firestorm090

Come on, let's get real, does anyone, I mean one soul really give a damn whether I get drunk tonight? No, not really.

So, I'm done pretending.

I'm done with encouraging others to achieve what I myself could never achieve. I'm done with the " one day at a time" line that never worked for me. I'm done with the "that guy/gal is really working a good program", in fact AA makes me want to just get drunk and forget I ever lived. You can judge me all you want, but does that matter to me? Not much.

Oh D, you're out of line? But am I really?

I'm sick of fat assholes sitting around judging me. These blimps should get an exercise program going, but who am I to say? I'm just another lost drunk, and after tonights meeting, I'll stay lost, thank you very much. Who the hell gave AA members the right to judge other alcoholics? Are you AA members with a ton of years better than me? Come on, so what if you haven't had a drink in decades, are you better than me? I look at these jerks judging me and I think, that ******* really needs a drink. Why? Because he's there everyday, he has no life to keep him/her from attending every day, in fact I think he's addicted to being there. And I'm sick of the AA slogans, and the mentality that if I'm having a problem with my sobriety, then I must not be working a good program, or maybe I need another sponsor. Oh, but it's worked for so many countless drunks just like yourself. So what. I'm sick of jerks acting like they have all the answers, yet they will readily tell you their life is in shambles, but hey, I haven't had a drink today. Is that all there is to it?

OK, I know I'm grumpy and I'm frustrated, but after tonights meeting, which didn't involve me much, I have to say that what I heard there was nothing that I would ever have said to another struggling alcoholic. I don't care how many years of "sobriety" was behind the comments, I just know that the lady in the middle had to feel like a total loser after these comments were made. I found it hard to sit in my seat and listen to these so-called "oldtimers". In fact< I was angry, as I still am, and wanted to take a couple of these so-called spiritual giants out back to teach them a thing or two. Damn, my blood is boiling and I'm ashamed that I didn't do just that or at least speak up in defense of the girl who was center stage.

I'm a hopeless drunk as I've stated here countless times before, and left on my own, I'll drink myself into an early grave. I'm only here because I'm desperately seeking a way to avoid what is presently the inevitable for my life as I presently live it.

I'm not bashing AA, I'm reflecting upon the experience which I actually witnessed tonight. There is no, I mean no way that I will ever go there again, so I'm hoping others here may have found a way to stay sober and happy, and can give me a clue.

Thank you for your comments, pro and con.
D

LaFemme

Hey D....wow, I'm really sorry you had a bad experience and I feel awful for that girl. I wont ever bash AA its done a lot if good for a lot of people...but I don't do AA personally...I'm not on any step program, I'm figuring this out on my own. Its taken about 5 years and likeba million failed attempts but I finally feel like I'm on the right path...never made it past 7 daysand here I am at 39. Not only sober but happy and contented sober...no cravings, no whiteknuckles. Will I make it? Only time will tell but I'm feeling like my odds are pretty good. Was I a real alcoholic...ummmm big time. Do I think you can get sober alone, definitely, my only sober friend has 13 years sober and he did it solo. But, I think getting sober without a program requires a lot of extra work and I honestly don't know if it would work as well without SR,$ which might have been the final piece I needed.

Anyway, I don't know if that was what you are looking for...I hope that girl is ok.

LaFemme

Kmber2010

I am glad you shared and there are other options out there. I do a mix of SR, counseling and daily work at positive change.

If AA isn't for you then look at other ways.....you may prefer them or you may find that you want to give AA another chance.

I feel your frustration but you are not hopeless. Whatever you may be telling yourself.....you are not because you wouldn't be seeking help. Hopeless is when we are 6 feet under and I know if I continued on my path thats exactly where I would be due to alcoholism.

To each their own and focus on you in recovery. All I can really emphasize is that my hat is off to anyone in recovery whatever program that is.

Use all this energy and put it into you not others and what they do. I don't feel people really judge.....they just are solid in what they found to work for them.

All the best and please stay the course and get some rest....and I do care if you drink. Yes I do......but I also know that only you make the choice and I am not responsible but can only support you and show I care.

