Trying not to be too p*ssed of at my friend

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Old 01-01-2011, 10:24 AM
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Trying not to be too p*ssed of at my friend

Hello SR...

And happy New Year!!!

I have a situation with a friend. I only became friendly with her back in May. She lives by me and is my age and single which is sometimes hard to find at 36. I like her enough. She is definitely a care taker but I don't get entwined with that part of her. She has been a good friend when I had surgery etc. The thing is she is super smart but hasnt found a job in a year and a half. It doesnt seem she is looking for one but I realize this is none of my business. But she she doesnt have any money so its hard to go out with her. So. We started going to the local Irish pub. We dont go often. Sometimes months pass and we dont go. We usually go once a month. Its nice because the bartenders there are our age and its nice to get out once in a while. Yes this is a local Irish bar with not many man prospects but we have met a few guys there.

This is where I need help. She complains that there are no man prospects there but she can't afford to go anywhere else. She can barely afford to go to this pub once a month. She sits home all the time. That is her decision. But I made the mistake a few times mentioning I didnt want to go there anymore and yes this was said more out of anger when I had a bad time there.

But I find her judging me. A lot. And I find myself defending myself to her. She always poses her statements with " I love you but". To me that doesnt make her criticism any better. Am I insane for thinking she shouldnt be bothered by my behavior over something like if I want to go back to that pub or not? She doesnt have to go. I feel like I have the right to change my mind without her calling me on it. And this isnt once. She is doing this quit often and the last time I told her frankly I have the right to change my mind as often as I like and it shouldnt make any difference to her. But I also said well it seems like its the pub or staying home because you arent working. Which is the truth. I do go to other places when my other friends are available. She doesnt have any cash. We cant even go out to dinner. I am trying not to judge her for this but I feel like she is backing me into a corner with her statements and the reason we go there is BECAUSE SHE CANT GO ANYWHERE ELSE and the other option is being home all weekend if I have nothing else planned.

Am I wrong for changing my mind? Am I wrong for being peeved she keeps throwing things in my face? Its putting a strain on our relationship and I know she feels it and so do I. I am offended. When she started the I love you but yesterday I stopped her dead in her tracks. But then I felt like I had to explain myself like I was doing something wrong. I really dont want to hear her opinions about my life and I dont ask them. But I feel like when I tell her what is going on or how I am feeling this is her cue to tell me what she thinks.

Any suggestions?

Hugs,
Lulu
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by lulu1974 View Post
The thing is she is super smart but hasnt found a job in a year and a half. It doesnt seem she is looking for one but I realize this is none of my business.
A wise man in AA once told me, "I judge the potential for harm as well as the potential for good in meeting new people."

My friends tend to be others in recovery, who lead a full life, are reasonably happy, and contribute to society.

It is my business to look at what I know of a new person, and make my decisions accordingly.

No job in a year and a half and not really looking? Unless there are circumstances that cause her to be unable to work, that would be red flag #1 for me.

As far as her picking your life apart, well that is something I don't tolerate in my life.

I have a sponsor who will call me on my BS and that is part of the sponsorship deal. I value his guidance.

My question to you is what are you getting out of this relatively new relationship? It's nice she was helpful during your surgery, but what are the benefits currently?
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Old 01-01-2011, 11:53 AM
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Hello ((Freedom)),

She got her masters in Philosophy and incurred a huge amount of student loans. She claims she can not get any type of job because then her loans are triggered and she needs to be able to pay them back and live on what she makes. She has private student loans because she went to school overseas. She wants to work in a charity foundation but those jobs arent hiring right now. She has other options but she claims she is overqualified and that is what everyone tells her. And she refuses to go back to the administrative field which is where her experience is and is hiring right now. The truth is she may be over educated but she has never worked in the industry so she is not overqualified. She lives in her mother's basement and her mother covers her medical bills which are steep. She says she will pay her back someday.

The only thing I get out of the frendship now is some companionship. At times. And when she isnt judding me its fine. But some of the men we have met, she has dated and they are nice fellows and I get along great with them and they always say lets go out... seems friendly and innocent but out of respect for her I dont go. There was a fellow a while back that we met that we both really liked and he was interested in me but out of respect for her I let it be. Now there is a sweet guy who wants to be friends with me that she dated. I was out with other friends one night and ran into him and we chatted and hung out and we have a lot in common - but I am not interested in him beyond friends. Now I know with guys you have to be careful because it may never be innocent but I would really like to meet other people around my neighborhood..male or female. And I try but its not so easy at my age. When she heard we hung out she was taken back although I told her from the beginning we were platonic and we were just friends that ran into each other. I alos dated his friend so we have some history.

