Feeling like a doormat
Feeling like a doormat
I'm still struggling. I'm still afraid of him. I feel like I'm still letting him walk all over me and what's worse is this time I didn't fight as much as I think I should have for our son.
Updated background: We had a court hearing several weeks ago for interim custody. Until the final divorce hearing, the court awarded me sole legal custody (interim) and mandated that DS's visits with his father, STBXAH, be supervised by my SIL or FIL (I suggested supervisors). Since the supervisors are family, visits are still every other weekend Sat AM to Sunday PM; the judge made a point of telling STBX that that was incredibly generous and supervised visits are usually only a couple hours. The only contact between me and STBX is to be by e-mail and only about DS. My lawyer suggested trying to discuss weekend arrangements with SIL rather than STBX. This weekend is his 2nd supervised weekend.
I got a call from DS's school Friday afternoon, to let me know son was complaining of a headache and didn't eat his lunch, so I left work and picked him up and took him home. He was running a 100.7 temperature and didn't complain about laying down.
I sent an e-mail to my SIL, FIL and STBXAH to tell them that DS is sick (and forward specific info that he's home from school with temperature), but didn't cancel the weekend or offer a switch. STBXAH e-mailed back that he hopes son feels better and to let him know if he does and then he'll pick him up - does not copy any one else. Fast forward a couple hours, he e-mails back, still not copying his sister or father, and orders me to have son ready at 9 am, he will pick him up and he has 'everything' he may need.
Today, DS is still running a temperature, but ate breakfast and wanted to hold the cats.
At pick up today, I try to tell him that son still has a temperature of 100.1 and was given tylenol at 8 am; STBX interrupts and tells me that he has everything then asks 'what, at 8?' I confirm tylenol at 8 and he interrupts again that he has 'everything'. I then ask where FIL is. "He's in the car. You don't need to see him." When I tried to say yes, I do and my lawyer said I can ask to see SIL or FIL at pick up, he said "He's in the car. He's 80 years old. He's not getting out. If you want to see him, you go out." My father (who was there to help with DS's pick up) said he'd go out and say hi. (Yes, FIL was in the car.) I then make the mistake of trying to tell STBX that the clothes I'm returning to him from their last weekend are too small and he interrupts and says that's fine, he's bought him new everything.
So, I'm beating myself up for not just telling STBX that DS is too sick to go and that we can switch weekends. For letting him order me around and interrupt me and for getting mad about how he was talking to me in front of our son. He had planned to go camping (in an RV) and fishing with DS and FIL this weekend and I'm certain they'll go any way and that I can be found negligent for letting DS go with them knowing he had a temperature, even if I told STBX, and that it'll be construed as I thought it was a good idea because I gave them DS's lifejacket just in case they do go fishing. I'm beating myself up for even trying to relay information about the clothes being too small and that just because I'd want to know, doesn't mean STBX wants to be told.... and I should have done it by e-mail or not at all... I'm now afraid that allowing FIL as supervisor may not be the wisest choice.....
I don't know. I know I'm awfulizing. I'm trying to have and send out good thoughts. I really need a hug.
Updated background: We had a court hearing several weeks ago for interim custody. Until the final divorce hearing, the court awarded me sole legal custody (interim) and mandated that DS's visits with his father, STBXAH, be supervised by my SIL or FIL (I suggested supervisors). Since the supervisors are family, visits are still every other weekend Sat AM to Sunday PM; the judge made a point of telling STBX that that was incredibly generous and supervised visits are usually only a couple hours. The only contact between me and STBX is to be by e-mail and only about DS. My lawyer suggested trying to discuss weekend arrangements with SIL rather than STBX. This weekend is his 2nd supervised weekend.
I got a call from DS's school Friday afternoon, to let me know son was complaining of a headache and didn't eat his lunch, so I left work and picked him up and took him home. He was running a 100.7 temperature and didn't complain about laying down.
I sent an e-mail to my SIL, FIL and STBXAH to tell them that DS is sick (and forward specific info that he's home from school with temperature), but didn't cancel the weekend or offer a switch. STBXAH e-mailed back that he hopes son feels better and to let him know if he does and then he'll pick him up - does not copy any one else. Fast forward a couple hours, he e-mails back, still not copying his sister or father, and orders me to have son ready at 9 am, he will pick him up and he has 'everything' he may need.