Live

You can be the change you want to see.
I am from the other side...and the one thing we really have to learn is that no other person can make us do anything. we have to choose for ourselves regardless of what others are doing.

CarolD

Dallas.....
You know darn well many people who are happily sucessfuuly
sober don't use AA. You know about alternative programs too.

Geez! just find something else...or make up your own or mix
a bit of this with that.

You continue to be angry and that is no way to enjoy anything.
Were you ever in counseling? Sorry....I don't recall.

I know I can't convince anyone to stay sober or drunk.
I do hope you will find peace in your life.....

firestorm090

Hi LaFemme and Kmber,

Thanks for reaching out to me when I really needed it.

I'm at a loss as to what to think of what happened tonight, and am embarrassed for what occurred without any intervention. This lady, who has struggled for quite some time, received a lashing in front of the group that I felt was unwarranted and untimely. She needed compassion, and yet the big book thumpers gave her a drilling that only made matters worse. I'm not normally a violent guy, but the comments I heard tonight which were directed at this one young lady made me want to take the main participant, who is permanently confined to a wheelchair, no less, outside to whip his butt. I'm normally quite outspoken and pull no punches if you will, but this left me speechless. Everyone seems to think that just because this guy, who has the tack of an ant in my book, has 20+ years sober in AA, that he's some sort of God, but to me he's just a sick a hole, who hasn't drank for a few years. I would never, could never attack a woman, or a guy publicly like I heard tonight. I don't care about her history in the meeting, I only care if the meeting may help her, myself and others. One thing is for sure, I didn't go there to lisen to some old f**k beat up on a lady who is still struggling to find her way, to tell her she's not serious, that she's incapable of being honest with herself, that she can't face reality....... I don't care if all this is true regarding the lady. The question to me is........ is an AA meeting the place to put her on in the hotseat, to focus on her efforts, when there were 20+ people in the room? Nope, can't buy it, I don't care if the guy had 100 years without a drink. Next time I see the jerk, I'll offer to buy him a drink myself.

NEOMARXIST

Hi there.

I can understand some of the frustration that you feel . I used to feel like that too and when I start to feel like that then I take a break away from AA. Sometimes a good few months. When it all starts to feel too 'cliquey' then I'm off. Because of where I am in my recovery and my age I often get asked to do mainshares after a couple of weeks, which is great, but then I would be expected to turn up like clockwork and I don't like that feeling of being tied down.

At the end of the day I came to the conclusion that I really didn't want to be a drunk anymore, and suffer all that goes with it.

I often felt uneasy about certain things that were said in AA but I made sure that I kept a cool head about it and considered what was best for my sobriety and recovery.

I go to AA when I need to go to AA. At the end of the day it's voluntary anyway and alcohol's legal, know what I mean? Better to go there when it suits and spread a positive recovery message than do what people 'expect' and go back drinking again full of resentment for the place.

AA really did help me stay sober and I continue to practice much of what it teaches. However it ain't a perfect fit for this alkie and I found SR to be of great help to me. Also I have got much wisdom and inspiration from elsewhere through non-recovery related stuff. I also have faced issues that I wanted to address through the mental health proffessionals route by referring myself. This is the beauty of the NHS. Didn't cost a penny.

Whatever happened though I made sure that I didn't pick up that first drink as otherwise you just give power to those 'oldtimers' who you really don't like. I must admit that I have nothing but positive words about AA really to be honest. The people there are genuinely good people and I always feel welcomed and fondly respected. I learned what to say to certain people however that kept them quiet when they would try to "throw the book at me". haha. They mean well though. But there are different ways to happy recovery besides what they know. But they know it works so they want to push it, which is fair enough.

At least you went to AA mate, if it ain't for you then try something else. I know you're looking at it saying whats the big deal about being sober 'just for today' but I know for this alkie then I wouldn't have a life if i wasn;t sober, so it's the most important thing in my life. Maybe you can lead a fairly good life with alcohol included, but me, I would be dead in the gutter before long mate.

