Mat

Well, I finally overcame all of my anxiety and went to an AA meeting today. I was a bit put off my all of the repetitious phrases and religion though. Some of the things that people were saying seemed like patent nonsense, e.g., Jesus helps me to stop drinking but doesn't stop babies from being throw in a fire in front of their mother in war-torn regions of Africa. It was nice talking with other people who have overcome the same life-threatening condition from which I suffer, but they were definitely pushing the spirituality quite hard and I feel that my path to recovery probably won't include anything of the sort. I feel good for at least giving it a shot.

I am going to the only local SMART meeting I can find on Wednesday, and I might pick up a second counselor since my first one is so overbooked. Anyone else have any other ideas?

Posting here has actually been hands down the most helpful thing that I have found thus far, so a big thanks to all of you.

Supercrew

Great job!! AA isn't for everyone, but I also agree that posting and reading here has been very helpful for me also! I'm curious to hear about your SMART meeting, please post afterwards.

Thanks!

Recovery1983

My suggestions would be to concentrate on the similarities and not the differences. Dont know your story but if you are one of us, it wouldn't hurt to keep an open mind. Plus, you went to one meeting. Did you think that everything was going to change over one meeting? I go to meetings on a daily basis and I dont always agree with what everyone says but I try to keep an open mind and look for the similarities. I have over 5 months now and this routine i'm doing seems to be working. I cant really argue with that and I dont want to pick it apart as to why it is or isnt working. It just is what it is.

Mat

I understand that it is just one meeting. I am leaving the door open to try more in the future if needed. It just seemed a little bit wacky to me as a battle-hardened atheist and long time member of the skeptical community. I am scared that I won't be receptive to the parts which I do share similarity because of my argumentative nature.

I can't stop picking things apart, it is in my nature. I have even picked apart myself and my addiction quite thoroughly, fat lot of good that has done me though.

Mark75

Yea, that's weird, just wrong on multiple levels.... That thing about Jesus and babies isn't the AA message... And to me isn't remotely helpful nor spiritual... Sick comes to mind... Other things too...

Try another meeting before you give up on AA... Oh, and get a Big Book... AA is in there.

LaFemme

Hey Mat!

You gave it a shot and are trying SMART, so you are more open mnded than me;-)

Good luck and keep us posted!

LexieCat

Yeah, Mat,

I've never heard anyone say anything remotely like that at any meeting I've ever been to, though I have heard some individuals spout some wacky stuff.

Remember, not everyone at an AA meeting is well, or working the AA program. We don't toss people out because they say bizarre things. (I heard a story about one guy so famous for off-topic ramblings they ONLY let him suggest topics--one night he suggested "oral sex" as a topic. I believe that one was shot down, lol.) Hopefully, a member of the group has a word with someone like that about what's appropriate to share.

Seriously, I believe in the almost two years I have been going to AA I have heard Jesus mentioned maybe five or six times.

I know many atheists and agnostics who are happy with AA as a spiritual, not religious, program, which it is.

Anyway, I hope you won't judge the program as a whole based upon the weird ramblings of one person at one meeting. Each group has its own "flavor" and some I like better than others. Even the best can have an "off" night, too.

It's good that you pushed out of your comfort zone to go. That's always hard for me, but I'm usually glad that I did it.

Mat

Noooooo I added the babies part... lol

ETA: And I didn't say anything about the babies outloud. =p

I was trying to say that it doesn't make sense to me, the deity as a higher power. Why would a deity help some slob like me(or any of us), and not poor innocent folks? I am so argumentative; to a fault even.

I did get up and talk both times during the discussion. That part was helpful to me. I just did not relate to any of the other people there aside from the fact that we were all alcoholics.

trixieisme

I was concerned about the amount of religion in AA meetings as well. The one thing that some of the people kept stressing is that it was "God as I understand him". And, when I should be giving thanks to my Higher Power, it doesn't have to be God. One gal told me that if all I could do right now was pray to my dog, then do that. I'm praying, my prayers are being heard, and I am opening my mind and accepting the fact that I cannot get over this disease by myself. And with that, I keep going back.

Mark75

My concept of a higher power helps anyone who seeks.

BTW... Thanx for coming clean. Maybe you aren't open to a spiritual solution, IDK... Maybe open your mind and heart and go and just..... listen. If you see or hear someone who seems happy joyous and free... ask him how he got that way.

LexieCat

I consider myself to be agnostic--I'm not opposed to the concept of God, as an entity, but I have no idea whether such an entity exists and, if it does, why it would bother to be concerned with any of us as individuals.

However, I do know there are power(s) greater than myself. Ever try to fight gravity? The laws of mathematics?

When I think of a higher power, I think of the universe and whatever power(s) there are out there that I may never comprehend. When I think of turning my will and my life over to those power(s), I think of aligning myself with them, rather than fighting them. Living in the world in peace because I'm not at war with it.

