wpainterw

I'm not sure where to post this thread so I'm posting it here. What I have in mind is asking this question: First let me say who I am. I'm 83 years of age, have nearly 22 years sobriety (as of next month), am a retired professional with few financial worries, a relatively stable family (both sons living miles and miles away) a stable marriage, everything to be thankful for. But retiring isn't easy under even these circumstances. Many of my close friends have died, some are so ill that I can't communicate with them anymore, others have moved away. Most of my time is spent reading, looking at old movies on TV, talking with my wife (after 55 years the conversation tends to get a little repetitive and let's face it, time has changed us, neither of us are the persons we were 55 years ago, in some ways better, in other ways a little peculiar.) We've got a little dog who understands but there's a limit to what this little guy can do. I do some part time teaching for senior citizens, write a few historical pieces, keep myself busy. I have back pains- but who doesn't at this age!
So my question is this. When I go into the stores I see vast quantities of booze, lots of it sold in gallon jugs. One liquor store seems the size of a small football field. The weather gets bad here in the winter time. I'm convinced that there is a lot of drinking in these parts and that many elderly retired folks do a lot of drnking in their homes. But I run into so few at AA meetings. Most of the folks I see at AA meetings are younger and are still working. What's with these older folks? Why do they seem to isolate themselves? Do they have a lot of denial?
As for me, I know one thing. I'm convinced of it. That is, if I were still drinking I'd be dead by this time, after 13 years of retirement. Might there be some way of getting this message out to elderly retired folk who might have drinking problems and, for one reason or another are reluctant to try AA, perhaps too proud? too scared? (e.g."We can handle it. We're not the sort of folks to be seen at AA meetings", etc.
Is this the right place to put this thread? Any thoughts from the forum leader, administrator, etc.?

W.PainterW

Ghostly

Hey painter. Wow! You are inspiring. Thank you for sharing.

If you're looking to get the word out at a local level you may want to try senior centers. Or government bodies usually have agencies that deal with elder issues. Maybe you can contact them and give them info to at least have on hand for people looking for help.

If you're looking to get something out beyond locally maybe a publication like something AARP puts out?

What you're looking to do is admirable. Good luck and I would be interested on any progress you have.

CarolD

My home group is very gracious to our Senior Citizens

They make sure I have rides anytime I call for one.

We have 9 active members over 70 with various years of recovery.
I see at least 2 others at each meeting I attend.

You probably know....AA does have a pamplet for seniors.
I took a handfull out to our Senior Center...after asking
for permission. I added my phone number and never
had a call. Most stayed on the bookcase we use
for magazines. I was disappointed.

I'm active at the Center...make no secret of my AA
recovery. The only time anyone asked me questions
was concerning their family members.

If you can figure out how to attract new members
who are elders......I'd be interested in knowing.

Did we not discuss this before William?
Perhaps not but it sure rings a bell with me

firestorm090

Hi painter,

I live near several retirees and they seem to only come out at night for Friday night bingo, so you may try having a bingo game after the AA meeting, lol.

Seriously, I've often wondered how people can stay couped up all day and night, it seems like a waste of retirement years, but many have little money to go out much, and have no family near, so they isolate. It's sad, but all to often true, they retire and feel life is over, and they just exist till the grim reaper comes a callin'. It would be great to explore options that would draw people out of their shells to get involved in life again.

Hopefully others will have some good suggestions to consider and implement.

luckedog

Just want to say thank you for being honest with us here at SR. We need to know that folks like you have made it. My mom and dad are 86 & 87 and never drank that I know of. They are having a very difficult time of making it. No major health problems, Just AGE! My wife and I are here for them, and glad we are here are and able to help them! She is 62 and I am 59! We consider it a privilege to be here for them and I know they won’t be here much longer, but we are counting every day a blessing.

