Buffalo66

I have never had a healthy partner. I know this.
I have never had a healthy co parent.
I have a few couple/friends who seem to have it all figured out, and even they have issues.
Everyone has issues, but I am having a hard time knowing if what I am getting upset about is a valid thing, or not.
He is in recovery. two weeks out. He is struggling, but doing OK.

New Things:
--He is staying.Not running out at will, on a whim, as he pleases without warning or conference.
--He is sober. This is a big deal. obviously
---He is not messing with or fielding calls from other women. No sign of even wanting to or willingness to.
---He is not mean, and he is not abrupt or rude. He is also present after a conflict, for discussion, or whatever.

Things that are driving me nuts:
---He is not entirely taking part in everyday things. He is trying, but, he sleeps a lot, and he is going back to work soon, but there is an aura of vacancy there..maybe standard recovery shock?
---I have to make very clear that now it is his turn to do things, like put child to bed, or give bath. He does them, but I am a raw nerve and I am annoyed that I have to spell it out.

I dont know if I am being overly critical.
Many of the women I know that are in "healthy" marriages often complain of the same things, that the man assumes the woman does most of or the great majority of the caregiving.

I am just in a flurry of confusion over what is normal stuff, what is alkie stuff, what is to be expected.
I know the ideal is a perfectly fair and integrated dynamic, but who has that?

i feel like I am being the one with the problem right now...feeling all bitchy and pi**y all the time, getting annoyed a lot. He is here, he is doing his best.
----Why cant I relax into it!!!

Dangit!

Buffalo66

PS:
I waited and prayed for this. I said I would be there when he wanted to choose health. I cut him off, threw him out, and I said when he ws ready to be real and treat himself with love and respect that I would support that work.
I am taking care of me, I am working, painting, being creative. I am not all wrapped up. I just feel like I am trying to sabotage or something?!

Am I trying to preemptively strike?
Is my trust that f*ed up? It could be.

This has become more of a rant. I am sorry. Thanks for reading.

seekingcalm

My experience is that early recovery, even 1 year or so, is a really really difficult time, but especially the first few months are hell for the recovering alcoholic. One of the al anon meetings I went to, someone said it takes 2 years for the recovering alcoholic to become healthy again. I could not hear that at the time, but I understand better now.

And I know that after all we go thru when they are drinking, we think that when they finally stop drinking, we will get some relief. And in some ways we do. But in so many others, it gets even harder sometimes.

You need to do something for yourself, and posting here is a great thing to do for yourself.

I hate to say don't expect too much, but it really is realistic at this point.

Just take care of you, things will get better. One day at a time.

Sending good thoughts your way

seekingcalm

Of course your trust is gone...for good reason.

It will take a long time of continued sobriety, and honesty in all matters for you to fully trust again, and you have every right to take all the time you need in your own recovery. It is NOT all about them. Remember that.

transformyself

My first thought on this is that the only relief I feel EVER is when i focus on MYSELF. Like, completely throw myself into take care of me mode.

For the record-the only way I can pull that off is to physically stop myself from worrying and obsessing and refocus on doing what I need to do , right now in the moment, to make my life better.

Then, amazing things happen.

Freedom1990

The day after I got out of rehab, I walked all over town putting in applications for jobs. I did that until I got a job a week later.

There was no sleeping a lot. I was the single parent of an 8 year old child. I attended meetings, aftercare, and took care of all the mundane things like taking the trash out, cleaning house, etc.

I have a very bad habit of thinking people can read my mind on what I need. I struggled with that when my 22 year old was back home with me.

I finally learned to say things like "I'd appreciate it if you would clean out the litter boxes today," or "It would be great if you could wheel the dumpster to the curb for trash pickup."

Buffalo66

Freedom, I just read your post, then logged off and looked at my online horoscope. It is usually so right on, especially recently.

here is what it said,
"Capricorn, you hide your emotional needs from others. You need to be able to trust someone in order to share your feeling. They have to guess at your deepest secrets. Today you could save a lot of time in your love life if you just tell your partner what you want out of your relationship or even what you'd like to change about it. Talk about it. Your partner is listening."

I think he is listening, and I think I have a go-to reaction that I need to reassess.
My reaction is to assume that he will balk, get annoyed treat me like a b*tch for expecting something.

I guess I learned to breathe underwater and he may have begun to come up for air.

I need to do some work on myself...more work, I guess.

I also share the habit of not asking for things, and so I should start tryig to get back to myold self who just asks for things, healthy normal things. If he doesn't like it it's his stuff, after all.
I am so used to being bullied, I dont know how to respond to interactive communication.
Thanks!

Freedom1990

I think it's like you're still shell-shocked from him being active in alcoholism, you know?

I honestly don't know where I learned that damnable not just coming out and asking for things.

Like you, I would get aggravated as crap that my 22 year old didn't automatically do those things.

