Eight Ball

Hi All

My AH of 22 yrs, recently had a relapse following 5 months of sobriety and all hell broke loose and I wasn't really equipped to deal with it as i had stopped going to Al-anon. He bullied and was verbally abusive to my daughter and I and it completely overwhelmed me.

He is in complete denial again, worse than before and says that he will continue to drink and If I don't like it, I can leave.

My daughter moved out of the family home this week and into a shared house with a couple of close friends. She has been planning it for a while due to her dads bullying.

Since the verbal abuse episode, I have been completely ignoring/not speaking with my AH and sleeping in the guest room. I returned to Al-anon too. This has given me some valuable head and heart space to figure out where I go from here.

As far as I can see, I have two choices - 1. Leave, struggle financially, be AH stress free, miss the good times with AH. 2. Stay, be financially better, have the good times with AH, live with AH and his dysfunctions! We have started to communicate again and enjoy each others company, so, I am thinking of committing to choice 2 but with some solid boundaries in place to help me to cope when AH has his 'moments'. That way I can minimize my own hurts and disappointments. I intend to continue with Al-anon and I am also planning on joining a new social activity and volunteer work that I can attend on my own.

Heres my rationalizing - AH's drinking beer doesnt normally bother me, sometimes hes a nice drinker, it only bothers me when he behaves like an arse, becomes offensive or verbally abusive, so if I can find a way to avoid or withdraw from his bad behaviors then I will be OK. In the past the money he spent bothered me,(although we can afford it) and I obsessed, checked up on him all the time, counting beer bottles etc but attending Al-anon stopped me from doing that, as I could see that was only affecting me. He is a hard worker (has been all our lives), we have a good life together, both our daughters have left home now, so were in another stage of our life and we enjoy each others company - bottom line, we love each other - although I do know he loves his beer more!

Can anyone get me started on some suitable boundaries to make living with a AH work. I have thought of a few:
1. Walk away when trouble is brewing and retreat to a 'safe' room
2. Dont argue, plead or yell
3. Dont have sex when he has been drinking

MissFixit

This is really up to you. No one knows what your needs and wants are.

Some people find money to be enough to stay in dangerous and unhealthy relationships. Some people are scared to change.

Be honest with yourself.

Eight Ball

I wasn't asking for a vote or encouragement and yes I am pleased that my daughter is living her life the way that she would like to.

The reason why I like going to Al-anon is everyone is friendly and non-judgmental. We have those who have been brought up in Alcoholic homes, those living with alcoholics, those who have left alcoholics, those living with alcoholics in recovery etc - a very broad set of circumstances and I thought the same would apply to the SR site.

I am not saying that my choice would be that of everyone's here either but we all do the best we can with what we know and what we have.

I am sure that someone will come along with a helpful reply soon.

suki44883

I'm not sure it's really possible to live happily with an active alcoholic, but yes, there are things you can do to make it a bit easier for yourself. Having a comfortable place to go is good. Not engaging is good. Having your own outside the home activities is something else you might consider. Me, I love to go to the book store, get a cup of coffee, find a comfortable chair and spend an hour or two reading a good book.

For me, it would depend on how often he drinks or gets in his "moods." If it's only occasional, and you can deal with it, then setting boundaries and finding other interests might work. If it were an every day thing, I know I couldn't stay in that situation.

The most important thing is that you be safe. Verbal abuse is bad enough, but if he ever were to get physical, then my advice would be to get out immediately. As I'm sure you know, alcoholism is progressive and it never gets better unless they stop drinking. While you may feel like you can live with what transpires now, please know that in all likelihood, it will get worse. Having a plan in place (saving money on your own, having all important papers in a safe place, just general safety precautions) in case you do decide to leave at some point, is a wise idea.

SoloMio

OK, I'm not sure if I'll be helpful, but I will say that I have so far stayed with my AH, who was sober from 1999-2004 and then relapsed, so it's been almost 6 years since the relapse, which, as you said, was mind-spinning for me. I had said to myself during his sobriety that if he ever went back to drinking, I would not stay. Like you, my children are adults, and I have no excuse like "I'm staying for the kids" to hold me back--although our family is extremely tight-knit and a divorce would definitely change all of our lives.