wpainterw

Thanks. These are interesting and helpful suggestions. I hope that there may be further responses and ideas. My initial reaction is to contact the local AA central office to get their reaction and also possibly set up an AA group especially for seniors.
Even I were successful in doing this my basic concern might well continue. It is this. From that I have seen in attending AA meetings, there are very very few new members (i.e. those who say they are just starting to try to give up drinking and get into recovery) who are also retired and almost never do I encounter a person in this category who appears to be in the upper income brackets. I suspect that persons of this description are very very hesitant to get involved with AA, possibly out of a fear that word of their involvement would somehow "get out" and damage them socially. This is my hypothesis. Could it be correct? The seniors I do encounter at AA meetings tend to be AA "old timers" with very impressive track records of sobriety. They often take a leadership role in chairing meetings and quite a few say that they attend meetings every day. These are folks who seem quite able to take care of their own sobriety. The folks who worry me are those who may remain isolated, buying a gallon or so of Scotch, Bourbon or Vodka weekly at the local liquor store and spending most of their time sitting in front of the TV set.
If I am correct in my suppositions, there may be a significant number of persons out there who are (1) retired, (2) lonely, (3) drinking excessively, (4) developing alcoholism, and (5) shortening their life expectancy. Is there some way that such persons might be helped?
I approached a clergyman who is a personal acquaintance, gave him a printout of my home page with a suggestion that this might be of interest to some members of his parish. Actually I did this twice, once two years ago and another time more recently. I have never had a response from him. Seems rather odd that my offer to help in these respects should not have received some encouragement. I suspect that the topic of alcoholism may be very sensitive to those who, because of their social position, fear that coming out of the "closet" as it were might lead to some kind of disgrace.
Any thoughts out there? Anyway, thanks for your help to date.
P.S. At a minimum, might it not be a good idea to create a special forum section for retired seniors here on the SR website?

WpainterW

LaFemme

Wow, What a great idea. I have a friend whose father (very successful) when hehreyired started drinking a lot. I don't know what is going on with him now, if he got itjinder control, but he is a person who should never touch a drop because it makes him really, really mean.

From observing older family members, anumber who I would consider alcoholic, I can't see any ofnthem admitting they have a problem or seeking help. I don't know if this is cultural (not American), generational or a family trait. Among these family members I would say there is a feeling of what the point? And a complete inability to fathom a life without alcohol.

I am surprised your church hasn't done anything. Mine is very active about recovery. Maybe you need to change denominations:-)

wpainterw

Thanks LaFemme!
As I may have mentioned or implied earlier, I think that part of the problem may be cultural, i.e. that some persons in the upper income brackets, including those who have clung to a more traditional life style and values of former days, may consider it somehow demeaning to attend or be found at an AA meeting. Thus,if you watch films from the period up to say 1940, the image of the alcoholic tends to be that of a down and out "drunk", as they were called, someone who might be found face down in the gutter. The reality of course is that alcoholism may be one of the most democratic institutions we have. It welcomes all members of society. And it has always been this way. The crowned heads of Europe have not been spared. I have heard many stories about members of the English House of Lords.
Well, anyway, I shall explore various ideas and welcome any that may be put forth, including, as I mentioned, a special section of ER devoted to Seniors.
Every good wish to you.

Bill.

wpainterw

LaFemme:
P.S. to my message just posted. As for current films, perhaps the most flamboyant and colorful "drunk" is "Arthur" in the Dudley Moore film. Interestingly "Arthur" never attends an AA meeting. Instead he is guided around by his valet, played by John Gielgud,who in a way is his sponsor, at one point slapping his face and calling him a "little s..t". And his girlfriend, played by Lisa Minelli, seems very much of a codependant enabler (Arthur has enabled her shoplifting). His fiance, "Susan", has a dad who comes on very strong as a candidate for Arthur's "Higher Power", decking poor Arthur when he jilts Susan at the church. The dad has all the proper Higher Power paraphernalia, including gun cases filled with high powered rifles and mooseheads on the wall.He might have been Governor of Alaska! I guess that Arthur's problem was possible embarrassment if he had to be driven to an AA meeting in a chauffeured Rolls Royce.

Bill

LaFemme

:rotfxko:rotfxko:rotfxko

Painter...are you talking more about senior citizens who need to get sober or who have loads of sobriety already? I think walking into an AA meeting for the first time, north of 70, admitting you have a problem, would be really hard. At 70+ you are supposed to have figured everything out already, no? I'm not saying that's true, just the perception.

Still Waters

When I went to the family week at my husbands rehabilitation center, there were a couple retired gentlemen there for treatment.

