possible to move on?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Japan
Posts: 71
possible to move on?
Hi Everyone,
I apologize beforehand for this long-winded message.
I live in Japan, married with two young kids. I found out from my oldest brother in Canada that our 78-year old father is now showing serious signs of dementia. Last time I saw my dad was the summer of 2008 when I was in Canada. I wrote before on this forum about how disappointed I was that he could only spare an hour to meet with me and my wife and daughter for a brief lunch.
Someone on this forum or another suggested I read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward. In the book she describes many ACOA clients who say they have forgiven their parent(s), but have not actually in their hearts and minds since they still harbour issues and resentments. I can identify with this sentiment since I have received lots of good advice from others on this forum about letting go and moving on, but have found it hard to do. Now that my dad probably won't recall much from the past, I feel like the opportunity of writing a letter to him, as Dr. Forward suggests, to tell him how much I was hurst... has slpped by.
Unlikely I will be abe to get back to see him before he passes away since things are rough here financially.
I feel anger and resentments also towards my oldest brotherr who is 54. I wrote on this forum before how I had attempted to reach out over the past 7 years(three times) by sending him emails, including two with pics of my new Japanese wife and new daughter. As I wrote before, I would get these pathetic replies from him that were civil enough, but very weak; " oh hi, thanks for the email, I gotta run now but will write soon..." that happend on three different occassions, and not once, NOT once (sorry for the emotion), did he ever ask me about my wife, kids....
So I telephone him last month since I found out from our dad that he (my brother) had moved back to Canada from the USA where he had been working for the past 15 years. We chatted for about 15 minutes, talked about his life(new job, remarried his first wife...), but little or anything about me. We talked about the decling heath (mental) of our dad. Now after all these years he has decided to become a William Shakespeare, sorry for the bitter sarcasm, but he wrote this email to me after Canadian Thanksgiving when he saw our dad to raise the possibility of him moving into a group home. Of course he doesn't want to send the message to our two other brothers, since no one talks to each other, so I became the defacto peacemaker and had to forward the message to our younger brother and Canada and #2 in South Korea.
I did not attend our mother's funeral in 1993 while I was in Japan since I thought it would be hypocritical to do so since she hated my guts so badly. I feel like telling my brothers, well you're going to have to take care of dad since I don't have a pot to %$#* in financially, and they (at least my oldest brother in Calgary ) does, to help out, or close enought to visit him...
My best friend in Canada wrote to me that your brtohers are not bad people, but since they grew up in such a messed up home, are unable to deal with showing emotions to family (siblings) or dearling with painful issues.
My second brtoher in Korea never bothered to tell me he got married (though only for 6 months), or would tell my wife or I during the time we lived in same country overseas that he had a new Korean girlfriend.
I notified my brothers when I found out from our dad that our sister had been diagnosed with schizophrenia and living in a group home. I had told the oldest and #2 about this years ago but would get nothing in the way of a comment or rection; like they just had tuned out so much to the past, family stuff. Now my oldest brother in this latest email which he wrote about our dad brought up the issue of our sister, since up until now,k it had been dad who had looked out for her and taken care of her affairs. Jeez, I had mentioned this before, and now he writes about it. I annot do anything for here from here in Japan, so again, the responsibility falls in his lap since he is in Alberta and she and my dad in Ontario.
My youngest brother in Vancouver when I asked if his advice whether it is a good idea to write our oldest brother and senc him pictures of my two kids, let him know he is an uncle, said of course it is a good idea. In his pithy pearls of wisdom he wrote to "hope for the best and expect the worst..." So now after getting an updated (CC'd) from our oldest brother about our father's situation, he has the gall to ask me if I don't mind contacting our brother to see what is happening with dad, and then let him know...I got that email last week and I have this intense urge to write him saying, " D____ I am not your b_ tch, so if you want to find out how dad is, you can email or brother yourself since I did forward his message which included an email address...and furthermore, you in Vancouver are a hell of a lot closer to Calgary than I am here in Japan....
