JessiJoy

Could you please share your story with me?

I thought I had it all figured out. I may be attempting the impossible but I want to be confident in my decision and I want to do what's best for my 15 year old daughter.

Today I told her that that I went to an Alanon meeting. I told her that it’s for people who live with people who drink too much. She asked me why I went.
“Um, your dad. Do you think he drinks too much?”
“Yeah, but he doesn’t get drunk or anything.”
“How do you know?” (because he always drinks at night)
“That’s true.”
“You know how he keeps asking us the same thing over and over again?”
”Ha, yeah.”
“That’s from his drinking.”
“Remember when he stopped drinking that one time? Well, he didn’t really stop but he only drank on special occasions for a while.”
“He stopped drinking because I asked him to. But he didn’t really stop, he just started hiding it better.”

Later she told me she knew I was doing something that day because when she asked me where I was going I avoided answering her. I told her I wasn’t sure I wanted to talk to her about it then because it was kindof an adult thing but really, she’s mature enough and it involves her, too. She said she doesn’t really think it’s a problem, that it doesn’t bother her.
“What about when dad’s mean?”
“Well, it’s just dad being dad and telling me to do stuff. I had a good childhood. Well, I still have a good childhood ‘cause I’m still a kid but… We had enough money and opportunities and stuff.”

So now I wonder – am I over reacting? Am I just trying to justify leaving so I can be "free"? Am I trying to convince myself that it’s bad for her so that I won’t feel so guilty?

I would love to hear your stories, especially if you lived with a highly functioning alcoholic. Did your parents stay together or did they divorce? Are you glad they made the choice they did?

Thank you SO much.

Ainslie

I grew up with a codependent mother and high functioning alcoholic father. Dad left Mum when I was 7 and continued to drink until I was around 14. I never saw my Dads drinking as a bad thing - he was never out of control in front of me, ever. I remember my mother bleating in my ear for years about dads apparent alcoholism but put it down to her trying to turn me against him. He is definitely an alcoholic, but it didnt stop him from being a great parent, and far better rolemodel than my meddling mother. I honestly say that in full awareness that to a certain degree I learned/copied my fathers behaviour and became alcoholic myself. To this day, he is still a far better rolemodel - if it werent for him I wouldnt be sober.

tromboneliness

This is kind of a tough one, because no matter what your daughter says, it can look like she's traumatized by your husband's alcoholism: if she says so, well, obviously it's bad -- but if she says it's not so bad, then she's obviously in denial... so either way, it's bad!

I grew up with a high-functioning alcoholic father (so high-functioning that he never had any health or work issues, and at 90, is still living, albeit with 24/7 home care) and a bipolar mother. When I was 15, if you had asked about the situation, I'm not sure what I'd have said -- probably something similar to your daughter's reaction. I was just trying to cope, survive, and get through my childhood in one piece. I'm not sure how I would have reacted if my mother had started going to Al-Anon and made noises about getting a divorce. Although... at one time -- I was around 14-15 or so -- I really thought my parents were headed for divorce. It might have been better; hard to say.

Probably the best thing to do is just go to Al-Anon, don't say too much about it, but let your daughter know what you're up to, and that if she wants to talk about things, that's okay. Maybe give her some of the Al-Anon pamphlets. Is there an Alateen group in your area?

T

EveningRose

I grew up watching my father have 3 whiskeys, rum and cokes, whatever, every night, and fall asleep in front of Star Trek. I believed then (still do to an extent) that it was about his back pain.

However, he's long since had surgery, still has a glass in hand at all times, and when I was about 16 was diagnosed as a 'dry drunk' by a counselor. He and my mother went to a few counseling sessions after he started hitting and ripping phones out of the wall--because she defended me--because I was coming out of the bathroom and the door slipped and hit the chandelier and banged it into the mirror, which set him into a fit. I stayed calm, walked away from it and went to bed, so he lit into her. Is that alcoholic behavior or 'dad being dad?' I probably would have called it 'dad being dad' at the time.

I'd have said the same about his criticisms, his temper, so many things I took as normal. For instance, now as an adult with a large family, when kids are in my way, I say excuse me and edge by. It makes me realize it was not really normal to put your hand on your kids' forehead, bark OUT THE WAY! and shove past. Or to say things to your children repeatedly like "Everything you do is half-assed," or "I have to love you because you're my daughter, but I sure don't like you." Or to beat up your wife and then tell your daughter your marriage problems are her fault. Is it dad being dad or alcoholism?

