Boundaries and advice
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
Boundaries and advice
When I want advice I ask for it.
I learned in a class on codependency that unasked for advice (especially those people who are insistent on knowing what is best for me, or what I should do or be doing, or what I should think or feel, or should be feeling or thinking) is a boundary violation that does affect me negatively.
It implies that I am not capable of trusting myself and taking care of myself.
It discounts me as a person.
I experience it as aggressive, undermining, manipulative and controlling.
I am guilty of unthinkingly doing this to others.
I am trying to correct this.
I want to be supportive and allow others to own there own power...the same rights I want for myself.
I do have some long term friendships here that I have looser boundaries with.
I trust that if I step over the line with any of those people they will tell me.
I do make an exception when children are being harmed or endangered or when there is clear abuse.
And I might be wrong about that.
I am trying to identify what others are asking for when tehy post here.
I welcome comments on this topic I am posting about.
live
I learned in a class on codependency that unasked for advice (especially those people who are insistent on knowing what is best for me, or what I should do or be doing, or what I should think or feel, or should be feeling or thinking) is a boundary violation that does affect me negatively.
It implies that I am not capable of trusting myself and taking care of myself.
It discounts me as a person.
I experience it as aggressive, undermining, manipulative and controlling.
I am guilty of unthinkingly doing this to others.
I am trying to correct this.
I want to be supportive and allow others to own there own power...the same rights I want for myself.
I do have some long term friendships here that I have looser boundaries with.
I trust that if I step over the line with any of those people they will tell me.
I do make an exception when children are being harmed or endangered or when there is clear abuse.
And I might be wrong about that.
I am trying to identify what others are asking for when tehy post here.
I welcome comments on this topic I am posting about.
live
Awakening
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beautiful Texas hillcountry
Posts: 1,272
Originally Posted by Live 
When I want advice I ask for it.
Often times, I am unclear about my feeling on a topic, I like to read others responses, take what I like and leave the rest. I usually discount when someone begins telling me what I "should" do. It's very different if they tell what "they" would/have done in a similar situation.
I learned in a class on codependency that unasked for advice (especially those people who are insistent on knowing what is best for me, or what I should do or be doing, or what I should think or feel, or should be feeling or thinking) is a boundary violation that does affect me negatively.
It implies that I am not capable of trusting myself and taking care of myself.
It discounts me as a person.
I experience it as aggressive, undermining, manipulative and controlling.
Me too.
I am guilty of unthinkingly doing this to others.
I am trying to correct this.
I want to be supportive and allow others to own there own power...the same rights I want for myself.
Me too.
I do have some long term friendships here that I have looser boundaries with.
I trust that if I step over the line with any of those people they will tell me.
I do make an exception when children are being harmed or endangered or when there is clear abuse.
And I might be wrong about that.
I was guilty of keeping my daughter in a dangerous situation for far too long. So I have experience in how hard it is to do what, from the outside, seems like a no-brainer. I get triggered by others insisting that a poster "take action" before they are ready. So I try to keep my mouth shut, not always successful.
I am trying to identify what others are asking for when tehy post here.
I welcome comments on this topic I am posting about.
live
Often times, I am unclear about my feeling on a topic, I like to read others responses, take what I like and leave the rest. I usually discount when someone begins telling me what I "should" do. It's very different if they tell what "they" would/have done in a similar situation.
I learned in a class on codependency that unasked for advice (especially those people who are insistent on knowing what is best for me, or what I should do or be doing, or what I should think or feel, or should be feeling or thinking) is a boundary violation that does affect me negatively.
It implies that I am not capable of trusting myself and taking care of myself.
It discounts me as a person.
I experience it as aggressive, undermining, manipulative and controlling.
Me too.
I am guilty of unthinkingly doing this to others.
I am trying to correct this.
I want to be supportive and allow others to own there own power...the same rights I want for myself.
Me too.
I do have some long term friendships here that I have looser boundaries with.
I trust that if I step over the line with any of those people they will tell me.
I do make an exception when children are being harmed or endangered or when there is clear abuse.
And I might be wrong about that.
I was guilty of keeping my daughter in a dangerous situation for far too long. So I have experience in how hard it is to do what, from the outside, seems like a no-brainer. I get triggered by others insisting that a poster "take action" before they are ready. So I try to keep my mouth shut, not always successful.
I am trying to identify what others are asking for when tehy post here.