The bloody denail and BS just really gets me down. I wrote before when I had been in Canada in 2008 I suggested to my dad I vist the group home my sister was in so she could meet my wife and daughter, probably an opportunity not to come around again for quite some time since she is in Ontario, Canada and my family and I in Japan. Dad was totally adamant about how bad an idea it was since he said" her memory is wiped clean and she would not remember you..." I obeyed his wishes but later wrote someone at the Canadian Schizophrenia Society to get a professional opinion about whether it is true that my sister would not recognize or remember me. I received I nice email back from the president saying it is not true and he thought my idea to send my sister a letter with pictures of my children would be a good idea. I did not want to embarass my dad so I never mentioned this, but the lie bothered me...He comes up with these cockanny ideas and reasons to defend family. I never beleiveed that he ever told my oldest brother that I was married or had kids. When I told my dad on the phone how I thought John was so self-centered and selfish, he shot nack with some lame excuse about how much pressure John was under with the BP oil spill. My brother works in the oil and gas industry, but hell, Calgary is a long way from the Gulf of Mexico.
I am really sorry for writing so much and taking up all your valubale time.
Patk
I apologize beforehand for this long-winded message.
I live in Japan, married with two young kids. I found out from my oldest brother in Canada that our 78-year old father is now showing serious signs of dementia. Last time I saw my dad was the summer of 2008 when I was in Canada. I wrote before on this forum about how disappointed I was that he could only spare an hour to meet with me and my wife and daughter for a brief lunch.
Someone on this forum or another suggested I read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward. In the book she describes many ACOA clients who say they have forgiven their parent(s), but have not actually in their hearts and minds since they still harbour issues and resentments. I can identify with this sentiment since I have received lots of good advice from others on this forum about letting go and moving on, but have found it hard to do. Now that my dad probably won't recall much from the past, I feel like the opportunity of writing a letter to him, as Dr. Forward suggests, to tell him how much I was hurst... has slpped by.
Unlikely I will be abe to get back to see him before he passes away since things are rough here financially.
I feel anger and resentments also towards my oldest brotherr who is 54. I wrote on this forum before how I had attempted to reach out over the past 7 years(three times) by sending him emails, including two with pics of my new Japanese wife and new daughter. As I wrote before, I would get these pathetic replies from him that were civil enough, but very weak; " oh hi, thanks for the email, I gotta run now but will write soon..." that happend on three different occassions, and not once, NOT once (sorry for the emotion), did he ever ask me about my wife, kids....
So I telephone him last month since I found out from our dad that he (my brother) had moved back to Canada from the USA where he had been working for the past 15 years. We chatted for about 15 minutes, talked about his life(new job, remarried his first wife...), but little or anything about me. We talked about the decling heath (mental) of our dad. Now after all these years he has decided to become a William Shakespeare, sorry for the bitter sarcasm, but he wrote this email to me after Canadian Thanksgiving when he saw our dad to raise the possibility of him moving into a group home. Of course he doesn't want to send the message to our two other brothers, since no one talks to each other, so I became the defacto peacemaker and had to forward the message to our younger brother and Canada and #2 in South Korea.
I did not attend our mother's funeral in 1993 while I was in Japan since I thought it would be hypocritical to do so since she hated my guts so badly. I feel like telling my brothers, well you're going to have to take care of dad since I don't have a pot to %$#* in financially, and they (at least my oldest brother in Calgary ) does, to help out, or close enought to visit him...
My best friend in Canada wrote to me that your brtohers are not bad people, but since they grew up in such a messed up home, are unable to deal with showing emotions to family (siblings) or dearling with painful issues.
My second brtoher in Korea never bothered to tell me he got married (though only for 6 months), or would tell my wife or I during the time we lived in same country overseas that he had a new Korean girlfriend.
I notified my brothers when I found out from our dad that our sister had been diagnosed with schizophrenia and living in a group home. I had told the oldest and #2 about this years ago but would get nothing in the way of a comment or rection; like they just had tuned out so much to the past, family stuff. Now my oldest brother in this latest email which he wrote about our dad brought up the issue of our sister, since up until now,k it had been dad who had looked out for her and taken care of her affairs. Jeez, I had mentioned this before, and now he writes about it. I annot do anything for here from here in Japan, so again, the responsibility falls in his lap since he is in Alberta and she and my dad in Ontario.