I'd finally blow, and she would say, "All you have to do is ask me, Mom."

Hang in there, dear!

TakingCharge999

I made a list of chores that needed to be taken care of and asked the guy "choose your half"

trapeze

Buff, I could have written your post. My AH is 14 months in recovery. I am so frustrated I could just scream. Not that he hasn't improved, but it is so freaking slow I don't know if I can wait it out. The ambivalence I feel is huge.

Sometimes I just don't think he has room for me in his life, but he doesn't want me to go. We haven't lived together since he went to rehab, and I'm very glad of that. But I still feel invisible.

He's never rude. He's not awful. He's just not really present in our relationship. We went to a therapist together last week and she told him that he has to take a few minutes every day and be a husband, not just a recovering alcoholic. I don't know if he can do it quickly enough for me. I am really tired of it. Recovery has not been that much better than active alcoholism. There. I said it.

Good luck.

Babyblue

He is doing his best but that is different then co-parenting. His best right now may be pretty limited so it is about having patience, teaching him good parenting skills and not expecting too much.

In co-parenting, you both take on the tasks, usually don't have to ask and know that you can fall back on the other person to pick up the slack on days you aren't feeling well, are tired, etc. You work off of one another's strengths as co-parents. Maybe one parent is better at getting the kids ready for bed while the other is better at making sure homework is done, etc.

In your situation though, maybe assuming he can co-parent at this point in his recovery is too early. He has to be good at taking care of himself first and since he is so early on in recovery, that is something he is re-learning.

Hard position for you to be in because you want to support him but like I tell my son's dad 'sh** has to get done!' even on days when I don't feel so great. Mom's tend to pick up the slack but I know my resentments built up over time. Oh and my son's dad isn't even an alcoholic. Still required lots of patience on my part. He is a great dad now but I had to not expect perfection and I praised him lots when he did things the right way.

I can only imagine how hard the task is with a parent who is beginning recovery.
p.s. the list is a great idea btw, try that for starters to keep him at least in the direction you want

coyote21

I heard it said somewhere early in my recovery, if you walk 10 miles into the woods, it takes AT LEAST 10 miles to walk out. And that's assuming you are actually going the right way the whole time.

I've seen MANY people on this board express the exact same feelings, that sober isn't much better than active. It make sense though, by the time the alcoholic gets into recovery lots of spouses are just about "done". I think a strong program of our own might be of some help.

When my wife was in court ordered rehab, it was clear to me that she wasn't "getting it". For 2 years I thought that rehab would be the magic end all, cure all of all our problems. I've since learned that stopping drinking doesn't cure all the relationship problems.

When I was trying to decide whether I had enough left to try and stay it out, I began to think about the 10 mile forest analogy. Man it took us 10 YEARS to get our marriage as effed up as it was, I was NOT interested in throwing 10 more years of my one and only life at it.

I had to admit defeat. It was not a decision I made lightly, and I was plenty conflicted. But to my axw's credit, she never missed a chance to show me I had made the right decision. Bless her heart!

I wish I had some sage wisdom to share.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

Buffalo66

Well...He just up and wen to a meeting. I thought he was having trouble tonight, maybe for the first time...He spent the afternoon playing chess in a coffeeshop with an old friend. Came home a little antsy, sighing a lot. I thought, hmm..he really seems restless.
I was hoping he would plan to go to ameeting, and he just stood up and said he was going to a meeting(our car situation has been resolved).

I know I am supposed to be more detached than to care this much, but I just hope he picked a good one, and maybe talks to someone afterwards.

Learn2Live

Buffalo, are YOU working a program?

Buffalo66

I am in Alanon, and have a sponsor, but since my sons illness its been more difficult to make meetings regularly.
I have been working the steps. It is slow going.

acdirito

People that are in relationships with alcoholics want nothing more than our love ones to stop drinking. However, even when our alcoholic stops drinking our relationships will still have its ups and downs, and its good times and its bad times. Those are ups and downs that everyone experiences and should be expected in any relationship. The alcoholic needs and should want to be responsible for all aspects of their recovery, whether it is through a 12-step program or a professional substance abuse counselor. Otherwise their growth in recovery could be stunted with only one piece of the pie in check: being physically clean and sober.

The alcoholic that only works on the physical clean and sober aspect of their recovery is described as a "dry drunk" . The phrase "dry drunk" has two significant words for the alcoholic. "Dry" refers to the abstinence from drinking, whereas "drunk" signifies a deeply pathological condition resulting from the use of alcohol in the past. Taken together these words suggest intoxication without alcohol. Since intoxication comes from the Greek word for poison, "dry drunk" implies a state of mind and a mode of behavior that are poisonous to the alcoholic's well being.

