FSquared

Hi all. Its been a while since I last posted. About 18 months ago I sought out Al Anon in relation to my wife's alcoholism, and my own problems associated with being family to the disease. I have been going faithfully since then, even to the point where I am now group rep for my home group.

It took me about 6 months to screw up the courage to seek out a sponsor and try to get one. I'm a guy, and there just aren't that many with long term Al Anon "sobriety" in the groups I attend. The guy I asked is a great guy, and certainly has a lot of wisdom. But in terms of helping me work a real program and move forward in my own life, it isn't happening. I'll own that much of that is my own fault. But on the other hand, the sponsor chemistry just isn't happening...at least as I see with others and their sponsors.

As a result, I've been stalled out at step 4 in my own program. I have a lot of fear and just generally haven't moved off my duff to get past that hump. I know I need to. I find myself having old thought patterns and actions...including compulsive spending to appease my old feelings of inadequacy and loneliness. And frankly I've found myself drinking more and actually looking for the buzz to hide from the feelings. That is a red flag for me. I have never really been a drinker before now...at least not that I would have even entertained the thought of it being a problem...just the occasional drink with friends at dinner.

Anyway...I'm trying to seek a sponsor who will help me move forward. Has anyone here used an AA sponsor to work an Al Anon program? I don't see the things as much different...just two sides of the same illness. I don't know even now that I would classify my current alcohol use as a problem, but it certainly isn't beyond possibility. Nobody else has raised the issue (I know....that isn't a good indicator! ;-) I'm considering an AA sponsor because the AA guys I know who are sponsors are strong in their programs and don't sugarcoat things with their sponsees. I want someone who won't sugarcoat things, or do the seemingly usual Al Anon thing and just look past times when we duck the blame and shove it toward the alcoholic. I want someone interested in me moving forward and who won't tolerate or stick around if I'm not holding up my end of the bargain.

Has anyone on the Al Anon side later developed a problem with drinking themselves? What about spending/credit? Or any other such thing to cover the scars, pain, depression or whatever is underneath all this junk inside us?

Mostly I'm done feeling the way I do. It had gone for a while, while I was really doing something in my program. But I've dropped my ball and need to pick it up again.

I'm trying not to beat myself up too bad for ending up in a relapsive state, but this crap is hard.

Thanks for letting me share...

suki44883

Some of us are double winners; both alcoholics and family of alcoholics. You're right, it's pretty much the same program. I don't do AA or al-anon, but it seems to me if you don't feel that chemistry with your sponsor, maybe you should find another. I know of people who just didn't feel like their sponsor was relating to them or vise-versa in the way that is necessary to truly work the program.

Just curious...how is the situation with your wife? Are you still together? Is she still drinking? Do you drink with her?

laurie6781

I got to Al-Anon through AA years ago. However, I have over the years met many who have gotten to AA through Al-Anon.

There is a phrase in the BB of AA in the first paragraph of Chapter 4 "We Agnostics" that says:

" If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. "

That is what did it for me when I was having doubts (King Alcohol was again telling me I needed him after 30 days dry).

At this point it is what you feel will help you most and if you feel an AA sponsor can help you then by all means start looking for one.

Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing as we do care very much!

Love and hugs,

fourmaggie

thats a good question...I am in alanon but my AUNT has 5 years soberity...and i love how she works the program...I dont have her as a sponsor...but man, does she get alot of phone calls from me...very enlightened! I love that i can talk to her about my work in the fellowship and her own....funny, i asked her if i can join her AA group for doing the step work, her comment was...Its open to anyone and everyone, for what ever reasons..no judgement, and i so love that

FSquared

Thanks, all...for the comments so far.

Suki...the situation with my wife is very good. For her part, she is working a strong program, has worked all of the steps, and even has taken on sponsees. She does not drink with me. I do not drink all that much, though lately it has gotten heavier. For me, "heavier" means more than one drink a day (maybe 2 or even an odd 3), but more troubling is the fact that when I don't have any in the house, and find myself wanting one, I am fixated on it until I go get some. That has never been the case before. If there wasn't any in the house, I didn't go get it, and didn't even give it a second thought. On a recent business trip I found myself leaving the hotel at 9:00 PM and heading to a bar specifically to get a drink. That just isn't me...or at least it used to not be me. Something else is going on. I've spent long enough on the Al Anon side of the disease to question what I'm doing.

