No success story from RAH's family here?

Old 12-25-2010, 07:38 PM
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No success story from RAH's family here?

Merry Christmas to all!

Long time no write here though. Laterly I often play "go" the Japanese board game on line and not so much update here. I am doing well in my recovery.

There are four groups of people. Alkies and their family. Recovering A and their family.
In SR, we have many recovering alikes and the families of (still drinking) alikes here. We do not many (still drinking) alkies and RA's family here. Right?
Then the success stories we hear from this site are often from RA or (still drinking) A's family. We do not have many success story from RA's family here. Then we do not have much infromations here from success story from the family with recovering alikies.

I often think this bias here. I think there is still a chance to live a recovering alcoholic with his family successfully.
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Old 12-25-2010, 07:43 PM
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I think so too Ninja and I know of some that have.

And a Merry Christmas to you!
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Old 12-26-2010, 10:19 AM
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My husband has been in recovery for 16 months. He did a three month stint in residential rehab, and has been out almost exactly one year. He does not live at home, which is my choice.

I had great hope when he came out of rehab that the man I married 18 years ago would re-emerge over time. What I realize now is that the man I married 18 years ago was already an alcoholic, so that the man I fell in love with was a mixture of fact and fiction (alcohol). So now I don't know who he is or will be. All I can say is that he is a nice guy, and helpful. But he is no partner.

My husband has not contributed a dime to support our family in over four years, even though he has been sober (as best I can tell) for 16 months. He was previously a 6 figure a year executive, now he works part-time, enough to pay his rent and gas during most months. He does do some chores around the house. He is pleasant - but he was pleasant when he drank, so there's no change there. He communicates a little better - usually less withdrawn than he was when he was drinking. But he still does not keep all of his promises. For instance, he promised on Sunday that he would not take our son from our house without telling me, but on Tuesday he did just that. Our son is 16, so it isn't like kidnapping, but he clearly broke a very new promise. He has no explanation. Who knows, maybe he is drinking again, maybe he is passive aggressive and defied me. What I know for sure is that I can't count on what he tells me. I accept that he may be drinking but I don't focus on it. What I care about is whether I can be happy in the relationship.

We've been going to a therapist for a year, but the last time we went she suggested we "take some time to think about things", meaning we aren't making any progress, so why waste our time. In addition, my husband has been in therapy for over a year, as well as AA. I went to Al Anon for awhile, but not much lately. I also did a stint in individual therapy but got tired of listening to myself whine.

So what I've learned is that recovery doesn't mean that everything will work out. Different people progress at different rates. People may not become who you think they will be.

As for me, I'm much better than I was a year ago. I am learning to focus more on me and less on him. I cannot change him. I now believe it is ok to want what I want. However, I am still grieving for the loss of my dream. I don't see sticking it out much longer, as it is time for me to accept that what is, is. For me, not keeping promises about our son is deal breaker.

Should be an interesting 2011!
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Old 12-26-2010, 10:34 AM
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I often think this bias here. I think there is still a chance to live a recovering alcoholic with his family successfully.
Well, I am confused, are you living happily with your family ninja, as a recovering alcoholic? I am sure it can be done, but I don't think it is very often, that is my experience.
If it is working for you, then please explain how it is working.
Usually, the people who come here want there active alcoholic to recover.
I think you came to the hardware store for some bread.

Beth

Unmarried recovering alcoholic divorced from an active alcoholic/crack addict for over 10 years.
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Old 12-26-2010, 11:15 AM
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Success in recovery is difficult to measure

As in everything, life for me, is a "process." Many of us here deal with various forms of addiction as a loved one of an alcoholic/addict or as an alcoholic/addict (and I think most people here are very "honest" and "genuine" about it). I have seen some "successful" recovering A families over the years (lots of addiction in my family & my husband's). I personally would avoid using "recovered." I don't know if any human being on this planet is "recovered" from anything. (Our world the way it is is one filled with "addictions" --both loosely & clinically speaking.) As human beings, we are (or have the potential to be) always growing, healing, recovering, developing. . . Success looks different (and means different things) to different people. Some claim they are "successful" but don't seem successful to me. Others of you may see me as not successful in my own recovery. I see non-alcoholic families who could use various "emotional recovery" even if they aren't dealing with effects of addiction (be it substances or behavioral). My parents have been married for over 50 years. My father has been sober most of my life (with maybe three or four relapses total). My parents believe they are "successfullly" recovered (although they'd never use those terms because one does not need to recover if one never really had a problem). My father's last relapse was 25 years ago. My parents love each other very much and I do believe truly did their best to raise my sibling & I the best they could, even though things were emotionally rough (and I spent years being angry & resentful). They see themselves as "successful" and others often see them as "successful." In fact, when my father went to an AA meeting "in support of my husband's recovery" several months ago for the first time in his life, a drug counselor who was in attendance heard my father's story and said, "Well, you probably aren't really an alcoholic." (My dad is pretty proud he kicked drinking without any program or anything & sort of looks down on AA as a place where "weak" people go. He never says that, but I sort of feel that from his comments here and there). I would not consider my parents' emotionally sober. But. . . I am learning to accept & appreciate how they feel about themselves. If they feel they are "successful," then perhaps I need to honor that.