My youngest brother in Vancouver when I asked if his advice whether it is a good idea to write our oldest brother and senc him pictures of my two kids, let him know he is an uncle, said of course it is a good idea. In his pithy pearls of wisdom he wrote to "hope for the best and expect the worst..." So now after getting an updated (CC'd) from our oldest brother about our father's situation, he has the gall to ask me if I don't mind contacting our brother to see what is happening with dad, and then let him know...I got that email last week and I have this intense urge to write him saying, " D____ I am not your b_ tch, so if you want to find out how dad is, you can email or brother yourself since I did forward his message which included an email address...and furthermore, you in Vancouver are a hell of a lot closer to Calgary than I am here in Japan....
The bloody denail and BS just really gets me down. I wrote before when I had been in Canada in 2008 I suggested to my dad I vist the group home my sister was in so she could meet my wife and daughter, probably an opportunity not to come around again for quite some time since she is in Ontario, Canada and my family and I in Japan. Dad was totally adamant about how bad an idea it was since he said" her memory is wiped clean and she would not remember you..." I obeyed his wishes but later wrote someone at the Canadian Schizophrenia Society to get a professional opinion about whether it is true that my sister would not recognize or remember me. I received I nice email back from the president saying it is not true and he thought my idea to send my sister a letter with pictures of my children would be a good idea. I did not want to embarass my dad so I never mentioned this, but the lie bothered me...He comes up with these cockanny ideas and reasons to defend family. I never beleiveed that he ever told my oldest brother that I was married or had kids. When I told my dad on the phone how I thought John was so self-centered and selfish, he shot nack with some lame excuse about how much pressure John was under with the BP oil spill. My brother works in the oil and gas industry, but hell, Calgary is a long way from the Gulf of Mexico.
I am really sorry for writing so much and taking up all your valubale time.
Patk
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Hello Pat, and glad to see you again 
no worries, that is what we are here for
"letting to and moving on" is the _goal_. It's not something you _do_. It's something you acomplish. In order to reach that goal we all take certain _actions_, the result of which is to be free of those overpowering emotions of anger and resentment.
If you read thru the posts in this forum, as well as elsewhere on SR, you will see that we all have a program of recovery. For some people that program is therapy, for others it's a 12-step program, for others it's a religion-based program. There's many different ways to do it.
What is common to _everybody_ who makes progress and improves their life is that they take action thru a program of recovery.
You mention in your post a number of reasons why your family has hurt you. All of which sound perfectly valid to me. But you didn't write anything about what _actions_ you are following to overcome all these emotions. You said you read one of Susan Forwards' books, but that's not an action, that's just gathering information.
Have you joined any kind of recovery group? Have you hired the services of a professional, like a therapist or social worker?
My answer to your question "possible to move on?" is a definite maybe. If you take action and work a program, whichever program that might be, then you will have the same results that everybody else does when they work a program. They overcome and move on.
Mike
Originally Posted by Patk 
.... I apologize beforehand for this long-winded message.....
Originally Posted by Patk
.... Someone on this forum or another suggested I read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward. In the book she describes many ACOA clients who say they have forgiven their parent(s), but have not actually in their hearts and minds since they still harbour issues and resentments. I can identify with this sentiment since I have received lots of good advice from others on this forum about letting go and moving on, but have found it hard to do.....
If you read thru the posts in this forum, as well as elsewhere on SR, you will see that we all have a program of recovery. For some people that program is therapy, for others it's a 12-step program, for others it's a religion-based program. There's many different ways to do it.
What is common to _everybody_ who makes progress and improves their life is that they take action thru a program of recovery.
You mention in your post a number of reasons why your family has hurt you. All of which sound perfectly valid to me. But you didn't write anything about what _actions_ you are following to overcome all these emotions. You said you read one of Susan Forwards' books, but that's not an action, that's just gathering information.
