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2nd Step

Old 11-05-2010, 04:22 PM
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Unhappy 2nd Step

I have not had a drink since December 28, 2001....I just realized in the last year or so that not drinking does not mean a person is sober...hence I have become active in AA and now have a sponsor working the steps with me. I am only on step 2, have never been a religious sort....and am struggling with believing a power greater than myself can restore me to sanity.....appreciate any insights!
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Old 11-05-2010, 05:02 PM
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Do you have the willingness to keep your mind open.?
How has your life been, using your power to restore your mind?

"Came" to me suggests a journey of discovery......it doesnt suggest to me.....an instant god awareness...

"Believe",...it doesnt say faith does it........because faith is a completely different word....
Can you see these 12 steps working for others.......Can you believe that what has worked for them could work for you?......

Its not asking you to kneel at the alter........just the willingness to keep your mind open to the idea of "something" that can (my experience) and will restore you mind.

I always find it amusing that we have no problem with being insane.....but that power thing really gets yer..lol.

Hope it works out for you.....id be interested to hear about it..
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Old 11-05-2010, 06:50 PM
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There are a bunch of ways to approach "HOPE" as the principle of the 2nd step, but if you're having trouble with the whole, "Power Greater Than Myself," idea I suggest the following: Make a list of the top 10 most powerful things you can think of in the universe as you understand it. Take your time--I'll check back...
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Old 11-06-2010, 01:56 AM
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hi nula.
are you just even willing to believe?
and like shaun said....do you believe it has worked for others?
there is some great stuff in we agnostics....the one line that got to me and that i couldnt deny....deep down in every one of us was the fundamental idea of God.
when i read that with my sponsor it blew me away....
as a child releigion or God or church...none of it was ever mentioned in our home...ever...
but,i rememebred praying or talking to i dont know what or who...that was the truth...
and it was also enough to make a start...for me.
willingness and open mindedness are all you need for step 2.
welcome.
great you have decided to set out on what is a magnificent journey.
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Old 11-06-2010, 01:27 PM
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Send your list PM when you've finished if you want to... Meanwhile, here's one way to look at step #2. There's no commitment to the second step aside from being WILLING and OPEN to the concept of a power greater than ourselves.

2. Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

Hope, as a tool, relies requires being honest (#1) with myself and, having come to grips with the fact that I cannot do it with all my willpower and/or good intentions, finding the answer outside of ME. Me PLUS something else constitutes something greater than myself, true? Therefore, a group of people or a sponsor or a book or a combination of these, plus myself, is by definition, a 'power greater than myself."

Think about this: I lived on one side of town and I had to walk one certain path to get to where I worked every day and it was the only way I knew and every day I went through the path I'd get my ass beat by thugs. Every day! I knew it was going to hurt but I had no choice at all. I HAD to go that way to get what I wanted. And I'd get beat over and over and over. Finally, one day I asked a friend to come with me--and we made it through without incident. Isn't that a power greater than me alone? We did it a couple more times and I achieved the same results. And if perhaps I took a different person who knew, maybe they'd help? So the seed of HOPE was planted that if I did what they did, I just might get what they got.

It also says, "COULD restore us to sanity." It doesn't say anything about a magical transference from nutzo overnight. If I can rely on a group of people, or a sponsor or a combination--a "Power Greater Than Myself"--to show me the way; If I can do what they did as they did it, then I can reasonably expect to get the same results. If insanity is defined as, "Doing the same thing all the while expecting different results," it then follows that sanity can be defined as, "doing the same thing (as they did) expecting the same result."

The Spiritual Principle of the second step is HOPE. That if I do what they did, I can reasonably expect to get what they got. If I do it often enough, it will become routine. As a spiritual tool, HOPE simply means "If I can't do it alone, perhaps there's someone out there who can help me?" and I CAN BE restored. It's knowing that and asking for help. I no longer have to face ANYTHING alone. ANY THING.

HOPE. It is the power of the Alcoholics Anonymous Fellowship and the second step in becoming usefully and happily whole.
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Old 11-06-2010, 01:47 PM
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For me it wasn't too hard (atleast at first) because I believe that I had an overwhelming spiritual experience. For me the tough part was the fact that I thought I had to be perfectly sound in my spirituality and that I had to start going to church again. And I do not believe in my own religion hardly at all. (I grew up a roman catholic) Although I do believe that a lot of what is taught in the bible have some pretty good moral ideations.. It's just not for me. For me it was just accepting and knowing that I have to believe in something greater than myself of my understanding.. or my misunderstanding as I like to say. And even if you don't believe in a God of your understanding the real point is to just live how a loving God would want you to live.. The moral judgement is how I like to see it, because even though some days I question whether there really is a God, I still live life as if there is and how He would want me to live and that makes me such a better person and makes me more pleasant to be around. I'm kind of rambling today though so I don't know if it makes any sense to you, my awesome alcoholic mind is all over today lol.. But I hope this helps atleast a little.
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Old 11-06-2010, 02:11 PM
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nula. Congratulations on your sober years
Welcome to SR.....
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Old 11-06-2010, 06:05 PM
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I did my entire Twelve Steps without having the pressure of figuring out God. My sponsor was secure enough in his delivery of The Steps to leave that to me to figure out--to develop a personal relationship with a Power Greater Than Myself by myself. The way I understand them, the steps are designed to help ANYONE get sober regardless their concept of God and, in fact, are designed to bring about a spiritual awakening to ENABLE me to begin my pursuit of understanding what spirituality means to me.
For a man angry at God, THAT is HOPE.
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Old 01-15-2011, 11:53 PM
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I like what Skg wrote. Its perfectly normal to have doubts during the steps, or feel no connection with a higher power, thats what steps are for, get that spiritual experience. I wrote things in my 4 like 'i don't believe in a god' 'god hates me' 'this will never work' ect ect ect. luckily it didn't matter what i thought about it, i just had to do it
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Old 01-16-2011, 05:41 AM
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A member of AA mentioned this "power greater than ourselves" in step two to me. It may be helpful to you.