In my case, I would like to see "healing" and "recovery" as lifelong. As long as I am working on healing, I think that puts me in the "success" camp. Do I fail along the way? (yep, sure do!). . . but I pick myself back up and ask to be guided by the Universe/my Higher Powers to keep working on myself. My husband is *only* 9 and a half months sober (& in recovery). However, I think that's amazing. Will he relapse? I don't know. I hope he doesn't. First, I try really hard "not to go there." (But as you can see, I do. . . my own madness at work!). If he ever does, at least I will now know that my formerly very *active* alcoholic husband is capable not only of abstinence from alcohol but capable of working a recovery program. That is a gift!

For me, it is very liberating to accept that life is not so much about "happily ever after." There are mountains to climb, rivers to cross, oceans to swim, storms to weather, flowers to smell & pick, and so on. I want to live the best life I can and work on being a better person (whatever that means). That's success, to me! Even with all of my shortcomings, mistakes, insanity, and failures, I think I am a success! Or at the least, I am striving to be an *emotionally successful* person, mother, daughter, sister, wife, friend, family member, colleague. . . (I have achieved in my professional life).

Yes, you might see a built-in bias of those who come to this site. Some of us post. Some never post, just read and lurk. Others are active and then become inactive. It's probably tough to get a full picture of "recovered/recovering" people just from this forum, assuming you've read every single post, analyzed it, interpreted your analysis and followed each person over time, etc. . . Everyone here is *potentially successful.*

All I will say is that I learn so much from very wise people here whom I would consider very successful in their recovery.
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Old 12-26-2010, 11:49 AM
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I think, ninja,

that even though there are those who have fully recovered their releationships
after alcoholism

they are far too few and far between

to constitute a large contribution group here at SR.

I agree that it's a process...
and different posters
are at different stages
in their own process.

It may well appear
that there's a bias
that makes it look like people here
advise others to leave the relationship...

but I think what may not be coming through
(what's getting lost in the translation)

is the simple truth
that unless WE get healthy...
nothing else will be.

And more often that not -
we have to become healthy...
without the drama.

And that takes a period
of solitude.

The other factor is -
once people work things out -
few keep returning to SR for support.

So they may be 'out there' all better and living the dream -
but we can't know because they're not here talking about it.


I'm re-developing a relationship with my sons
that was cut off for fifteen years.

I call that a success story.

It's an ongoing thing, however.
And it's a mine field of triggers
that we have to take apart
one at a time.

I hope that perspective helps.

For myself
I can say without hesitation
that I would never advise a woman
to stay in a relationship
in which she is in danger.
Or in which she is in possible danger
without pointing the potentiality out for her.

That's not going to change.

As for the ones
who keep going back
and keep going back

sometimes I can take it
and sometimes I can't.

For me, the only thing I'm pre-judging
is MY capacity to ride it out.

ANyway, I hope something in here helps!
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Old 12-26-2010, 12:28 PM
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When I first started coming here I thought there was some type of bias. Now I believe that it is very difficult for a marriage to survive alcoholism, even when recovery has begun in earnest. Not impossible, but difficult. Perhaps if the alcoholic gets sober early enough, the odds are better.

The reality is, marriage take work, even without addiction. There are certainly marriages which not only survive alcoholism but get stronger in recovery. I know one couple who fit this description.
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:33 PM
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I was speaking with my A's daughter today, about my A and some of the issues that have developed over time with him and relationships, and had a moment of clarity regarding my situation...

While in a relationship with an A, the alcohol is usually the main problem at the time when it is happening, but the alcohol rarely comes by itself, and is actually usually caused by something else. Since alcoholism is a genetic disease, which means that a person could be an alcoholic without ever having taken a single sip (and hence never know - like a bipolar person who never hits a time in their life stressful enough to flip the switch and turn the bipolar disease "on"), there is something that makes the drinking happen and turns the alcoholic into a drunk.

In my A's case, he can't stand the world at large, is insecure in relationships (the closer he feels to someone the more he has to monopolize their time), he internalizes things that weren't meant to be personal, and he has difficulty being close to more than one person at a time (which means that single person is getting 100% of his attention, and expected to give 100% of theirs back).

If he can't work through these problems, he cannot have a healthy relationship with anyone, and so in reality then yes, the relationship is doomed to failure and I cannot be a part of it. If he's willing to work through it, I am willing to work through it with him.

...I just realized it sounds like I'm saying he's 100% to blame - I'm not perfect either. I wouldn't have stayed this long before throwing him out (he's in inpatient rehab right now, first time ever) if I also didn't have emotional baggage to carry around. Some of it I brought with me and some of it he trained me, and all of it I need to work through before I can have a healthy relationship with anyone, as well.

