion ? Please consider yourself very fortunate to have an ex willing to do what he is. My ex just wanted me to go away, and rightly so.
All the best,
Ron
All the best,
Ron
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 114
I don't believe he is being unreasonable either. I just need to hear what other people think, who have been in similar situations, because I don't really trust my own judgment right now.
Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts and support.
Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts and support.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,451
Don't people sometimes get ordered by courts into recovery programs like AA? If so, the judges and probation officers probably get some kind of documentation of attendance, maybe even progress, right? If so, seems like AA must have a way of tracking things. Anyone know for sure? I'm just speculating, since I don't do AA and somehow managed to stay out of court...
Overall, it seems quite reasonable to me. In fact, pretty cool under the circumstances. You may not spend as much time with them for a while, but the time you do have with them will get better and better as you continue your recovery. Quality over quantity—I bet your boys will be pretty happy with that in the months ahead, and so will you. Good luck!
Overall, it seems quite reasonable to me. In fact, pretty cool under the circumstances. You may not spend as much time with them for a while, but the time you do have with them will get better and better as you continue your recovery. Quality over quantity—I bet your boys will be pretty happy with that in the months ahead, and so will you. Good luck!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Sunny South
Posts: 1,666
I think that is all totally reasonable, and will allow you to completely focus on your recovery during that time. I hope that you are able to work out the three month time frame.
I do not have personal experience with this particular situation, but, I do have close friends that have.
You could find a family counselor/therapist that specializes in alcohol/addiction. I don't know that you can evaluate someones recovery progress, the only thing that could be validated is that you are alcohol free.
However, a counselor could work with your entire family, including your ex. This might give him an idea of how you are progressing. A counselor might be able to explain to your ex how recovery works, and that there really isn't a progress report to reassure him.
As we all know, progress is no guarantee that one won't relapse. It may help him to learn of your committment to sobriety, and that this truly is a one day at a time disease.
I do not have personal experience with this particular situation, but, I do have close friends that have.
You could find a family counselor/therapist that specializes in alcohol/addiction. I don't know that you can evaluate someones recovery progress, the only thing that could be validated is that you are alcohol free.
However, a counselor could work with your entire family, including your ex. This might give him an idea of how you are progressing. A counselor might be able to explain to your ex how recovery works, and that there really isn't a progress report to reassure him.
As we all know, progress is no guarantee that one won't relapse. It may help him to learn of your committment to sobriety, and that this truly is a one day at a time disease.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,737
Originally Posted by Corri
[I]
2. After the 6 or 3 months I would want some sort of outside independent observer to confirm that you have shown progress in your recovery. You will have to help me with saying who that might be, but we can work that out over the time period.
2. After the 6 or 3 months I would want some sort of outside independent observer to confirm that you have shown progress in your recovery. You will have to help me with saying who that might be, but we can work that out over the time period.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 114
Originally Posted by Eddiebuckle
I agree with the above post that it doesn't sound like he's asking for documentation. Would you consider going to a therapist who specializes in addiction? You would need to let that person know from the outset that he/she would be serving that role.
Here's a thought. I'll just ask him what would make him, as a parent, feel best in defining 'independent observer.' He knows my entire family, and my fiancee... no one is willing to lie for me, that's for sure.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 114
Oh boy.
I took my kids to dinner tonight and while we were eating I asked them if they were aware of the conversation occurring between their dad and me. They said yes. I asked if they were okay with it, they said yes, but I happened to catch my oldest son's face. You know your kids, right? I asked my oldest, "what? Tell me what's on your mind."
Wow, he is ever P-I-S-S-E-D at his... father. I said, "whoa, hold on, why are you pissed at your dad?"
The gist of it is... when the whole conversation started a few days ago about the kids not staying with me for a time, as far as my oldest knew, it was going to be just one month they wouldn't come home. And he even balked at that. Then their dad informed them that he was going to sue for custody. Then their dad told them it would be six months, and then today, he said he'd do three months. "And no one, not you, not dad, has asked me once how I feel about all of this." So I said, "Okay, tell me what you think."
He said, "I want to go one month (which would actually be six weeks, to stay on our joint schedule), and see where things are. If you are okay then and you keep going to your meetings, I want to come home. I'm going to be 18 in March and I don't care what dad says, I'm coming home."
