Have not posted in a while. Need help : (
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 902
Have not posted in a while. Need help : (
I'm not even sure where to start, except to say that I am struggling and I'm not sure what to do with myself.
I have been in a new relationship with a non-alcoholic for almost a year. I felt like everything I had always wanted fell into place. He communicated with me, was patient and seemed to just get me. I love the time we spend together. He makes me laugh constantly and we enjoy many of the same things. He's usually my best friend, except for this one issue. I know, I know. There is always just one issue : ) Well, it's actually three that result in one.
We have gotten into a few arguments where he has broken up with me. It has happened four times and each time we have talked it out. Other times, he stops speaking to me for a few days. These usually don't result in a break-up, but some discussion afterward. The first couple of times he broke up with me in anger, I did not tell him of my abandonment issues. I spoke with my therapist about this and she encouraged me to tell him so he would understand that while this may not be a big deal for some, it's triggering me and it is very painful for me. So I told him. One month later, another break-up. Another talk about how it was unacceptable to me. A month after that, another break-up. This time, a three hour discussion. He tells me that he feels I am too sensitive and too needy. He also told me I say "I love you" too much and only say it because I want to hear it back. As a side note, I tell everyone I love them if I, in fact, love them. I always tell my friends and family when I get off the phone with them or see them in person. So, here is why I am too sensitive and too needy.
I have not met his family yet. His parents do not even know I exist. They live a few hours away and come to the city usually every couple of months. He has invited me to meet them, then backed out. He is also about to be 37 and said that he does not want to introduce anyone to his parents until he is engaged because he does not want to deal with explaining it if this is not "it" for both of us. I accepted that and respect his decision. I also requested that he not invite me any longer if he was not serious because it was confusing. I have heard story after story about how his mom is from his friends, so I don't doubt what he is saying as far and the questioning he will have to go through if we break up, but I am having a hard time for reasons I will explain below.
The other part...he owns a business with his ex. They have been broken up for almost 7 years. He tells me that they do not discuss their private lives with each other, so she does not know about me. Ok. Fair enough. He was just on a business trip with her. I have no doubt nothing is going on between them. BUT, if I call, he waits to call back until he can either go outside away from her, or he calls from the bathroom if they are at a business dinner.
Both issues, admittedly, make me insecure. I feel invisible and hidden, much the same way I did growing up. My feelings did not matter and I was not allowed to have an opinion about anything. Even if I did, who cared? Add that to the fact that he breaks up with me in anger and all of my codependent triggers are firing at once. All I have learned is that if I do not behave, I will be left. My father did it, the ex pot smoker did it, the xabf did it and now this one.
He invited me on a trip to where his parents are a couple of weeks ago, then backed out. The reason is not important. I spent part of the weekend being upset, the other putting myself on the right track and detaching. What I figured out is that my needs are valid and my boundaries should be respected. After putting myself back on the rails, I moved on mentally and enjoyed our time together before he went on his business trip. Missing him and feeling needy, I made a few jokes about the affair he was likely having with his ex. We both laughed. He called the night he was flying back from the bathroom at a restaurant. I heard the echo when he spoke, so I said "How's the bathroom?" This completely pissed him off, for lack of a better term. I said I was sorry for upsetting him and we got off the phone. I texted and said I was sorry again, but told him I would prefer speaking to him when he can talk freely instead of him calling from the bathroom or hallway. I was not upset. The text was not mean. He wrote back that he was upset and not happy, then said he was "tired of this bull$*&^." That is the last I have heard from him. That was Wednesday night, which I did not get until Thursday morning.
I emailed to tell him I did not know what was going on and wanted to know if he needed space, was done or wanted to talk. That was last night. I have heard nothing since. I am fairly certain the relationship is over, but never expected he would do something like this and have so little respect as to just disappear. So here is me now...
The codie is in full force blaming myself for all of it. Her is the dialogue in my head...I wish I had not picked up the phone when he called. If I hadn't, we would be together right now because we had plans all weekend. If I never voiced my feelings about any of this, then everything would be fine. If I wasn't so sensitive and needy, then this would not be happening. You get the point. The other part of me is just devastated for other reasons.
