NeverLetGo23

How do you feel about 'new' friends concerning your child? If your child comes home, and tells you about someone great they met, or someone that influences them to do good, how do you approach that topic? Do you think these people are out to get something...or maybe take advantage of the situation? First instinct wise anyway...

A few months ago, I met a friend. We had chemistry together, and we hit it off pretty fast. Started spending a lot of time together and it was obvious she had a rough past. Come to find out, she used to be a heavy Meth user and did a year for it. I was working full time and going to school full time, so our time slowly decreased and we kind of had a little falling out. We were still close though. Well, she fell back on her habit about 3 months ago and ended up in jail. I've been keeping in touch with her and doing my best to support her, but her father... can not stand me. We've never had a conversation, because he never wanted me around him. I'm going to see her today in jail, and when he found out, he refused to join and decided to stay home. This, hurts her to no end, and it guilt trips the hell out of me, because I don't want to be a reason to get in between a loving father and daughter.

I have no doubt that she's had plenty of men in her life use and abuse her, but I haven't given him any reason to believe so. The first visit she had, actually, me and her father went together, and all I did was talk to her about the bible, and how she needed to recreate her foundation from the ground up. He seemed really happy to see his baby girl laughing so much , but out of nowhere, he wants me out of the picture, and has been doing everything he can to convince her to get rid of me.

So..I can see points of jealousy, fear, prejudice etc. Just wanted to know anyone's take on this situation or any words of advice. Any similar situations you might be able to shine some light on for me? Just trying to figure out the best way to approach this, for HER sake.

Chino

Have you asked him? Are you getting your info from someone who's brain is still chemically imbalanced? It could be something as simple as him wanting one on one time with his daughter.

NeverLetGo23

I try to talk to him, and he won't return my messages. The unfortunate thing about this situation, is she has a very ....psychotic 'best' friend who is quite jealous. She may be the X-Factor. Her father is a well-rounded person, and a "Good' Father. Very loving and providing. If he wanted time with his recovering daughter PERIOD, I would think he would not pass the opportunity to see her. We don't even have to be in the same room, we can take turns talking to her. He's just trying to make a point...which is unfair, considering it would seem he's using his daughter being in jail as leverage.

YouWillBe

A parent's heart is so easily broken and anybody coming into a troubled child's live is suspect. The saying "No one will ever be good enough for MY daughter" is no doubt rattling around in his brain. Add to the fact that she's attracted people to her who are up-to-no-good for probably several years, doesn't help. It definitely brings out the Mama bear - and in dad's too!

I know that I'm terribly suspicious of anybody in my daughter's live that wasn't in it prior to her troubles. He probably wonders what your agenda is towards her - why you would want to 'take on' such a project since he knows first hand what a life-changer it can be.

The best way to get on his good side would to be the most up-right person you know how to be. And give him LOTS of space. Writing to her in encouraging ways without being too personal, being completely supportive without being over-bearing or manipulative, respecting HIS values and time - remembering that his life and heart are completely devoted to her and he only wants the best for his child and her recovery - will go a long way in gaining his respect.

NeverLetGo23

Yea, I agree with most of your last paragraph. I tend to do my best to follow that pattern. I went to see her, and she blew up with happiness. We talked about God most of the time, she is still having issues accepting the time she's going to be doing. I talked to her about not inviting me anymore, because of all the problems its causing. She thinks that's for the best too, although I'm sure I'll see her at least once a month. We write each other a lot, I told her she spends more time writing to me, than she does visiting them, so it's best she use that personal time towards them.

I wasn't sure about how much space to give him, although I was leaning towards staying back. I don't have much influence on her besides the letters I write her. She looks up to me tremendously though. Very easily swayed by my words and opinion. I don't think she's ever experienced a male figure in her life who didn't abuse her though, outside her family of course, so my nature is relatively new to her. She's not sure what to do with me sometimes, and it frustrates the heck out of her. I just try to be patient and let her sort it out herself. With fervent prayer of course.


I'm going to do my best not to visit anymore. I gave her my word I was going, so I didn't want to break it. She gets two visits a week. One is reserved for her mother and sister. The other for her dad and friend.

She's in jail so There isn't much enabling possible.

cece1960

Hi NeverLetGo,
Welcome to SR, I'm glad you've joined us.
I can only give you my take on things, from a mom (of an addict) perspective.

After reading your post, a few things jumped out at me (red flags). The amount of times you mention how swayed she is by you and your words, the many times you told her what was good for her, and the time frame you speak of in regards to when the two of you met and when she relapsed.