I welcome comments on this topic I am posting about.
live
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
That's okay. I don't expect everyone (or anyone!) to agree. It's my truth--for me. And for me, that's the 'boundary' part of it. Now, sometimes it gets a little muddled, like for example, my boss. He DOES have power over me. But, it's still my choice to work here, so I have given him that power.
But, as for an internet forum, it is pretty clear to me that others here can only have power I choose to give them.
I mean, no one is forcing me to hang around here and post............
L
But, as for an internet forum, it is pretty clear to me that others here can only have power I choose to give them.
I mean, no one is forcing me to hang around here and post............L
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
I am guilty of unthinkingly doing this to others.
I am trying to correct this.
I am trying to correct this.
If you're trying to correct it, you will. That's my experience. Awareness is the first step in change.
Sometimes, for me, the second step is to choose denial. That delays correcting the BS I'm doling out to others. (I have a real knack for saying the wrong thing Live, if you haven't noticed)
I'm pretty hardwired for specific reactions to folks, and undoing that is tough. For instance, yesterday I went to the pool with my kids, did NOT take any work with me, I was going to relax.
Then the guy with 6 kids got in the pool and started humiliating them all. And his wife. Very loudly. "Don't even start that sh1t with me, you'll get your a$$ whipped!" In response to his toddler crying when he threw him in the pool.
Now. My firts reaction was to stand up, lift the pool lounge I was laying on over my heard, and throw it onto him in the pool. But I stopped. Breathed. And made my mind up to not let that guy bother me.
It was hard. My fantasies ranged from the lounge chair in the pool to whispering in his ear that he's the biggest piece of dog crap I'd ever seen.
But what I did was check in wtih my kids to see what their reaction was. They were pretty wide eyed about him too. I wanted to interviene on their experinece, but decided to lay back down and NOT INTERFERE with anybodies experience and get some more sun.
On the way home, they brought him up and had a discussion about good vs. bad parenting. They didn't need my help at all! That child hating jerk didn't need me to interveine, and neither did my kids! Amazing.
I'm slowly getting better. You will too!
Great to see you here by the way.
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
LTDwell, my sis recently decided she knows all about what is best for me, involved my family and screwed up my world temporarily....
I am still pondering.
I am thinking about this in numerous ways and circumstances.
You are most certainly right in that I get to choose who is in my world in real life.
(sis is no longer invited!)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
Thanks, Transform!
That is a great example! And thanks for the time and thought in your post.
Knowing me, I would have told my kids (in a voice that the others could hear)...let's go get ice cream and come back to the pool when it's a nice place to be.
and I don 't know whether that would be a right thing for me to do or not...but it is the kind of thing I would do.
I like knowing how others handle different situations differently...it gives me more options to choose from.
That is a great example! And thanks for the time and thought in your post.
Knowing me, I would have told my kids (in a voice that the others could hear)...let's go get ice cream and come back to the pool when it's a nice place to be.
and I don 't know whether that would be a right thing for me to do or not...but it is the kind of thing I would do.
I like knowing how others handle different situations differently...it gives me more options to choose from.
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
the other one....
yes, I ignore alot of stuff! LOL
There are times I need to be assertive with my boundaries.
My counselors over the years have been trying to encourage me to be more assertive and to have healrthy boundaries.
It would save me grief down the road, I am sure.
yes, I ignore alot of stuff! LOL
There are times I need to be assertive with my boundaries.
My counselors over the years have been trying to encourage me to be more assertive and to have healrthy boundaries.
It would save me grief down the road, I am sure.
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
Coyote,
We seem to be kind of coming from the same place here.
I post whe n I have an issue (aside from the regular/daily-ish trheads I participate in).
Some responses are helpful and some are decidely not.
I really have seen alot of discounting going on in this forum...from just reading around.
We seem to be kind of coming from the same place here.
I post whe n I have an issue (aside from the regular/daily-ish trheads I participate in).
Some responses are helpful and some are decidely not.
I really have seen alot of discounting going on in this forum...from just reading around.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 545
I love boundary discussions!
My take on advice giving is this - wait to be asked. I would be kidding myself if I thought that I adhered to that all the time, and on somewhere like SR it is all too easy for me to veer off into the "well, you should do this" ditch. I don't think I do it IRL so much anymore as I am more of a question asker and I would always try and bring that approach to a forum if I didn't have any E, S & H to share. I'm not going to just ignore someone (or post a platitude, although they have their place) to someone in pain just because my experience doesn't tally. I also think that there is some value in a different take on a situation that is presented to us here on SR i.e. when someone is clearly writing about quacking or manipulation and so what would not be acceptable in a 12 Step meeting might be useful in a forum context. I am all for speaking from the "I", however many of us here have knowledge that comes as an indirect result of our experience, such as books and websites and imparting that information may well help. Letting go of the outcome is key, though.