At the core of it, I'm just not feeling all that great about my program, regardless of what the impetuous is for working it.

I just got back from visiting family and my two oldest children for Christmas. There is a lot of baggage and unresolved issues with my children, and to a lesser extent, my family. I thought I would be better able to relate, having all this time in Al Anon to get over myself and from the work that I have managed to get done. Nope. Same result. I don't feel able to truly relate to my 22 year old daughter, and perhaps even less so, to my 16 year old son. I walk into that situation with baggage and feelings of inadequacy as a parent. Their mother and I divorced when they were 6 years old and 11 months old respectively...and I've felt guilty ever since, even though I was not the one who wanted or sought the divorce. I've been pretty much absent in their lives since then due to geographic separation. Or whatever. Its a cross I toss myself up on a lot when I'm feeling sorry for myself.

But back to my wife and our situation...as I said, its pretty darn good. Except that I'm stagnant, and slipping back into old ways, spending on credit and other thought patterns that are indicators that I'm not working forward in recovery. We are committed to living in and creating a "recovering household". We made that commitment this time around (18 months ago). And it goes both ways. And I am not holding up my end of the rope... I suppose I was arrogant enough to have thought my part would be easy. Its not. I know that I must get over myself and want recovery. If I do not, I will remain in my misery and even more, will lose all that I really care about.

suki44883

Well, I see a lot of honesty in your post. You know all the right things to do, but, for whatever reason, don't seem to have the energy to do them. Perhaps you're depressed. Stranger things have happened. I read in a book the other day that you know you are truly clinically depressed when you feel like dying, and the cure to your problem is sitting on a table 6 feet away, and you're just too tired to go get it. Maybe you should visit your doctor. Just a suggestion. I can only go by what I read from you, but you do sound like you could be suffering from depression.

coyote21

I've got a sponsor, I used to meet with him an hour a week and worked the first 3 steps.

Now I'm stuck on step 4 for over 2 years. I don't use my sponsor, probably my own fault, but I also don't "feel it" with him, never have. Of course that may be my stuff. I pull the workbook out from time to time, and work a few sections, but it's so daunting, I feel over whelmed.

What approach are you taking to step 4?

I don't really have any advice, but I kind of get where you're coming from, I feel stagnant as well.

Oh, and I'm a recovered drunk as well. Got sentenced to AA by a CPS judge during a custody battle, after I'd already quit drinking over a year before. I went for about a year, but didn't get much out of it.

I don't worry about drinking again, but I do feel my emotional "sobriety" isn't as good as it could be. I think I may seek out a new sponsor myself. Mine has suffered some health issues lately, which may make it easier for me to exit, more gracefully.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

wicked

Thank you suki.
Now, I know how to explain it. I am not "blue" or feeling "down" and I cannot just "cheer up". When I am in the abyss, I cannot get six feet to the cure.
Yes, exactly.

Beth

suki44883

Glad it helped, wicked. I got that from a book by, of all people, Dick Cavett. I love that guy, and never knew he went through that. What he said stuck with me because I understand exactly how he felt and what he said explains it perfectly.

naive

hi fsquared-

i remember you and also, i remember your wife. i have often wondered how she was doing, as she caught my interest because i could feel her determination to turn things around and i felt her true surrender. i'm glad to hear she's doing well.

regarding your situation, if i may take a leap here, 18 months ago when you both committed to your plan of action, i felt that she was a drug addict and you were suffering as a result of the chaos that brought into your life; however, you were speaking as if you were both equally ill.

the thing is, tho, that she had a chemical dependency and you didn't. sure, as co-dependents we have our own issues to address but i don't think that it rivals having a chemical dependency.