Us moms and dads can get exhausted by the number of times our addicts have promised the world, reinvented themselves for what suited the moment, and lied through their teeth enough to get our hopes up, only to have them soon smashed.

Its possible that dad has had enough of the games, and just wants to spend some time seeing his daughter while not under the influence.

Does she pray when you're not there? Does her Dad hold the same beliefs as you? Is the conversation controlled by your vision of what recovery (and a good life) is?

I'm not criticizing your beliefs or doubting that you are a good man with good intentions, but as I said, we parents can get real tired at times, and just don't have it in us for another round of wondering who the "new me" is this time.

In other words, it may have little to do with you.
JMO
(((Hugs)))

Kindeyes

It's really hard to say what may be going through her father's head. Who knows....maybe you remind him of someone he didn't like 20 years ago.

My dear daughter (no drug or alcohol problems) chose to date a guy who had a "past". Drugs, alcohol, jail, felony record, bad credit, no driver's license, no job.....need I go on.

I held him in reserve for a very long time.....it's not that I didn't like him but I thought that she could do so much better. They've been together now for two years. He has grown on me. He treats my daughter very well. She is the breadwinner and they are ok with that.....so why shouldn't I be? He takes care of the homefront (and does a great job).

I guess what I'm trying to say is........perhaps he'll come around.......but it probably won't be on your schedule or hers.....it will be in his own time.

gentle hugs

litehorse

welcome neverletgo23 - i'm glad you found this place - you will find support, strength and plenty of wisdom here - it sounds you really want what is best for your friend but please read and learn as much as you can because it is so easy to fall into codependent behaviors like "fixing" people and arranging someone else's life - the hardest thing i had to accept as a mother of an AS is that the things i did to "help" him were many times harmful because it kept him from feeling the consequences of his addiction -

sojourner

NeverLetGo: "She's in jail, there isn't much enabling possible."

Welcome to SR and kudos to you for being open for opinions, suggestion, ESH. I urge you to keep reading, here and in books, other sites, etc. Consider your screen name - is that a reference to your relationship with this young lady? And a great deal of enabling can happen while she is in jail - especially in the realm of emotions and creating a relationship where the person in jail is "Snow White" and the unjailed person is the "Knight In Shining Armor" come to the rescue so that all can live happily ever after.

You are in a very powerful place right now with this young lady, and it can be pretty heady to have somebody else hovering on your every word. What kind of emotional place would you have to be in to hover on somebody's every word like that?

Just food for thought here to consider.

Keep coming back. If this relationship with this young lady deepens as she continues into recovery, you are going to need support in learning the best ways to help her (and yourself) - and the best place to do that is a place like this and, VERY IMPORTANT, face-to-face 12-step meetings (Alanon or Naranon).

NeverLetGo23

First off, thank all of you for your time and responses.

This is one I would think he matches up with the most. I can understand the red flags, but they are nothing more than bible studies. I'll let her ask a question, and some I answer, some I don't. It frustrates her, but some she has to find on her own. We are very close, and before she fell back, were headed towards the courting. I could understand her father having enough of the promises and games, but it would seem it's an inherit trait, because now he seems to be playing the games. My vision of recovery is the same in all aspects, and it has never failed me. The Cross.


Kindeyes, I have no doubt he wants better for her. As far as her being an ex-meth head sitting in jail, You would think it couldn't get much better than what I'm offering. I have a bad past, but he knows nothing of it. It all consisted of me as a child though and led to my drop out. I moved, went back to school, got my diploma, not my GED. And am now struggling with college bills. I'm hoping to enlist in feb. to help with that. God is my priority in all matters, he brought me out of the grave I dug.


Litehorse, I agree with the 'help can be bad' type of thing. Certain options are enabling, I completely understand that. I study and have concepts of the co-dependent theory, but I don't believe in it as gospel the way some around here do. It might be exactly what someone needs, but it is NOT universal. Not even close.



sojourner, my screen name is reference to my faith. As far as the disney comparisons, I'm more like the annoying knight riding on a donkey. I don't allow her to speak negative, or down on herself or the situation, otherwise our time cease to exist. I've seen her 3 times. I walked out on the second because she wasn't complying. I won't for one moment entertain bull crap. A month and a half later, I had my 3rd visit yesterday. I allow her to vent, I encourage it, but I don't like degrading or 'woe is me' spirits at all and don't deal with them.
What kind of place would I have to be to heed one's word? The same place I am now, in search of help.

I was looking into Alanon and Naranon. I'm not sold on the entire concept just yet, if ever. My faith and understanding of God's word comes before Man's word. And right now, they arn't consistent with each other. Even if I don't buy into the entire concept, I'm still eager to learn as much as possible from such venues.


