Sober for 12 years..No amends?
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Sober for 12 years..No amends?
My SIL was a raging addict and it literally tore my husbands family apart. I was in my early 20's and had NO idea what was going on only that I couldn't stand her behavior anymore and didn't want it around my kids (5+7 at the time.)None of the 3 siblings speak to each other, my husband didn't speak to his mom and dad for ten years. We only found out she was using adn got clean well after the fact. Fast forward 13 years...my AD is a heroin addict in treatment and my SIL has contacted her, wants to be there to support her. She is 12.5 years clean, apparently works the program, etc. Hey, I will take anyone who wants to my help my AD and may have a positive impact.
She hasn't made any overtures to my husband and I, which is fine. My qualm with her is that if she worked her steps..where was our amends? Not only did she ruin every major holiday, was SOOO mean to my little ones, but she also called my husband one day and told him that she was going to go to our house and "fu**ing kill me".
No amends to me or my husband or our kids although she hurt us greatly....is this not really my business? Not for me to dictate her recovery and who she feels she owes an amends to.My sponsor said maybe helping our dughter is a living amends...isn't that chiken sh*& not to make direct amends whenever possible? Whaddya think?
She hasn't made any overtures to my husband and I, which is fine. My qualm with her is that if she worked her steps..where was our amends? Not only did she ruin every major holiday, was SOOO mean to my little ones, but she also called my husband one day and told him that she was going to go to our house and "fu**ing kill me".
No amends to me or my husband or our kids although she hurt us greatly....is this not really my business? Not for me to dictate her recovery and who she feels she owes an amends to.My sponsor said maybe helping our dughter is a living amends...isn't that chiken sh*& not to make direct amends whenever possible? Whaddya think?
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She is 12.5 years clean, apparently works the program, etc. Hey, I will take anyone who wants to my help my AD and may have a positive impact.
She hasn't made any overtures to my husband and I, which is fine. My qualm with her is that if she worked her steps..where was our amends?
She hasn't made any overtures to my husband and I, which is fine. My qualm with her is that if she worked her steps..where was our amends?
I would not go to one of my nieces or nephews with my recovery time, offer to help, and not even phone the parents? one of which is my sibling? that i havent spoken to in over ten years?
not the amends so much, but an attempt at building bridges should come along with the contact with your daughter.
but, i have an 18 year old daughter and if my oxy addicted sister showed up "saying" she was clean, with out speaking to me, i would hunt her down and hurt her bad.
but, many things happened between us too.
beth
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Originally Posted by keepinon 
My SIL was a raging addict and it literally tore my husbands family apart.
None of the 3 siblings speak to each other.....
my husband didn't speak to his mom and dad for ten years.....
This sounds more like "when codependency meets addiction" in the greater family picture. Codependency can tear a family apart as much, if not more than addiction within the family. The addicted person was not responsible for other people's codependency issues.
She hasn't made any overtures to my husband and I, which is fine.
If this is really fine, you probably would not be holding a serious grudge for being mean and her threat to kill your husband, let alone expecting her to make amends for behavior she may very well not even recall, given she was a "raging addict".
If I recall, your daughter is 18 years old. Could you consider giving her the dignity of making up her own mind, without imposing the family baggage?
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If I recall, your daughter is 18 years old. Could you consider giving her the dignity of making up her own mind, without imposing the family baggage?[/QUOTE]
She is 18 and we have left it up to her.Haven't said a negative word about SIL. Just think its weird that you wouldn't make amends to your immediate family.My AD wrote her dad and I, brother, and grandma letters of apology already. There is NO WAY in he%* she could not know that her behavior affected us if she has been in AA for 12.5 years. Not really super interested in recconecting with SIL at all, but just makes me wonder.
She is 18 and we have left it up to her.Haven't said a negative word about SIL. Just think its weird that you wouldn't make amends to your immediate family.My AD wrote her dad and I, brother, and grandma letters of apology already. There is NO WAY in he%* she could not know that her behavior affected us if she has been in AA for 12.5 years. Not really super interested in recconecting with SIL at all, but just makes me wonder.