I am getting tired of the restrictions with her. I am doing nothing wrong and would never disrespect her but I also want to make friends so she needs to stop dating the guys that I would like to be friends with. lol. Bad joke I know.

But yes. I am not sure how to go about a friendship like this. It feels similiar to my marriage at times. I have a friend to hang out with...but there is a ton of limitations due to her economic situation. Maybe a little distance wont hurt right now.


Hugs,
Lulu
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Old 01-01-2011, 12:32 PM
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Smile

After reading your post the first thought I had was "Going to a pub sound for a person in recovery sounds as bad as a person a diet hanging out in a donut shop for coffee."

Sounds like your friend is frustrated and depressed about her job prospects, as millions of people are today, and she is overwhelmed and immobilized by fear. You might want to take her down to the employment commission and help her meet with someone to discuss options. Surely there is an unemployment recovery group just as there is a sober recovery group! Maybe this is your chance to help her get back on her feet. If she claims that money, men, life, location are all held in stasis until she can get a job, than the job is the priority. I think that the student loan demands kick in only with full-time employment, but it is worth asking. She can always negotiate with the loan companies to pay back at a lower rate. Better some money than none.

I would not ditch her for being human. There are far too few people out there who would step up and help us. Unless you are covered in people who care, try working out your differences rather than tossing her over because you have problems.
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Old 01-01-2011, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by kilt View Post
After reading your post the first thought I had was "Going to a pub sound for a person in recovery sounds as bad as a person a diet hanging out in a donut shop for coffee."

Sounds like your friend is frustrated and depressed about her job prospects, as millions of people are today, and she is overwhelmed and immobilized by fear. You might want to take her down to the employment commission and help her meet with someone to discuss options. Surely there is an unemployment recovery group just as there is a sober recovery group! Maybe this is your chance to help her get back on her feet. If she claims that money, men, life, location are all held in stasis until she can get a job, than the job is the priority. I think that the student loan demands kick in only with full-time employment, but it is worth asking. She can always negotiate with the loan companies to pay back at a lower rate. Better some money than none.

I would not ditch her for being human. There are far too few people out there who would step up and help us. Unless you are covered in people who care, try working out your differences rather than tossing her over because you have problems.
Thank you so much for your feedback. I just feel that its not place to take her to the unemployment office. She is pretty smart and knows all her options. She volunteers for the voting polls in the county and her mom works for the county.
I started a new job recently so I looked at the company website to see what positions were available that she may find interesting but there was nothing. When I told her I had looked she said. "That's ok. I am not really focusing on a job until the New Year. Then I will buckle down. " To me that seemed like she didnt want my help. It kind of seemed like she was telling me to mind my own business in a polite way. And she was probably right. Her job situation isnt my business. She is a grown woman.
Its really her choice to look for a job and see what her options are. I have bought us dinner many times etc and tried to be considerate of her circumstances. But this isnt about her circumstance, its about how I am feeling when she is judging my life/choices.
I am not throwing her away. Just because I mentioned some distance that was more for my benefit to I can get away from the situation and see it from a less emotional perspective.
Hugs
Lulu
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Old 01-01-2011, 02:30 PM
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Lulu,

I had a friend who kept setting more and more limitations on me under different guises. My counselor told me that I had to start setting boundaries in that friendship. I couldn't quite figure out how to do that diplomatically and in that particular situation. It wound up that the friendship ended.
It would be nice, I suppose, if I said I regret that it ended..but that would not be the truth.

I like my freedom and don't want anyone setting rules, guidelines, limitations on me. I would honestly interpret some of what she is doing as lack of real respect for you. Why do her needs get placed above your own, why are you the one making the concessions in order to have this friendship?
I am willing to be considerate and to compromise...but it really only works if it is win-win.

hugs
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Old 01-01-2011, 03:11 PM
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This is why I am in recovery.

Figuratively, I am this friend.

It hurts to know I have done this to others in my codependency.
In my insatiable need for friendship I overstep boundaries. I tell people what they ought to do with their lives regardless of the shambles my own might be in at the time or whether any advice was sought in the first place. I set limits on them in an effort to control them and keep them with me. I use emotional manipulation guilting them so they console me and build me up rather than mutual supporting one another.

I read what you've written Lulu and I wonder how many times in the past my friends and family asked each other for support and wisdom in dealing with me. Ouch.

I can't say that I would have understood if someone set boundaries and limits with me and tried to detach from me. I know that at times people pulled back from me and I didn't know why and I was deeply upset. I know that at times friends have blown up at me and tried to tell me how my behavior affected them, but I always saw it as an unprovoked attack. I was, after all, just trying to be a good friend, helpful, kind, loyal, all those good things, right? I know now that these are just the things I told myself to justify smothering other people.