Reading your second post then I can empathise there. I often wonder whether some of the stuff said to people struggling does more harm than good. Like it maybe true (what is true anyway?) but to somebody still vulnerable and caught up in denial and all that, then all it's going to do is likely push them away into another drink, never to be seen again. I came to the conclusion that I didn't want what many of the 'oldtimers' had anyway.

All The Best

Kmber2010

FS....I say this from experience prior to drinking, when I was drinking and now in recovery......there are "winners" everywhere in life and it doesn't matter what their background is. Some of the worst folks in life.....never had any problem with addiction.

With that said....what are you going to look at for another option?

Our support and focus here is on you...

I found that once I took a good look in the mirror and stopped looking around.....I started getting the support I needed and making progress.

My recovery and the tools available.....are only as good as I put them to use. Know what I mean?

CarolD

What did you say to the lady ....either during or after the meeting?
Did any of the 20 people there share with her?
Or perhaps stay to talk after?

Was this a traditional AA meeting or one of the underground ones?
As I understand ...from our members who use underground AA
they do something similar ...I think it's call Considerations.

Personally....I thought Considerations sounded more
harmful than productive..... like grilling someone.
But I have no first hand experience with underground AA groups.


I've never been in an AA meeting as you described.
I'm not discounting your bad experience Dallas
just curious.

Suzie12

Hiya Fire,

Sry you are feeling really angry and that you had this bad experience of AA, perhaps it is just this particular group that is like this. I dont do AA and managed 3 years sober on my own, sadly I relapsed and am now on my 2nd attempt which is nearly 3 weeks now and going solo again.

I throw myself into other things to keep me occupied, atm I am concentrating on a healthy lifestyle, and am on a language course, something I always wanted to do but thought I was to stupid to be able to do it, but it is going great and given me a lot of confidence.

I have read a lot of about AA on here, some people love it, and others hate it and some have hated it but found a different AA group and ended up loving it.

Back you your question, does anyone care if you get drunk tonight?

Yep all of us here at SR care very much we are all in it together hun, Dee and Carol spend countless hours here encouraging us and praying for us as you know, they care enourmosly about our well being.

Maybe a good rant on here is what you need get all the anger from your system. We are here to listen and encourage, no one will be judging you.

Hope you feel better soon.

Suzie xx

firestorm090

Carol, you're right. I have a strong tendency to speak my mind, often before I consider the impact of what I'm saying. I also know that sometimes one bad apple can spoil the whole bunch.

I think AA is great as a whole, and it is the lifeline for many who are seeking relief from the lifelong affliction of alcoholism, myself included. My problem is that, not being a fully accredited member myself, I tend to look at AA as an outsider looking in, not because I don't qualify for membership, but because I don't feel at home in most of the meetings I attend. However, I will say tonights meeting was definitely different from any I've experienced before. I will not stop going to AA, but will avoid a couple of people I saw in action tonight. Hardliners may think otherwise, but I think compassion is an absolute requirement for a healthy recovery. If I ever get to the point, years down the road, where I think I have all the answers and can take someone else's inventory, I hope some guy with six or seven days sober comes up and smacks me upside the head, because with just one drink, I can be right there where he is.

firestorm090

Just thinking outloud here, but maybe recovery goes something like this. You tell me 2+2=4, then I come back wondering why does 2+2=4, so I keep asking, "well, why is it that 2+2=4?" You say, well D, that's the answer you seek, and I say "How do I know that's the answer?" I can ask a few differnt ways, such as "How do you know 2+2=4" or something corny like "who said 2+2=4?" The questions I ask don't change the outcome, for the equation remains the same. If recovery from chronic alcoholism can be achieved from working the twelve steps, does my inquiry change the outcome? No. The results are the same, whether I question them or not, as I understand it, if a person works the twelve steps as others have done, the results should be the same.

Am I wrong here?

Dee74

There are bullies and jerks everywhere FS - everywhere, alcoholics or not.

All I know D is...if I let jerks, or the bad things that happen to people every single day throw me off my game, I'd still be drunk today.

I hope that woman finds the kind of support I've seen here at SR - from AAers and non AAers alike.