This is all in stark relief for me at the moment. I am spending a lot of time with my parents and my Mother is the Queen of advice givers. About everything. It seems that nothing I do is how she would do it, so she either tells me, re-does it or does it for me. I have times when, truly, I feel like I am not good enough, period. And to think that I wondered at one time where my self-esteem issues came from!
How do I deal with it? Gently, because otherwise all hell breaks loose. And I genuinely hurt her feelings by setting a boundary because she thinks she is doing it from a good place. Which she is. Partly. But that's not the whole story, clearly, but that is not for me to fix. Sometimes, I recognise the validity of what she is saying and thank her for her good idea. Sometimes, I say that my way works better for me. Sometimes, I just raise my eyebrows and she apologises and backs off. Sometimes, I turn into a stroppy teenager. Hey, I'm still learning. The thing that works best is when I see what is her space and what is mine and act accordingly. If she wants things done in a certain way in her space, then that's her perogative. If it's mine, then it's a different story. And I have to be open-minded enough to see that she might have some good ideas, even if I bristle at the way in which they are delivered. And I have to be big enough to deal with the fallout when I reject her input - because just as I feel discounted, so does she.
And I bristle because they touch a lot of nerves as there is a history there. And a lot of unworked on issues, mine as well as hers. On a forum, though, I can be much more detached. If I am given unasked for advice that is inappropriate, I don't even feel the need to explain myself anymore. It's like someone coming on and telling me I have green hair (which I don't). They can challenge all they like, but I ain't often buying it. More often than not, though, I welcome the chance to clarify my own thoughts in writing based on their response. Perhaps I have been swimming too much and the chlorine has had an effect?
My Mother does the same with my Dad too. After a lot of pain and heartache on my part, my boundary is firm on this score. No matter how unfair I think she is being on him, he fights his own battles unless I am asked specifically to intervene. No moaning to me from either party is permitted. And I have to fight really hard to stop myself stepping in when there is a "discussion" in place on the best way to hang up a towel to dry or how to load the dishwasher. I am nothing in the "all or nothing" scenario. It is none of my business.
eta - lordy, that was huge! seems my break has not made me less verbose.
My take on advice giving is this - wait to be asked. I would be kidding myself if I thought that I adhered to that all the time, and on somewhere like SR it is all too easy for me to veer off into the "well, you should do this" ditch. I don't think I do it IRL so much anymore as I am more of a question asker and I would always try and bring that approach to a forum if I didn't have any E, S & H to share. I'm not going to just ignore someone (or post a platitude, although they have their place) to someone in pain just because my experience doesn't tally. I also think that there is some value in a different take on a situation that is presented to us here on SR i.e. when someone is clearly writing about quacking or manipulation and so what would not be acceptable in a 12 Step meeting might be useful in a forum context. I am all for speaking from the "I", however many of us here have knowledge that comes as an indirect result of our experience, such as books and websites and imparting that information may well help. Letting go of the outcome is key, though.
This is all in stark relief for me at the moment. I am spending a lot of time with my parents and my Mother is the Queen of advice givers. About everything. It seems that nothing I do is how she would do it, so she either tells me, re-does it or does it for me. I have times when, truly, I feel like I am not good enough, period. And to think that I wondered at one time where my self-esteem issues came from!
How do I deal with it? Gently, because otherwise all hell breaks loose. And I genuinely hurt her feelings by setting a boundary because she thinks she is doing it from a good place. Which she is. Partly. But that's not the whole story, clearly, but that is not for me to fix. Sometimes, I recognise the validity of what she is saying and thank her for her good idea. Sometimes, I say that my way works better for me. Sometimes, I just raise my eyebrows and she apologises and backs off. Sometimes, I turn into a stroppy teenager. Hey, I'm still learning. The thing that works best is when I see what is her space and what is mine and act accordingly. If she wants things done in a certain way in her space, then that's her perogative. If it's mine, then it's a different story. And I have to be open-minded enough to see that she might have some good ideas, even if I bristle at the way in which they are delivered. And I have to be big enough to deal with the fallout when I reject her input - because just as I feel discounted, so does she.
