Can someone explain to me

Old 12-27-2010, 09:15 PM
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Can someone explain to me

what the motivation for enabling is? Because I was not raised with this. In my family, love never meant getting overly involved in others' lives; if anything, I was left entirely too much to my own devices when I was growing up. I learned, you're on your own, and you darn better be able to rely on yourself. It never occurred to me to try to take care of anyone else too, other than my child. Anyway...

I went to pick up my daughter last week at a local coffee house; my aexh and his gf dropped her off.

I asked my aexh what he wanted to do about the next exchange, and he began to tell me what time he had to be at work and his girlfriend said: "That's MY responsibility!"

And I thought: No, actually it isn't, and you aren't doing yourself or him any favors by getting involved. But she wasn't being deliberately pushy, I don't think. She really does believe it's her job.

I didn't say anything, or get quietly angry (and believe me, that's progress). If it's a problem, it's their problem. She told me what time she could bring my daughter to our meeting spot, then she text messaged me this morning to entirely change plans and have me pick her up tomorrow instead way out of my way... in their neighborhood.

I don't get this. I mean, I get not giving a rip about my plans or putting me out of my way, that's nothing new. But jumping in to take care of his life at every possible turn? Granted, understanding is overrated, but from my vantage point, it looks like she thinks if she puts enough effort into making things cushy for him, that he'll break down and marry her... or at least, get comfy enough not to ever want to leave. Does this not look like a losing proposition from a mile away? She doesn't seem tired, but the amount of effort that she puts in would exhaust me. I'm not being snotty. I really don't have that kind of energy. I can barely take care of me and my daughter most of the time.

Now this is not a woman who really needs to rearrange her life around my aexh (or any specific man). She's beautiful, interesting and somewhat of a minor celebrity among a specific group in our city. She has a lot to offer, she could well sit back and let the fellows come to her; even my aexh. My guess is, he'd make an effort for her if he had to. Instead, she's showing my daughter that it's a woman's job to be the super responsible party, that men are incompetent and need to be taken care of, and that it's normal to take on the devotion and hard work of marriage without any such commitment from one's partner. I interact with them very little... but even so, in conversation between the 3 of us, this woman cannot go five minutes without saying, "I'll do that!" in some form (of course, my aexh can do 90% of this stuff she takes on. I've seen him do poorly an adult and a father at times, but I've seen him do perfectly well at other times. As for being a mother, last year I got blue in the face trying to explain nicely to her what parts of parenting were my job and not hers, and then I got tired of being nice and became ugly about it).

Can someone who's been there tell me, and I'm sorry if this is offensive, what on earth one expects to accomplish by arranging one's life around taking care of the responsibilities of another adult?
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Old 12-27-2010, 09:44 PM
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Ew.

My theory-she's insanely insecure and attracts attention in any way possible. Control freak. Possibly an alien. Does she have slanted eyes?
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Old 12-27-2010, 10:42 PM
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LOL!!!

They're heeeeere.


And yeah, I think it is control-freakish type of woman or a perfectionist who'd rather do EVERYTHING because others mess it up.
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Old 12-27-2010, 10:49 PM
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I can't speak for the girlfriend. I imagine there are lots of different 'reasons'.

I did it for years. I confused lots of things for love. I was afraid and insecure that my world would fall apart and that I could never have what I wanted, so I tried to control everything to make sure I got it. It didn't work btw. I didn't get what I wanted, my world did fall apart - and low and behold I lived to tell about it

I think boundaries are the single biggest issue I struggle with. Here is an article that really resonates with me. It speaks about unhealthy emotional boundaries and how that effects relationships. Emotional Boundaries