Like others have said, I also had a highly dysfunctional mother thrown into the mix. Is she actually mentally ill or just buried under depression and bitterness and hatred from years of my father's abuse? I don't know. But she was worse in some ways, in telling me we were a good family and in going along with the blame game and scapegoating me, in taking her frustrations out on me and my sister.

In looking back, I absolutely believe we all would have been better off had she divorced him. She would have been so much happier had she drawn the line and stood up for herself. Maybe had she gotten away from him, she would have started to see things clearly again and been able to love her children better. She would have regained some pride and self-respect. Instead, she's wracked with bitterness and hatred now, still seems to see me as some sort of demon child, has these hatreds for other people, too who have done nothing to deserve it...I could go on.

Maybe if she'd ever stood up to him, the family dynamics that are still a living nightmare would not be in place today. My sisters and I are in our 30's and 40's and I now see it will never go away, because these roles are entrenched. (Of course, the one time she did stand up for me, he beat her up.)

My father in many ways didn't seem that bad to me. As I said, we all think what we have is normal, especially when a dysfunctional mother is TELLING us it's all normal and we're a good family. But I saw physical, emotional, and verbal abuse directed at my mother, myself, and my sister. In my 40's, I am just beginning to see how much damage the alcoholic family roles have done to me personally and to our family unit. As I said, I think we all would have been better off had my mother divorced him.

I don't know if this is any help to you. I don't know if I'm just rambling. But these are some of my experiences with a highly functioning alcoholic father. Please feel free to ask more or send a PM.

FarawayFromCars

Dysfunctional, codependent mother with a narcissistic personality + pot-addicted (highly functioning addict), overly controlling father.

I remember growing up there were times that my mom would ask what I thought of my dad...and I felt confused about how I should answer, so I just denied my real feelings and said everything was fine. This, I've come to realize now, was more of a coping mechanism on my part.

My childhood was very confusing; my dad had a problem with pot but hid it well. He was the breadwinner, supported his family, took us on vacations, paid for extracurricular stuff, and tried his best to be a good father (although he was overly controlling). So it was confusing to me when he would be stoned around us (a handful of times) or fly into rages when he was going off the pot.

My mom would vacillate between total denial of anything going on, extreme codependency, and talking trash about our father and trying to get us kids on "her side".

All in all it was a chaotic environment to grow up in.

I would say you are doing the right thing; maybe continue to Al-Anon for YOU and offer Al-Teen to your daughter if she wants it....hang in there.

FarawayFromCars

This was my experience, too...my dad was verbally and emotionally abusive towards my mother in front of us kids all the time, but my mom would insist it was the "normal" functioning of our family. She would in turn direct emotional and verbal blackmail / abuse at her children. It wasn't until now (in my 30's) that I'm realizing how dysfunctional that environment was.

EveningRose

"My mom would vacillate between total denial of anything going on, extreme codependency, and talking trash about our father and trying to get us kids on "her side". "

Yes! Exactly the same thing here! She'd trash talk my father's family, especially. Even when I was in my mid-30's and moved back to their state, she was right there criticizing something my kids did by saying SOMEONE ELSE'S kids did that, and we were well trained to know that those someone else's were Bad. In the last 2 years since I cut ties with my family, I have been so grateful to get away from my dad making snotty, snide remarks about my mother to me, and her still telling me how awful he is when I'm with her.

I feel now that they really set me up for things and then punished me for being influenced. For instance, she was forever telling me how awful my grandmother was, but the one thing I did something mildly disrespectful (VERY mild), I was called on the carpet. I'd like to say to her today, what did you expect? YOU taught me day after day after day with your constant barrage of Evil Grandma Stories that she was rotten to the core and deserved no respect.

"She would in turn direct emotional and verbal blackmail / abuse at her children"

I, too, feel this is exactly what happened. And my older sister directed her frustrations at me. And as the youngest for 9 years, I now believe it was easiest for them all to let the blame rest there, on the youngest, me, who couldn't defend myself or pass the blame to the next in line. My memories of my mother are largely of her yelling, sometimes about how awful and difficult it was having children, telling us we'd understand when we had kids, telling us we'd made her miss her art class, or whatever. Her actions, too, let me know that we kids were really kind of messing with the life she'd like to have.