Today, DS is still running a temperature, but ate breakfast and wanted to hold the cats.
At pick up today, I try to tell him that son still has a temperature of 100.1 and was given tylenol at 8 am; STBX interrupts and tells me that he has everything then asks 'what, at 8?' I confirm tylenol at 8 and he interrupts again that he has 'everything'. I then ask where FIL is. "He's in the car. You don't need to see him." When I tried to say yes, I do and my lawyer said I can ask to see SIL or FIL at pick up, he said "He's in the car. He's 80 years old. He's not getting out. If you want to see him, you go out." My father (who was there to help with DS's pick up) said he'd go out and say hi. (Yes, FIL was in the car.) I then make the mistake of trying to tell STBX that the clothes I'm returning to him from their last weekend are too small and he interrupts and says that's fine, he's bought him new everything.
So, I'm beating myself up for not just telling STBX that DS is too sick to go and that we can switch weekends. For letting him order me around and interrupt me and for getting mad about how he was talking to me in front of our son. He had planned to go camping (in an RV) and fishing with DS and FIL this weekend and I'm certain they'll go any way and that I can be found negligent for letting DS go with them knowing he had a temperature, even if I told STBX, and that it'll be construed as I thought it was a good idea because I gave them DS's lifejacket just in case they do go fishing. I'm beating myself up for even trying to relay information about the clothes being too small and that just because I'd want to know, doesn't mean STBX wants to be told.... and I should have done it by e-mail or not at all... I'm now afraid that allowing FIL as supervisor may not be the wisest choice.....
I don't know. I know I'm awfulizing. I'm trying to have and send out good thoughts. I really need a hug.
:ghug3
Take a deep breath. Then take another one. Take care and be kind to yourself! It will take time for you to learn how to be around your X. You've learned something now. Remember its all about progress not perfection so please stop giving yourself a hard time about what you 'should' have done!
Take a deep breath. Then take another one. Take care and be kind to yourself! It will take time for you to learn how to be around your X. You've learned something now. Remember its all about progress not perfection so please stop giving yourself a hard time about what you 'should' have done!
Why is it so hard to catch, stop and offset the negative self talk? I am so tired of hearing it and so tired of the influence I still let him have over my feelings.
His continuing to be the one who comes to the door at each pick up and how he acts feels so... negative, familiar... abusive. Does that make sense? I feel so scared at the time, sick to my stomach. Then hours after he's left, I start to minimize it or even denying it: It's just him walking to the door instead of his sister or father, it's just him being rude, it's just that he acted that way because I tried to tell him something about DS.
His continuing to be the one who comes to the door at each pick up and how he acts feels so... negative, familiar... abusive. Does that make sense? I feel so scared at the time, sick to my stomach. Then hours after he's left, I start to minimize it or even denying it: It's just him walking to the door instead of his sister or father, it's just him being rude, it's just that he acted that way because I tried to tell him something about DS.
I still fall into the negative self talk trap. Its a really bad habit to break - one I've indulged in for many, many years. Being so self aware all the time is really hard! Sometimes, just saying out loud what I'm thinking helps me realise just how harsh I'm being to myself. I would never say these things to anyone else, why do I say them to myself?! Self love really is tough...
:ghug3
:ghug3
negative self-talk is really ahrd for me to stop. It does get better with practice, and this is a new, unfamilar relationship you are navigating with him.
I also have trouble not taking on the feelings of others, if I do something and stbx AH takes it the wrong way or doesn't like it or acts affronted, well that really is his problem. Would it be easier for me if I never had to have anything to do with him again? YES. not going to happen though as we have kids together.
I have learned to accept that he will take things the wrong way, the clothes thing for example, you were trying to be helpful, it was something you would want to know, he heard it as critisism: lesson learned, you won't bother again, but PLEASE don't take it to heart.
I have learned to accept that he will be rude, I don't let that rudeness affect my feelings anymore, it is his issue. Can you have someone else hand over your children? you said that your dad was there? can you make it so you are not the one who has to talk to him?
