chicory

Today my son was being very nasty, due to being angry for not having anything for his nerves. he missed a dr appt- I told him to check on when it was, he would not listen, said to let him take care of his own business. so i did. he missed appt. was just going to ask for zanax, or some thing he can get addicted to anyway. He has been trying , at the two psyc. evaluations i got him to.
He needs help. He will not admit it. he has not had any alcohol, and is miserable, i am sure. He started blaming me, for not gettting to doc, and I said "I dont want you taking pills and staying here anyway son. It just came out. I would not have said it had i had a moment to think . he was being really strung out, does not sleep, may have been taking some sinus meds, like last week, when he hit a hole in the wall, cause i took my sinus pills before he could take more.
he had a container of chip dip, and started saying " I knew it" you just want to control what I take.". he was ticked off last week, when they just gave him a antiinflamatory, instead of pain meds, at the hospital when we thouthg his hand may be broken. it is not , but is in a brace.
anyway, he threw the dip, hard, and it came near to my sweet cat , who was eating, and i think it hit him. dip everywhere! and I was so mad, and frightened, i picked up the phone, telling him i am calling 911- he scares me when he is like that, and he knows it. he probably is trying to get me to allow him a few beers for his nerves. he has bullied me before. he can be so evil.
I told him that he needed to pack, and leave, he went in his room , and I was cleaning the dip up. he was packing, just playing games i am sure. he went out to have a smoke, and when i heard the phone "beep, beep, beep.... I thought"did I dial 911 and not hang up. as soon as I thought it, i saw a cop at the back door. i went and they had my son in hand cuffs. asking me if i am ok. i told them i really hadnt meant to call them. they said, we have to take, him , cause of his warrants. i told them that he needs help, and that we have been trying to pay the warrants. cop was in no position to do anythnig other than to take him in.
i am so upset. now , more fines. he is not well, and needs help. he will go to court tomorrow. should i go and ask them to make him get help? should i beg for leniency? he needs help, and will not admit it.
I cannot believe this. how can I be so stupid? HOw can this work in his favor?
more fines, no money. no job. once again, I am to blame for him going to court. even tho he was the one to get angry and nasty, I wish I had not been so reactionary. it is so hard, not to get mad, when I have done so much to try to love and encourage him, and he seems to be just immobilized.

advice, please!

I feel so bad for him.

dollydo

To be honest, I don't understand why you feel the way you do. He is violent and out of control. You were not stupid to call 911, I would have done it long ago.

He is an adult I would let him go to court tomorrow and face the music. Your trying to "save" him has not helped him one bit. Why not try something else? It can work in his favor, if, he learns that his behavior is not acceptable to you or anyone.

I am sorry that you are going through this yet again, take this time to work on you. Get to some meetings, read "CoDependent No More". If you have read it before, reread it.

silkspin

chicory, you were trying your best to deal rationally with an irrational situation and person. You should go easy on yourself - if you felt you needed 911 then don't knock yourself that the call actually went through. You live in fear of him and that is not ok. You have every right to defend yourself, even if it is your son. Maybe it was your higher power that finished the dialing.

Yes he needs help but you cannot help him. You said yourself that he wanted to take care of his own business and missed his own dr. appointment. That is as it should be - it was HIS responsibility to get there and he didn't and then he couldn't have his drugs.

The warrants, the addictions, are all HIS. Mentally, physically, spiritually. You must allow him to have that. The help he needs is for you to stop trying to save him so that he may have the opportunity to do so. I have never been in your situation so I can't share on that level, but my first instinct is to say that you do not go, or if you do, just be present and don't and beg and plead or do anything else on his behalf - simply give information if it's asked of you, in a neutral way. This is him, leave him to deal with the mess he has made. And you have to try to heal yourself. I'm thinking of you.

justjo

'CHICORY'

I know you love your son and you are concerned. Try loving your son enough to let him go - go and grow up and be a responsible adult on his own. He obviously needs help (you cant save him anymore).
While your son has you to blame, abuse and use, no job, no money but he has a nice warm bed and the rest, he wont seriously think about doing anything else by the sounds of it. He probably has other issues going on as well, a little messed up and hes taking it out of you because you let him.
There are no consequences for your son, it seems he knows you will clean up all the messes in his life. If one of my sons had thrown dip - he would be the one cleaning it up, not me.
I know how you feel as a mother. I kept holding onto the dream that I could save my son and stop him from getting into anymore trouble. The more I tried, the more trouble he got into. It was the same, my son never had any responsibilities, I bailed him out everytime he needed it.
I can guarantee you that your son needs structure, boundaries and consequences right now. Maybe try writing up some kind of contract with him. The rules, chores, what respect you need from him etc etc You could discuss it with him and make an agreement that you need him to stick to.

catlovermi

I agree. And YOU didn't send your son to jail. He sent himself, through his out of control, threatening, violent behavior. And existing warrants. All HIS doing.

CLMI

coyote21

Since you ASKED!