I identified with you with the drunken nonsense times as well as the fun, good times. I identified with the desire to maybe work more on myself so that I can detach lovingly from the idiotic times.

I've noticed that it's easy for others in this wonderful board to tell people like us that they would leave... in many cases they already have. It's difficult and painful to leave and most of the people here I think have either walked that path or are about to. So people like us are in the minority, and our motivations are questioned. I question my own motivations--constantly. But right now, frankly, aside from the times when my AH is not fun to be with because of his drinking, I love my life. I have a great job; I feel a sense of well-being and peace, which I try to protect by separating myself from the chaos; and I'm choosing the two-thirds Dr. Jekyll to the one-third Mr. Hyde.

I'm not saying this commitment is cut in stone. I may change my mind next week when we're on vacation and usually all the stops are out with regard to any kind of alcoholic restraint. One year, I came home from vacation and rented a beach house for the winter so I had a place to escape to--which was great, but it pointed to the fact that being with him on vacation really pushed my sanity to the limit.

My main source of strength is focusing on the present moment. I am a devotee and student of this kind of life. It started back when I was 16 and was in the high school production of Our Town, which was a life-long lesson about living our lives with intention. I read Eckhart Tolle and Byron Katie and Thich Nhat Hanh. I have taught myself to bring myself to the present moment and to constantly think--years from now, looking back, would I be proud of how I honored this day? Sometimes honoring our lives means accepting what is, and sometimes it means changing it, and that's what the serenity prayer is all about.

So today I am married. Tomorrow might be different. But I don't think about that. This moment is an opportunity for joy.

RollTide

I understand where you are. I tried option 2 for too long. The insanity worsened to a point that staying was no longer an option. We were divorced last Jan.

There is a woman in my AlAnon group who is living with her AH and seems to be happy by detaching from the craziness and even leaving home at times. While that just wouldn't work for me it does for her.

The disease does progress so keep in mind that while option 2 might work for a few years it might not work forever.

Good luck to you.

Learn2Live

YesButNo,

I think these do sound like good ways to live as peaceably as possible with a person who is actively drinking. I may be wrong but they don't sound like "boundaries" to me, rather, they sound like personal adjustments you make simply to live with the alcoholic. To me, a "boundary" is something I establish for myself to keep another person from intruding into my personal space, whether physical, emotional, spiritual, whatever.

But of course, I have difficulties with understanding and interpreting words so I am probably not the best person to give feedback on this. Anyway, most of my boundary work has been in setting and communicating my boundaries regarding the other person's behavior.

I think for mySELF, my life, I would try to:
1. Make sure I have a full-time job that gets me out of the house most of the day.
2. Make sure I have a lot of friends and acquaintances (maybe like a church group or something) and participate in activities with them, especially things during the week when the alcoholic is at home and wants to sit around the house drinking.
3. Learn to recognize, appreciate, and focus daily on what the person I live with DOES DO or does do right, and NOT what he or she does wrong.
4. Make sure I am working on my expectations of others and controlling my own behavior (my anger).

Not sure if any of this is close to what you are looking for but maybe something here helps?

Eight Ball

You were - extremely.

I have been doing some more reading and I think the key is learning to detach with love and honest boundaries, something I need to read and learn more about. I am not saying that things might change in the future for me too, but for now I think its at least worth giving it a go.

suki44883

Just curious...do you work outside of the home?

sodrained

i could not agree more...i actually left SR for awhile because of the jugemental posts. i too struggle to stay or go. i do want to go, but i cannot just walk out w/ 2 children in tow. if i was in danger, i'd go to a shelter, but i'm not in danger. my AH endangers himself. so for now, i seek legal help and i look for apartments and i plan things out--i'm a planner.

anyway--i think that keeping a journal and knowing your boundaries will help you continue w/ AH. but i also think you should have plans if it should escalate--where to go, who to call, etc. know that you can leave.
i agree it will probably never be an ideal or real functioning relationship while he's drinking. but only you can make that choice and i truly wish you luck.