I have boundaries in place regarding what state stbxah has to be in to have the children. He HATES those boundaries, he needles and snipes and gripes and whines about them, he probably always will. Expecting that he will be pleasant and welcoming of them gets me no-where. His behaviour is often rude and childish, that's the way he reacts, me putting boundaries in place won't change that, the only way for me to chnage that is to limit my exposure to it.
I have thought about tackling him on his behaviour towards me in front of our children, but honestly, it will just be another opportunity for him to behave badly (in our case) it won't change anything. So the only way I can see of not exposing the kids to him being disrespectful, is for them to see us together as little as possible. I am considering finding a stock phrase that allows them to see that I will not put up with disrepect, but won't increase their anxiety. It may be though that the best way of tackling this is letting them see the natural consequences of his behaviour, that when asked why daddy isn't my friend, I say that we don't get on very well, and I only want people who are friendly and respectful as my friends (but that doesn't stop them loving him and being his friend): I think that is a valuble life lesson in the long run. Opportunities like that do arise and I am working on ways of being honest about my motives to my children, in a way that is age appropriate, and allows their feelings for their father to be seperate from mine (concentrating on my feelings rather than his actions and not critisising him).
FIL is the court agreed supervisor, god forbid anything should happen, but he and your ex would be culpable, not you. You are doing fabulously, it is hard enough in a seperation to negotiate these things, without the added dimension that addiction brings.
I also have trouble not taking on the feelings of others, if I do something and stbx AH takes it the wrong way or doesn't like it or acts affronted, well that really is his problem. Would it be easier for me if I never had to have anything to do with him again? YES. not going to happen though as we have kids together.
I have learned to accept that he will take things the wrong way, the clothes thing for example, you were trying to be helpful, it was something you would want to know, he heard it as critisism: lesson learned, you won't bother again, but PLEASE don't take it to heart.
I have learned to accept that he will be rude, I don't let that rudeness affect my feelings anymore, it is his issue. Can you have someone else hand over your children? you said that your dad was there? can you make it so you are not the one who has to talk to him?
I have boundaries in place regarding what state stbxah has to be in to have the children. He HATES those boundaries, he needles and snipes and gripes and whines about them, he probably always will. Expecting that he will be pleasant and welcoming of them gets me no-where. His behaviour is often rude and childish, that's the way he reacts, me putting boundaries in place won't change that, the only way for me to chnage that is to limit my exposure to it.
I have thought about tackling him on his behaviour towards me in front of our children, but honestly, it will just be another opportunity for him to behave badly (in our case) it won't change anything. So the only way I can see of not exposing the kids to him being disrespectful, is for them to see us together as little as possible. I am considering finding a stock phrase that allows them to see that I will not put up with disrepect, but won't increase their anxiety. It may be though that the best way of tackling this is letting them see the natural consequences of his behaviour, that when asked why daddy isn't my friend, I say that we don't get on very well, and I only want people who are friendly and respectful as my friends (but that doesn't stop them loving him and being his friend): I think that is a valuble life lesson in the long run. Opportunities like that do arise and I am working on ways of being honest about my motives to my children, in a way that is age appropriate, and allows their feelings for their father to be seperate from mine (concentrating on my feelings rather than his actions and not critisising him).
FIL is the court agreed supervisor, god forbid anything should happen, but he and your ex would be culpable, not you. You are doing fabulously, it is hard enough in a seperation to negotiate these things, without the added dimension that addiction brings.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Why is it so hard to catch, stop and offset the negative self talk?
The first step is to become aware of what you are doing, which it sounds like you have. The second step for me is overpowering the negative self-talk. Many times in the past, I have had to actually talk to myself out loud, and even at a high volume, to re-train my thoughts to positive lines of thinking. That may sound extreme but it works for me. This can be difficult when you live with or are surrounded by negative and/or toxic people (IMO ALL people who are negative are toxic).
I am so tired of hearing it and so tired of the influence I still let him have over my feelings.
His continuing to be the one who comes to the door at each pick up and how he acts feels so... negative, familiar... abusive. Does that make sense? I feel so scared at the time, sick to my stomach. Then hours after he's left, I start to minimize it or even denying it: It's just him walking to the door instead of his sister or father, it's just him being rude, it's just that he acted that way because I tried to tell him something about DS.