And I bristle because they touch a lot of nerves as there is a history there. And a lot of unworked on issues, mine as well as hers. On a forum, though, I can be much more detached. If I am given unasked for advice that is inappropriate, I don't even feel the need to explain myself anymore. It's like someone coming on and telling me I have green hair (which I don't). They can challenge all they like, but I ain't often buying it. More often than not, though, I welcome the chance to clarify my own thoughts in writing based on their response. Perhaps I have been swimming too much and the chlorine has had an effect?
My Mother does the same with my Dad too. After a lot of pain and heartache on my part, my boundary is firm on this score. No matter how unfair I think she is being on him, he fights his own battles unless I am asked specifically to intervene. No moaning to me from either party is permitted. And I have to fight really hard to stop myself stepping in when there is a "discussion" in place on the best way to hang up a towel to dry or how to load the dishwasher. I am nothing in the "all or nothing" scenario. It is none of my business.
eta - lordy, that was huge! seems my break has not made me less verbose.
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
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LOL, Bolina
much of that sounds so familiar!
My (X) mother-in-law used to always say "Now I am not telling you what to do, but... then she would do exactly that..tell me what to do and damn she was insistent. Then she had a counter to anything I said to push her I know best view on me.
I have had a lot of practice setting boundaries with my mom...she gives me plenty of opportunities! LOL
I have often wanted to yell "There is NOT one right way!"
I try not to sweat the small stuff.
Several times my counselor(s) say "You need to set some boundaries" in response to situations and relationships...and I often do not even have a clue of how to go about it.
I also don't set boundaries when I fear the fallout.
The fight just doesn't seem worth it.
I am slowly getting to where I am seeing that if I had addressed the boundaries earlier, later bigger things might have been avoided...and my ignoring so many things I am notn fair to me or "them"
I have lots of learning to do in this area.
much of that sounds so familiar!
My (X) mother-in-law used to always say "Now I am not telling you what to do, but... then she would do exactly that..tell me what to do and damn she was insistent. Then she had a counter to anything I said to push her I know best view on me.
I have had a lot of practice setting boundaries with my mom...she gives me plenty of opportunities! LOL
I have often wanted to yell "There is NOT one right way!"
I try not to sweat the small stuff.
Several times my counselor(s) say "You need to set some boundaries" in response to situations and relationships...and I often do not even have a clue of how to go about it.
I also don't set boundaries when I fear the fallout.
The fight just doesn't seem worth it.
I am slowly getting to where I am seeing that if I had addressed the boundaries earlier, later bigger things might have been avoided...and my ignoring so many things I am notn fair to me or "them"
I have lots of learning to do in this area.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 545
So many of our stories are so similar, no? Perhaps that's why advice-giving sometimes goes into overdrive. Really the person being advised is the giver, not the receiver.
I did some thinking about boundaries a little while ago
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...oundaries.html
The biggest realisation for me is that when a relationship gets to the stage of wanting to enforce a boundary (rather than stating a desire or need and it being respected), then feelings are going to get hurt. So, I have to decide whose feelings are gonna get it. Because it's mine or theirs.
I did some thinking about boundaries a little while ago
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...oundaries.html
The biggest realisation for me is that when a relationship gets to the stage of wanting to enforce a boundary (rather than stating a desire or need and it being respected), then feelings are going to get hurt. So, I have to decide whose feelings are gonna get it. Because it's mine or theirs.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
I learned in a class on codependency that unasked for advice (especially those people who are insistent on knowing what is best for me, or what I should do or be doing, or what I should think or feel, or should be feeling or thinking) is a boundary violation that does affect me negatively.
It implies that I am not capable of trusting myself and taking care of myself.
It discounts me as a person.
I experience it as aggressive, undermining, manipulative and controlling.
It implies that I am not capable of trusting myself and taking care of myself.
It discounts me as a person.
I experience it as aggressive, undermining, manipulative and controlling.
I am trying to correct this.
I want to be supportive and allow others to own there own power...the same rights I want for myself.
I want to be supportive and allow others to own there own power...the same rights I want for myself.
I hope that if I overstep my bounds on this site, that the person or persons I offend would just tell me.
No one ever really taught me how to do all these things it has taken me so much time and effort to realize and learn. I wish we came with written instruction manuals.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 1,017
as far as my boundaries go....... my boundaries are mine.
I don't even need to vocalise them any more, when I think enough is enough it's over, whatever it is.
I'm quite proud of that
It did take me a while to get here!
I don't even need to vocalise them any more, when I think enough is enough it's over, whatever it is.
