Does anyone relate to this?
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 985
Does anyone relate to this?
Hi SRS family,
It have been thinking a lot and reading and listening. I mentioned last week that I have been going through stages - first anger and then sadness but I get stuck at acceptance. It has been two years since I put my foot down and insisted on his leaving. It was tough after many times hearing him threaten to leave and reaching end points with his drinking and then he gets sober, but the situation warranted it ( so I think). (We put up with so much sometimes trying to understand)
We continued to see each other and he had his longest sobreity and it seemed like a good one up until we got to planning to move back in. He started having slips and then a full relapse. I discovered that he stopped his meetings and church. When explaining this to me he got scared about his behavior and asked to resume counseling together. We didn't make it to our first session which was delayed a few weeks by the therapist.
I asked for no contact for awhile to give us both time to breathe.He tried to reach me for about a month and without any response from me he returned to the mantra of "I want a D". I made it clear that my position was not to get D but that I didn't want to fight with him so if he wanted to get things together I would agree to it. His response then was to insist on moving forward independently but he wants me to get the D. He admitted that his feelings for me hadn't changed but there is just too much uncertainty and disruption in our relationship. (He thinks that if he isn't drinking then I can't bring his drinking behavior up as an excuse anymore for anything. Ex: he complains that rebuilding the relationship is too hard and he wants easy - if I try to explain that it is a reality that we have to work through but it is worth it - he gets overly defensive and says I can't stop blaming him for being an A.) This seems like typical A behavior.
Anyway, our fourth anniversary is coming up - we aren't talking - he says he wants out but hasn't done anything about it. He seems content to pay me for bills that he has threatened to put in his own name but hasn't.
I don't want another D and don't want to go through this and pay for it. I still have a lot of good feelings about this person - though we have a lot of
difficult history. It seems that I should move on but I don't want to go through this. In listening to others it seems that nothing is really going to change and I will either have to do it myself or live out life married but separated. Any suggestions or solutions? Anyone else feel this way or going through it?
It have been thinking a lot and reading and listening. I mentioned last week that I have been going through stages - first anger and then sadness but I get stuck at acceptance. It has been two years since I put my foot down and insisted on his leaving. It was tough after many times hearing him threaten to leave and reaching end points with his drinking and then he gets sober, but the situation warranted it ( so I think). (We put up with so much sometimes trying to understand)
We continued to see each other and he had his longest sobreity and it seemed like a good one up until we got to planning to move back in. He started having slips and then a full relapse. I discovered that he stopped his meetings and church. When explaining this to me he got scared about his behavior and asked to resume counseling together. We didn't make it to our first session which was delayed a few weeks by the therapist.
I asked for no contact for awhile to give us both time to breathe.He tried to reach me for about a month and without any response from me he returned to the mantra of "I want a D". I made it clear that my position was not to get D but that I didn't want to fight with him so if he wanted to get things together I would agree to it. His response then was to insist on moving forward independently but he wants me to get the D. He admitted that his feelings for me hadn't changed but there is just too much uncertainty and disruption in our relationship. (He thinks that if he isn't drinking then I can't bring his drinking behavior up as an excuse anymore for anything. Ex: he complains that rebuilding the relationship is too hard and he wants easy - if I try to explain that it is a reality that we have to work through but it is worth it - he gets overly defensive and says I can't stop blaming him for being an A.) This seems like typical A behavior.
Anyway, our fourth anniversary is coming up - we aren't talking - he says he wants out but hasn't done anything about it. He seems content to pay me for bills that he has threatened to put in his own name but hasn't.
I don't want another D and don't want to go through this and pay for it. I still have a lot of good feelings about this person - though we have a lot of
difficult history. It seems that I should move on but I don't want to go through this. In listening to others it seems that nothing is really going to change and I will either have to do it myself or live out life married but separated. Any suggestions or solutions? Anyone else feel this way or going through it?
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,908
Well, I'm the kind of person who gets out of a bad situation as quickly as possible, so I don't know how much help I would be.