Perhaps start there? I'm sure other rehab centers around the country see countless people of retirement age, maybe you could get the word out through them?

wpainterw

LaFemme:
I'm talking about the ones who develop severe drinking problems in late life, exacerbated by retirement. These are people who probably have never attended an AA meeting. As for being expected to "have it all figured out" by the age of 70, this is certainly not the message we are getting from the younger generation. The latter, particularly the adolescents, are eager to remind us that we never really did "have it all figured out", like they do. In fact we were expert in only one thing: screwing it all up. And it does no good, after you're 70, to go buy a guitar and let your hair grow long. Nobody would believe you. So you sit at home, drink, watch TV and put on tons of weight.
As for the well heeled, former CEO's and the like, I suspect that they tend to congregate in luxurious rehab resorts, do a 30 day stint and then return to relapse later on in their Toad Hall palaces. And there are various upscale hospitals with V.I.P. suites and gourmet cuisine, where one can get a weekend "spin dry" (i.e. detox) with little or no publicity. Hollywood starlets may try to boost their ratings, however, by holding tearful press conferences with promises of reform. Politicians are good at that, with their whole family and the dog on TV. It can be a real vote getter.

W.

jamdls

My 87 yr old father has been sober for about 25 yrs and he doesn't attend and never attended any meetings, he achieved sobriety on his own just like I have. He lives in a retirement home that has an onsite bar that is open every day. The retirement home is 95% male and all military retirees and there is never more than 3-4 people in that bar. Just because someone stays home all the time does not mean they are drinking, I rarely leave my house except to go to work or the gym but that's no reason to think I'm sitting at home drinking.

wpainterw

jamdis: I sense a little bit of irritation on your part at my suggestion that there may be some relatively older folks who need help. I have reread my earlier posts and can find no implication that everyone of senior age who sits at home necessarily has a drinking problem. On the other hand, what I do see is the following: In my locale there is a very significant percentage of retired folks. Secondly, the liquor stores do a land office business selling booze, more booze than would seem normal for a small country area. Thirdly, most of the senior people I meet at AA meetings have quite a long period of sobriety. I see very few senior people who are relatively new. Fourthly, although you say that many folks can "do it alone" (and more power to them), I know from personal experience that I could not do it alone. I tried to do that for forty years. Finally, I have known personally several elderly folk in my area who had drinking problems and who never went to AA. If anything they were a source of neighborhood gossip, which often went two ways, some folks saying, "You know, I think she drove him to drink!" Another saying "Poor -----! What she has to put up with what with her drunken husband! I don't see how she stands it!"
I'm just trying to reach out and help folks a bit here. In no way did I mean to cast aspersions on you or on anyone in your family nor imply that just because an older person wants to be left to himself or herself, that person is necessarily a drunk. And if a person with a drinking problem thinks he or she can get well on their own then it's certainly true that some, perhaps many, have done so. I suspect however that a greater number have benefitted from some form of help.

W.

Still Waters

The retirees I met tumbled into the alcoholic abyss after retirement. One said he had been a social drinker prior, and very little of that as he didn't have the time or inclination to socialize much. After retirement he figured hey, I don't have to go to work, let's have a drink and relax! He was horrified to discover that he couldn't stop.

Mcribb

That is amazing you can work the internet at that age. My VCR still blinks 12:00

LaFemme

I hate to say this but there is also perhaps a correlation that people who have drinking problems who don't get sober might not live to retirement age.

As for those who become alcoholics after retirement, I think it would be fantastic to find a way to help them:-)

Hevyn

Still Waters - I have a neighbor like that! To my knowledge, this person never had a problem all the years he was raising a family and working as teacher. When retirement time came, he was so relieved to finally be able to let his hair down & relax - no need to worry about tomorrow, no lessons to prepare, no alarm clock to jolt him awake! At first it was fun & manageable. Then we noticed him drinking earlier & earlier each day, often glassy-eyed & slurring. All the projects he had in mind (gardening, writing, etc.) just fell by the wayside.

wpainterw - I haven't "met" you before, and find your recovery truly inspirational and helpful. It's good of you to reach out to others, & I wish I had a useful suggestion.

wpainterw

LaFemme:
Yes, indeed, nature has a way of taking care of some of those who suffer. They die without reaching retirement age. On the other hand, as Hevyn points out, there are some who seem to have no trouble with drinking all their lives but who, when retirement comes, find problems with isolation, loneliness, the absence of the restraint of the workplace, the death or illness of a spouse, sheer boredom, etc. that they may seek solace in alcohol. And winter days and nights are long here in New England. The skies are often gray. Depression is common. Some use alcohol to provide a bit of a "lift", only to find that it is a very effective depressant, wakes them up at night so that they have to have a bit more, and then of course a bit of an "eyeopener" at breakfast time. If they're living alone who's to know. Until they end up in the ER. So it goes...

W.

julez

William, I just wanted to say thanks for your post, and ideas. I think it would be really great to have a group on here for seniors. Congrats on your sobriety!

Mcribb, mine is too!!!