The Dry Drunk is a condition far more serious than the highs and lows of our day-to-day existence. Persons experiencing a full-blown DRY DRUNK are, for that period, removed from the world of sobriety; they fail, for whatever reason, to accept the necessary conditions for sober living. Their mental and emotional homes are chaotic, their approach to everyday living is unrealistic, and their behavior, both verbal and physical, is
unacceptable.

The symptoms of a dry drunk shows up as:

1. Grandiosity, put very simply, is an exaggeration of one's own importance. This can be demonstrated either in terms of one's strengths or weaknesses. In either case it is blatantly self- seeking or self-serving, putting oneself at the center of attention, from the "big me" who has ask the answers to the "poor me" whose cup of self-pity runneth over and wants all of our attention.

2. Judgmentalism is mutually related to grandiosity. It means that the alcoholic is prone to make value judgments - strikingly inappropriate evaluations - usually in terms of "goodness" or "badness".

3. Intolerance leaves no room for delaying the gratification of personal desires. This is accomplished by gross confusion of priorities with the result that a mere whim or passing fancy is mistakenly given more importance than genuine personal needs.

4. Impulsivity is the result of intolerance or the lack of ability to delay gratification of personal desires. Impulsivity describes behavior which is heedless of the ultimate consequence for self or others.

5. Indecisiveness is related to impulsitivity in the sense that while the latter takes no realistic account of the consequences of the actions, the former precludes effective action altogether. Indecisiveness stems from an unrealistic exaggeration of the negative possibilities of the action ; so one wavers between two or more possible courses of action, more times than not- nothing gets done.

These conditions, grandiosity, judgmentalism, intolerance ,impulsivity, and indecisiveness taken separately or together can lead to the following:

a) Mood swings, which are unrelated to the circumstances to which one tries to link them. Alcoholics zero in on what they want others to think is the cause of the mood swing, when it isn't that at all. More often than not it is something much deeper than the reason given. Inversely it can also be something totally insignificant with no substance at all (e.g. the sugar is too sweet or the donut is too round). Any excuse will do.

b) Unable to demonstrate emotions freely, naturally and without constraint. No emotional spontaneity, no genuine spark.

c) Introspection. A very healthy thing to do is difficult if not impossible for the "dry drunk". It means to look inward to one's examining each thought and desire, which is linked directly to one's attitude.

d) Detachment. Become aloof, display indifference, don't care one way or the other, no special likes or dislikes, they withdraw.

e) Self-absorption- with a tendency to call attention to whatever they have attained. Narcissism which is quite simply self-love. They become pompous asses.

f) The inability to appreciate or enjoy themselves - nothing satisfies.

g) Evidence of disorganization, is easily distracted, complains of boredom, and nothing seems to fit.

h) A nostalgia sets in, a kind of wistful yearning for something of the past, such as freedom from care associated (falsely) with drinking, bars, drinking associates, and friends; the music, blue lights, and tinkle of the ice cubes in a glass in the neighborhood saloon.

i) There can be a kind of romanticism, which includes unrealistic valuations of lifestyles and character traits which can be and usually are objectively dangerous to one's sobriety.

j) Escapism. Fantasizing, daydreaming, and wishful thinking are very much in evidence in the dry drunk syndrome as the individual slips farther and farther from reality.

People can easily recognize the alcoholic's attitudes and behavior during the drinking career. The persistent traits of a dry drunk, after stopping drinking (or the reappearance after an interlude of sobriety) should be recognized and is equally abnormal.

The term "dry drunk" therefore denotes the absences of favorable change in the attitudes and behavior of the alcoholic who is not drinking, or the reversion of these by the alcoholic who has experienced a period of successful sobriety. From these conditions, it is to be inferred that the alcoholic is experiencing discomfort in life.

The self-destructive attitudes and behavior of the dry drunk alcoholic are different in degree but not in kind. The alcoholic, when drinking, has learned to rely on a deeply inadequate, radically immature approach to solving life's problems. And this is exactly what one sees in the dry drunk.

The alcoholic who rationalizes their own irresponsible behavior are also likely to find fault in the attitudes and behavior of others. Although not denying their own shortcomings, they attempt to escape notice by cataloging in great detail the transgressions of others.

The classic maneuver of the dry drunk is over-reaction. The alcoholic may attach a seemingly disproportionate intensity of feeling to an ordinary insignificant event or mishap.

Some alcoholics who experience the dry drunk seem to know all the answers, are seldom at a loss for words when it comes to self-diagnosis. Their knowledge is quite impressive, their apparent insight, as opposed to genuine insight, is convincing.

Dry drunk alcoholis lead impoverished lives. They experience severe limitations to grow, to mature, and benefit from the possibilities that life offers. They lack the freshness and spontaneity that genuinely "recovered" alcoholics manifest. Their life is a closed system, attitudes and behaviors are stereotyped, repetitive, and consequently predictable.

**************************** *********************************

God loves me where I'm at, but He loves me too much to leave me there.