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My SIL imposes her standards on people esp us. I have turned the other cheek for years, but this year I refused to hear her bash my husband and my daughter to my face. I refuse to be her middleman and I also told her if she had any problems with my family to tell them to their face and she did. Despite that, her standards for everything which are by her own admission are out of the ballpark were wearing on us and not in a good way. Communication has shut down basically because I refuse to be manipulated and be around all her negativity because she's a princess and things are not up to her standards. I consider her past codependent. I don't know what I call it but I don't want to be around her. I feel sorry for her because she's closing in on 60, lives alone with a cat and has alienated everyone. She hates children and treated my daughter badly. Looking back this is a person that can't live without 2 glasses of wine a day, without fail. Maybe she's not the text definition of an alcoholic but her behaviors are in the same realm.
Some addicts/alcoholics blackout but seem to be functioning bodily just nobody's home. Could be the SIL has no memory of the things she has said or done. I do know in myself I experienced short term memory loss about the first year I was clean. I feel pretty sharp now but it is a part of PAWS. I only used for about 3 years total so I can imagine long term chronic addiction could extend this problem.
I know it's easy to point fingers, and in AA they say that all the time, for every person pointing a finger triple are pointing back. And they also say that all of us sick people that includes addicts, alcoholics and co-dependents are very very good at taking the world's inventory but not our own. I know I was good at seeing everyone else's flaws but my own were harder to see.
Your daughter may or may not benefit from sage advice from your SIL but it is her choice whether or not to listen and who knows it might be something useful. It's hard to let go of things people do that hurt us. I got some resentments towards my SIL that I need to give to God to handle because when I think about it, it eats me alive. Much love to you and I hope your daughter continues to do well Keep. You are doing great too in your recovery.
Some addicts/alcoholics blackout but seem to be functioning bodily just nobody's home. Could be the SIL has no memory of the things she has said or done. I do know in myself I experienced short term memory loss about the first year I was clean. I feel pretty sharp now but it is a part of PAWS. I only used for about 3 years total so I can imagine long term chronic addiction could extend this problem.
I know it's easy to point fingers, and in AA they say that all the time, for every person pointing a finger triple are pointing back. And they also say that all of us sick people that includes addicts, alcoholics and co-dependents are very very good at taking the world's inventory but not our own. I know I was good at seeing everyone else's flaws but my own were harder to see.
Your daughter may or may not benefit from sage advice from your SIL but it is her choice whether or not to listen and who knows it might be something useful. It's hard to let go of things people do that hurt us. I got some resentments towards my SIL that I need to give to God to handle because when I think about it, it eats me alive. Much love to you and I hope your daughter continues to do well Keep. You are doing great too in your recovery.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
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I too have waited for amends that never came, and I understand the disappointment.
What helped me is my own forgiveness. Forgiveness is more about us than the person we are forgiving, it means that we let go of the pain attached to whatever we forgive. Doesn't mean we put ourselves back in harms way, it just means that we let go of the resentment and stop letting it eat us alive.
If your daughter is willing to listen to anyone in recovery, I think it's a good sign.
Hugs
What helped me is my own forgiveness. Forgiveness is more about us than the person we are forgiving, it means that we let go of the pain attached to whatever we forgive. Doesn't mean we put ourselves back in harms way, it just means that we let go of the resentment and stop letting it eat us alive.
If your daughter is willing to listen to anyone in recovery, I think it's a good sign.
Hugs
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Thanks guys...One of my best friends brother has been in AA 20 years and has never made an amends to her.It has caused a huge rift in their family so I suspect this isn't totally uncommon. I have forgiven my SIL thru watching my AD struggle..they are alike in many ways (totally tough on the outside/broken on the inside).I also got to learn what NOT to do from my husbands parents..ignore it, deny it, side with the addict until your kids can't stand you or anyone else in their family, never get help, keep it a secret,bail them out of jail,rinse repeat.I am grateful for that. I have sympathy for them as the parent of an addict, but they really blew it and haven't changed one bit..no interest in restarting anything there either.
Meditation..thank you for your kind words.You rock.
Meditation..thank you for your kind words.You rock.