All of it hits home with me but this section talks about the controlling.
Over-Responsibility and Guilt
One characteristic of growing up in a dysfunctional household is that we may learn to feel guilty if we fail to ensure the success and happiness of other members of the household. We may feel responsible or be made to feel responsible for the failure or unhappiness of others. Thus, in adulthood, we may come to feel or be made to feel responsible for our partner's failures. The guilt we feel when our partner fails may drive us to keep tearing down our personal boundaries so that we are always available to the other person. When we feel the pain, the guilt, the anger of being overly responsible for another person's behaviour or life experiences, we may seek alleviate this feeling by rescuing them from the consequences of their behaviour as we learned in our family of origin. Thereby depriving them of one of the most important features of an independent, healthy and mature life, the ability to make our own life choices, accepting the responsibility for and the consequences of our/their decisions. Or we may bear the burden of their unacceptable behaviour for many years.
I was super responsible and doing things and taking care of things was easy for me. I met and married a man that wasn't so good at it and didn't care if I did it. It 'seemed' to work at first. I felt warm and fuzzy doing it, he felt taken care of and loved. I took over all kinds of things. More and more things. Alcoholism progressed, children arrived. I took over more and more. He did less and less. It was a disaster of my own making. It hurt both him and I very badly.
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Old 12-27-2010, 11:26 PM
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Do you know XAH's GF?!?!

Eeeeeeeew is right. XAH's GF is holding his hand and trying to make sure that he does everything the court ordered him to with regards to the divorce and his parenting and legal obligations. I'm so lucky he has her.

She has stepped right in to tend to his every need. (I just made myself a bit sick there.) She's made sure he has a new phone when his 'accidentally' gets thrown at the ground or wall, let him drive her car for over a year without a license, made sure he got his own car when he was caught out on not getting his drivers license, makes sure our DS is picked up for each of his visits on time..... Heck, she's made sure the visits actually happen. Something neither his dad or sister were able to nag him into doing.... I can go on. But your description of your aexh's GF behavior sounds so familiar.

She's starting to fall down on the job, btw: he hasn't turned in all his paperwork for the child support calculation, hasn't given me back my stuff he took to a friend's house, or started paying any child support yet.... What's she waiting for? Oh, right. The a-- to actually do something a grown up should be able to handle. Sorry a bit bitter today.

If I'm really honest, I did all of that same babying him cr-p, too. Part of it was that I was (am, but trying to get over it) very insecure. I didn't think I could do better than him. In our early relationship I connected him with security, but I didn't adjust that perception when it was so clearly not fitting. I thought that if I tried just a little bit harder, he would love me.

I'm not sure that's the case with the GF, but just saying. Of course, I firmly want to believe that XAH's GF is just a bizarre alien, even though I'm the one with slanty eyes. I've even got half-empty glasses of water all over my room to prove I'm not the alien.
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Old 12-28-2010, 01:23 AM
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The OW can baby XAH as much as she likes. I don't care, I don't have to do it!
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Old 12-28-2010, 03:45 AM
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I was raised to be responsible for myself- super, over-responsible for myself, I have huge problems asking for any help. I picked up my rsponsibilities. My brother was raised the same BUT when he didn't pick up his responsibilities in dramatic fashion he was rescued time and again because well I don't know, you'd have to ask my parents, but I guess because he was young, the mistakes were big and they didn't want teenage mistakes to mar his life.

I was also raised to give people the benefit of the doubt, to always try to view things from anothers point of view, to the point that when I was being bullied, I was asked to examine my own behaviour to see what I had done to precipitate this.

I have developed dysfunctional views regarding what love and caring is, my parents stayed in a horrible marriage that didn't fulfil either of their needs and although I saw this, when as a child I tried to express this to family members or other adults, I was told that I didn't understand adult relationships and things weren't as bad as I described, and that all relationships had problems. From this, and popular culture, I beleived that once in a relationship I had to try really hard to make it work, and stay and compromise. I over compromise, if we had opposing views I started negotitions already being at the middle point, he would go further into his extreme.

So all together this led to me enabling, if I wanted the bills paid (and I did) he proved that he wouldn't do it when we started out, sharing things equally. So I worked out the finances, gave him an amount to pay into a joint account and he had no responsibilities in making sure that money stretched or was on time, left the heating on all day when he wasn't there, because I was paying the bills. I wasn't happy about it, and he continually questioned me about money, thinking I was ripping him off when in fact I ended up paying over double that he was on bills.

I would look at a situation and think is someone not being good with bills, or leaving the televisions on when they leave for work a reason to leave them? the answer I was conditioned to make was "no". So with the leaving option effectively removed from my choices, and him unwilling despite all my remonstrations to act as an adult, the choice that was left was to pick up ever more responsibility. Once we had children this increased exponentially, I was never financially dependent on him. I earn nearly 3 times what he does, and was doing everything else to ensure the children had as chaos-free existance as possible.