in my opinion, you wanted to be equally as sick as she was as the two of you set off to jointly recover. but you didn't have a chemical dependency, which is perhaps why you want now to have an AA sponsor, because it's almost as if you want to have one, so that the two of you can have the same thing together and beat it together.

and now you are noting a new yearning for alcohol? a drink or two a night doesn't qualify as an alcoholic. and you want an AA sponsor? i would ask myself why you want to be in AA when you are not an alcoholic?

my feeling is that you feel a little bit left behind in all her changes and successes and this is leaving you feeling lost and without direction.

for myself, i find personal therapy useful and also, the feedback on this board. it doesn't sound as if you have found the "recipe" for your own issues yet...perhaps sharing a bit more here might open up something for you...

Floss

Hi FS, I relate a lot to your post. Whilst I'm not in recovery with my partner (he's an active alcoholic) and am in recovery on my own, I too have found the Al-Anon approach too softly, softly for my liking (although I've heard not all meetings are like this) and found myself relating to AA more. I remember going to my first AA meeting and feeling like I belonged. When they spoke about not feeling comfortable in their own skin, the disappointments, frustrations, resentments, I understood everything they were saying and I related to it. Then I heard the stories of strength and hope and I felt hope too that if I worked the program as they do, I may also experience some of the peace and serenity they have. I decided I wanted a program for ME. I wanted a program to help me recover/discover. Then I discovered the Laundry List for Adult Children of Alcoholics. Now I had my answer. I discovered as Adult Children of, we take on the characteristics of the alcoholic without picking up the drink. And we marry alcoholics, become alcoholics or both...etc etc. It's well worth looking at if you are an Adult Child of an Alcoholic/addict.

If there was an ACoA meeting anywhere near me, I'd be attending that. It would probably be a good fit for me. I've heard some of them are very much like Al-Anon. Some though, are more in your face and confronting. That's the type I need. I also agree it's two sides of the same coin, especially, I think, if you were raised in an alcoholic household. I don't have a sponsor at present, but a woman I met at AA, gave me her number. She also attends Nar-Anon. I related better to her than the people I met at my Al-Anon group. (I wrote about my Al-Anon meetings in a recent post of mine...great and lovely people, just at a different place than me). Because they both work the 12 steps, I don't see it being a problem, but I'm not sure whether you'd have to identify yourself as being an A? Some of the meetings are closed and maybe you need to identify as being an A to have a sponsor from AA? I'm don't know the answer to that.

As for over spending. I don't have a problem with that. As for drinking, well, since my separation 16 months ago, I've had my moments. I didn't drink whilst I was with my exADFH or my exAH. I didn't feel safe around alcohol or the men in my life who drank it. I related alcohol to misery and I have kids and responsibilities and the two for me did not mix. I just did not like it. When I was younger though, before kids, I drank loads of alcohol and I smoked the funny stuff. I was also kicked out of home at 16 and rebelled and was angry and this went hand in hand with my behaviour.

Before my separation, I'd be lucky to get through a standard glass of wine on a special occasion. Since my separation, I've had to pull myself up, because at times, when I haven't had my kids, and I've been in the 'right' environment, with friends who drink and/ or are alcoholic (functioning ones), I have drunk to excess. And I mean more than a few drinks. I'm talking about binging. That is/was so not me and there I was, with an attitude of "I don't give a f**k" (the same type of attitude I had when I was younger) drinking. Not a good combination. It was a red flag for me, big time. No wonder I found myself feeling comfortable in AA. I didn't even realise I may have a problem until I felt like I related in AA and spoke to a couple of old timers about it.

I don't have alcohol in my home now, for a few reasons including that I will be tempted to drink it. Secondly, I do not get a buzz or a hit from spirits. I can drink and drink them, feel completely sober and act sober. That is scary and I don't want to fall into the temptation of having a few or more vodka and sodas and thinking I'm okay. The most important reason is because I have an alcohol free zone at home. I don't want my kids raised in a home where drinking is seen as the norm (when it actually is where I come from. I'm one of the only people I know who doesn't regularly drink in the home) and I don't want my kids to see me drinking.