Have you joined any kind of recovery group? Have you hired the services of a professional, like a therapist or social worker?
My answer to your question "possible to move on?" is a definite maybe. If you take action and work a program, whichever program that might be, then you will have the same results that everybody else does when they work a program. They overcome and move on.
Mike
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Japan
Posts: 71
Sorry to go on, but I have so much on my chest to get off. I can understand why my oldest brother might be pissed off at me since I blew off his wedding reception back in 1981. I know that was inexcusable, but I just wish he knew how difficult a time for me it was then. I never knew how upset he was until I visited him a year later in Sarnia while I was at UWO and he asked me pointedly, "Why are you visiting me?" I wish he knew that I had a tough time that year he got married. During the last year of high school, grade 13, my parents decided that it would solve all the problems at home if I were to move across town and live with my father's mother. No thought was given to my well-being (i.e. being asked to leave my high school, friends and finish the year somewhere else), so when my dad was taking me in the car to her house, I hopped out of the car while he was driving and ran away to my friend’s house where I stayed for two weeks.
So that year (personally and academically was a rough one). Had to repeat a few courses the following year. So, in the winter of 1981 I did not see much of a future. So after the wedding, I went to a pizza restaurant with friends to drink beer. I arrived at the reception much later...
Not very responsible and brotherly on my part. I am sure he or my other siblings would view this as “water under the bridge, : and see no value in bringing it up..Funny how the guy who was the problem in the family, get him out of the picture and all will be fine, si the only one communicating with the other siblings forwarding updates about our father. Go figure.
So that year (personally and academically was a rough one). Had to repeat a few courses the following year. So, in the winter of 1981 I did not see much of a future. So after the wedding, I went to a pizza restaurant with friends to drink beer. I arrived at the reception much later...
Not very responsible and brotherly on my part. I am sure he or my other siblings would view this as “water under the bridge, : and see no value in bringing it up..Funny how the guy who was the problem in the family, get him out of the picture and all will be fine, si the only one communicating with the other siblings forwarding updates about our father. Go figure.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Japan
Posts: 71
Hi DesertEyes,
Thank you for the reply to my post. I really appreciate it. I do agree with what you wrote about taking a proactive approach and working in some program or with someone. I live in a very small city in Japan, so there are not many services available for foreigners. I have been seeing a Japanese psychiatrist for about a year. We meet once a week and talk for about 45-50 minutes. We do our best to make ourselves understood to one another using a mixture of Japanese/English. There is a small AA group that meets here in the basement of the Catholic church I attend. There are a few members and I have attended only two meeting during the past two years since I felt I could not contribute or share in Japanese, and had a lot of difficulty understanding what other members were saying. The people are all VERY nice and I was never made to feel unwelcome, but I suppose I compare these meeting experiences with ones in Canada in which language was never an "issue." I have a good friend, an American Catholic priest who I regard as a spiritual mentor for me. He lives about 40 km from me, but we try to meet for a coffee when he comes into my town; usually at least 3-4 times a month. Another American Catholic priest in a neighbouring province runs AA meetings there. I met with him 18 months ago to do my 4th and 5th step, and also attended an AA area conference he organized. I would like to see him more but he is a little too far from where I live; about a 5-hour bus & train journey.
I have all the important AA literature as well as ACOA. I have read it, and found it helpful, but I guess I have not been able to make it "stick" since I have fallen off the wagon more times I would like to admit these past two years since moving back to Japan.
So I do the best I can here. My wife is supportive and she wants to see me happy and not drink.
About my family. Well I did something my Catholic priest friend suggested after we completed the 4th and 5th step. He suggested to burn the paper the inventory was written on a symbolic gesture to put the past behind me. I did find it helpful, but those names on the list began to creep back into my head not long after. I also followed his advice to pray for my enemies/people I hold resentments towards on a daily basis for two weeks. It helped a bit, but not enough where I could feel I truly put everything behind me. I have read stories on this website which inspire me and help:
The Forgiveness Project
Thanks a lot.