I didn't like doing any of this, but it was the only option that I was willing to consider whilst I waited around for him to become someone different. I am hugely insecure and that certainly had a lot to do with it.

There was lots I didn't do, get him up for work, lie to his boss etc, but lots that I did do, not in order to help him, but to try and stabilise my own environment, when really I needed to give myself permission to leave. I think our culture is pervaded with a "must try harder" attitude about relationships that was particularly unhelpful to me.
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:48 AM
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I think most times the "logic" of an enabler has to do with fear of abandonment within the enabler. In that system of logic, to become enmeshed in the life of another brings a (misguided) sense of security - that it is harder for the second party to abandon the enabler if the second party is "dependent" upon them. I think this "logic" is often subsconscious, not on a conscious level.

JMHO

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Old 12-28-2010, 05:57 AM
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I think most times the "logic" of an enabler has to do with fear of abandonment within the enabler
actually I used to wish he would leave me, have an affair, get arrested, go to jail, just go, then the relationship would be over but I wouldn't have to make the decision; I was, for whatever reason, incapable of making, initiating and enforcing the decision to leave.
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Old 12-28-2010, 06:06 AM
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Hmm. Maybe we should expand the language to say "fear of being left ALONE."

I think, though, that they are two sides of the same coin, ultimately.

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Old 12-28-2010, 06:20 AM
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yes, actually, when I think about it this was an abandonment issue, but not abandonment by him, I feared the dissaproval and abandonment of family and friends if I wasn't good enough, didn't try hard enough to compromise and care and support and save the marriage - I didn't do these things from an internal driver, it was all about how others would view me if I didn't and fear of being unloveable by them as a consequence.
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Old 12-28-2010, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by JenT1968 View Post
actually I used to wish he would leave me, have an affair, get arrested, go to jail, just go, then the relationship would be over but I wouldn't have to make the decision; I was, for whatever reason, incapable of making, initiating and enforcing the decision to leave.
This was me exactly. Then when I decided to leave he was stuck like glue.

I wasn't afraid of abandonment and I wasn't afraid of being alone. I'm not sure what I was afraid of actually. I think I was afraid of failing. Failing to be a good mother and providing a two parent home. I was afraid of failing at the marriage not because I wanted it but because, by golly, I set out to succeed and that is that. I had drawn a box with a married couple inside and that was the only option I would allow. The bigger the mess, the darker I drew in the lines of the box.

I craved stability and security. I think that is based in fear but fear of what I'm not sure. He couldn't give me that and I knew it. I didn't expect it when we got married. I didn't think it mattered because I was dead sure I could always take care of myself. Of course, as alcoholism progresses, stability and security get completely unmanagable. I went crazy trying to control all the variables to ensure my own security and stability.

That is a part of the puzzle anyway. ETA: I'm not saying abandonement isn't an issue for me. I'm just not seeing how it fits in yet. I have that book but haven't read it.
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Old 12-28-2010, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by JenT1968 View Post
fear of being unloveable
Wow, I think the whole of codependency is explained by your choice of words, here. Those four words are the driver of codependency, IMHO.

I think this is why codies desperately avoid being alone - because to be alone is to have to face this question inside them by themself, with no input from others, and they somehow doubt the answer due to something in their formative past:

Am I loveable?

I think recovery gives us support and tools to build a healthy answer for ourself. Starting with pulling out the negative voices in our heads and taking a good look at them, and their messages.

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Old 12-28-2010, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by catlovermi View Post
I think most times the "logic" of an enabler has to do with fear of abandonment within the enabler. In that system of logic, to become enmeshed in the life of another brings a (misguided) sense of security - that it is harder for the second party to abandon the enabler if the second party is "dependent" upon them. I think this "logic" is often subsconscious, not on a conscious level.

JMHO

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Yes, I believe this was me. I did so much for so long he felt entitled to it.
I mentioned this in another post. He became like a child, and add in the addiction, well, I was taking care of another child.
Dammit, I want a grown man, but I don't know if I would recognize him.
I am working on that though. I am making my dreams come true a little bit everyday and want to become MORE of me. It's in there, just been bruised a little, but I will coax it out by working very hard to recognize that fearful codie when she wants to control someone.
Sigh......