What is stopping you from filing? Is it because you are afraid you will have to pay? If the two of you can come up with an amicable solution, that will help tremendously with the cost. Are you still hoping that he will change and that's why you won't file? Are you willing to go on this way for years? What is keeping you tied to him?
What is stopping you from filing? Is it because you are afraid you will have to pay? If the two of you can come up with an amicable solution, that will help tremendously with the cost. Are you still hoping that he will change and that's why you won't file? Are you willing to go on this way for years? What is keeping you tied to him?
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 985
I've often been the kind to stay and make amicable adjustments in any relationships. Part of my waiting is based on the principle that I don't want it so why should I do anything? I also see that I can't make anyone do anything they don't want to do - I also have thoughts like: how many times did he ask me to try again and I did - so why can he give me the same?, or how many times did he threaten to leave and did leave (before marriage) and b/c I said it one time that makes it done? I also don't have much money and don't want top spend it on something I don't want.
I believe in marriage and working through bad stuff - I only D first husband when he became abusive and refused counseling. Even then I was willing to work on it with him in counselling or give him time to work it out but he would stand for those terms.
I also feel that there is unfinished business - I don't want to defend my feelings but I never loved someone like this before and it was a second chance for happiness for me so it could mean the death of that dream for me. Limited thinking I guess.
I believe in marriage and working through bad stuff - I only D first husband when he became abusive and refused counseling. Even then I was willing to work on it with him in counselling or give him time to work it out but he would stand for those terms.
I also feel that there is unfinished business - I don't want to defend my feelings but I never loved someone like this before and it was a second chance for happiness for me so it could mean the death of that dream for me. Limited thinking I guess.
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California, USA
Posts: 293
Kassie, I have tried to post twice (but by the time I post, I get logged off). I do relate. When I have access to a better computer, I'll post again.
What I have learned here is that you don't need to decide anything right now.
What I have learned here is that you don't need to decide anything right now.
I AM CANADIAN
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 2,578
I dont know how you expect someone to CHANGE when they dont want to....do you go to AL ANON?
and rite fully so: YOU DO NOT NEED TO MAKE ANY DECISIONS at this moment...
go to al anon...and go to 6 meetings at least....IT WORKS, IF YOU WORK IT
and rite fully so: YOU DO NOT NEED TO MAKE ANY DECISIONS at this moment...
go to al anon...and go to 6 meetings at least....IT WORKS, IF YOU WORK IT
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wild West, USA
Posts: 407
You don't have to make decisions right now... but eventually, you will. Keep in mind, the way things are now isn't the way they will be for the rest of your lives-- things change, whether we will it or not.
In the long run, and on-hold relationship is an unstable and potentially destructive situation. I delayed and delayed dealing with my separation. Then he met someone else and presented himself as divorced to her... and all h*ll broke loose. We are now divorced. It hurt me a lot more than was necessary.
And he has not changed. Watching his addictions and his inability to accept responsibility for his life bugger up his new relationship, exactly the way they did when he was with me, has helped me on the acceptance front. When you're with someone it's easier to maintain the illusion that things can get better, than when you're watching from a distance. In the long run, I could not have lived with him, although I loved (and continue to love) this person. I did not want to go through a breakup with him either, but I made that choice when I got involved with an alcoholic to begin with. Neither our love or our marriage changed who each of us were, and therefore the breakup was inevitable.
In the long run, and on-hold relationship is an unstable and potentially destructive situation. I delayed and delayed dealing with my separation. Then he met someone else and presented himself as divorced to her... and all h*ll broke loose. We are now divorced. It hurt me a lot more than was necessary.
And he has not changed. Watching his addictions and his inability to accept responsibility for his life bugger up his new relationship, exactly the way they did when he was with me, has helped me on the acceptance front. When you're with someone it's easier to maintain the illusion that things can get better, than when you're watching from a distance. In the long run, I could not have lived with him, although I loved (and continue to love) this person. I did not want to go through a breakup with him either, but I made that choice when I got involved with an alcoholic to begin with. Neither our love or our marriage changed who each of us were, and therefore the breakup was inevitable.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
There are people who live with their "AH" forever. Many reasons, fear of living alone, money, religion, love, laziness and host of others.