Patk
Thank you for the reply to my post. I really appreciate it. I do agree with what you wrote about taking a proactive approach and working in some program or with someone. I live in a very small city in Japan, so there are not many services available for foreigners. I have been seeing a Japanese psychiatrist for about a year. We meet once a week and talk for about 45-50 minutes. We do our best to make ourselves understood to one another using a mixture of Japanese/English. There is a small AA group that meets here in the basement of the Catholic church I attend. There are a few members and I have attended only two meeting during the past two years since I felt I could not contribute or share in Japanese, and had a lot of difficulty understanding what other members were saying. The people are all VERY nice and I was never made to feel unwelcome, but I suppose I compare these meeting experiences with ones in Canada in which language was never an "issue." I have a good friend, an American Catholic priest who I regard as a spiritual mentor for me. He lives about 40 km from me, but we try to meet for a coffee when he comes into my town; usually at least 3-4 times a month. Another American Catholic priest in a neighbouring province runs AA meetings there. I met with him 18 months ago to do my 4th and 5th step, and also attended an AA area conference he organized. I would like to see him more but he is a little too far from where I live; about a 5-hour bus & train journey.
I have all the important AA literature as well as ACOA. I have read it, and found it helpful, but I guess I have not been able to make it "stick" since I have fallen off the wagon more times I would like to admit these past two years since moving back to Japan.
So I do the best I can here. My wife is supportive and she wants to see me happy and not drink.
About my family. Well I did something my Catholic priest friend suggested after we completed the 4th and 5th step. He suggested to burn the paper the inventory was written on a symbolic gesture to put the past behind me. I did find it helpful, but those names on the list began to creep back into my head not long after. I also followed his advice to pray for my enemies/people I hold resentments towards on a daily basis for two weeks. It helped a bit, but not enough where I could feel I truly put everything behind me. I have read stories on this website which inspire me and help:
The Forgiveness Project
Thanks a lot.
Patk
AAudrey
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 209
Your initial question is, "Possible to Move On?" I didn't think so. I was hopeless and began to drink as a solution. My mother and my brother (M - active; B - not drinking and never worked the steps) are both Psychotics.
I was told that no matter what happened to me, I can recover. I MUST believe that is true, or I will surely die. The solution is in the Steps.
Honestly, your isolation is about complete. Japan you say? Why, you're a continent away!
I also was told that a GRAIN of understanding can grant pardon to a SEEMINGLY UNFORGIVABLE circumstance or situation.
Without forgiveness first, I found it impossible to recover.
Anyway, spiritual principles solve ALL of our problems, not just some, but ALL.
Tolerance/Patience, Love, Service, Courage, Acceptance to name a few...
Anyway, today I can't do this anymore and feel hopeless again. My DOS is 11-10-08. Honestly, I will make the decision after that to drink or not to drink. I have made it the past two years and now, I'm loosing steam and want to forget.
Psychotic alcoholics. Great! I must remember that my poor brother had it worse than me; resulting in his actions.
I was told that no matter what happened to me, I can recover. I MUST believe that is true, or I will surely die. The solution is in the Steps.
Honestly, your isolation is about complete. Japan you say? Why, you're a continent away!
I also was told that a GRAIN of understanding can grant pardon to a SEEMINGLY UNFORGIVABLE circumstance or situation.
Without forgiveness first, I found it impossible to recover.
Anyway, spiritual principles solve ALL of our problems, not just some, but ALL.
Tolerance/Patience, Love, Service, Courage, Acceptance to name a few...
Anyway, today I can't do this anymore and feel hopeless again. My DOS is 11-10-08. Honestly, I will make the decision after that to drink or not to drink. I have made it the past two years and now, I'm loosing steam and want to forget.
Psychotic alcoholics. Great! I must remember that my poor brother had it worse than me; resulting in his actions.
AAudrey
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 209
I don't share this out loud, with the exception of a few people. I can't take the pain anymore. How can I possibly recover from a psychotic active alcoholic mother and a psychotic alcoholic brother who committed heinous crimes that I was forced to witness as a young girl.
I apologize for posting this in your thread. Maybe it will be better hidden in here.