Oh boy. I asked my younger son what he thought. He said, "I just want you to be better and I want to know you are better, however long that takes. It scares me when you get like that and I don't want to be scared."
I didn't know what to say. I've never seen my oldest son that mad, not even at me. I suspect I'm probably getting ground to a pulp in conversation by my ex's side of the family, and I'm sure my oldest is feeling very protective toward me (Something similar happened during our divorce and I actually had to have the court intervene. I wasn't a drunk then and since we were in the middle of the process, my ex's attorney actually had to put the kabbosh on my ex and his family or he ran the risk of losing joint custody).
I had no idea where to begin, so I finally said, "do you realize my actions are what caused this situation?" He said yes. "Do you understand that if the situation were reversed, I'd probably do the same thing?" He said yes. "Do you realize that whatever your dad is saying and feeling and doing is because he loves you and wants you to be safe?" He said, "yes, but." I stopped him with a "Hang on. I have an idea of what might be happening. But my actions started it. If I hadn't done what I did, this wouldn't be happening, right?" He said, "yes." So I said, "rather than get caught up in a time frame, why don't we just take this day by day and see what we see. Lots of things can change in a month so let's not go and borrow any more trouble than we already have. I'm only a half mile away from you. You can call, come over, whenever you want, right?"
"Yes." He seemed calmer, but I can tell he's still really mad. I suppose I expected a lot of things, but this certainly wasn't one of them. My normal M.O. would be to try and talk to their dad about it all... see if I could help 'fix it.' But my gut is telling me to just sit back for a time and let everything calm down. I don't know that anything can be done rationally when everyone's emotions are running so high.
I don't think my kids truly understand what a dangerous thing alcoholism is. I don't know why they would, they've never experienced it before. It must be addressed. But I'm still a parent, too. Maybe not fully functioning, but I'm not so far gone that my mamma instincts aren't kicking in.
I realize everyone 'parent's' differently. Can anyone share some thoughts I might consider?
I took my kids to dinner tonight and while we were eating I asked them if they were aware of the conversation occurring between their dad and me. They said yes. I asked if they were okay with it, they said yes, but I happened to catch my oldest son's face. You know your kids, right? I asked my oldest, "what? Tell me what's on your mind."
Wow, he is ever P-I-S-S-E-D at his... father. I said, "whoa, hold on, why are you pissed at your dad?"
The gist of it is... when the whole conversation started a few days ago about the kids not staying with me for a time, as far as my oldest knew, it was going to be just one month they wouldn't come home. And he even balked at that. Then their dad informed them that he was going to sue for custody. Then their dad told them it would be six months, and then today, he said he'd do three months. "And no one, not you, not dad, has asked me once how I feel about all of this." So I said, "Okay, tell me what you think."
He said, "I want to go one month (which would actually be six weeks, to stay on our joint schedule), and see where things are. If you are okay then and you keep going to your meetings, I want to come home. I'm going to be 18 in March and I don't care what dad says, I'm coming home."
Oh boy. I asked my younger son what he thought. He said, "I just want you to be better and I want to know you are better, however long that takes. It scares me when you get like that and I don't want to be scared."
I didn't know what to say. I've never seen my oldest son that mad, not even at me. I suspect I'm probably getting ground to a pulp in conversation by my ex's side of the family, and I'm sure my oldest is feeling very protective toward me (Something similar happened during our divorce and I actually had to have the court intervene. I wasn't a drunk then and since we were in the middle of the process, my ex's attorney actually had to put the kabbosh on my ex and his family or he ran the risk of losing joint custody).
I had no idea where to begin, so I finally said, "do you realize my actions are what caused this situation?" He said yes. "Do you understand that if the situation were reversed, I'd probably do the same thing?" He said yes. "Do you realize that whatever your dad is saying and feeling and doing is because he loves you and wants you to be safe?" He said, "yes, but." I stopped him with a "Hang on. I have an idea of what might be happening. But my actions started it. If I hadn't done what I did, this wouldn't be happening, right?" He said, "yes." So I said, "rather than get caught up in a time frame, why don't we just take this day by day and see what we see. Lots of things can change in a month so let's not go and borrow any more trouble than we already have. I'm only a half mile away from you. You can call, come over, whenever you want, right?"