One of the things that really left an impression was that I was always (well, very often, I couldn't swear it was always) the last one waiting to be picked up from school events, standing there with just the band director, waiting, and waiting, and waiting. Deep down, you understand that you just aren't important enough. (As an adult now who has waited with kids whose parents are late, I also see that the adult's time was of no importance to her, either. It simply did not occur to her that she was inconveniencing anyone.)

tabfan

Keep going to Al-anon. We can't fix the kids or the rest of the siblings, but we CAN help ourselves. That's what the program is for.

Keep going. No matter what.

Tammi

I would say that my father was a highly functioning alcoholic. There were several very bad incidents, but for the most part he was just not around, or didn't care.

I agree with tabfan, keep going for yourself and pray and you will find the way.

I can tell you that I am 37 years old and the characteristics of an adult alcoholic fit me to a T! so even though for the "most part" he was functioning, he was still scaring my ability to recognize normal treatment. I always thought it was normal for parents to get drunk every night. So if you would have asked me at 13, I would have said, "What drinking problem?" And I thought all the times my dad was so hard on me was because I was bad or I wasn't good enough.

Prayers & hugs...

EveningRose

So true, all of this. I have asked myself lately why I put up with so many of the ugly things my husband said to and about me over the years, and I now believe it's because he was still better than my father. I had no idea what 'normal' people treated each other like. I realize now that it's abnormal for a man to have three drinks every night after work. I don't know anyone whose husband does that. And yes, he was quite hard on us and critical, and it took me a long, long time to realize it's not because I 'do everything half-assed' as he told me repeatedly, but because he's a miserable, unhappy person looking for someone to vent on.

Ananda

well..read this thread..and just posting what came to mind for me as the child of an alchoholic...a bit off topic...

I got that dad was a drunk....but man....he was alchoholic, what was mom's problem????

I'm close to mom today, but it took yearas for me to understand that it wasn't mom's fault any more than it was dads...she didn't drink, but she was as sick from alchoholism as the alchoholic.

today i love them both...but childhood was hell

nocoincidence56

Hello, Jessi.

I have been busy with other things for quite a while and haven't checked in during that time.

Anyway:

I grew up with a functioning alcoholic father and addict mother. My father was an orthopedic surgeon and mom was a housewife/social scene participant.

The entire community loved "doc", they had no real idea of what he was like at home. When the door shut and he started drinking his old crow and coke, he changed. He was a volatile drunk. I had many moments of terror and pain as a result of saying or doing the wrong thing in his mind. I helped him in surgery for three years and remember the odor of bourbon hitting me in the face as I stood across the operating table from him. On more than one occasion I had to pick him up off the floor at home.

Mom grew up an angry person. Whatever she did was not good enough. She, and dad, had rage. My oldest brother and I grew up with it. Rage was all he and I knew. My oldest brother, who is also an orthopedist, continues to suffer from it. He stays isolated and lonely, an unhappy person, just like our mother.

There was a lot of abuse, both emotional/psychological/physical, from both of them. Dad would whip me and mom would say that's not enough......... That's how it was for many, many years. I found my release from it by staying in school, getting high, and chasing women. I used for most of my life.

Only later in life did dad and I put the past to rest, he got sober the last few years of his life. With mom, it was not to happen, Alzheimer's took her, she obsessed, almost until the end, about her drugs.

Mind this, they used the only tools they knew how to use on a irresponsible/determined/wild child. Not a good combination of elements!

They stayed together until death. They loved each other as best they knew how.

Hope you find your answers. Seeking the ESH of others combined with professional help could help you arrive at the solution.

Peace............

guiab

Wow, nocoincidence, I could have written this:
My family was upper middle class, with private high schools and ski trips every year. Materially, nothing was lacking. My father could be engaging, friendly, funny guy when sober or just a little drunk, but at home....reallyyyyyyyyyy different. Holidays could be either wonderful postcard moments or terrifying scenes. He had that well developed alcoholic skill at zeroing on one's weak spots and hacking away with machete-like verbal abuse, name calling, and blame-shifting. My mother was also an alcoholic (with depression).

JessiJoy, if you asked that grewupinabarn child if anything was wrong, I would have said exactly, EXACTLY, what your daughter said, without a hint of irony or sadness. It was just Dad doing what Dad does.