I apologize for posting this in your thread. Maybe it will be better hidden in here.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Japan
Posts: 71
Hi Spirit08,
Certainly NO to apologize about posting on this thread I started. I need(ed) all the advice and suppport I can get, so I really appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post!!!!!!
VERY Sincerely,
PatK
Certainly NO to apologize about posting on this thread I started. I need(ed) all the advice and suppport I can get, so I really appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post!!!!!!
VERY Sincerely,
PatK
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 1,086
I don't share this out loud, with the exception of a few people. I can't take the pain anymore. How can I possibly recover from a psychotic active alcoholic mother and a psychotic alcoholic brother who committed heinous crimes that I was forced to witness as a young girl.
How can you recover if you start drinking again and drink yourself to numbness rather than working on things? Drinking doesn't solve your problems.
I've been sober since 1991. I've been in therapy since ...uh, 1992? I resolved many issues, including rape, attempted rape (neither by family members, at least), repeated abuse (both family and non-family), and the general toxicity of living in an alcoholic household. But I didn't resolve those issues when I was drinking.
Please don't go back down that road. It doesn't lead to peace, it leads to the same place you saw your mother and brother go.
PatK - I think this response applies to your situation also. Notice the therapy bit? I didn't get better by thinking about it. As Mike said, I got better by acting, by deciding that *I* was going to be the one in control of my life, not all the people from my past who were still controlling my emotional state without even being there.
Mike is right. If you don't take action, nothing will change. Or, to use the common phrasing, nothing changes if nothing changes.
I wish you both godspeed in finding the solutions that work for you each to find peace in your lives.
AAudrey
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 209
Anniversary dates suck! Hate them. Don't like the attention and believe I'm supposed to be further along than I am. I spent two years gaining knowledge of my condition, the steps and AA. Now, Im just open to therapy, saw a psychiatrist and told him everything about my mother and brother. This is the last stop in my road to recovery. I have dealt with so much PA, SA and EA as a child and again my ex-husband and employers.
I read last night in this forum that forgiveness seems to be the key to recovering as an ACOAs ... Guess I'm on the right track when I'm not in self-pity and seeking justice.
I read last night in this forum that forgiveness seems to be the key to recovering as an ACOAs ... Guess I'm on the right track when I'm not in self-pity and seeking justice.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 1,086
I have no idea what my anniversary date is. I never went to AA. I stopped cold turkey and with no support group, or even supportive friends. I had no friends when I stopped. I only remember the year because I remember falling off the wagon in '90 (first went dry in '87) and getting back on it in '91 when I realized that my life was getting worse, not better, when I drank.
Since I never did the AA, I never did the steps, I had no expectations surrounding any kind of date. Some people are highly motivated by that. I was motivated by the fear of turning into the alcoholics I was related to and associated with. Perhaps it would be easier to look at how far you HAVE come, rather than how much farther you have to go.
Honestly? I've been at this a long time, and I now realize that recovery isn't a destination. It's not like one day I will wake up and have a big gaudy gold plated trophy to show off on my mantle saying "I'm now fully recovered!" There will always be something lurking about. The difference between me now and me back in the bad ol' days is that now, nearly all my days are good. Before? Not so much. I can go months on end without any ACoA crud creeping up on me. It isn't a daily experience anymore. And my life is so much more peaceful and enjoyable as a result.
Since I never did the AA, I never did the steps, I had no expectations surrounding any kind of date. Some people are highly motivated by that. I was motivated by the fear of turning into the alcoholics I was related to and associated with. Perhaps it would be easier to look at how far you HAVE come, rather than how much farther you have to go.
Honestly? I've been at this a long time, and I now realize that recovery isn't a destination. It's not like one day I will wake up and have a big gaudy gold plated trophy to show off on my mantle saying "I'm now fully recovered!" There will always be something lurking about. The difference between me now and me back in the bad ol' days is that now, nearly all my days are good. Before? Not so much. I can go months on end without any ACoA crud creeping up on me. It isn't a daily experience anymore. And my life is so much more peaceful and enjoyable as a result.
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