To me, it is an individual decision, you should do what is right for you. Who knows you may change your mind in the future!
In the meantime, take care of you.
To me, it is an individual decision, you should do what is right for you. Who knows you may change your mind in the future!
In the meantime, take care of you.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
I wish I would have withdrawn all my ideas of commitment to my (X) husbsnd when he said he wanted a divorce.
Like you, I believed in working things out and thought we had the same understanding.
Gee, he changed his mind.
I still think it was a wrong way for him to do things and was definitely a breach of many promises, understandings and basic respect for me.
so, I found out commitment and marriage wasn't the same thing to him as it is to me.
I wad indignant and devastated. I didn't bail on him when he had problems and needed me!
But I hurt myself by hanging on to my ideals with him when he had abandoned them.
He filed for divorce.
Now he lives with himself and he knows what he did.
Like you, I believed in working things out and thought we had the same understanding.
Gee, he changed his mind.
I still think it was a wrong way for him to do things and was definitely a breach of many promises, understandings and basic respect for me.
so, I found out commitment and marriage wasn't the same thing to him as it is to me.
I wad indignant and devastated. I didn't bail on him when he had problems and needed me!
But I hurt myself by hanging on to my ideals with him when he had abandoned them.
He filed for divorce.
Now he lives with himself and he knows what he did.
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 985
Thanks for the responses. I guess what I am hearing is that I don't have to rush into anything (like I do at times) and that not everyone shares the same understanding of committment and marriage. Obviously I thought we did, but we don't? People say a lot of things and do a lot of things before marriage that often change later on.
Last night I couldn't sleep(so what else is new) and thought a lot more about our relationship and the reasons for the things I did. I do this too often, going over the story repeatedly but at some point I feel one spin resonates with me. This morning I realized that one of the key things that changed was the focus of sharing each other's needs and wants to it becoming all about him. One of the things I admired about him in the beginning was how he made my needs and wants important. He comforted me when I was scared and made me sleep when tired and eat when I was too busy.
With each sober period, he became less concerned with my needs and wants and saw only his own needs and wants as important. At first i understood that this might be the case and certainly with his longest sober period he came back around.
Seven months ago, I wanted a break b/c I didn't think he was treating me like I was someone important to him and not the same as I was doing for him. He still doesn't get it. I think it was and is important. What do you think?
Last night I couldn't sleep(so what else is new) and thought a lot more about our relationship and the reasons for the things I did. I do this too often, going over the story repeatedly but at some point I feel one spin resonates with me. This morning I realized that one of the key things that changed was the focus of sharing each other's needs and wants to it becoming all about him. One of the things I admired about him in the beginning was how he made my needs and wants important. He comforted me when I was scared and made me sleep when tired and eat when I was too busy.
With each sober period, he became less concerned with my needs and wants and saw only his own needs and wants as important. At first i understood that this might be the case and certainly with his longest sober period he came back around.
Seven months ago, I wanted a break b/c I didn't think he was treating me like I was someone important to him and not the same as I was doing for him. He still doesn't get it. I think it was and is important. What do you think?
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Originally Posted by Kassie2 
Seven months ago, I wanted a break b/c I didn't think he was treating me like I was someone important to him and not the same as I was doing for him. He still doesn't get it. I think it was and is important. What do you think?
You don't have to answer me, these are just the first thoughts that came to mind in reading this thread.
L
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
I would bet your marraige vows include treating you with respect, consideration and gentle kindness (love, cherish, honor etc)...just as you vowed to him.
We are imperfect humans all the time...but we can strive to live our intentions and grow better with them together.
He is not wanting to do this and it is not importnat to him. You can't change that.
What you do with that is your own business.
We are imperfect humans all the time...but we can strive to live our intentions and grow better with them together.
He is not wanting to do this and it is not importnat to him. You can't change that.
What you do with that is your own business.
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LTD - I wanted things to back to the way they had been earlier in the rel. It is a good question and I am certain that it took a long time for me to realize that I can be important or special to someone. It used to be him but that got lost along the way.