One of the 'old timers' pointed out to me, that if I didn't have a problem with alcohol, I could have alcohol at home and not worry about it. That I could have one drink and stop. That I wouldn't feel guilty if I drank. These are some things for you to think about. I don't know whether you have an alcohol problem, only you can decide that.

All the best FS. I hope things work out for you and you find a sponsor that's a better fit.

FSquared

Thanks, Floss. I am not, to my knowledge, an ACoA. My grandfather was an alcoholic, and I know...now...that my father had adapted to living with an alcoholic and that affected the way he thought and taught us kids to live.

For Al Anon, I also feel it is often too "softy, softy"...and too often discussion centers around the alcoholic(s) in our lives rather than on our own issues. I've been around long enough to know my poop stinks and I need to clean my own mess.

The AA people I talk to do a better job of holding that mirror up when people start thinking too much of themselves.

I don't know whether I have my own problem with alcohol. I'm simply saying I'm uncomfortable with some situations I've put myself or found myself in that involve alcohol. I probably should work through that with my sponsor.

fourmaggie

in my alanon meeting we have all kinds of issues...but alot of them in the meeting really FOCUS on themselves and how they did it and are doing it...

I still stand by my AUNT....i love how she works her program...I chat alot with her friends and even her sponsor..I do get alot out of them and how they work it.....there has been to many times sitting around the table and they talk about quotes from the big book and I am running to my purse to "get involved" with my big book and involve myself into the chat.

you are searching for the answers, mind you...sometimes we will never get them...but we can search right?...and what does it matter where you get it...from a friend? a AA or NA or CA meeting? or the guy on the bus?.....does not matter as long as you are willing to LOOK for the answers you require...and sit and listen

StarCat

Al-Anon has more focus on the alcoholic because a lot of the people in Al-Anon also have an issue with codependence, and even when seeking recovery it is difficult to break free of that.

Have you tried a different group/meeting? I have been to three so far, one was too structured for me, another was too focused on the person with the problem (and way too formal), the third was just what I need. I do intend to go to several different ones to find a good fit for other days of the week, but I know where I'll be if I decide to go to Al-Anon on Tuesday night.

If one shoe doesn't fit, try another. Maybe another Al-Anon meeting will be a better fit, or maybe AA really is the best fit for you. You don't have to commit to anything today - shop around.

naive

hi again fsquared-

i was thinking that you might benefit from going and reading some of cyranoaks posts...he's joined since you were last here, is a senior member of alanon and i certainly wouldn't call him a softy in his es&h.

i was also wondering if perhaps you could find a sponsor here, amongst us at SR, that suits you more. i don't know if that's done, but i don't see why you couldn't get the support you need one-on-one, via email and phone.

lately, we have a good group of men represented here...perhaps you will discover one you personally fit with....

naive

FSquared

Thanks, Naive. I'll consider it.

StarCat...I will definitely go to other meetings. I am tied to my home group, though, as I am the Group Representative to the district.

Learn2Live

People tend to be obsessive, that's my observation, myself included. Often, we eliminate one obsession only to create another. Was there an obsession you let go of before this new obsession with alcohol? A person who panics when he discovers there is no alcohol in the house, and who leaves at 9PM to go get alcohol, sounds obsessive to me. Talking to a trained therapist might help you sort this out and get a game plan together. I personally would try to worry less about whether or not I am an alcohic and more on whether or not these are healthy behaviors. Also, about the step work, it helps me to write the step out by hand, and work on it by writing things out on lined paper, not just thinking and talking about them.

Hope something here is helpful.

Cyranoak

...and I'd encourage you to not think of it in terms of how fast it is happening. I believe it's an incredibly brave thing to do the steps, and step four especially which is the step, after seven years, that I am on.

Cut yourself some slack, if you don't go to more than one meeting start doing so, and if the sponsor you have now isn't working for you that's ok. It isn't personal, it simply is what it is. Find another. This can take a long time or a short time-- it takes as long as it takes.