My biggest problems seem to be that I'm constantly fighting myself and the world as it is. You hear a lot in AA about living life on life's terms. That's what that is about.

Some people are religious, and quite naturally, they have a religious concept of their higher power, and choose to call it God. The word God appears quite often in the Big Book and in the Steps, but the program is quite clear that you don't have to believe in some personal entity. You just have to give up the idea that you're the center of the universe, which is pretty tough for many of us. I tend to make everything about me, when often I have little to do with whatever little dramas are playing out in my life.

The Lord's Prayer doesn't bother me, either. I think that standing together and expressing gratitude for what we have and love and forgiveness for each other and for ourselves is a nice moment.

CarolD

Well...
That statement was the opinion of the person and certainly
not a darn thing to do with AA.
The first 164 pages in our book is AA...

Yes...AA is spiritually based. That is the purpose
of AA recovery......to have a spiritually based life.
AA is not affiliated with any religion or sect.

And that may not be for you Matt...but 1 meeting
is not much to go on.

There are Agnostic AA meetings but difficult to find.
Not sure of what they do...I've never been.

hope you find your way and something clicks with you.

Anna

Mat, I think the main thing is that you are looking around to find what works for you.

That's what we all need to do and hopefully SR will also be a source of support for you.

Mat

I would be a 6 on the Dawkin's scale. I don't claim to know that there is *not* some deity out there somewhere, to restrict ontology in that manner is no better than extending ontology sans evidence. I merely dump the burden of proof on the positive claimant(where it should be), and ask for evidence without making a claim of my own. Some call this "weak atheism", "agnostic atheism", or "de facto atheism". I feel the same way about leprechauns.

I definitely don't have a problem with something being a "higher power" in a more abstract sense, like gravity or mathematics. At the same time, that really doesn't seem to be what anyone was talking about there. I feel it may be possible that AA works because it is just as crazy as the alcoholism for many people. Fight fire with fire, as they say.

The lord's prayer did bother me a little... I feel like a jerk for thinking that too. Everyone there was nothing but nice.

I look forward to trying this SMART meeting on Wednesday. I already arranged for my son's mother to watch him. If it doesn't work out for me I will suck it up and go right back to another AA meeting despite my objections. I need to feel like I am fighting.

Snarf

Mat, Akron's a decent sized city, so I'm sure there are several different AA meetings to choose from. Perhaps you could get some advice from someone who lives near you on a meeting that may be to your liking. I go to different meetings depending on my mood.

Good luck with the SMART meeting. Never been to one myself. I hope you'll let us know how it goes.

GettingStronger2

Wow, that is odd. If I heard that at an AA meeting, I'd probably walk out! Are there other meetings in your area? I have a lot near me, and some I like a lot, some I don't. ..they are all different. Good luck with SMART. . .let usknow how that goes!

Mat

I added the baby bit, no one actually said that. I am used to writing in that style on other forums and it being recognized as my own additional hyperbole. I meant that I don't understand how this woman thought that a specific deity had helped her in recovery that doesn't help other completely innocent people in much much more terrible situations. I was trying to explain why the whole thing doesn't jive right for me.

I'm really sorry that I even typed it in the first place, as it is an extremely crass way of getting my point across. Sorry guys. I always end up starting arguments, even when I honestly don't mean to.

ETA: This was totally the wrong place for me to vent about being frustrated with it all. Again, I apologize. I am glad that this works for so many people.

Time4me2Change

I just returned from my 7th or 8th meeting ( no did not do the 90 in 90..... but picked up a red chip today....whoo hoo, 90 days sober!!)

I feel the same way. I am an atheist. There is alot of talk of "god" at these meetings also. I do not say the pray, but I do stand there silently holding others hands.

For me, it is the comfort of being with others who are just like me, who will not judge me. I am like you also, argumentative. So many times I want to speak out when someone states "God has given me the strength to....."

To me, my family, my friends and myself give me the strength to stay sober each day. I have met some very nice people there, no one has approached me to "preach" per say, but somebody did invite me to a "spiritual retreat" which I nicely declined.

To each his own. Whatever gets them through... more power to them, and all the best.

For me, I thank my family everyday.

Try a couple of different ones. I have found the womens meeting on Mondays & an open meeting on Fridays that I like alot. You may find one you like better than the one you went to.

Different day, different time, different people.

LaFemme

I am looking forward to hearing about your SMARt meeting. Please let us know about it.

Oh and fyi, I got that the baby thing was hyperbole:-)

LexieCat

Well, you don't have to "get" how someone ELSE'S deity keeps them sober. That's between them and THEIR higher power--as they understand it.

One of the AA slogans I like very much is "Live and Let Live". Unless someone is trying to convince you that you have to believe in exactly the same higher power he or she has, you don't have to be concerned about their concept of it.