My difficulty with acceptance I think is tied to the realization that we might think differently about the situation and no one really has to change. Of corse that means the relationship is over - but I definitely expected him to have the same values as me- my self centeredness.
My choice is to take a stand for myself - I just didn't consider any other possibilities - my limited thinking. So- Live- this is what I am choosing to do about it - talk myself through it -take responsibility for my values, feelings and thoughts and recognize that things will probably not go my way on this one. Still need to take my time in preparation for such responsibility to myself. Help!
My difficulty with acceptance I think is tied to the realization that we might think differently about the situation and no one really has to change. Of corse that means the relationship is over - but I definitely expected him to have the same values as me- my self centeredness.
My choice is to take a stand for myself - I just didn't consider any other possibilities - my limited thinking. So- Live- this is what I am choosing to do about it - talk myself through it -take responsibility for my values, feelings and thoughts and recognize that things will probably not go my way on this one. Still need to take my time in preparation for such responsibility to myself. Help!
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California, USA
Posts: 293
Kassie,
Being married to an A (even one working on sobriety the best he can) is lonely, difficult and exhausting. I have been with an A for 15 years. We have been separated for 1 year. Even without the drinking, there is of course, the irritability, mood swings, negative thinking, selfishness, and my fears/worries of his relapse. Even in recovery, my husband is still an "A." He gets into these "ways of being" in which he seems annoyed, disturbed, not-present. He will emotionally shut down when a difficult subject (or something he doesn't want to deal with) is brought forth.
Working to "detach with love" has been very good and healthy for me, but at the same time I can't help but wonder why I have to work so much at "detaching" (w/ love) and this constant reminder to myself, "Am I working on myself?" and "Am I focusing on myself, not the A?" In "normal" relationships (not that I would know what that is), don't couples think of one another, support one another, make sacrifices for one another, compromise and negotiate with one another? give each other input and trust in one another's decisions (even if they diverge from our own) after it has been talked about together thoroughly? meet one another's needs? talk things out? hear each other out? Rather, I feel as though I spend most of my time detaching and giving it up to his higher power or my higher power. I wonder if we are ever going to get to work on nurturing healthy, supportive attachments?
I also feel like I spend so much time giving my RAH support and applauding him for things he should be doing anyway (e.g. calls when he says he will, shows up on time, being present when we spend time together, runs an errand successfully and returns in time, keeps a promise, etc.).
Why do I spend so much time "just focusing on today?" I want to plan ahead. I want to make plans for the future (travel, take classes for personal enhancement, maybe change jobs, move to a different part of the world, throw a pot-luck party next month, meet up with old friends, etc. etc. etc.) I want to work on myself today for a better tomorrow. What I do today should be important because it's helping to build a foundation for toward a better tomorrow. What I teach my child today, what opportunities I give my child today will affect her future. (I wish I could make those plans w/ my RAH). With an A, I can never fully know beyond right this moment (let alone the rest of the day, a week from now or five years from now). Even as I work on my own recovery, that's really unsettling for me. I guess as an alcoholic might be terrified of thinking that he/she may never be able to drink again, I feel like "Will I never get to plan for a future (with him)? Will I always have to focus on 'just for today?' " and detach with love when I feel my husband getting into his "addict mode" (not necessarily relapsing but I guess what people call "being a dry drunk"). I realize that anything can happen in one's life with or without alcohol addiction/substance abuse. With or without addiction, there are no guarantees how one's life will turn out (of course!), but I want to live my life as if I was planning for that wonderful furture (without worrying about whether it will turn out the way I planned it). However, with an A, the "one day at a time" must be a way of life. . . When I start to feel a bit resentful about that, I have to then regroup and work on my recovery. . . then, I think, "Hey! No fair! Why can't I feel a little resentment ?"
Then, I realize I have choices. I am not a victim. I have to make my life right for me and for my child first. That may mean, I may have to let go of the dreams, hopes and illusions I had about my life with my husband.