When I was in a similar situation to yours, My HP actually stepped in "and did for me what I couldn't do for myself".

It was my axw, but the alcoholic chaos, and the "dance" was the same. I had NO PROBLEM calling the police to come get her outta the house if she was "doing what they do". She'd just run off into the night and come home the next day, but at least I'd get my "beauty rest".

But I just couldn't bring myself to "put her out of the house" permanently. So finally she "shot herself in the foot" yet again, we got called back to CPS court AGAIN.

This time the Judge Judy look alike put her out of the house FOR me. By the time she got out of rehab, my own head had cleared enough to be able to NOT let her back.

With regard to your son, if I find myself frantically trying to do "something/anything" to make the "discomfort" stop........then I've learned to do "NOTHING".

Because ANYTHING I do in that state of pain/confusion, ALWAYS, ALWAYS turns out to be the exact WRONG thing to do. I know, I have PLENTY of experience!

It's hard, but I believe your HP has gifted you BOTH, by doing for you what you couldn't do for your selves.

Maybe consider NOT messing with God's handiwork?

Hang in there, things they are a changing.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

Pelican

Take a few deep cleansing breaths, please!

Take care of you.

He is being taken care of. A place to sleep. Food. Beverage. Medical attention if needed.

Right now your vision and thinking is clouded from the crisis. Please, listen to your friends here and give yourself time to let things happen as they need to happen.

Sometimes when I am patient, more options are revealed.

I pray for your peace, serenity and strength.

(((hugs)))

Ann

When someone is out of control, throws anything hard and hurts someone or narrowly misses...it's time to call 911.

Confronting them puts our lives in danger. Letting the police do what we pay them to do is the right thing.

I know we all think "he wouldn't really hurt anyone" but I can tell you that when they are angry and out of control, people get hurt...or worse.

You did the right thing, even if you didn't mean to.

Hugs

Tally

Oh hun, you didn't do anything wrong at ALL! Just because he is your son does not give him the right to disrespect you in your own home, threaten violence, act violent, destroy your things (walls, cats, dips) or make you feel scared in any way at all.

You can't save him. Truth is he wouldn't have gone to jail if he didn't have warrants out for him, would he? The warrants are not your fault, nor was dialling 911. If he hadn't acted out then you wouldn't have felt scared and picked up the phone.

You have every right to tell him you don't want him staying with you and popping pills. It doesn't sound like he is trying hard at all. He sounds like a dry drunk who is trying to substitute his drinking with pills and blaming you because he's angry and not working a program.

He needs to grow up and stand on his own two feet and he can't do that if you continue to rescue him, support him financially and make excuses for him.

Let him go.

velma929

If Sonny had warrants on him: I think the days when we could pay our way out of jail are gone. If he had warrants, those quite likely are crimes for which he had not yet been arrested. Maybe you didn't dial the police. Maybe they just dropped by his last known address to see if he was home and take him in.

When he chose his actions, he also chose the consequences.

barb dwyer

I wish could 'double thank' Ann's post -
I completely agree with her position!

Throwing *IS* violence.
Period.

I hope you're involved in a program of recovery in 3-d;
no one should have to go this alone;

being online and coming here is a good thing
but when the situation gets extreme,
you need support in the physical as well.

I also agree with Catlovermi :
he put himself there.

I personally have a 'zero tolerance' policy
when it comes to violence.
It is a 'trigger' event for me,
having had to deal with so much of it
in my own bad choices...

and finally -

I agree (i can't remember who made the post - sorry!)

thzt if you don't learn now how to let him
make his own mistakes
stand up and take his own consequences
learn once and for all that his behavior
is unacceptable ... in ANY society ....

he's just going to be yet another spoiled little boy bully
in a man's body.

If he doesn't abuse YOU...
he'll abuse his girlfriend ...

the world doesn't need another bully.

Please consider getting yorself as resource circle
that you can talk to
count on
and lean on
while this most recent 'event' plays itself out.

I apologize if thiscomes off as being harsh...
or if superficially I seem to be cold and unfeeling.

I tried to write as neutrally as possible
from a perspective of true concern for your physical safety.

Please keep that one thought in the FRONT of your mind.

I'll keep you in my prayers meanwhile.

chicory

Thank you my friends.
All good words.
called police. he is booked, for warrants due to failure to appear in court for charges. they were for stupid things. like a drunked fight at friends house, and he had to drive off, even tho he had a revoked license. he did not go, did not take care of his business.
He will be there , until he goes to court. probably two to three days. I almost want to laugh histerically- he never listens to anyones advice. thinks he can do what he wants and you are right, he needs to suffer consequence. maybe God is answering my prayers.

I am calming down, tho my stomach seems to be getting a nice hole in it lately.

My sister , who has a son who has done similar, says I should get a restraining order against him, so he cannot come back. not cause he is not loved, but because he is loved, and we know that he is not being helped by me. I wanted so to give him a helping hand. He just resents me , seeing my rules as making him live in misery.