You're doing great! (((hugs)))
Many times in the past, I have had to actually talk to myself out loud, and even at a high volume, to re-train my thoughts to positive lines of thinking.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
OK, I'll admit this funny one: At times when I have been overwhelmed with obtrusive, negative, guilty self-talk I would make up words to songs to a familiar tune as I go along and sing them loudly out loud Strangely, I have only had to do this when I have had active alcoholics or addicts in my life, hmmmm.....??? For some reason, I tend to be more obsessive over problems and negative stuff in the morning. So, can you see me getting ready for work, in the shower, or getting dressed, or walking around the house, having my cup of tea, and driving to work, SMILING and happy, singing out loud some weird, made-up song? I would also sing happily whatever I wanted to say to the alcoholic.
Silly, but effective for me
Silly, but effective for me
I'm still struggling. I'm still afraid of him. I feel like I'm still letting him walk all over me and what's worse is this time I didn't fight as much as I think I should have for our son.
Updated background: We had a court hearing several weeks ago for interim custody. Until the final divorce hearing, the court awarded me sole legal custody (interim) and mandated that DS's visits with his father, STBXAH, be supervised by my SIL or FIL (I suggested supervisors). Since the supervisors are family, visits are still every other weekend Sat AM to Sunday PM; the judge made a point of telling STBX that that was incredibly generous and supervised visits are usually only a couple hours. The only contact between me and STBX is to be by e-mail and only about DS. My lawyer suggested trying to discuss weekend arrangements with SIL rather than STBX. This weekend is his 2nd supervised weekend.
I got a call from DS's school Friday afternoon, to let me know son was complaining of a headache and didn't eat his lunch, so I left work and picked him up and took him home. He was running a 100.7 temperature and didn't complain about laying down.
I sent an e-mail to my SIL, FIL and STBXAH to tell them that DS is sick (and forward specific info that he's home from school with temperature), but didn't cancel the weekend or offer a switch. STBXAH e-mailed back that he hopes son feels better and to let him know if he does and then he'll pick him up - does not copy any one else. Fast forward a couple hours, he e-mails back, still not copying his sister or father, and orders me to have son ready at 9 am, he will pick him up and he has 'everything' he may need.
Today, DS is still running a temperature, but ate breakfast and wanted to hold the cats.
At pick up today, I try to tell him that son still has a temperature of 100.1 and was given tylenol at 8 am; STBX interrupts and tells me that he has everything then asks 'what, at 8?' I confirm tylenol at 8 and he interrupts again that he has 'everything'. I then ask where FIL is. "He's in the car. You don't need to see him." When I tried to say yes, I do and my lawyer said I can ask to see SIL or FIL at pick up, he said "He's in the car. He's 80 years old. He's not getting out. If you want to see him, you go out." My father (who was there to help with DS's pick up) said he'd go out and say hi. (Yes, FIL was in the car.) I then make the mistake of trying to tell STBX that the clothes I'm returning to him from their last weekend are too small and he interrupts and says that's fine, he's bought him new everything.
So, I'm beating myself up for not just telling STBX that DS is too sick to go and that we can switch weekends. For letting him order me around and interrupt me and for getting mad about how he was talking to me in front of our son. He had planned to go camping (in an RV) and fishing with DS and FIL this weekend and I'm certain they'll go any way and that I can be found negligent for letting DS go with them knowing he had a temperature, even if I told STBX, and that it'll be construed as I thought it was a good idea because I gave them DS's lifejacket just in case they do go fishing. I'm beating myself up for even trying to relay information about the clothes being too small and that just because I'd want to know, doesn't mean STBX wants to be told.... and I should have done it by e-mail or not at all... I'm now afraid that allowing FIL as supervisor may not be the wisest choice.....
I don't know. I know I'm awfulizing. I'm trying to have and send out good thoughts. I really need a hug.
Updated background: We had a court hearing several weeks ago for interim custody. Until the final divorce hearing, the court awarded me sole legal custody (interim) and mandated that DS's visits with his father, STBXAH, be supervised by my SIL or FIL (I suggested supervisors). Since the supervisors are family, visits are still every other weekend Sat AM to Sunday PM; the judge made a point of telling STBX that that was incredibly generous and supervised visits are usually only a couple hours. The only contact between me and STBX is to be by e-mail and only about DS. My lawyer suggested trying to discuss weekend arrangements with SIL rather than STBX. This weekend is his 2nd supervised weekend.