As for you, you've got some great advice here.

There is only one mandatory way to stay sober - don't drink and be happy.

How you get there, the support you use, or the belief system you subscribe to, is up to you, man.

D

tormentedmirror

After our daughters family night last night, I have an appreciation for what you're saying. There are some very negative people out there. They've been dealing with something negative for so long, that they can no longer see the positive. A father at the meeting actually got angry at my husband for trying to remain positive about our daughters recovery, and stormed out of the room. I was shocked.

tormentedmirror

What are some alternative programs? I'm not sure AA is going to capture my daughters attention.

LaFemme

TM....we have some discussions in the secular section on the forum about alternative methods. I think AA has done tremendous good and helped a lot of people but had I known about the alternatives I might have tried to get healthy sooner because I just didn't want to do AA. I think SMART is probably the 2nd biggest program.

I for one think positive thinking is crucial for recovery...your daughter is lucky she has parents like you:-)

NEOMARXIST

I should point out after much thought about it, and also checking out some of the 'other' programs outthere online, that I am very grateful for AA and to AA and the way it 'works'.

Infact I would say that AA has influenced my recovery and my recovery beliefs about alcoholism more than I realise. I may not do things exactly to the book, but I think I do the AA program more than I give myself credit for. I certainly relate to the promises.

I guess it's easy to pick fault with things but the most important thing is staying sober and being happy about that. Keep chopping and changing things untill you experience that. Maybe try different meetings or try not to get so involved with other's at the meetings and make sure that you're doing right for your recovery. It's certainly good hands on practice to be at meetings where you sense a little distance between you and other members and to make sure that you work your recovery so that no resentments are held onto and instead trying to learn from what they are saying, even if you don't immediately like it.

All The Best

tormentedmirror

That was my thought initially, then I thought I could possibly be missing something, since the woman moderating the meeting didn't make any effort to get it under control. Then I read about this AA meeting. Now I'm not second guessing myself. I know that we'll all have to work at staying positive to get through this and come out on top.

We've already discussed some of the positive changes we're going to implement into our daily lives, and she's looking forward to the changes.

We're pretty lucky to have her, too.

DayTrader

Nice D... I really appreciate the honesty. I used to think it was against the rules or sumthin to talk out against some of the stuff I heard in AA in the beginning. That STUUUUPID saying "My best day drinking wasn't as good as my worst day sober" comes to mind. I've left more than a few meetings as much or more pissed off and frustrated than I ever was when I was living in my active disease.

I've resigned myself to just not having the balls YET to say something AT the meeting directly to those oldtimers but what I DO do is grab the new person afterward, apologize for their bad experience, tell that "that's NOT what AA is supposed to be," explain to them that sometimes even the oldtimers don't do a good job at delivering the message of HOPE, etc etc etc.

I guess those occasional crappy meetings are God's way of getting me off my a$$ and into action helping someone who needs it. I mean, If I'M uncomfortable at a meeting, I KNOW the newcomers are hatin' it.

And ya know.. I don't know you from Adam and if you want to go get loaded that's your prerogative but I can tell you for sure I'd absolutely prefer you stay sober and continue trying to carry the message to someone else. There are ppl out there that you're custom-made to work with.... that neither I nor anyone else here could reach.

heh...and for what it's worth, my great-grand-sponsor Chief Blackhawk (52yrs sobriety) says there's nothing wrong with "busting some of these oldtimers in the mouth once and a while!" lol. According to him, if they're really spiritual and they're working their program they'll forgive you........and if they're not......well, they deserved to get punched in the mouth!!! LMAO!

eremc08

Hello.. I'm so sorry you're being judged by others.. that's a terrible feeling. No one can judge you. I do not go to AA for the fear of being questioned and judged and looked down upon. No matter what people are going through they should still consider other people's feelings. It's just not right.

I only have myself and my husband to answer to regarding this getting sober thing. That's all I need. I come here for support and guidance and I'm really glad I found it yesterday. I hope you come around and realize you are worth all the effort you put forth on your recovery. I think we all are.