I'm quite proud of that
It did take me a while to get here!
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
I"m just now sorting out a whole new level of boundaries for myself.
And L2L , it would be more helpful if we came with manuals, but who would write it! Not that abusive jerk at the pool I hope! I have a feeling guys like him have been doing it all along, we need a new manual.
hugs to all
And L2L , it would be more helpful if we came with manuals, but who would write it! Not that abusive jerk at the pool I hope! I have a feeling guys like him have been doing it all along, we need a new manual.
hugs to all
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
I've worked really hard on this one with my youngest daughter, and I believe we have a good relationship today because I no longer feel compelled to offer advice! It was so hard at first to not open my mouth, but it has gotten easier with time.
I have no doubt my mother will be offering her unsolicited advice to me the rest of her life, but 99% of the time, I can let it roll off my back like water off of a duck.
It does help that I am a couple of hours away from where my parents live, and we don't get together that often!
I have no doubt my mother will be offering her unsolicited advice to me the rest of her life, but 99% of the time, I can let it roll off my back like water off of a duck.
It does help that I am a couple of hours away from where my parents live, and we don't get together that often!
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Bolina, thank you for the link. I read all of it and I needed it!
Learn2Live, gosh, no one ever taught me about boundaries growing up! And, I wasn't allowed to have any. So, I guess it is no surprise that I am just now learning how to have them for myself...and have stomped over my daughter's often enough, thinking mom knows best. I need to learn both respect and humility. I am also sure I have trampled on other posters here. For that I wish to apologize.
Like L2L, I hope that if I overstep myself here someone will tell me (kindly, please)
LucyA, I think if I would have learned to be more assertive and confident about my needs in relationship with others, things might not have gotten so bad that I felt I needed to take drastic measures.
Transform...me too, there are new levels for me to learn all the time! The discussion on this thread has given me so very much to think about!
Freedom, Sometimes I do pretty darn good with daughter, others not...but she has damned good boundaries! LOL She sure tells me! And I am glad she has that.
Now, if she would just soften up a bit (oops, did I say that)..but, hey, I just recalled that she has now taken to telling me what to do etc. Groan, is it ever over?
I think we have talked before about some similarities between our parents......all our family lives a goodly distance apart.....it would be an unimaginable disaster otherwise..but at least, we all of us in the family agree on that!
Learn2Live, gosh, no one ever taught me about boundaries growing up! And, I wasn't allowed to have any. So, I guess it is no surprise that I am just now learning how to have them for myself...and have stomped over my daughter's often enough, thinking mom knows best. I need to learn both respect and humility. I am also sure I have trampled on other posters here. For that I wish to apologize.
Like L2L, I hope that if I overstep myself here someone will tell me (kindly, please)
LucyA, I think if I would have learned to be more assertive and confident about my needs in relationship with others, things might not have gotten so bad that I felt I needed to take drastic measures.
Transform...me too, there are new levels for me to learn all the time! The discussion on this thread has given me so very much to think about!
Freedom, Sometimes I do pretty darn good with daughter, others not...but she has damned good boundaries! LOL She sure tells me! And I am glad she has that.
Now, if she would just soften up a bit (oops, did I say that)..but, hey, I just recalled that she has now taken to telling me what to do etc. Groan, is it ever over?
I think we have talked before about some similarities between our parents......all our family lives a goodly distance apart.....it would be an unimaginable disaster otherwise..but at least, we all of us in the family agree on that!
Climbing hills, flying down...
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: By the Sea
Posts: 565
Originally Posted by Live
When I want advice I ask for it.
I learned in a class on codependency that unasked for advice (especially those people who are insistent on knowing what is best for me, or what I should do or be doing, or what I should think or feel, or should be feeling or thinking) is a boundary violation that does affect me negatively.
It implies that I am not capable of trusting myself and taking care of myself.
It discounts me as a person.
I experience it as aggressive, undermining, manipulative and controlling.
I learned in a class on codependency that unasked for advice (especially those people who are insistent on knowing what is best for me, or what I should do or be doing, or what I should think or feel, or should be feeling or thinking) is a boundary violation that does affect me negatively.
It implies that I am not capable of trusting myself and taking care of myself.
It discounts me as a person.
I experience it as aggressive, undermining, manipulative and controlling.
For awhile I caught myself doing this...it was a great opportunity to put myself in check and realize that I probably picked this up from my mother...and that I could put a stop to it.
Thanks for posting.
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