Eight Ball

Thanks, some good ones here.

suki44883

i actually left SR for awhile because of the jugemental posts. i too struggle to stay or go. i do want to go, but i cannot just walk out w/ 2 children in tow. if i was in danger, i'd go to a shelter, but i'm not in danger. my AH endangers himself. so for now, i seek legal help and i look for apartments and i plan things out--i'm a planner.

I can understand this completely. I have had to leave the F&F forums for a while because I found myself being a little too harsh. I know that not everyone is like me. I was raised by a strong, independent single mother and I have grown to be pretty much like her. She always told me never to paint myself into a corner where I couldn't get out. While I think that is basically good advice, I do feel like maybe I took it a little farther than was actually good for me. In any case, sometimes I need to step back and realize that not everyone is like me and while I may think someone is making a huge mistake, it may be that they do things in baby steps where I would generally make a flying leap. The only time I do not hold back is when there is physical violence involved, especially if there are children in the picture. I will never encourage anyone to stay in a situation like that.

Eight Ball

Can I just say that I thought really hard about posting this thread on SR as sometimes there is a lot of negativity surrounding those that stay with Alcoholic partners and sometimes quite justifiably, and I worried about receiving those types of reply's to my thread. Eventually I decided to post my thread as I thought that maybe it would benefit those of us who do choose to stay.

I have found the SR community to be extremely helpful and there are some very wise and thoughtful people out there.

suki44883

I'm glad you did post it. Hopefully, you will find some ESH here that will help you with your dilemma, but at the same time, give you a little "heads up" as to some things you may not have considered.

I don't think anyone here is intentionally judgmental. It's just that some have been through some pretty horrific things and can recognize some behaviors that they feel impelled to mention. Written words do not carry over the voice inflection or body language that would soften them if they were spoken face to face. But, as I said, I don't think anyone here is purposely rude or overly judgmental.

NBYB...I truly hope you can find a way to be relatively happy in your marriage. I hope he stops drinking some day and gets with a program that will improve his life and attitude. If he doesn't, then I hope that you will find the strength to do what is truly best for you.

Eight Ball

Yes, I leave the home at 7.15am and get home at 6.30pm.

I know you didnt ask about him but -
My AH is up at 5am every day and has been working on Sat too just lately. Hes at home by about 4pm though and starts drinking most days and usually in bed before 9pm as he gets up so early.

Eight Ball

Anvilhead,

You were first to respond to my thread and it was a personal statement and blunt. I didn't really consider it an attack but it didn't answer what I had asked.

I am sorry that you have had to go through such a violent and tragic ending with your XABF, no one deserves that and I am pleased that you are sounding strong, doing so well now and still visiting this site.

We are all different and no matter how much I post on this website facts or events that have happened to me with my AH, they will never paint the true picture of my exact set of circumstances and the reasons for my choices. No two people will ever be the same.

Kittyboo

Hi Yes But... HUGS.

I have to say that I agree with Anvil. And I don't think that anyone was being judgemental here (JMO)

This is an interesting forum with an interesting mix of people. I rarely feel that there are judgemental posts. I say that because it's very difficult for anyone to be judgemental when they are coming from the same or very similar situation. If anything, I see more posts maybe displaying frustrations from those who have gone through years of pain and are finally out of it, able to see it from the other side, and giving the same advice to someone OVER and OVER..... and that advice just not quite sinking in. (Not directed at you YesBut, but what I see as a whole).

I know there are times when I have been frustrated here because someone will come searching for answers, wanting things to be okay and peaceful, but constantly NOT doing the work themselves to achieve that....but still coming and wanting to know why.
Indeed, everyone learns and grows at their own pace....but sometimes a tough nudge is needed at a certain point.