I thank you all for your opinions and view. They are encouraging and enlightening.

I grasp the "Con-Artist' concept quite well. I do have a checkered past from my young age, and It involved me working these con-artist to get paid. Her father refuses to talk to me, and has informed our middle man(not my inmate) that he doesn't see why I would want to talk to him.

Seeing this, I can only take it as what she tells me about her father, is true. He hasn't given me any reason not to believe her. And my views on him, are solely on experience. They are a wealthy family, I'm far from it. When I went to their house, I was usually on the porch, because he didn't want me inside. He, from what I take, is quite racist, but only when it comes to his baby girl. And to prove that... He has in his will..that her and her sisters 'offspring' will inherit nothing if it's not 100 % of caucasian decent..It's well known information among her closer friends. Not something made up in her head, rest assured. He takes pride in his family tradition and bloodline. Has a mantel for it..

Anyway, I figured he would have seen through that, seeing as... I don't have anything to gain from the situation, and do my best to let them know it's just a friendship thing. Guess not. I Assume he's scared she'll run away with me if given the chance though, if I do manage to stick around.

Either way, thank you for your input.

Chino

I love the story of the Prodigal Son. Instead of trying to control his youngest son (a codie trait), the father let him go. The oldest son grudgingly, resentfully, yet willfully gave up his own desires (another codie trait), then blamed his dad for it.

At different times in my life I've been both sons. Now I do my best to emulate the father

Tiredofdrugs

YouWillBe: I had to laugh when I read the "You aren't good enough"! I was told that very same thing when I was 15 years old. I'm 50 now. Her son was 17 when she told me this. BUT! Thirty-two years later! We were reunited and now have been together for almost five years. One of those being married. His mom still feels the same way and wants me out of her fifty-two year olds son's life. Mom is Italian and my husband is Italian/Spainard. I'm all white! I'm his third wife and he's my fourth husband. We are like teenagers that have each other back again. We have a strong bond and love each other unconditionally!

With this said! We have very little contact with his mom and even less from his twenty year old daughter that feels the same as his mother.

Due to the illegal problems going on around the world right now! There is a lot of dislike and hatred out there among everyone. My husband gets dirty looks all the time, since he looks more Spainard than Italian. I told him I was going to get a stamp that says; "I'm an Italian" and stamp his forhead with it! LOL

My father would also disown me if I were to end up with an African man. My younger sister of 47 has a mexican man living with her now. The whole family is uneasy about it. He's a wonderful person and very nice. But he was born in Mexico and is very secretive in many ways and many things.

Regardless of how much or how little money daddy has. It sounds like he doesn't want his daughter to co-mingle with anyone but her own race. My husband's mother and step-dad are filthy rich! Mom thinks I'm out for her money, like his two ex-wifes. Whatever! I'm a 100% disabled veteran, retired with 22 years in the Army! I bring in enough money to support both of us. And considering he's been laid off for almost two years, it's a damn good thing.

My husband's daughter is married and has a one year old son. We've not met either one of them. His daughter bad mouths me to his mom and anyone that will listen. They are basically non-exsistent in our lives. Is this girl willing to live this kind of life, by choosing to have you in her life?

You say this is only a friendship? You say you preach the word of God to her? You said you got up during one visit when she wasn't complying. There is a lot of what you are saying and not saying that screams; "break off this relationship"! When a person is in jail, they will hold onto anything they can from the outside world. You are also going into the military. Your free time is going to be extremely limited for quite some time as well.

If yawl were meant to be friends or whatever, then later down the road, it will happen.

BTW: What is yawls ages?

TOD

sojourner

NeverLetGo: Well, I guess you can tell by my post that I'm seeing some red flags with this whole thing.

To answer your original question, ANYBODY that my active addict son meets has one role to fulfill - that of being an enabler (albeit naively) to his drug use and the lifestyle to which he is accustomed. And I can see it happening with the unsuspecting friend (or relative or somebody from church or somebody from the professional community). I can sometimes say my piece about it (esp if it is a relative), but other than that all i can do is stand back and watch it happen again. And I see my son's addiction continue while he slides deeper into that pit. So I think I know what her dad is thinking because, if he is like me, he has seen this same thing happen over and over again.

I'm a very strong Christian, as it seems you are. In my experience with being the relative of alcoholics and/or drugs addicts from very early in my life, I have seen that the worst enablers are the naive religious people because they think they are on some mission from God and so see the "suffering" on their part as something to be endured, having some kind of positive impact not only on the addict but also on their own faith life. They just could not be more wrong or more harmful to the addict or to themselves.

Hope that helps. Sorry about mis-interpreting your screen name.

cece1960

While admirable, do you know what her vision of recovery is?