A couple of things-- a basic principal of Al-Anon is to keep the programs separate. You talk about Al-Anon in Al-Anon, you talk about AA in AA, and you do your absoulute best not to bring one into the other meeting. Outside of the meetings, I don't know. I do know that my sponsor is a double winner, and has worked the steps in both programs.

However, when working my program he never talks about AA and I appreciate that-- it's about Al-Anon for me. I don't believe somebody who has not worked the steps from an Al-Anon perspective should be sponsoring somebody in Al-Anon. You don't teach sombody to fly a plane if all you've flown is a helicopter-- the challenges can be very different from AA and Al-Anon, even if you percieve them as two sides of the same coin (heads looks a lot different than tails). That said, whatever works, works, and there are shared experiences in having worked the steps, even if you haven't finished them.

If what you want is a sponsor strong in their program who doesn't sugarcoat things with their sponsees, duck blame, or shove it toward the alcoholic; someone interested in you moving forward and who won't tolerate or stick around if you're not holding up your end of the bargain, rest assured it's not about Al-Anon or AA sponsors. It's about you and your sponsor. There are many, many, many Al-Anon sponsors who will do just that. To blame Al-Anon for your dissatisfaction with your sponsor is obfuscation and shifting blame (ironically, exactly what you say you don't want).

As for people in Al-Anon having drinking problems, spending problems, etc., and the reasons they might have them? People are people. Codependancy and controlling characteristics are not mutually exclusive with other issues. There are plenty of people in Al-Anon, just like in the regular world, who struggle with all sorts of issues.

Al-Anon helps me be happier and a better person. It helps me acknowledge and deal with my personal issues in a better way than I was before, and has helped me to eliminate some of them, and mitigate all of the rest. Most importantly of all it has helped me to be honest about myself with myself and others. It's the best thing that has ever happened to me.

Good luck my friend. Take what you want and leave the rest.

Cyranoak

stilllearning

Not much to add here but just wanted to say how grateful I am for this thread. I'm 15 months in Al-anon, five and a half years sober and am working veeery slowly through step four.

I've posted about it before but I've had some problems with my sponsor that I've been putting off for about two months now. It's just not working out - she has two years in the program and is still extremely focused on her RA partner. To the point where she goes to three AA meetings a week with him and one Al-anon meeting (my home group). An AA sponsor (her partner's first sponsor) took her through the steps in her first six months and she hasn't had a sponsor since.

I think she's over-focused on the fact that I'm a double winner. I hear a lot of AA in our meetings (until recently we met once a week and I never skipped a session). I feel, to be honest, like she's still trying to "fix" the alcoholic - in this instance that would be me. I'm confident in my sobriety - and I desperately need to focus on my Al-anon program. I'm an adult child (she isn't) and I think it would be really helpful to have a sponsor who's also an adult child.

I hear a lot from her about what's going on in AA and a lot of private information about her husband's sponsees. This makes me extremely uncomfortable and more than a little worried that my private information might also be shared with either her partner or other members of the recovery community.

Bottom line - I'm not willing to share my step four with her. And I miss the routine of meeting weekly - but I want and need Al-anon right now, not AA (unpacking decades of adult child stuff) and I want to be able to trust my sponsor. I've been struggling for weeks with whether this is my issue (my fault) whether I'm being too hard on her, you name it. Is this just my way of blame shifting because step four is making me uncomfortable? I don't think it is but it's a relief to hear someone else is in the same boat.

Would love for you to keep us posted FSquare - if you do change sponsor how do you pan on having that conversation? I really don't want to hurt her feelings - in many ways she's a great sponsor and a beautiful person. I think she kind of wishes that she were a candidate for AA - she's not. But for my two cents Cyranoak is right on the money - a basic principle is to keep the programs separate. It's important.

And as a double winner I can honestly say that the 12 steps are the same but I'm looking at very different issues as an adult child than I've had to face (and still do) as an alcoholic. Some days I feel like I have a split personality - the alcoholic is stamping her feet and wants things her way and the alanonic is running in circles trying to please everyone else. God help me :-)

Happy new year everyone,

SL

FSquared

Thanks, Cyranoak! I find a lot of wisdom in your post. Thank you so much.