Thumper,
Get the damn book. I have it on my dining room table, I read the cover and sometimes the contents. Someday, I will do it. Its not like I dont have the time. I can make the time.


Beth
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Old 12-28-2010, 06:53 AM
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I agree with all the above. Also, in my family, loved was 'earned.' Nobody ever gave me a hug just because. It was always to do with some accomplishment or task well done. I learned that in order to be loved, I had to do things that made others happy or proud or whatever.

My mother, and all the women in my family, subscribed to the old-fashioned view of marriage. The one where the man brings home the money and the wife does everything else. Even though my husband never fulfilled that role in our marriage, I still tried to fulfill mine. I was trained to believe that it was my job to take care of him. That's what wives do. I felt like a failure if I didn't.

These patterns get burned into the psyche at a very early age. I didn't consciously believe any of it. I am strong, independent, self-sufficient, and attractive. But I still needed to be needed. It's taken a lot of work to discover all this and begin the process of 'unlearning' it.

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Old 12-28-2010, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by wicked View Post
Thumper,
Get the damn book. I have it on my dining room table, I read the cover and sometimes the contents. Someday, I will do it. Its not like I dont have the time. I can make the time.


Beth
I did order it but haven't read it yet. I'm trying to get through another one first but have stalled on that.

I think that I learned that the way to get what I wanted was to get my way with other people. The ugly truth is I'm afraid to not plan out the steps that would most likely assure the outcome I want and I manipulate the chain of events (including people) to get there. That would be for big long term things and short term things. I'm learning not do to that. Awareness goes a long way in stopping that in its tracks because it is not the person I want to be and learning to let go of outcomes has helped a lot. I've also removed alcoholism which helps because frankly - I don't know how to be functional in the middle of such dysfunction.

On the flip side I do not know how to have a normal intimate relationship because my boundaries are either completely rigid (my xah really had no idea what I was feeling and thinking - ever - and not just because he was a self centered alcoholic but because I never shared it - I kept all that secret) or my boundaries were completely gone. What a mess!

I'm not sure how this relates to the OP but I'm sure that somehow it does. I'm more and more sure that it is all related to my childhood and the dysfunctional patterns there that I then polished and nurtured in early adulthood, that led me to being so stuck with my xah for so long. I was that crazy enabler and controller. It has to all be related somehow. BTW if you asked anyone they would not say I was controlling. I was well known as the wife that let him do his own thing. It was the other wives that everyone marked as controlling because they had boundaries. My dh went golfing, hunting, fishing, spent his money as he saw fit, pretty much did as he pleased. I did not nag or harrass him about anything. It was the details of life that I tried to control. It was like trying to wrap my arms around a tornado. I can see where that comes from. The enabling was off the charts. I'm struggling more with trying to figure that out.

Sorry I'm rambling on so in this thread. I feel like there is a lot swirling around in my head that is confusing me. I don't have time to concentrate on it today so I'm out of here
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Old 12-28-2010, 07:38 AM
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"It's taken a lot of work to discover all this and begin the process of 'unlearning' it."

Another big hurdle that I had to overcome or come to personally understand is where the Bible tells us that the husband is to be the "Head" and the father is to be the "Leader" of the family. I've been waiting for about 40 years for my DDH to become the "Head" and "Leader" of my family. I've come to accept the fact he will never become the "Head" or "Leader" of my family that I need. I've had to re-adjust my train of thinking about this to mean if the husband or father is "Christian" or of Biblical character than they should be the "Head" or "Leader" of the family. However, this doesn't apply with a man whose main focus is alcohol......NOT his wife or his children!
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Old 12-28-2010, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by wicked View Post
Thumper,
Get the damn book. I have it on my dining room table, I read the cover and sometimes the contents. Someday, I will do it. Its not like I dont have the time. I can make the time.


Beth
You know, I'm sitting here right now staring at that "Damed Book", it's just NOT sinking in.

I may have to pick it up and actually read it. Crap.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:02 AM
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We all have it and none of us are reading it! I've had it since we were going to do the book club. I wonder if it is either missing the mark or so on the mark we are all avoiding it
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Old 12-28-2010, 08:14 AM
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wow....doesnt the exah have just a wonderful gf?...she does everything for that man...JUST LIKE HIS MOTHER....
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