I feel like I have worked so hard on my recovery and here I am in a relationship with someone who clearly does not respect my boundaries or care that the continual abandonment hurts me.
I went out with friends after work tonight. On the way home, something hit me, which devastated me even more. I have never been in a relationship where my partner did not abandoned me either through break ups or silent treatment. I do not know what it feels like for someone to say they will be there, even when I am less than perfect. I don't know what it is like to be in a true partnership with someone and that kills me.
I know I am enough on my own, but I also want to be married and have children. Maybe I only want that because I've never had it. I have to think about that more. I look at all these people who have not done even half the work on themselves that I have and they are in these relationships where they are not left continually. Oddly enough, being left is normal for me. How sad is that? I am beginning to wonder if ignorance is bliss. When will all of this work pay off, really? Yes, I am happier than I have ever been, but there is no forward motion otherwise. In regard to my relationship, while I am not with an alcoholic, I'm with an emotional abandoner. The faces change, but the result is the same.
I really do love my boyfriend, but I'm drained from all of this. It is excruciating. How can you possibly settle into a relationship when you are constantly left and/or punished for expressing how you feel? I am not saying I am perfect. Sometimes things don't come out right, and I apologize and correct when they don't, but I'm not sure any behavior warrants silent treatment and/or break ups out of anger.
Thanks for reading. Any thoughts, especially the really honest, kick in the pants ones, are appreciated : )
I have been in a new relationship with a non-alcoholic for almost a year. I felt like everything I had always wanted fell into place. He communicated with me, was patient and seemed to just get me. I love the time we spend together. He makes me laugh constantly and we enjoy many of the same things. He's usually my best friend, except for this one issue. I know, I know. There is always just one issue : ) Well, it's actually three that result in one.
We have gotten into a few arguments where he has broken up with me. It has happened four times and each time we have talked it out. Other times, he stops speaking to me for a few days. These usually don't result in a break-up, but some discussion afterward. The first couple of times he broke up with me in anger, I did not tell him of my abandonment issues. I spoke with my therapist about this and she encouraged me to tell him so he would understand that while this may not be a big deal for some, it's triggering me and it is very painful for me. So I told him. One month later, another break-up. Another talk about how it was unacceptable to me. A month after that, another break-up. This time, a three hour discussion. He tells me that he feels I am too sensitive and too needy. He also told me I say "I love you" too much and only say it because I want to hear it back. As a side note, I tell everyone I love them if I, in fact, love them. I always tell my friends and family when I get off the phone with them or see them in person. So, here is why I am too sensitive and too needy.
I have not met his family yet. His parents do not even know I exist. They live a few hours away and come to the city usually every couple of months. He has invited me to meet them, then backed out. He is also about to be 37 and said that he does not want to introduce anyone to his parents until he is engaged because he does not want to deal with explaining it if this is not "it" for both of us. I accepted that and respect his decision. I also requested that he not invite me any longer if he was not serious because it was confusing. I have heard story after story about how his mom is from his friends, so I don't doubt what he is saying as far and the questioning he will have to go through if we break up, but I am having a hard time for reasons I will explain below.
The other part...he owns a business with his ex. They have been broken up for almost 7 years. He tells me that they do not discuss their private lives with each other, so she does not know about me. Ok. Fair enough. He was just on a business trip with her. I have no doubt nothing is going on between them. BUT, if I call, he waits to call back until he can either go outside away from her, or he calls from the bathroom if they are at a business dinner.
Both issues, admittedly, make me insecure. I feel invisible and hidden, much the same way I did growing up. My feelings did not matter and I was not allowed to have an opinion about anything. Even if I did, who cared? Add that to the fact that he breaks up with me in anger and all of my codependent triggers are firing at once. All I have learned is that if I do not behave, I will be left. My father did it, the ex pot smoker did it, the xabf did it and now this one.