Before, I was blind, but now I see.

I have to agree that boundaries and detachment are healthy actions for you. When in doubt, use the tools you have. How the friendship fares going forward, though, is unknown.

Hugs,
Alice
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Old 01-01-2011, 03:31 PM
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Thank you Alice for your brave and honest share. I hope one day I can see inside myself as you have.
Hugs
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Old 01-01-2011, 03:32 PM
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I set limits on them in an effort to control them and keep them with me. I use emotional manipulation guilting them so they console me and build me up rather than mutual supporting one another.
Thank you Alice. How close that is to what I do is scary, and I greatly appreciate you putting it into words. I either do not want to connect at all, or be in total control, so they NEED me, and they won't ABANDON me. But, it does not work.

Lulu,
Your friend is probably not doing this on purpose, but if she is feeling low, she could use you as her mirror, or her sounding board. If you are to continue to be friends with her, maybe try to set some boundaries on her manipulations.
It is difficult to say things like this but, if you dont get a handle on this, she will be running you.

It feels similiar to my marriage at times. I have a friend to hang out with...but there is a ton of limitations due to her economic situation. Maybe a little distance wont hurt right now.
This statement is very insightful, and if you decide to get some distance right now, think about what you want in a friendship.

Beth

behind you all the way and cheering you on your recovery.
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Old 01-01-2011, 03:37 PM
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Alice ... wonderful for you to post a reality check. I've been sober a long time and I can become like your friend as well if I stop doing my program. That's when I've lost friends, and with very good reason.

Fortunately I haven't had to regress to this self-centered, self-involved state. I learned to take responsibility for myself, which your friend is incapable of doing while drinking. Now you must take care of yourself as well.

One of my favorite lines is when Louise says to Thelma: "Thelma, you get what you settle for." Active addicts/alcoholics never improve, things only get worse.
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Old 01-01-2011, 04:38 PM
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So your in recovery and hanging in bars?
That would be more than I could handle on any day.
Ever hear the song "Looking for Love in all the Wrong Places"?
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Old 01-01-2011, 04:43 PM
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925girl,
she is not in recovery from alcohol, but being married to an alcoholic.
but, i am thinking it is still not a good place to meet friends.
hmmmm
how about meetup.com?
activities you are interested in and meet people interested in the same thing.
\
Beth
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Old 01-01-2011, 06:47 PM
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Lulu hi honey!! I have been out of sorts and not here much lately so it is good to see a post from you! You sound good, despite this latest issue, which I am glad for.

Like the other posters said, I also think the boundary-setting is a good thing to practice with this friend. But also, make sure to look closely at yourself. I read a little bit of maybe excuses for why you are friends with this person even though she is not at your level and it sounds like you might be caretaking or at least not getting as much out of the relationship as you would if she were pulling her own weight. Are you accepting less than what you want or need in your life and making excuses for doing so? Just an idea.

One other thing which I realized about myself is that I say I don't care about what someone else is doing but I think inside I DO judge them or their behavior. Then I am appalled when they judge me! I started doing this in order to work up the courage to leave an alcoholic addict, and it became ingrained I guess.

Hope something here is helpful Lulu
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 925girl View Post
So your in recovery and hanging in bars?
That would be more than I could handle on any day.
Ever hear the song "Looking for Love in all the Wrong Places"?
I actually dont appreciate your post but ok. I will take what I need and leave the rest. I am not an alcoholic so I didnt realize I am not allowed in bars when I would like to have a glass of wine or a beer. I am not looking for love there. I dont see myself posting that so not sure why you are assuming that. I am looking to meet new people because I know about 5 people in my town. Not EVERYONE in a bar is an alcoholic. Its a social opportunity where I live. And I dont need you to judge me for it. So let me go to Alanon mtgs every night and never meet any people my age?

So let me get this straight? Because I married an alcoholic I should never go to a bar again? Are wedding off limits too because there is booze there? Should I leave a friend's house if there is alocohol there?

I have never been nasty or rude on this site but youre attacking me. And making assumptions. You dont want to go to a bar - fine with me. Dont worry I wont judge you for it
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by wicked View Post
925girl,
she is not in recovery from alcohol, but being married to an alcoholic.
but, i am thinking it is still not a good place to meet friends.
hmmmm
how about meetup.com?
activities you are interested in and meet people interested in the same thing.
\
Beth
Thank you wicked..xoxo. I know its not the best place and that is why I only do it once in a while. I did try meetup.com and apparently no one in NJ needs friends. LOL. I know how weird that sounds but even a friend of mine on this site checked it out and she was just as shocked as I was. Maybe now that the holidays are done more will open up. I kind of live in this area where you are either married or the social thing to do is happy hour/ bars. I have looked into volunteering and there is nothing around me. And the local hospitals are asking for help during working hours. Seniot citizen homes are about an hour and a half away from me so cant do that. And I am allergic to pet dander so scratch animal shelters.
I do feel stuck. I am trying to meet people and have a life again and there is nothing out here. Its actually really frustrating for me. I even left this to my HP..then I got really lonely. lol
When I called my church and asked them what kind of volunteering programs they could recommend they said I could help clean the church. They do it once a month. lol
I am open for suggestions. I really am.