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I've also waited for amends that have never come. What I have to remember is that when a person is working the 9th step that sponsors frequently tell sponsees to make three lists....the amends they are ready to make, the amends that they are not ready to make yet, and the living amends.
Until I started making my own lists I didn't realize how complicated it could become. Just because I think that I am entitled to amends doesn't mean that the other person shares my beliefs. What is an amend? The technical answer is an amend is a change. An amend is not an apology. It is a clear and purposeful act designed to clear up a problem from the past.
Once I realized that an amend is not an apology it all began to make a lot more sense to me. You can have an apology along with an amend but the two are not necessarily synonomous. A sponsee and a sponsor work together to determine what is best in each situation. I always have to remember that they are not asking me what I think.
When I have made an amends I try and apologize but also ask "what do you need from me to make this right".
I agree with the 3 fingers pointing back at me when I start pointing my finger at what I think someone else should do - that's the exact moment that I know that I need to start looking around at who I need to make an amends to and NOT who needs to make one to me.
Until I started making my own lists I didn't realize how complicated it could become. Just because I think that I am entitled to amends doesn't mean that the other person shares my beliefs. What is an amend? The technical answer is an amend is a change. An amend is not an apology. It is a clear and purposeful act designed to clear up a problem from the past.
Once I realized that an amend is not an apology it all began to make a lot more sense to me. You can have an apology along with an amend but the two are not necessarily synonomous. A sponsee and a sponsor work together to determine what is best in each situation. I always have to remember that they are not asking me what I think.
When I have made an amends I try and apologize but also ask "what do you need from me to make this right".
I agree with the 3 fingers pointing back at me when I start pointing my finger at what I think someone else should do - that's the exact moment that I know that I need to start looking around at who I need to make an amends to and NOT who needs to make one to me.
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Lightseeker that is so true. I am making amends to my family by staying clean and doing what I can do to get back into my profession as a nurse SO I can financially take care of my family.I can't replace the time I wasn't here for my family and the years I wasn't working, but I can work each day to step forward to be here for them in every way.
My amends to my profession is fairly close to the same thing, I keep on being the best I can be that is staying clean and doing the right thing. One day I want to volunteer my nursing services to the Red Cross so I can help people and not just for the pay but to actually feel like I am giving back. I can't do that yet till I have all my i's and t's dotted and crossed but one day that amend will be met.
Anybody I suppose could say they are sorry but it's the leg work/behavior change/footwork that makes the difference.
My amends to my profession is fairly close to the same thing, I keep on being the best I can be that is staying clean and doing the right thing. One day I want to volunteer my nursing services to the Red Cross so I can help people and not just for the pay but to actually feel like I am giving back. I can't do that yet till I have all my i's and t's dotted and crossed but one day that amend will be met.
Anybody I suppose could say they are sorry but it's the leg work/behavior change/footwork that makes the difference.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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When I made my amends to my family especially, early in my recovery, I said to them:
"I am truly sorry for what I have caused you and the things I have done. I know you don't believe me now, and that is okay with me. However, I do believe as the months and years go on and you SEE the changes in me and in my life you will understand how sincere I am."
And, of course, I have 29+ years now, and had many 'good' years with my folks before their individual passings.
I do believe, MY ACTIONS, are the best amends I can make.
Maybe, just maybe, the 'actions' of your SIL in regards to your daughter and her over 12 years sober and clean are her amends.
Have you 'forgiven' her yet for your own peace and serenity?
J M H O
Love and hugs,
"I am truly sorry for what I have caused you and the things I have done. I know you don't believe me now, and that is okay with me. However, I do believe as the months and years go on and you SEE the changes in me and in my life you will understand how sincere I am."
And, of course, I have 29+ years now, and had many 'good' years with my folks before their individual passings.
I do believe, MY ACTIONS, are the best amends I can make.
Maybe, just maybe, the 'actions' of your SIL in regards to your daughter and her over 12 years sober and clean are her amends.
Have you 'forgiven' her yet for your own peace and serenity?
J M H O
Love and hugs,
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I love Laurie's response.