I am going to try to do nothing. If he wants leniency, he can ask the judge for it. If he needs help, he can ask for it. How much is he gonna want to take the help that mommy gets for him? I think that he hates his life, and maybe this is just what his HP wants him to experience.

He will be there until he goes to court. which is thursday. I think that the three days there in jail will do more for him than the next three days here, sitting in front of the computer, all night . sleeping all day, and being depressed about it all.

I thank you, from the bottom of my heart for being here. God help me do what is right. even if it hurts and is scary, let me do what is right for my son. I am so sorry for hurting him, by helping him..

chicory

LexieCat

Chicory,

You did nothing wrong. As everyone else pointed out, he was the one who scared you enough to pick up the phone, and it's his warrants that got him locked up. This was all probably for the best--you get some breathing room, he gets some consequences and, possibly, some help.

Now, my SUGGESTION is that you not bail him out of jail. I've been around the criminal justice system, and my SUGGESTION is that you go to court and/or contact the prosecutor and let them know about his drug problem. The court can make treatment a condition of his probation (assuming his warrants are for things he could get probation for).

barb dwyer

Chicory wrote:
I feel compelled to say this, more for any/all the lurkers who are 'out there' looking in here, reading our posts, yet haven't mustered the courage to log in and join up yet.

Men who are abusive are also not likely to obey a restraining order.

Just the fact that your son has outstanding warrants
doesn't necessarily mean that he can't take care of business....

it could well be saying that he truly believes he's above the law.

People of that mindset... do not adhere to Orders Of Protection.

I'm saying this like I say, more for anyone lurking out there
who may be thinking that a restraining order
will somehow 'keep the bad guy away'.
When the fact and reality is -
it almost never does.

They almost always come back.

And if the woman calls and reports it -
THEN there are consequences to make them STAY away
usually by putting them in jail for a time or a huge forced fine.

I don't mean to get anyone upset -
I just feel the need to point out
that restraining orders
only work on tv.


It's not an end of the situation.

thanks.

chicory

he had warrants for failure to pay fines, for the offense of possession of a cig of pot that someone gave him, for his birthday , which he was celebrating in his home- his car in a parking lot.
he has never hit me, but it is obvious that his anger has escalated, due to being a dry drunk- that sounds very much like what he is. (Tally- You have hit it on the head)

He just called me from the jail. my phone wont accept collect calls, and they gave my a number to set up for acceptance. it costs 35$ to set it up , or, I could call and buy him a phone card. I do not know if I should do this or not. he has a cell phone but they wont let him use it there. I guess.

accepting advice, and appreciating the help.

Carol Star

Jail is the safest place for him, you, and the cat......I would get the restraining order. And I would sleep well tonight....after laughing hysterically......don't bail him out.....he is a man.....let him grow up....and.....face the consequences of his actions......Get the restraining order....he will try to pin it on you....that is what they do......all you did was love too much......and enable.....go to Alanon....you are as sick as him......(I was too)....no I was sicker than my X addict/alcoholic husband.......he is where he belongs.....the cops would have gotten him eventually.....

FarawayFromCars

(((((((Chicory))))))))--I would say you did what was best given the violent and unstable manner in which he was acting. No amount of reasoning would have helped (not that you can reason with an active addict...). his actions have consequences. And what I've learned: actions on your part speak louder than any words. It's okay to have boundaries....it can be a difficult feeling when it comes to having to enforce them, but I'd say you did the right thing. Stay strong.

MMkM

Although you may not have mean't to you did the right thing.

Having an alcoholic in the family makes things like this and us think there is a reason for it. Then we slowly think it is normal behavior because they have their alcoholism as their reason for the behavior.

Once that starts it can escalate. We get to where we sit there and accept not normal behavior as normal. This put an immediate boundary on him.

What if the dip had hit your cat and you had gotten angry and it had escalated?

I do understand the more costs involved, etc...Alcoholism and its effects and treatment and costs add up.

Carol Star

The court costs are not your responsibility......Is he over 18?

chicory

I have been thinking about that a lot lately. Like, how long I have been accepting behavior in him that has been detrimental to him and me. Like it's "Just how it is" or something. I feel like I am very ill, not normal.
It all has crept up on me.
I wonder how much it has to do witht he fact that there were not ANY strong responsible men in my family. seems like most of the boys in our family are not taking care of themselves. My two sisters each have a son who is very like my son. addictive. not responsible for themselves. I can see that my sisters also enabled their sons. our daughters have done fine- they have their disfunctions, but they were always able to get out and take care of themselves. I have been able to also.

did my alcoholic father set the stage for how we raised our sons? Our family seemed to be dominated women. men were just not caretakers.

I really apperciate you all, so much.
I just wish I was able to get my head straight, and to be strong.
should i accept a call? he knows there is no money for bail.

I am hoping to be strong enough to drop a few of his belongings off at the court house thrusday., and tell him that he cant stay with me.
i feel like it is killing me and him.