So in short, there's a lot of things going on in a relationship, because while alcohol is the most obvious problem it's not the underlying one (although it is the one that needs to be fixed first). Without fixing both people IN the relationship so that they are whole again... it's hard to have a fulfilling relationship with partial people who are not confident in their own individuality.
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Old 12-26-2010, 02:18 PM
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In the al-anon group I went to there were husbands/wives/parents of RAs who had been in each others lives a long time and were happy. I'm not sure what the definition of a "successful" relationship is? but they seemed from the limited information I had to fit that. There were otehrs who still seemed to have relationships that caused them great pain, despite no alcohol being present. I only saw what they chose to share so I have no real idea, and no personal experience of a RA relationship myself.

nothing is certain in any relationship; neither doomed to failure nor set for life. We can only do our best to be the best person we are and trust that whether it works out or not, we will be ok.

Happy christmas!
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Old 12-26-2010, 02:19 PM
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I agree with StarCat. Once my husband quit drinking, it became obvious that he is one messed up guy. Many of his insecurities were masked by the false confidence he got from alcohol until the alcohol really started kicking his you-know-what. Emotionally, he is about 15 years old, although he is in his 50s.
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Old 12-26-2010, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wicked View Post
Well, I am confused, are you living happily with your family ninja, as a recovering alcoholic? I am sure it can be done, but I don't think it is very often, that is my experience.
If it is working for you, then please explain how it is working.
Usually, the people who come here want there active alcoholic to recover.
I think you came to the hardware store for some bread.

Beth

Unmarried recovering alcoholic divorced from an active alcoholic/crack addict for over 10 years.
Hi Wicked,
I wonder what Ninja meant also... I wanted to reply to your response. I thought that once both my husband and I got sober that things would be better. I am finding quite the opposite. I don't know who the heck he is. All I know is that I can't stand being around him. This is one case where the relationship will NOT work out after sobriety.
Just wanted to put my 2 cents in. thanx for listening
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Old 12-26-2010, 04:08 PM
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I don't post here so much because I find it very hard to not make my posts sound very "smug." My husband is doing great, our marriage is fantastic, things went back to (better than) normal very quickly once he stopped drinking. It's not perfect, we've had other setbacks and we are still working out day to day practicalities in a way that normal couples don't have to, but we are getting there.

Also, I don't want to jinx things by being too positive. We've had the best Xmas in years and a significant part of me is just waiting for the other shoe to drop. And if/when this new way of us being becomes normal I suspect I'll stop coming on to this site. I already log-in much less than I used to and in time I probably won't at all, because I want to move on, completely.
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Old 12-26-2010, 04:22 PM
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Kitty -

Exactly my point.

Once it's well - there's few who would want to keep coming back.
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Old 12-26-2010, 04:30 PM
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I would expect to see a bias here. I think most people will come to a website like this and become active in it because they need support. People who are in happy, successful relationships with recovering alcoholics have less reason to come here. There's less to be gained for talking about what is working.
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:19 PM
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Hi Isaiah,
I think it's sad that some are already planning on not returning. I think that if I am fortunate enough (which I most likely won't be) to have a "normal" life, I would love to share with others what worked for me. I am so grateful for all of you and it would be a shame to not return the love.
Just my opinion
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Old 12-27-2010, 09:28 AM
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Happy to see you here Ninja, I have gotten a lot out of your posts in the past, and wondered how you were doing.

My ex rabf is sober 11 months, working hard on his recovery, knows it is a lifelong process. We are not together now, but I am hopeful for the future. I am realistic as well.

Most of all, thanks to Al Anon and SR, I know that I will be happy no matter what. It is a choice I have made. Life is not always perfect, I cannot make it so, I can only take care of me, and this knowledge has freed me.

Best to you, Stay hopeful.
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Old 12-27-2010, 10:36 AM
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Hi Ninja,

There is bias here. There is bias anywhere people share an opinion. That said, you will also find here experience, strength, and hope. You can live with an alcoholic. People do it all the time. I'm doing it right now. It's one thing to live with one, it's another thing to be able to be happy doing so. Can you be happy doing so? If so, great. If not, not. Good luck.
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Old 12-27-2010, 11:09 AM
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We're here to share our expierence, strength, & hope.
The most important thing that I've learned over the past year is that I'm the one with the problem. I'm the one willing to do something about it. I have no control over what my AW does, or doesn't do. It's not up to me to fix her, It's up to me to fix me.
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Old 12-27-2010, 11:43 AM
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SR gave me two substantial gifts when it comes to success stories.

1. I can define success for myself. When I first came here my success was based solely on if I gave someone else their happy ending or not.

2. Success is the process, not the ending. I was focused on endings and had no process. I was running in quicksand. SR helped me realize that I had to pay attention to the process in order to get out of the quicksand.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:29 PM
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There is a bias because alcoholism is the core issue that brings many people here but I know there are successful couples who have moved passed some pretty horrible stuff with relation to alcohol.

I think it depends upon if there are other issues in ADDITION to the alcoholism that predict outcome (success or not that is). (ie. Mental health issues).

But it gets back to how you define 'success'. I grew up in a very volatile household where there was no alcoholism, just uncontrolled rage from a father. Hardly a recipe for a successful marriage but my parents have been together for 50 years. Some would see that as a 'success', but there was a path of destruction and tears to get there.

Not a success in my book frankly.

I think what makes a successful relationship is very subjective. I tend towards optimism and giving people a fair chance though and for any relationship, predicting a successful outcome isn't always obvious.
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