He said...notice in step two it doesn't say God, or Higher Power...it says power greater than ourselves.

He said, the power greater than ourselves may very well be the people in the fellowship. A group of sober members has more power than I do.
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Old 01-16-2011, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Nula View Post
I just realized in the last year or so that not drinking does not mean a person is sober...
Very wise of you Nula to recognize that.......and I believe you're absolutely correct.

Be careful, however, where you say that here on SR. Many others (outside of AA mostly) don't agree with this line of thinking and it becomes a point of great contention. Ppl look at it as AA elitism and/or just plain old unattractive.
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Old 02-08-2011, 04:10 AM
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Hi Nula, I found the same thing except i was 2-3 years in fellowship till i decided my easier softer way was not working. I had a sober rockbottom and decided to stop playing and to get on my knees and ask for strength to find a sponsor to help me through the steps.
Spent a long time on step 2, until i realized that that I didn't need to be a theologian or a philospher questioning the existance of a god or not, all I had to do is belive in something greater than myself, was an athesit, became an agnostic, an open minded agnostic. The only thing I know is that there may be a god but in every alternative u niverse i am not it or one of them. I realised that I did have faith, in aa and I could pray to anything, my friend prays to his cupboard, the key is the ability to be humble, get on your knees and pray. Prayer ios key to this alcoholics recovery. I pray all the time. Bit strange for an agnostic but prayer does work, the only people who scoff are those who have not used it enough
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Old 02-13-2011, 11:55 PM
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Step 2

Thanks for the topic.

When discussing the topic of God or Spirituality I usually like referring to the second step principle for Help. Here is the principle: Humility and an open mind can lead us to faith and every AA meeting is a reassurance that God can restore us to sanity if we rightly relate ourselves to him”. (Excerpt from the12&12)

The reason why I refer to the second step principle has something to do with the "faith" part that’s all. It says and I quote “Humility and an open mind can lead us to faith”. Faith is spoken here in general terms and can comprise many facets and sects not just ones associated with a specific religion. This God, as we understand him, can restore us to sanity if we align his will with ours.

I have many friends in AA who come from different backgrounds and different beliefs. I respect their decisions to purse whatever spiritual avenue they choose that can help them sustain a quality of life and ultimately sober living –one day at a time.

Some of these friends are profound atheists who claim no affiliation at all. They use the collective knowledge found in the rooms of AA as the God of their understanding. There are others, also, who worship idols and demigods and those too who confess a more natural holistic approach to faith. There are others -Like myself - who found comfort and peace under the loving arms of a savior called Jesus Christ. The key here is that we build upon some altar to a better life and do so by any faith building prospect possible, as long as we do this to improve our spiritual state, restore sanity in our lives of course, and do it without imposing those beliefs on others.

The point I’m trying to make is simple…There a many avenues leading to a faith that works and by choosing a “God of our Understanding” that aligns that faith to his/hers will is one of the key components to spiritual renewal. This renewal, I believe, and a renew sense of sanity can awaken our senses to the prospect of a better life one day at a time.
~God Bless~
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Old 02-14-2011, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Nula View Post
I am only on step 2, have never been a religious sort....and am struggling with believing a power greater than myself can restore me to sanity.....appreciate any insights!
I came to the realization that I was religious about a lot of things....drinking for one. I don't have to go to church or believe in something to be religious. If I do the same things day in and day out, like going to work, or going to the gym, that could also be termed as being religious. I drank every day....day in and day out always thinking things would change for the better. Never did. Got worse! Not only religious but insane thinking!! Today I'm religious about AA and working on my relationship with my Higher Power. Which brings us to your other point. Look in the mirror and remember the last time you were drunk, hung over and things were coming down around your ears....all because of your ability or inability to make the proper choices. If you can't come to the realiztion that there's got to be something more powerful and greater than what you're looking at, you're in the right place.
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Old 01-30-2012, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by skg View Post
Send your list PM when you've finished if you want to... Meanwhile, here's one way to look at step #2. There's no commitment to the second step aside from being WILLING and OPEN to the concept of a power greater than ourselves.

2. Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

Hope, as a tool, relies requires being honest (#1) with myself and, having come to grips with the fact that I cannot do it with all my willpower and/or good intentions, finding the answer outside of ME. Me PLUS something else constitutes something greater than myself, true? Therefore, a group of people or a sponsor or a book or a combination of these, plus myself, is by definition, a 'power greater than myself."

Think about this: I lived on one side of town and I had to walk one certain path to get to where I worked every day and it was the only way I knew and every day I went through the path I'd get my ass beat by thugs. Every day! I knew it was going to hurt but I had no choice at all. I HAD to go that way to get what I wanted. And I'd get beat over and over and over. Finally, one day I asked a friend to come with me--and we made it through without incident. Isn't that a power greater than me alone? We did it a couple more times and I achieved the same results. And if perhaps I took a different person who knew, maybe they'd help? So the seed of HOPE was planted that if I did what they did, I just might get what they got.

It also says, "COULD restore us to sanity." It doesn't say anything about a magical transference from nutzo overnight. If I can rely on a group of people, or a sponsor or a combination--a "Power Greater Than Myself"--to show me the way; If I can do what they did as they did it, then I can reasonably expect to get the same results. If insanity is defined as, "Doing the same thing all the while expecting different results," it then follows that sanity can be defined as, "doing the same thing (as they did) expecting the same result."

The Spiritual Principle of the second step is HOPE. That if I do what they did, I can reasonably expect to get what they got. If I do it often enough, it will become routine. As a spiritual tool, HOPE simply means "If I can't do it alone, perhaps there's someone out there who can help me?" and I CAN BE restored. It's knowing that and asking for help. I no longer have to face ANYTHING alone. ANY THING.

HOPE. It is the power of the Alcoholics Anonymous Fellowship and the second step in becoming usefully and happily whole.
Thank you for that, I have been struggling with this step as well and boy this was so helpful.
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Old 01-30-2012, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Veritas1 View Post
A member of AA mentioned this "power greater than ourselves" in step two to me. It may be helpful to you.

He said...notice in step two it doesn't say God, or Higher Power...it says power greater than ourselves.

He said, the power greater than ourselves may very well be the people in the fellowship. A group of sober members has more power than I do.
I wrote this awhile ago, and I don't believe this to be true today.

I believe the Power greater than ourselves, is God.

"We found that as soon as we were able to lay aside prejudice and express even a willingness to believe in a Power greater than ourselves, we commenced to get results, even though it was impossible for any of us to fully define or comprehend that Power, which is God."

Define that power, which is God.

Alcoholics Anonymous, We Agnostics
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Old 01-31-2012, 05:17 AM
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But to some people God might just be a power which they themselves can't control, it doesnt have to be a giant spirit in the sky.

I suppose whatever helps us heal, we are all different.
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyerFan View Post
But to some people God might just be a power which they themselves can't control, it doesnt have to be a giant spirit in the sky.
I think I get what you mean FF but bear in mind, if it's truly a power greater than you, you won't, by definition, be able to control it.

There are handful of references in the BB this portion of step 2 (there's a lot more but I'm just taking the parts that reference your post and Veritas'. The second is probably my favorite as it was the most demanding / tough for me early on (laying aside prejudices was and is tough......but it's highly rewarding).

p12
It was only a matter of being willing to believe in a
Power greater than myself. Nothing more was required
of me to make my beginning.


p46
We found that as soon as we were able to
lay aside prejudice and express even a willingness to
believe in a Power greater than ourselves, we commenced
to get results, even though it was impossible
for any of us to fully define or comprehend that
Power, which is God.


p47
We needed to ask ourselves but one short question.
“Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe,
that there is a Power greater than myself?’’ As soon
as a man can say that he does believe, or is willing to
believe, we emphatically assure him that he is on his
way.


So any power greater than us is a start....it gets me on the way...it's a beginning - and a heck-of-a-lot better than thinking I AM the highest power...lol

A little further on though, they're a lot more definite about what they're talking about
p55
We finally saw that faith in some kind of God was
a part of our make-up, just as much as the feeling we
have for a friend. Sometimes we had to search fearlessly,
but He was there. He was as much a fact as
we were. We found the Great Reality deep down
within us. In the last analysis it is only there that He
may be found. It was so with us.


I think most of us probably used the tables, a therapist, a sponsor, the fellowship, our homegroup, the steps, and so on as our first, second or more Higher Power. Keep working the steps with a humble and searching heart and I think you'll like what you find.
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Old 01-31-2012, 09:36 AM
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I'm gonna give it my best shot anyways.
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Old 01-31-2012, 10:27 AM
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Good...... that's what yer supposed to do.

A lot of the finer concepts within the book and the steps come with time and practice. Just like anything new, it takes a while to get the basics down, then you can move onto the more minute details.
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