He invited me on a trip to where his parents are a couple of weeks ago, then backed out. The reason is not important. I spent part of the weekend being upset, the other putting myself on the right track and detaching. What I figured out is that my needs are valid and my boundaries should be respected. After putting myself back on the rails, I moved on mentally and enjoyed our time together before he went on his business trip. Missing him and feeling needy, I made a few jokes about the affair he was likely having with his ex. We both laughed. He called the night he was flying back from the bathroom at a restaurant. I heard the echo when he spoke, so I said "How's the bathroom?" This completely pissed him off, for lack of a better term. I said I was sorry for upsetting him and we got off the phone. I texted and said I was sorry again, but told him I would prefer speaking to him when he can talk freely instead of him calling from the bathroom or hallway. I was not upset. The text was not mean. He wrote back that he was upset and not happy, then said he was "tired of this bull$*&^." That is the last I have heard from him. That was Wednesday night, which I did not get until Thursday morning.
I emailed to tell him I did not know what was going on and wanted to know if he needed space, was done or wanted to talk. That was last night. I have heard nothing since. I am fairly certain the relationship is over, but never expected he would do something like this and have so little respect as to just disappear. So here is me now...
The codie is in full force blaming myself for all of it. Her is the dialogue in my head...I wish I had not picked up the phone when he called. If I hadn't, we would be together right now because we had plans all weekend. If I never voiced my feelings about any of this, then everything would be fine. If I wasn't so sensitive and needy, then this would not be happening. You get the point. The other part of me is just devastated for other reasons.
I feel like I have worked so hard on my recovery and here I am in a relationship with someone who clearly does not respect my boundaries or care that the continual abandonment hurts me.
I went out with friends after work tonight. On the way home, something hit me, which devastated me even more. I have never been in a relationship where my partner did not abandoned me either through break ups or silent treatment. I do not know what it feels like for someone to say they will be there, even when I am less than perfect. I don't know what it is like to be in a true partnership with someone and that kills me.
I know I am enough on my own, but I also want to be married and have children. Maybe I only want that because I've never had it. I have to think about that more. I look at all these people who have not done even half the work on themselves that I have and they are in these relationships where they are not left continually. Oddly enough, being left is normal for me. How sad is that? I am beginning to wonder if ignorance is bliss. When will all of this work pay off, really? Yes, I am happier than I have ever been, but there is no forward motion otherwise. In regard to my relationship, while I am not with an alcoholic, I'm with an emotional abandoner. The faces change, but the result is the same.
I really do love my boyfriend, but I'm drained from all of this. It is excruciating. How can you possibly settle into a relationship when you are constantly left and/or punished for expressing how you feel? I am not saying I am perfect. Sometimes things don't come out right, and I apologize and correct when they don't, but I'm not sure any behavior warrants silent treatment and/or break ups out of anger.
Thanks for reading. Any thoughts, especially the really honest, kick in the pants ones, are appreciated : )
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,892
I've been in relationships before where every little argument results in threats of breaking up. That would make anyone uneasy. To be honest, this guy sounds like he isn't really all that interested. He is way too secretive and flip-floppy with his emotions. He is definitely not relationship material for someone who has abandonment issues. It also sounds like he may not be done with his ex. All in all, he's not someone I would waste any more time on.
You deserve to have a happy life and not place your happiness in the hands of anyone else, most especially someone who is willing to end the relationship every time there is a minor problem.
That said, it sounds like you need more therapy for your own issues. Any healthy relationship requires that each individual be a whole person in their own right. Until we are comfortable with ourselves and are not dependent on another to give us self-worth, we still have a lot of work to do.
You deserve to have a happy life and not place your happiness in the hands of anyone else, most especially someone who is willing to end the relationship every time there is a minor problem.
That said, it sounds like you need more therapy for your own issues. Any healthy relationship requires that each individual be a whole person in their own right. Until we are comfortable with ourselves and are not dependent on another to give us self-worth, we still have a lot of work to do.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 902
Thanks, Anvil! I had not thought about it in those terms. What if "me" is needy and sensitive? I know that sounds odd, but who wants to be with needy and sensitive? Then again, I was not like this before the break ups started, so I should probably pay attention to that.
I will admit to being overly sensitive about some things and I find myself annoying when I do that. When I am I try to correct my behavior and look at why I am being triggered. But I guess my partner could recognize that I am not perfect and talk it out with me.