"Yes." He seemed calmer, but I can tell he's still really mad. I suppose I expected a lot of things, but this certainly wasn't one of them. My normal M.O. would be to try and talk to their dad about it all... see if I could help 'fix it.' But my gut is telling me to just sit back for a time and let everything calm down. I don't know that anything can be done rationally when everyone's emotions are running so high.
I don't think my kids truly understand what a dangerous thing alcoholism is. I don't know why they would, they've never experienced it before. It must be addressed. But I'm still a parent, too. Maybe not fully functioning, but I'm not so far gone that my mamma instincts aren't kicking in.
I realize everyone 'parent's' differently. Can anyone share some thoughts I might consider?
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Hmm...
My sense of this is that you are getting entangled and enmeshed in lots of power plays, details, he said, she said.... all that stuff...
Get recovered. Focus 100% on that. Step back from your kids.... and thank God your ex will allow you that opportunity (be grateful for that).... step back from all the sh1t... and start getting recovered... Open the Big Book with your sponsor, start prayin' and writin'.... 1 month, 3 months, 6 months.... it will the take the time it takes...
Mark
Oh, BTW...I have an 18 year old... he does what I ask of him... he knows as well as I do that he's not really not ready to go out on his own... I am not dictatorial even a little bit, we have a great relationship... but with the big stuff, well....
My sense of this is that you are getting entangled and enmeshed in lots of power plays, details, he said, she said.... all that stuff...
Get recovered. Focus 100% on that. Step back from your kids.... and thank God your ex will allow you that opportunity (be grateful for that).... step back from all the sh1t... and start getting recovered... Open the Big Book with your sponsor, start prayin' and writin'.... 1 month, 3 months, 6 months.... it will the take the time it takes...
Mark
Oh, BTW...I have an 18 year old... he does what I ask of him... he knows as well as I do that he's not really not ready to go out on his own... I am not dictatorial even a little bit, we have a great relationship... but with the big stuff, well....
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: des moines ia
Posts: 362
Sounds to me like you handled it very well. As a former teenage boy I can tell you they feel angry about almost anything. Things like sadness or frustration will come out as anger. He will be just fine as long as you keep your head. Don't give him things to feed into. Keep handling things as you are and it should work out fine.
Ron
Ron
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 114
Originally Posted by Mark75
Hmm...
My sense of this is that you are getting entangled and enmeshed in lots of power plays, details, he said, she said.... all that stuff...
Get recovered. Focus 100% on that. Step back from your kids.... and thank God your ex will allow you that opportunity (be grateful for that).... step back from all the sh1t... and start getting recovered... Open the Big Book with your sponsor, start prayin' and writin'.... 1 month, 3 months, 6 months.... it will the take the time it takes...
Mark
Oh, BTW...I have an 18 year old... he does what I ask of him... he knows as well as I do that he's not really not ready to go out on his own... I am not dictatorial even a little bit, we have a great relationship... but with the big stuff, well....
My sense of this is that you are getting entangled and enmeshed in lots of power plays, details, he said, she said.... all that stuff...
Get recovered. Focus 100% on that. Step back from your kids.... and thank God your ex will allow you that opportunity (be grateful for that).... step back from all the sh1t... and start getting recovered... Open the Big Book with your sponsor, start prayin' and writin'.... 1 month, 3 months, 6 months.... it will the take the time it takes...
Mark
Oh, BTW...I have an 18 year old... he does what I ask of him... he knows as well as I do that he's not really not ready to go out on his own... I am not dictatorial even a little bit, we have a great relationship... but with the big stuff, well....
You are completely right, Mark, thank you. I cannot 'fix' anything. There is no need to be a martyr. I need to stay focused on recovery. My kids are loved and safe. I haven't been shipped off to Siberia, never to see them again. I don't need to send groveling emails or attempt to smooth ruffled feathers. The situation (whatever that is) between my son and his dad are for them to work out.
Holy sheet. Look at what I just said and the world is still spinning on its own, without my 'help.'
Ron et al:
Thanks for the insights on young men. I'm proud of the man my son is becoming. He's the one who called 911 last week. I don't know if he truly realizes it, but his actions saved my life, in more ways than one, as long as I keep moving forward with the gift he gave me.
Thanks all. I needed that.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,737
Originally Posted by Corri
My normal M.O. would be to try and talk to their dad about it all... see if I could help 'fix it.' But my gut is telling me to just sit back for a time and let everything calm down. I don't know that anything can be done rationally when everyone's emotions are running so high.
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