Kindeyes

One of the beautiful things about Alanon and Naranon is that the programs do not in any way claim to be the word of God. They are spiritual based programs but are not affiliated with any specific religion. I don't always agree with everything that people at the meetings say but it's not my job to argue with them or tell them that their way is wrong and mine is right. I try to keep my mind and my heart open. Every person in my Naranon Family Group is hurting because of the drug use of someone they love very much. I feel great compassion for each one of them and they are kind enough to share their stories with me so that I can learn from their experiences and explore myself (my behaviors and my motivations). I hope that I offer them as much strength and hope as they give me.

I take what I need and leave the rest.

gentle hugs

NeverLetGo23

I'm 24, She is 22. Is she willing to live the life of neglect towards her family due to me? Doubtful. I don't preach, I share. I don't tell people right or wrong, I let them figure it out on their own, if I can help it. I'm not sure what you mean by "BREAK OFF THIS RELATIONSHIP" could you elaborate for me please? I don't mind my free time be exhausted. Part of my christian walk is carrying my cross.

Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. - Luke 9:23

I'm not losing anything to offer love. Not losing anything at all. My strength doesn't come from me, but my Father in Heaven. It can't run dry.

Do not grieve, for the joy of the LORD is your strength. Nehemiah 8:10.

I understand your viewpoint and agree with it in most cases, context withstanding. I am on a mission from God. However, she isn't special in that regards. I share my love and wisdom with anyone willing. Whether she cares about me or not, is irrelevant. I'm not there for me. If it fails, it fails, just like thousands of other ventures in my life. I won't change who I am because of one case. I think that would show a great weakness in foundation. One thing any Christian should know, is we're meant to be fishermen, and harvesters. We plant seeds. We don't have to be around for that seed to sprout, but we just play our part. Those seeds of wisdom, love, and purpose are all being planted, whether or not I get the "due respect' for it. Whether or not someone else enjoys the fruit of the work. I'm just doing what I can when I can. Being a Christian period, is harmful to yourself.

“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first." - John 15:18
"Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings."- 1 Peter 5:8-9.
They were put to death by stoning; they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— Hebrews 11:37

Doesn't sound like a walk in the park...

CeCe, She claims she knows she wouldn't make it if she stepped back onto the streets today. At the same time she believes she knows everything to know about the recovery process. She doesn't believe the system can teach her anything new. I don't think she has much of a concept of a recovery process right now.

Kindeyes, Like I said. I'm open to learning as much as possible. I don't like the concepts of being completely helpless that some of these programs seem to preach. My life is meaningless if i were to ever believe something as atrocious as this. I understand some people have lost their entire life trying to save someone, and got nothing in return. I get that. I also get the fact that there shouldn't be any regrets, if you went into the battle selflessly. If it was in selfish vain, then no matter what happens in the end, you won't be happy. I think some of these programs..run eerily similar to that of the walk of a drug addict, to be honest. Fight fire with fire I suppose.

Part of my walk...is the simple statement.. "I don't have control." With that in mind, I am linked to a God that has all control.

Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. - Phillipians 4:6

Thank you all for your words of advice and wisdom. I couldn't express how much they mean to me, and how relieving it is simply to talk about it. God Bless.

My willingness to stay in the picture can be attributed to a verse such as this:
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?-James 2:20.

cece1960

Well...good luck with that. Most of us here have found no luck in imposing our beliefs on our loved ones. In fact, most of us here have learned that the effort is useless.

I believe the big difference here is that you claim to have no expectation as to the outcome, and no regret should you have to walk away, while we are left feeling that we've lost part of our very being, having to "give up" on helping, saving or rescuing our addict.
So you see, we have little in common.

I must say though, and forgive me if I sound harsh, but if my daughter was in jail for reasons surrounding drug use, and a practical stranger entered the picture to teach her the error of her ways, and to save her, while implying that something is broken, or that she is less than one of Gods children, I'd be escorting you out the door myself. And I would probably refuse to visit if that person was scheduled at the same time.

NeverLetGo23

We do share little in common, because you believe in luck, and I believe in truth. I don't "IMPOSE." I already said, she asks questions, and I help guide her. No expectation? No. I have faith. No regret? If possible, yes. I am not perfect, and subject to feelings and emotion just like everyone else.
I've lost more people than I can count on my two hands due to the street life. Drugs being a majority.
Allowing situations I can't control, bring me down, only leaves opportunity for others around me to fall the same way. I will not quiver in the sight of my enemy. I will stand strong, and firm. I'll be what I have to be for those I love.
She was looking for help, I was offering. It wasn't me breaking down the door with my bible and proclaiming salvation to the nations. Less than one of God's children? Where did that even come from? Have you heard of the "Lost Sheep" parable?