I experienced a serious falling out with one of my brothers several years ago. He was a partner in my business. What he did (which I won't go into) nearly caused the business to go under (along with everything we own). It was an extremely difficult time. My brother and I didn't speak for over five years.
And then our father was killed in an accident (the small aircraft he was piloting fell from the sky--he was killed instantly on impact).
The grief we experienced for a man whom we both loved brought us together.
My brother has never apologized for what he did......and he doesn't have to. I had already forgiven him and let go of the emotions attached to what happened. The past is just that and cannot be changed. Today my brother and I watch over and take care of our mother. He is so very good to her. I love him for that. And that, for me, is a good enough amends.
Amends doesn't necessarily involve an apology. Sometimes it is action and a change in behavior. Sometimes it happens slowly. Sometimes it doesn't look like we think it should look. But the amends we expect is not ours to make.....and, for me, I had to accept the amends in the way it was made. Did it look like an amends that I would have made.....maybe not......but since I had already forgiven, it didn't matter what it looked like.
gentle hugs
I experienced a serious falling out with one of my brothers several years ago. He was a partner in my business. What he did (which I won't go into) nearly caused the business to go under (along with everything we own). It was an extremely difficult time. My brother and I didn't speak for over five years.
And then our father was killed in an accident (the small aircraft he was piloting fell from the sky--he was killed instantly on impact).
The grief we experienced for a man whom we both loved brought us together.
My brother has never apologized for what he did......and he doesn't have to. I had already forgiven him and let go of the emotions attached to what happened. The past is just that and cannot be changed. Today my brother and I watch over and take care of our mother. He is so very good to her. I love him for that. And that, for me, is a good enough amends.
Amends doesn't necessarily involve an apology. Sometimes it is action and a change in behavior. Sometimes it happens slowly. Sometimes it doesn't look like we think it should look. But the amends we expect is not ours to make.....and, for me, I had to accept the amends in the way it was made. Did it look like an amends that I would have made.....maybe not......but since I had already forgiven, it didn't matter what it looked like.
gentle hugs
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Originally Posted by meditation
Maybe she's not the text definition of an alcoholic but her behaviors are in the same realm.
Alcoholism and addiction are symptoms, not root causes.
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Out to Lunch- I gave plenty of power to drugs thinking it was innocent. I don't think you can underestimate how insidious it can sneak up on a person. I was the staunch upright citizen that got swept away by that power. I know in my heart my SIL is an alcoholic just by going to the liquour store with her for her one weekly routine trip. I could have paid my house payment with her booze bill but yet she's not lost her job or her health just her family.
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I am seeing the differnce between an amends and an apology.Thanks for that. I did say earlier that I forgive her. For me, I guess I do expect an apology for the things she did and said. It's funny...I am not all caught up in drama about this, I really don't even care about her.Nothing would have ever come up if she hadn't contacted my daughter.I'm more curious than anything.
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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Maybye it has to do with step 9.
"Made direct ammends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others."
My sister is a recovered addict who hurt many people greatly in many ways. She has told me often that she was afraid to make ammends directly because she didn't want them to relive the hurt she caused and feared it would hurt her sobriety and serenity to do so. Instead she practices living ammends wherever possible. In that instance I think she felt she would have been injured more with making direct ammends.
It is hurtful. When someone has hurt you that badly and doesn't even say "I'm sorry". I am going through that with my ex. I just tell myself not to expect it and live the best I can. Then I try to put it out of my mind because it's not worth losing my serenity.
Hope I am making sense.
Teggie
"Made direct ammends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others."
My sister is a recovered addict who hurt many people greatly in many ways. She has told me often that she was afraid to make ammends directly because she didn't want them to relive the hurt she caused and feared it would hurt her sobriety and serenity to do so. Instead she practices living ammends wherever possible. In that instance I think she felt she would have been injured more with making direct ammends.
It is hurtful. When someone has hurt you that badly and doesn't even say "I'm sorry". I am going through that with my ex. I just tell myself not to expect it and live the best I can. Then I try to put it out of my mind because it's not worth losing my serenity.
Hope I am making sense.
Teggie
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