I got a call from DS's school Friday afternoon, to let me know son was complaining of a headache and didn't eat his lunch, so I left work and picked him up and took him home. He was running a 100.7 temperature and didn't complain about laying down.
I sent an e-mail to my SIL, FIL and STBXAH to tell them that DS is sick (and forward specific info that he's home from school with temperature), but didn't cancel the weekend or offer a switch. STBXAH e-mailed back that he hopes son feels better and to let him know if he does and then he'll pick him up - does not copy any one else. Fast forward a couple hours, he e-mails back, still not copying his sister or father, and orders me to have son ready at 9 am, he will pick him up and he has 'everything' he may need.
Today, DS is still running a temperature, but ate breakfast and wanted to hold the cats.
At pick up today, I try to tell him that son still has a temperature of 100.1 and was given tylenol at 8 am; STBX interrupts and tells me that he has everything then asks 'what, at 8?' I confirm tylenol at 8 and he interrupts again that he has 'everything'. I then ask where FIL is. "He's in the car. You don't need to see him." When I tried to say yes, I do and my lawyer said I can ask to see SIL or FIL at pick up, he said "He's in the car. He's 80 years old. He's not getting out. If you want to see him, you go out." My father (who was there to help with DS's pick up) said he'd go out and say hi. (Yes, FIL was in the car.) I then make the mistake of trying to tell STBX that the clothes I'm returning to him from their last weekend are too small and he interrupts and says that's fine, he's bought him new everything.
So, I'm beating myself up for not just telling STBX that DS is too sick to go and that we can switch weekends. For letting him order me around and interrupt me and for getting mad about how he was talking to me in front of our son. He had planned to go camping (in an RV) and fishing with DS and FIL this weekend and I'm certain they'll go any way and that I can be found negligent for letting DS go with them knowing he had a temperature, even if I told STBX, and that it'll be construed as I thought it was a good idea because I gave them DS's lifejacket just in case they do go fishing. I'm beating myself up for even trying to relay information about the clothes being too small and that just because I'd want to know, doesn't mean STBX wants to be told.... and I should have done it by e-mail or not at all... I'm now afraid that allowing FIL as supervisor may not be the wisest choice.....
I don't know. I know I'm awfulizing. I'm trying to have and send out good thoughts. I really need a hug.
Have patience and get stronger with each day. You are the winner.
Thanks everyone. A lot of good information and I'll probably be coming back to ask more as I digest it. My family has offered to always have some one go with me during pick up or drop off of DS for his visits with his father, so I can, need to and will try to have them relay any information.
How can I tell the difference? I'm sorry if that's a stupid question, but I honestly am not sure I can tell.
The only time I've had to see him recently are at the beginning/end of his visits with DS - or at the couple court dates related to divorce and DV protective order. By mutual no contact order through the court (which I agreed to in exchange for dropping my request for a DV protective order), we only communicate by e-mail about DS. While no where near as intense and long lasting as when I have to see him, I get anxious when ever I see an e-mail in my inbox from STBXAH. One of the first things I do is scan it to see if he's copied any one (his sister or father). Generally, the e-mails that some one else will read are more.... polite. Unfortunately, at least according to the first lawyer I spoke to, STBXAH's other e-mails, while rude and proving he's an a--hole, do not constitute continued abuse. Not sure I agree with that, but I do acknowledge that the courts have to follow certain limits for proof of DV.
At the interim custody hearing, STBXAH asked the judge about being able to attend the recent meet/greet at DS's school or other school events. I'm sure it was the benefit of the court (because he never has gone before even though I always forwarded schedules and info), but I felt panicky before the last parent meeting and only relaxed when it became apparent he wasn't going to show for it.
I did freeze when I saw him at the courthouse - came out of the elevator and saw him sitting by the window outside the court room and I froze, literally mid-sentence to my lawyer. However, my mom and dad were just down the hallway and I was able to get a hug from them and ignore STBX. Friends were in the courtroom along with my lawyer, the judge, court assistant (not sure what her title is - records everything) not to mention the security guards and police downstairs.... So I was still uneasy in his presence, but not scared.