I will admit to being overly sensitive about some things and I find myself annoying when I do that. When I am I try to correct my behavior and look at why I am being triggered. But I guess my partner could recognize that I am not perfect and talk it out with me.
Awakening
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beautiful Texas hillcountry
Posts: 1,272
I know for a fact I have ALWAYS chosen emotionally unavailable women. What I've only RECENTLY figured out is that I do that because I am emotionally unavailable. I am afraid to let them in and risk being hurt. How about you?
I have all those abandonment issues from childhood, 'cause my mom used to leave me with my grandparents 3 hours away in the country, so she could go work in the city. Wah.
I'm sure she did the best she could. So good, now I know this. I just don't know what to do about it.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
I have all those abandonment issues from childhood, 'cause my mom used to leave me with my grandparents 3 hours away in the country, so she could go work in the city. Wah.
I'm sure she did the best she could. So good, now I know this. I just don't know what to do about it.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 689
NYC Chick, it's so nice to see you here again and I am so sorry you are feeling this way right now.
I can relate to much of your post as I have had the same feelings about abandonment, and I too have never been in a secure relationship where someone didn't "abandon" me.
I have learned a lot over time.
First, as I was reading your post....there were A LOT of red flags about this relationship. I remember I made all kinds of excuses when I was first involved with my X about his behavior, why he wasn't inviting me over, who he was hanging out with...etc etc.
We are often very blind to what is really going on when we are the one's involved.
I am not saying that you do not have any idea what he is doing...I am saying to acknowledge what are red flags, and clear ones.
I have a ton of friends in healthy relationships, and the one thing they have in common is that each of them involved makes each other feel secure in the relationship. There is no need for questionning where the relationship stands, or how one feels about the other because they treat each other in ways that makes it obvious to each other.
I have to say, I would be concerned as well if my BF was going on business trips with his ex, whether they are doing anything or not....and NOT telling her about you?? Ummmm, i'm sorry...but it just sounds like a convenient excuse.
Honest people are OPEN about their relationships.
God, I wish I had acknowledged that before getting my heart involved with my X.
When we care about someone, and we really want to be with them, it is so easy to ignore the things that are right in front of us.
You DESERVE someone who wants you to meet his parents (after a suitable amount of time yes
), and has no problem telling ANYONE that he is with YOU.
You of course know this guy better than I, or anyone else, but from my perspective, something about him just doesn't sound right.
I know too that when we have a great fear of abandonment we tend to give our own self -fullfilling prophecies. We can drive someone away while at the same time fearing that they will leave....we do it because we expect it to happen.
We also tend to be drawn to people that will fullfill this expectation. Until we come to complete terms with our fears, we will often still draw these kinds of people.
You should NEVER be afraid to express how you are feeling to the man you love.
Wishing I was hanging out with you tonight in NYC!
I can relate to much of your post as I have had the same feelings about abandonment, and I too have never been in a secure relationship where someone didn't "abandon" me.
I have learned a lot over time.
First, as I was reading your post....there were A LOT of red flags about this relationship. I remember I made all kinds of excuses when I was first involved with my X about his behavior, why he wasn't inviting me over, who he was hanging out with...etc etc.
We are often very blind to what is really going on when we are the one's involved.
I am not saying that you do not have any idea what he is doing...I am saying to acknowledge what are red flags, and clear ones.
I have a ton of friends in healthy relationships, and the one thing they have in common is that each of them involved makes each other feel secure in the relationship. There is no need for questionning where the relationship stands, or how one feels about the other because they treat each other in ways that makes it obvious to each other.
I have to say, I would be concerned as well if my BF was going on business trips with his ex, whether they are doing anything or not....and NOT telling her about you?? Ummmm, i'm sorry...but it just sounds like a convenient excuse.
Honest people are OPEN about their relationships.
God, I wish I had acknowledged that before getting my heart involved with my X.
When we care about someone, and we really want to be with them, it is so easy to ignore the things that are right in front of us.
You DESERVE someone who wants you to meet his parents (after a suitable amount of time yes
), and has no problem telling ANYONE that he is with YOU. You of course know this guy better than I, or anyone else, but from my perspective, something about him just doesn't sound right.