Then Jesus told them this parable: “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. - Luke 15:3-7

If anything, God looks highly upon those with the most suffering.

You're very nature in this circumstance is the exact way he looks upon it, I have no doubt. However, its foundation lies within prejudice. I could just the same, look at the circumstance, and say you are not fit to be a parent, if that is where they ended up. Nor are you fit to love and guide them, because obviously you didn't work out. Now, that is how prejudice works, I'm not fearful of an others prejudice view, because I can see how ridiculous it would be If I applied those virtues.

I wouldn't be a "practical' stranger if he invited me in his house. We went to high school together, just hung out with different crowds. It's not like I'm from the moon.

The purpose of this thread, was for me to dive into experiences from others, such as yourself, to help calculate the best way to approach the situation without causing to much offense.

The one thing that makes it obvious I share little in common with such views is simple. They are ruled by fear. I am ruled by faith.

Thank you for your response. I appreciate it greatly.

Tiredofdrugs

NeverLetGo23:

I am a Christian foremost. Do I go to church? No. I do believe in Angels and God. I've been shown they are there, way to many times. My husband on the other hand can quote the bible and has read it from front to back. He doesn't go to church either. But we thank God every day for things that happen in our lives. Now with this said.

This girl you are sharing with has a father that doesn't want you involved in her life. I would wonder if she's playing your Godly good ways to counteract her father's love. I've met and encountered a good amount of "Bible Thumpers". They get so lost in the world of God and church, they forget how to live life. I'm not meaning anything negative by this, so PLEASE don't try to jump to conclusions. I also have an ex-brother-in-law that is so involved with a Catholic church group, it is almost like a cult. It's truly scary what they've changed him into.

This girl needs to come with terms on how she's going to live her life when she gets out of jail. Her father will more than likely suffocate her once she's out. He'll make sure she does as he wants. And he has the money to keep people he wants away from her, away from her.

You sound like a nice, caring person trying to save someone that has fallen by the wayside. What I mean by "BREAK OFF THIS RELATIONSHIP" is: Walk away. Let her know you haven't abandoned her. But for the sake of her father's concern with yawls visits, you feel it's best if you stay out of the picture for now.

What are you going to be feeling, if when she gets out of jail, she goes running to her drug pusher? How much time and effort are you willing to spend on helping her? She has to start the road to recovery on her own. Going to meetings, following the path of recovery. You'll be gone, due to joining the military. She's got to have another path to follow, because you aren't going to be there all the time.

I hope I've cleared some of this up for you. We all mean well and want to help others. But there are times our help isn't wanted. Her father has made this very clear.

TOD

NeverLetGo23

Awesome Post. Thank you for your response. You do seem to have experience most relevant to my situation and always appreciate your opinion on the matter.

I have no doubt her father will suffocate her, as he did the last time. She was taking 18 hours college classes, had AA meetings and Court meetings twice a week, community service, and a part time job she had to keep. No wonder..she relapsed..... I had to deal with all of her meetings and time restraints when we met. I openly accepted her schedule and her past without second thought.

I do agree with the whole finding her strength in something grounded format. This is one thing, I do stress. I emphasize the fact that she doesn't need me in anyway, it is simply one of life's little blessings on the side that makes the day more enjoyable. Nothing more, nothing less. We both acknowledge if I wasn't around, she could still "Make it' and be fine.

As far as they "walk away." I won't leave the picture. I think it's cowardly in all honesty. I would be more concerned with myself in that instance, which I know with what some people on this forum have lost, would always be the easiest choice, but for me, It's not an option, because I'm not being effected negatively enough to warrant it. I spend time with her in writing her, but that time just takes out of my internet time. Not much lost there. I may spend a few bucks on stamps and postage, but I spend a few bucks on fast food when I'm in a hurry.
I am stressed. I do admit that. It is a negative aspect I wish to be without, but if it wasn't this situation, another would arise. That's life.
Not to mention this entire situation has led me to this forum and several other venues, which have brought on plenty of understanding and wisdom is many ways. I'm easily more equipped and a better person simply for being led down this path of learning.

I suppose it's one of those... Is the cup half empty..or half full... deals.

I won't take any post offensively. I understand this is a touchy subject and everyone's situation is quite unique in various ways. I look forward to the information and opinions provided here. Thank You.

I also notice that there seems to be a stigma floating around towards Christianity a.k.a. "Bible Thumpers" around here. I can understand this as much as anything else. I can see it being a failed model of recovery for some.