Are these gut feelings? Trust them. Do not second-guess your instincts. It took me a long time to teach myself this. Write yourself reminder notes: "Trust your instincts." Do you only get this feeling when he is picking up the child, or do you get this feeling ANY time you have to speak to the STBXAH? There is a big difference between the feelings that come from WITHIN you and the feelings that come from your environment.
The only time I've had to see him recently are at the beginning/end of his visits with DS - or at the couple court dates related to divorce and DV protective order. By mutual no contact order through the court (which I agreed to in exchange for dropping my request for a DV protective order), we only communicate by e-mail about DS. While no where near as intense and long lasting as when I have to see him, I get anxious when ever I see an e-mail in my inbox from STBXAH. One of the first things I do is scan it to see if he's copied any one (his sister or father). Generally, the e-mails that some one else will read are more.... polite. Unfortunately, at least according to the first lawyer I spoke to, STBXAH's other e-mails, while rude and proving he's an a--hole, do not constitute continued abuse. Not sure I agree with that, but I do acknowledge that the courts have to follow certain limits for proof of DV.
At the interim custody hearing, STBXAH asked the judge about being able to attend the recent meet/greet at DS's school or other school events. I'm sure it was the benefit of the court (because he never has gone before even though I always forwarded schedules and info), but I felt panicky before the last parent meeting and only relaxed when it became apparent he wasn't going to show for it.
I did freeze when I saw him at the courthouse - came out of the elevator and saw him sitting by the window outside the court room and I froze, literally mid-sentence to my lawyer. However, my mom and dad were just down the hallway and I was able to get a hug from them and ignore STBX. Friends were in the courtroom along with my lawyer, the judge, court assistant (not sure what her title is - records everything) not to mention the security guards and police downstairs.... So I was still uneasy in his presence, but not scared.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 602
Just wanted to offer hugs and reassurance. You'll get through this. I think it will take some time before you actually *feel* brave but you are *acting* brave already.
And the thing about whether or not a fear is a phantom fear or a response to an actual threat? That's a hard one to answer. Forgive me for sounding platitudinous, but if you feel fear, it's real to you, and you deserve to feel safe. So if there are things you can put in place (like having a friend nearby whenever you must encounter STBX, or even having a cell phone in your hand with 911 on speed-dial), go ahead and do them. Don't worry about whether they seem silly or unneeded. It's about you and making you feel safe.
And the thing about whether or not a fear is a phantom fear or a response to an actual threat? That's a hard one to answer. Forgive me for sounding platitudinous, but if you feel fear, it's real to you, and you deserve to feel safe. So if there are things you can put in place (like having a friend nearby whenever you must encounter STBX, or even having a cell phone in your hand with 911 on speed-dial), go ahead and do them. Don't worry about whether they seem silly or unneeded. It's about you and making you feel safe.
He has never hit me. He 'just' emotionally abused me and he would use his height and weight to intimidate and threaten me; he 'just' used to coerce or force sex. His unpredictability was getting worse before I left; it got worse when he went into a 28-day inpatient program and refused to do any of the follow up care; everything I said made him mad. Even though he has never hit me, I am afraid of him physically harming me. I'm afraid that one day he will decide that it's no longer 'worth' it to just threaten and to walk away.
I should add that he hasn't overtly threatened me since he was given notice that I tried to get a restraining order against him. He is currently just using the same abusive 'communication' methods as when we lived together. Taken alone, no one would ever call his e-mails (or previously text messages or voice mail messages) abusive, just rude and mean.
I am really starting to think there is something wrong with me. I just had to send an e-mail to STBXAH asking if he was going to drop of DS or where I should pick him up - copied SIL and FIL. I am anxious that I've written something to tick him off - that I shouldn't have - when I know I have every right to know that information and really should have known it before he took DS. My hands are shaking like they would after fights with him, I'm cold and I'm having a hard time not crying.
Taking a deep breath. Another.... I recognize that thinking something is wrong with me is negative thinking...
It gets easier than this, right? It stops being so panic-inducing, right?
Taking a deep breath. Another.... I recognize that thinking something is wrong with me is negative thinking...
It gets easier than this, right? It stops being so panic-inducing, right?
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