I remember a large meeting of students at my private high school where the school psychologist made a long talk and was encouraging us to respect each other because some students could be hiding feelings and problems that they don't want to talk about. I don't remember a lot from high school (the drinking/fighting situation was getting pretty bad at home) but I remember that meeting very well. I do not remember feeling like she was talking about me, but I also distinctly remember both thinking and feeling that I did not DESERVE to complain or even feel that I had a problem, or even talk to anyone about my home life, because I was only an average, not an 'A' , student (note the very twisted reasoning there) and materially I was just fine. I remember a sense of a big accusing finger pointing at just me in that audience. It was whispered and gossiped at my school that some kids had parents who were alcoholics, so it wasn't like I felt like I was in a different situation than others. However, I wasn't fine at all, I was just doing a great job of following the 3 rules of an alcoholic home: Don't Talk, Don't Trust, Don't Feel. I truly felt that I was a complete outsider at my school, and I did not form any close friendships.

Did I turn out OK? Well, to this day at the age of 48 I have not had an intimate relationship last longer than a year and I have let go of many many friendships. I actually went to 5 therapists/counselors (two used CBT), over the succeeding years and managed to put up such a good functioning front, motivated by ingrained people-pleasing, a persistent 'I don't deserve to complain' mentality, that in each case I had a wonderful short recovery from my depression and anxiety. Now, finally I am working on myself in alanaon (it is really a great program, and though I have some caveats, it is the only thing that has produced real progress).

I think FarawayFromCars has the best suggestion:
It might have been helpful if relative had just taken me aside and said 'Here is some stuff about an 'alateen' group you might find interesting to read - no pressure!' I can't say it would have helped, as I was strongly motivated to bury the truth.
Be well.

GingerM

My father was a high functioning alcoholic for my entire life. I'm in my mid-40s. My mother has/had an undiagnosed mental illness and is now deteriorating cognitively.

I am grateful that my parents didn't divorce because my dad was actually a pretty decent father. His drinking didn't get out of control until after he retired - the rest of the time he was very very high functioning and retired at a very high level within the company he worked for.

At 16 I would have said his drinking didn't bother me. At 27 I would have said his drinking didn't bother me. Now, after he's retired and his drinking has escalated, his drinking bothers me. But until his retirement and escalation, it truly didn't bother me. He was strict, but loving. My mother was completely chaotic and I don't believe she is capable of loving anyone.

I suppose I wanted to throw this in here to let you know that it is possible that your daughter really doesn't mind his drinking.

The real issue is "do you?" You are of no use at all to your daughter if you don't take care of yourself. Alanon, therapy, whatever - make sure you take care of yourself in whatever way you need to. Remember that your needs as a spouse and her needs as a daughter are quite different; your relationship to your husband and her relationship to her father are quite different. What you need and what she needs are likely drastically different.

Take care of you.

HealingWillCome

My AF left us (mom and 4 kids) when I was 7, for his drugs of choice -- alcohol and women. He was high-functioning. But his alcoholism and abandonment of us have had a major impact on my life.

I was naive to (in denial about?) the negative impact for a long time because my mom remarried a man who loved us like his own. We grew up in a happy healthy home. But I was 100% affected by my alcholic father's addictions and behaviors. I went on to marry a guy just like him who left me with 3 kids, for alcohol and another woman (actually she was a 19-year old girl). I just got out of a relationship with another addict. It was incredibly painful to let him go, but it was a road headed in the same direction as my marriage.

Jessi, I am incredibly thankful I did not spend my entire childhood in my AF's home. Thank God. Thank you, thank you, thank you, God. BUT his addictions and behaviors STILL affected me, dramatically, even though I was only the ripe old age of 7 when he left.

No matter how you slice it, no matter what direction you choose with your marriage, I can guarantee you that your daughter has already been affected, whether her dad is high-functioning or not. Is there an Alateen group she can attend? Open up your communication with her. Teach her about the disease of alcoholism. Learn together. Make your own healing and your care of her a priority.

Peace to you. This thread is an older one, I see, but I hope you're doing well, Jessi.

LeanaJo

My father was semi-functional, though he did have 3-4 separte surveyor/civil engineering jobs when he was drinking. Because he would call in sick sometimes and when in actuality he was having a hangover and would lose a job because of too many sick calls.

dothi

The only functional part about my AF was my mother. She'll clean up after him STILL when this 65+ man comes home from a binge with his son. Neither parent wants the last child to leave home because then they'll be left with each other... so she keeps the house clean, supper made, etc. And 25+ years later, the house is still "functional".

EveningRose, so much of what you wrote sounds so familiar...