My husband is early in recovery (5 months) after active drinking/using for 18 years (or so). I sense a little slippage mentally (his attitudes and some things he says). I don't know if this is a red flag for a possible relapse. I don't know if it's me just worrying as a codependent. In any case, I find myself thinking, I need to work that much harder on myself, I need to focus on myself that much harder, and I need to detach from his recovery (and work my own).
Even though you don't have to make a decision just right now, Kassie, as one of the posts did remind us, you will have to at some point (and you will want to move forward with or without your AH). Divorce seems scary and awful, but in the end what is best for you? What are your goals? What do you want in life? What do you want in a life partner? Can your husband provide that? (Perhaps, that's an unfair question because you can't really know).
I really feel your want, your need to be supportive (I sure feel that way most of the time). But I have been asking myself, "Does it really have to be this hard and agonizing?" I want to "get on with life!"
Best of luck to you, Kassie! Read the posts on this forum. There are so many wise people. I'm learning a lot here! And, listen to yourself too (not just want you want, but what you need). The answers will come.
Being married to an A (even one working on sobriety the best he can) is lonely, difficult and exhausting. I have been with an A for 15 years. We have been separated for 1 year. Even without the drinking, there is of course, the irritability, mood swings, negative thinking, selfishness, and my fears/worries of his relapse. Even in recovery, my husband is still an "A." He gets into these "ways of being" in which he seems annoyed, disturbed, not-present. He will emotionally shut down when a difficult subject (or something he doesn't want to deal with) is brought forth.
Working to "detach with love" has been very good and healthy for me, but at the same time I can't help but wonder why I have to work so much at "detaching" (w/ love) and this constant reminder to myself, "Am I working on myself?" and "Am I focusing on myself, not the A?" In "normal" relationships (not that I would know what that is), don't couples think of one another, support one another, make sacrifices for one another, compromise and negotiate with one another? give each other input and trust in one another's decisions (even if they diverge from our own) after it has been talked about together thoroughly? meet one another's needs? talk things out? hear each other out? Rather, I feel as though I spend most of my time detaching and giving it up to his higher power or my higher power. I wonder if we are ever going to get to work on nurturing healthy, supportive attachments?
I also feel like I spend so much time giving my RAH support and applauding him for things he should be doing anyway (e.g. calls when he says he will, shows up on time, being present when we spend time together, runs an errand successfully and returns in time, keeps a promise, etc.).
Why do I spend so much time "just focusing on today?" I want to plan ahead. I want to make plans for the future (travel, take classes for personal enhancement, maybe change jobs, move to a different part of the world, throw a pot-luck party next month, meet up with old friends, etc. etc. etc.) I want to work on myself today for a better tomorrow. What I do today should be important because it's helping to build a foundation for toward a better tomorrow. What I teach my child today, what opportunities I give my child today will affect her future. (I wish I could make those plans w/ my RAH). With an A, I can never fully know beyond right this moment (let alone the rest of the day, a week from now or five years from now). Even as I work on my own recovery, that's really unsettling for me. I guess as an alcoholic might be terrified of thinking that he/she may never be able to drink again, I feel like "Will I never get to plan for a future (with him)? Will I always have to focus on 'just for today?' " and detach with love when I feel my husband getting into his "addict mode" (not necessarily relapsing but I guess what people call "being a dry drunk"). I realize that anything can happen in one's life with or without alcohol addiction/substance abuse. With or without addiction, there are no guarantees how one's life will turn out (of course!), but I want to live my life as if I was planning for that wonderful furture (without worrying about whether it will turn out the way I planned it). However, with an A, the "one day at a time" must be a way of life. . . When I start to feel a bit resentful about that, I have to then regroup and work on my recovery. . . then, I think, "Hey! No fair! Why can't I feel a little resentment ?"
Then, I realize I have choices. I am not a victim. I have to make my life right for me and for my child first. That may mean, I may have to let go of the dreams, hopes and illusions I had about my life with my husband. My husband is early in recovery (5 months) after active drinking/using for 18 years (or so). I sense a little slippage mentally (his attitudes and some things he says). I don't know if this is a red flag for a possible relapse. I don't know if it's me just worrying as a codependent. In any case, I find myself thinking, I need to work that much harder on myself, I need to focus on myself that much harder, and I need to detach from his recovery (and work my own).