Hugs,

Lulu
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
Lulu hi honey!! I have been out of sorts and not here much lately so it is good to see a post from you! You sound good, despite this latest issue, which I am glad for.

Like the other posters said, I also think the boundary-setting is a good thing to practice with this friend. But also, make sure to look closely at yourself. I read a little bit of maybe excuses for why you are friends with this person even though she is not at your level and it sounds like you might be caretaking or at least not getting as much out of the relationship as you would if she were pulling her own weight. Are you accepting less than what you want or need in your life and making excuses for doing so? Just an idea.

One other thing which I realized about myself is that I say I don't care about what someone else is doing but I think inside I DO judge them or their behavior. Then I am appalled when they judge me! I started doing this in order to work up the courage to leave an alcoholic addict, and it became ingrained I guess.

Hope something here is helpful Lulu
(((L2L)))

I am making excuses. And the friendship has just started to sour within the last few weeks so its time for some inventory. And I guess leaving my only single friend that I know will be similiar to leaving my A. lol. It will be unchartered territory. I will be home alone on the weekends but what can I do.

I may judge her once in a while when I hear her mother cant retire and she is 70 and trying to make ends meet while she sits home. I try not to think about it. I refocus and tell myself this is her life and their circumstances dont involve me.

But I was thinking of what Freedom said earlier. Maybe it is my business to see how someone else is living their life..because whatever issues they are having have a good chance of spilling out on me. And the friends that I do have that are healthy and living their lives in a healthy manner dont treat me like this. They are supportive and understanding. And even though they are married they still try to socialize and take me out. And we can laugh at each other but we never judge one another.

And I am trying to look at myself to see if maybe my indecisiveness is a character issue but then I think about all that has happened in 12 months alone and I think I am doing alright. I had two surgeries, got divorced, lost 35 lbs, got the roof done, got the patio done and got another job. I think maybe after going through all that in 12 months with the immense pressure on my shoulders, maybe it was good I was indecisive with certain things. I think maybe I was just trying to make good decisions for myself.

I really would like to meet more friends that I have more in common with now that I am single again. That is something I would like to focus on in the New Year.

Sorry for the long post L2L and good to hear from you again!!!

Hugs
Eva
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Old 01-01-2011, 10:45 PM
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Sorry did not read your post as well as I should have. What I meant by looking for love was not that you were looking for a hook up just looking for love...from a sympathetic friend or aquaintance. Love comes in many forms. I totally misread your post. Sorry. Really not trying to attack you; I just misunderstood.
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Old 01-02-2011, 04:53 AM
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Thanks Lulu/Eva. It sounds to me like your larger issue has less to do with this woman and more to do with the opportunities available to you in your community. I guess moving is out of the question? One idea: I took some classes at the local community college and met lots of single people there.
(((hugs)))
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Old 01-02-2011, 05:50 AM
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Hi there Eva,

I read your post last night but needed to spend some time before responding. This issue hits close to home for me, I totally get it. In fact, I may post a thread about it so I don't hijack yours. Excellent topic though, thanks for bringing it up.

I hear you about wanting to be with people who are single and close to your age. I like L2L's suggestion about classes. Are there other Alanon groups you could go to, even if you have to travel?

My empathies with you, I know it's not easy, and you've been through so much this year. Us single gals have to stick together...I hope you'll keep coming back and remember, you are worth the most amazing friendships. And, and perhaps most importantly, you are the very best friend you could have for yourself. I'm trying to make my relationship with myself a priority, right after my relationship with my HP (who will never abandon us, even if we abandon ourselves).

Hugs!
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Old 01-02-2011, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 925girl View Post
Sorry did not read your post as well as I should have. What I meant by looking for love was not that you were looking for a hook up just looking for love...from a sympathetic friend or aquaintance. Love comes in many forms. I totally misread your post. Sorry. Really not trying to attack you; I just misunderstood.
I am sorry 925girl. I dont usually get so upset and thanks for this. It really is just so hard to meet people at this point in my life. I kind of feel like I am out of options and I dont want to feel that way you know? I want to live. And yes I am ok by myself and can read and do other things but it gets lonely. Thank you for your reply.

Hugs
Lulu
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