Quote:

My memories of my mother are largely of her yelling, sometimes about how awful and difficult it was having children, telling us we'd understand when we had kids...

This was also my mom's way of balancing the functional part. Not many people understand the feelings that come with being actively told you were unwanted growing up.

Quote:

I was always (well, very often, I couldn't swear it was always) the last one waiting to be picked up from school events... Deep down, you understand that you just aren't important enough... It simply did not occur to her that she was inconveniencing anyone.)

"Functional" should refer to surviving on the most minimal amount of actual function possible, in an alcoholic-impacted family. Especially emotionally.

JessiJoy, I would say growing up in a functional alcoholic household, you are trained to function remarkably well 150% in some ways and 0% in others. Right now your daughter is still growing, and only time will let those parts still locked at 0% develop. As that happens (watch out adolescence!), your daughter may come to assert her identity against these previous failings, especially as her mind becomes more adult and sees her adult father's behavior for what it is. At 15, I bet parts of her mind still perceive things as a child, and probably she views her father as another emotional child. The fact that she's deferring to your judgment so easily probably even reflects her innate trust in the nearest emotional adult she has right now.

Keep doing what you're doing, keep the lines of communication open, and let it come as it will. I think your daughter may very well see it clearly one day, but I think it is too much to expect that she re-focus it all now. It could be smooth sailing or rough waters, depending on so many things that are out of your control. Be prepared for the worst, and hope for the best. It sounds like you got a good kid.

wolf99

i grew up with two alcoholics. my dad is a high functioning alcoholic, my mom is very dependent on my dad. she functions just enough to get by without anyone being suspicious. i think that if they didn't drink they would have to get a divorce, because when they are not drinking they can't seem to stand each other. but ya, my dad has a really good job and makes quite a bit of money. gets up early on the weekends takes care of the yard cleans all the cars, you know...keeps up appearances. so growing up no one had any idea that my life was a living hell,lol. my parents did a really good job at hiding it. but behind closed doors my mom was a very abusive person, especially to me. she took all of her anger out on me, always when she was drunk of course. it really affected me, and i honestly don't think i'll ever fully get over it. it was just a little bit too traumatizing. but honestly i've blocked a lot of my childhood out, the memories i do have are bad though. my brother is the same way, he says he really just doesn't remember much.

thequest

I have trouble with the phrase " high functioning ". It should be phrases like 'didn't get caught yet' or 'didn't catch up to them yet'. I had a so called functioning basically alcoholic parent who was able to hold a job and kept a roof over our heads which is good. But they were also layed off several times without question and their career never progressed just as salary. And always being buzzed or hung over they did NOT progress, learn, adapt, notice or was aware of many things going on around them.

We were always the last to get things done like repairs on the house. It wasn't just money. I guess rountine cleaning and/or repairs interrupts your buzz or headache from noticing things like dust or peeling paint. Or things like I won't be getting a pension from anywhere so I better think of something.

I believe a 'high functioning' person is not bringing all they can to the table. And they are missing out on their lives, family and career. Missing out on things that WILL come back on them. They simply can't get as much done. There's plenty of nights where I want to do alot of things around the house and just ONE occassional drink can kill that for me. I can't imagine where daily alcohol consumption canNOT affect you. No wonder people in France or Germany want a 36 hour work week.

JessiJoy

I didn't intend to post and run but I haven't been over on this side of the wall for a while and didn't realize people were still responding to this.

THANK YOU ALL for sharing your stories. It does help and I appreciate the time you took to respond.

Just a quick update - I've pretty much accepted that I will never know if my daughter will be better off if I ask her dad to leave. There are some things that will be harder but I think overall our home will be happier and more peaceful. It's probably too late to make much of a difference in what she sees as a normal home but at least she'll have some place to go that's calm. I will make sure she knows al-anon is available and have found a few counselors in town who specialize in addiction and divorce and work with teens so I will make sure she has someone to talk to. I'm afraid she'll be too worried about making me feel bad to come to me when she's sad or angry.

She's a good girl and honestly, she does know there's a problem. We've talked about it a little more, not specifically about her dad but just little bits here and there within other conversations. She's told me she's never going to drink and she told me that she and her cousin talk about how much their dad's drink so I know deep down she knows it's a problem. My husband doesn't get falling down stupid drunk so compared to Intervention - he doesn't have a problem.

Anyway, I'm preparing as much as I can and will make as many resources available to her as I can and try to be the best mom I can... That's all I can do.

And a big huge hug to all of you.