I know too that when we have a great fear of abandonment we tend to give our own self -fullfilling prophecies. We can drive someone away while at the same time fearing that they will leave....we do it because we expect it to happen.
We also tend to be drawn to people that will fullfill this expectation. Until we come to complete terms with our fears, we will often still draw these kinds of people.
You should NEVER be afraid to express how you are feeling to the man you love.
Wishing I was hanging out with you tonight in NYC!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 902
Thanks! You guys are the best!!!
In the way of clarifying, not justifying : ) He was with his ex for about 6 years. He moved out of state while she finished school. She wanted to move with him. He realized he did not want to be with her and ended the relationship. A year of calls, cards and letters full of blame how he ruined her life ensued. He knew he hurt her, so he kept communicating with her until she got it out of her system. He started his business here with other partners. She started hers elsewhere about 3 years ago. Through business contacts, they realized they were all in the same business and merged to cover the east and west coast. The business trips have happened twice. The other partner has gone with her and my boyfriend (ex?) has also gone. I have never thought he was not done with her, but I guess I could be completely wrong.
Coyote: Hmmm. Interesting thought. When I met him, I had been in recovery for almost two years. I had been no contact with xabf for a little over six months. I was completely over him and at the happiest point I had ever been in my life. I did not expect to meet the new guy when I did, but he brought a lot to my life and was exactly what I had always wanted. I thought the initial slowness of the relationship was good because I really wanted to make sure I was with someone who was everything I have always wanted. We were not exclusive with each other for about 4 months. NYC dating is much different that other places, I've learned. Anyway, I don't know if he was seeing other people, but I was not. I fully admit that I was scared to death to let him in. I did it inch by inch, but after I did, then the break ups started. God, that still seems odd to say. Maybe I am too closed off. I have to think about that more. I think I gave so much to xabf, and not in a healthy way, that I was afraid to give myself emotionally again for fear of repeating unhealthy, enmeshing behaviors.
Kitty: You are right. I deserve to be with someone who is proud to be with me and share that. For whatever reason (he's just not that into me, maybe) he is not. It really does hurt. As for the self-fulfilling prophecy. I think there is something to that as well. I want him to be with me, but he has proven over and over he won't, which perpetuates the cycle to me. I don't expect him to stick around after a fight any longer. I expect he will either not speak to me for a few days or break up with me. My therapist also told me I should never be afraid to express myself to someone I am involved with because the right person will understand. BUT my responses also have a lot to do with how the other person will receive it. I am far from perfect, but, again, even when I have been very respectful of his feelings, it has set him off. I don't know what his boundaries are. I'm not even sure he knows what his boundaries are.
In the way of clarifying, not justifying : ) He was with his ex for about 6 years. He moved out of state while she finished school. She wanted to move with him. He realized he did not want to be with her and ended the relationship. A year of calls, cards and letters full of blame how he ruined her life ensued. He knew he hurt her, so he kept communicating with her until she got it out of her system. He started his business here with other partners. She started hers elsewhere about 3 years ago. Through business contacts, they realized they were all in the same business and merged to cover the east and west coast. The business trips have happened twice. The other partner has gone with her and my boyfriend (ex?) has also gone. I have never thought he was not done with her, but I guess I could be completely wrong.
Coyote: Hmmm. Interesting thought. When I met him, I had been in recovery for almost two years. I had been no contact with xabf for a little over six months. I was completely over him and at the happiest point I had ever been in my life. I did not expect to meet the new guy when I did, but he brought a lot to my life and was exactly what I had always wanted. I thought the initial slowness of the relationship was good because I really wanted to make sure I was with someone who was everything I have always wanted. We were not exclusive with each other for about 4 months. NYC dating is much different that other places, I've learned. Anyway, I don't know if he was seeing other people, but I was not. I fully admit that I was scared to death to let him in. I did it inch by inch, but after I did, then the break ups started. God, that still seems odd to say. Maybe I am too closed off. I have to think about that more. I think I gave so much to xabf, and not in a healthy way, that I was afraid to give myself emotionally again for fear of repeating unhealthy, enmeshing behaviors.