Learn2Live

I hope you are able to get back to meetings soon.

Buffalo66

acdirito,

I read the post on dry drunk. Thanks for that!
Isnt there usually a period of time for all recovering alcoholics where they have to adjust?
I mean, its been 2 1/2 weeks since he is back from rehab.
He doesnt even see his psych doctor for the dual diagnosis til this coming tuesday.

Honestly, while the dry drunk ifo is very helpful, and applies somewhat, he exhibited the majority of those behaviors much much more while he was a homeless, nearly raving mad sometimes psychotic, dangerously promiscuous drunk.

grandiosity pokes its head out here and there, he sort of dreams out loud about what he wants for his life, for our son... and kind of wants it now...

he was always judgemental to a certain degree, but so is my never touched a drop sober, well adjusted successful republican brother.

I so appreciate this, but, it can seem like sometimes people just want to tear down the recovering persons success.

He drank 35 beers a day, before that it was liquor.
He suffered with level of panic that I had never seen. He feared not having that alcohol. He is handsome, charming, he was a conman, and he had many girlfriends who enabled and kept him in booze. He woke up in a literal gutter back in september. He was covered in ****.

It was hard for him to stop using alcohol. Three of his uncles died from alcohol/alcohol related suicide before they reached 45 years old. He is 32. The suicide one was one who quit using the alcohol and killed himself in a psychotic episode.
I am sorry, but, I know he is going through a transition and it is probably a dry drunk, but Jeez louise, cant I just be happy for him to accomplish something that is equivalent to removing a gun from his head, before calling his actions and behavior another complexity of symptoms called Dry Drunk?
Two weeks? It takes me that long to recover form my PMS, and by that time my cycle is in full swing again. We are talking about a 12 year full swing, genetically slanted disease he has.

Sometimes I dont understand the attitudes. If he has a disease, then it can be compared to cancer, right? Its an affliction, It was taking his life, no doubt. He was aging rapidly, his mind was affected.

Now he sought help, went for treatment. He did that on his own. If a loved one with lung cancer was still smoking, it would be difficult, since they were not helping themselves, but if they quit and got treatment, started chemo, a raw diet...would you stand over them and say, "well now you are still acting like a person who has cancer..."

I just dont get it. I respectfully saved the dry drunk symptoms into my computer.
But I just want to allow him to feel good about his choice to LIVE and not DIE everyday for a little longer.

I am no spring chicken. I told myself, and his mother that I am assuming this will be his first run at this. If he came out of treatment and did not do the program, he would perhaps fall back to the bottle. But I know he wont be able to stay there, and I know my plan if he does. I feel pretty clear.

If he falls back to the bottle and goes to get help again, or gets back on the wagon, then he will hopefully see the failed thinking that lead him to believe that he was fine without meetings, or without vigorously working the steps.

He was a dog and a d*ck and a cheating a**hole, neglected his son...etc, etc

He took steps to stop all that starting 6 months ago, detoxed himself, put himself into rehab. Doesnt he deserve some credit? Heck, I cant quit smoking...

I know they are all lousy conmen and women. But mine is not being that right now. He is being here, as much as he knows how to without his drug. I asked that of him. I dont want to throw another list of symptoms at him right now, especially when it reads like a lot of people in the world who have extreme views .

Maybe in a month or 2 months, I will start raising a stink. ANd certainly if I or my son get hurt, or if he loses his 2 chances that my son and I talked about.

trapeze

Buff,

I can't speak for all alcoholics, just my own experience with my husband. My husband was in rehab for 3 months. When he came out he was enthusiastic and insightful about his recovery. This lasted about 2 months. Then he slumped, for many months. As far as I know, he didn't drink again, but I really don't know for sure. I think it just got difficult for him. He had started drinking so young he doesn't have a lot of basic emotional tools. All that stuff the rest of us went through in our teens, 20s, etc, he medicated himself through it. To add to the complexity, he is the son of an alcoholic, and has intense shame about following in his dad's footsteps. I was angry for a while, now I'm more frustated. I'm also wondering if he has the basic strength to become a whole, healthy, mature person, at least in the next few years. I need to focus on what I want.

I told him a couple of months ago that he appeared to be a dry drunk. Recently he's changed sponsors, meeting schedule, therapists, and anti-depressants. This will be his second sponsor, 3rd therapist (in addition to the one in rehab), and second anti-depressant in the past year and a half.

I believe some people can put down the bottle and recover without a lot of fuss. I did, 7 years ago. There are others for whom recovery is difficult and takes years, or once recovered, still aren't fully functioning. There are still others who can't make it out of the hole of addiction and relapse over and over.

There's no way any of us can predict your loved one's path. But I can say based on my experience that recovery can be much more complicated and difficult than I ever dreamed.

Good luck, I hope your road is a smooth one. Some apparently are.