Even though you don't have to make a decision just right now, Kassie, as one of the posts did remind us, you will have to at some point (and you will want to move forward with or without your AH). Divorce seems scary and awful, but in the end what is best for you? What are your goals? What do you want in life? What do you want in a life partner? Can your husband provide that? (Perhaps, that's an unfair question because you can't really know).
I really feel your want, your need to be supportive (I sure feel that way most of the time). But I have been asking myself, "Does it really have to be this hard and agonizing?" I want to "get on with life!"
Best of luck to you, Kassie! Read the posts on this forum. There are so many wise people. I'm learning a lot here! And, listen to yourself too (not just want you want, but what you need). The answers will come.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
I think she meant that he seems to think that you should be responsible for getting the divorce- does he think that you are the Divorce Fairy or something-think that is what she meant.
hope it is ok that I tried to answer for l2l. i feel very codependent doing this
hope it is ok that I tried to answer for l2l. i feel very codependent doing this
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 985
Yeah, I think I got it after thinking for awhile.
Attended a conference today and at the end of the day the presenter asked us each what we would do for ourselves daily to take care of ourselves. She said it was much easier to have compassion for others than it is for ourselves. This lit a light bulb in me, I have thought that I needed to be more compassionate toward my husband, today I heard that perhaps the person who needs it most may be me.
Again, thank you all for your posts, I have been around for awhile, but feel somewhat ready to move foward and take care of me more than I have been doing. Don't know where this will lead. Much of what I read reminds me that life isn't always easy. We have choices that don't always turn out the way we expect. Having a life affected by any serious problem is disruptive and not necessarily normal by most standards but then I don't know if there is a normal anymore. I read a lot about what others think is normal in a relationship and it all sounds good but I wonder how much we get to decide what happens in a rel. In any case, just more thoughts to help me move forward.
Attended a conference today and at the end of the day the presenter asked us each what we would do for ourselves daily to take care of ourselves. She said it was much easier to have compassion for others than it is for ourselves. This lit a light bulb in me, I have thought that I needed to be more compassionate toward my husband, today I heard that perhaps the person who needs it most may be me.
Again, thank you all for your posts, I have been around for awhile, but feel somewhat ready to move foward and take care of me more than I have been doing. Don't know where this will lead. Much of what I read reminds me that life isn't always easy. We have choices that don't always turn out the way we expect. Having a life affected by any serious problem is disruptive and not necessarily normal by most standards but then I don't know if there is a normal anymore. I read a lot about what others think is normal in a relationship and it all sounds good but I wonder how much we get to decide what happens in a rel. In any case, just more thoughts to help me move forward.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
Wow, Kassie,
I never thought about being compassionate to myself. I could surely use that sometimes. Like when I am so hard on myself at work, when I goof up. I feel yukky for the longest time, have a hard time getting beyond it. But I know that I eventually must. How much easier it would be to get past it, If I showed some compassion to myself?
I will have to reflect on how it could help me here, dealing with my AS.
Thanks for sharing that.
hugs
I never thought about being compassionate to myself. I could surely use that sometimes. Like when I am so hard on myself at work, when I goof up. I feel yukky for the longest time, have a hard time getting beyond it. But I know that I eventually must. How much easier it would be to get past it, If I showed some compassion to myself?
I will have to reflect on how it could help me here, dealing with my AS.
Thanks for sharing that.
hugs
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 985
Thanks Chic... so far I have thought: 1) compassion towards husband for his illness leading to forgiveness, 2) compassion towards husband that understands he may not be able to do this, 3) compassion for me that I don't have to be in a difficult relationship, 4) compassion for me that I can take my time to decide what is best for me, 5) compassion for me that I can give myself a break from difficult and attend to my needs/wants, 6)compassion for us that we might get to heal with time wherever that takes us, 7) compassion for those who know us, care about us, regardless of their understanding, it is our decision.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
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Originally Posted by Kassie2
L2L - what did you mean - the divorce fairy - little stumped?
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