And I am going to say this as just a personal theory about why some may find it difficult to give "advice" on how to live comfortably with an A.... most of us have lost the A that we dearly loved. We wanted a life with them, we wanted to try and make it work, we wanted to do whatever it took to keep them in our lives..... and they are gone. There was no love, no comfort, no chance. So, to be able to offer someone advice on how to keep theirs, may be a little difficult. Yes, selfishly motivated. But still difficult. So, what many may translate into judgement, could really be coming from a different place.

YesBut, this is your life. I can't say that had my A not kicked me to the curb, I wouldn't STILL be there hoping it would work..... but since he did, it has forced me to look at a lot of internal things.
Bottom line is that you need to do whatever it is that makes YOU happy. If there is more pain than happiness, you will tire of it, hopefully. I think we ALL want for ourselves, and each other, relationships where we don't need to come here and find out ways we can remove ourselves emotionally from someone we love because it's too painful, but still keep them in our lives.
You have some good thoughts already listed, and I think you know what to do when it comes to those moments. You are definitely a smart chickie!

Learn2Live

Every one has their own motivations, their own reasons for staying, their own reasons for going. I think we can all agree that living with an alcoholic or addict is difficult, to say the least, and most often unhealthy. Maybe some people do not have the ABILITY to support themselves financially on their own. Marriage is, after all, often NECESSARY for financial survival or good quality of life, for MANY people. But IMO if you are being abused or severely controlled, it is better to get out than to stay.

I feel badly for folks (especially women but also men) who feel like they HAVE TO stay, or who feel they cannot survive without the alcoholic. But I got into Recovery when I was YOUNG, 29. I remember all the older ladies at my Saturday Night Al-Anon meeting always saying how GLAD they were to see so many people going to Al-Anon at such a young age. It's a whole 'nother ball game, IMO, to get into Recovery at 40, 50, and older. Or to get into Recovery when you have small children!!!

We all have to be realistic about our own situations and, IMO, try not to tell others what to do - because you never know when someone is actually going to follow your advice. THEY are the ones who have to live with it, not YOU (as the advisor). Take my BF for instance, he took his family's advice daily on how to focus his divorce from his AW, and now he is so far in debt from it, it's ridiculous. Of course, to THEM spending $30 or $40 thousand on a divorce attorney makes sense but to him? It did not. Especially because he had to borrow the money to pay for it.

ONLY YOU know your limitations and abilities. ONLY YOU can make the decision to leave or stay. That is why working on your OWN Recovery and getting support in your own community is so important.

Anyway, just my two cents. Keep pluggin' away at it YesButNo. I hope you have a peaceful life hon

Lola1024

Hi YesbutNo,

I won't offer you any advice - been in alanon too long the advice thing is something I am not comfortable with these days. I don't know you or your families details. I can only speak from my own experience.

I personally can not live with an active A in my space 24/7. I don't have the patience or the tolerance it takes. I have seen others do it - just does not work for me.

Using loving detachment and strong positive boundries set up to protect you would be a great place to start. Your boundries will not change him but they will give you a starting point to work from to get YOUR needs met. The focus must go off of him and on to YOU. Alcoholism is like a slow bleed in your life that saps your time, energies, finances and spirit. Renewing those things for yourself I believe can make you strong enough to move forward and make the best decisions for yourself.

Keep going to meetings, reading and exploring ideas and solutions for your life. You don't have to leave your AH now or ever. That choice is yours alone to make when you are ready. Alcoholism is progressive - he will likely not change but get worse before he gets better. You can begin to change right now for yourself regardless of his behavior and his addiction. Treat yourself with love and try it get some peace for you today.

Learn2Live

I am so WITH YOU Anvil. Of course, the details are different but I also walked away from it ALL, all the stuff, the goods, the life, the house, the COMFORT. I left with my little car, some clothes, and my Sears pine hutch that my brother put in his shed for me. It was a struggle for MANY years of being flat broke but I DID IT and it was worth every second because the Me that came out at the other end of that journey is a sober, confident, capable, self-assured, self-aware Me.