Kitty: You are right. I deserve to be with someone who is proud to be with me and share that. For whatever reason (he's just not that into me, maybe) he is not. It really does hurt. As for the self-fulfilling prophecy. I think there is something to that as well. I want him to be with me, but he has proven over and over he won't, which perpetuates the cycle to me. I don't expect him to stick around after a fight any longer. I expect he will either not speak to me for a few days or break up with me. My therapist also told me I should never be afraid to express myself to someone I am involved with because the right person will understand. BUT my responses also have a lot to do with how the other person will receive it. I am far from perfect, but, again, even when I have been very respectful of his feelings, it has set him off. I don't know what his boundaries are. I'm not even sure he knows what his boundaries are.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 566
Aw, NYC Chick, sending you a hug.
I could have written this post myself with regard to the realizations about being abandoned in relationship. AND I've been emotionally unavailable, too.
I agree that there were a lot of red flags. The breakups were the smaller symptoms, in my experience. For me, once the break-up cycle began it felt like we were in the "relationship death throes". It was just a matter of time after that, and it was ugly, me going well past the expiration date of a deal that was as good as done, and that's been the pattern of my 3 relationships...painful. I have done the apologizing, taking it all on and it didn't get better for any substantial amount of time.
I'm sorry you're in pain, I totally get that. Sending you hugs and asking, have you been emotionally abandoning yourself...?
posie
I could have written this post myself with regard to the realizations about being abandoned in relationship. AND I've been emotionally unavailable, too.
I agree that there were a lot of red flags. The breakups were the smaller symptoms, in my experience. For me, once the break-up cycle began it felt like we were in the "relationship death throes". It was just a matter of time after that, and it was ugly, me going well past the expiration date of a deal that was as good as done, and that's been the pattern of my 3 relationships...painful. I have done the apologizing, taking it all on and it didn't get better for any substantial amount of time.
I'm sorry you're in pain, I totally get that. Sending you hugs and asking, have you been emotionally abandoning yourself...?
posie
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 902
Thanks for the hugs Posies.
I have been emotionally abandoned more than I care to admit. My father used to just "disown" me and my sisters when he was upset with us. That's where it all started.
With xabf, I used to threaten to leave all the time. My thought was if he was going to do it, I was going to beat him to the punch. That's not the first relationship that happened in either. I went to couples counseling with xabf and learned that doing that was not going to help the situation, so I would sit through the argument. Most of them irrational because of his alcoholism, but I learned not to leave.
With the new guy, I threatened to leave once. I did nothing to stop me. My therapist and I laughed about my behavior and his response to it. I realized very quick he would not chase me. That was the last time I did it. Now he does it to me. Ironic. I also don't leave in a fight that does not result in a break up. I really hate fighting, but made a commitment to myself to stay, even when angry, because I did not want to create any abandonment issue for him in our relationship. I suspect he has them from other relationships where he has been cheated on or where he was with an alcoholic that would just walk away from him. He has never voiced this, just my suspicion.
I have been emotionally abandoned more than I care to admit. My father used to just "disown" me and my sisters when he was upset with us. That's where it all started.
With xabf, I used to threaten to leave all the time. My thought was if he was going to do it, I was going to beat him to the punch. That's not the first relationship that happened in either. I went to couples counseling with xabf and learned that doing that was not going to help the situation, so I would sit through the argument. Most of them irrational because of his alcoholism, but I learned not to leave.
With the new guy, I threatened to leave once. I did nothing to stop me. My therapist and I laughed about my behavior and his response to it. I realized very quick he would not chase me. That was the last time I did it. Now he does it to me. Ironic. I also don't leave in a fight that does not result in a break up. I really hate fighting, but made a commitment to myself to stay, even when angry, because I did not want to create any abandonment issue for him in our relationship. I suspect he has them from other relationships where he has been cheated on or where he was with an alcoholic that would just walk away from him. He has never voiced this, just my suspicion.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: back from the brink
Posts: 457
NYC Chick: There is a saying "still waters run deep" - and I think there is more going on in this guy's head and heart than he's letting on. He sounds torn, and unable to commit to a full relationship.
Darn, it is frustrating, isn't it... life and people can be so complicated. Why can't things be simpler.
You sound quite healthy to me, you are in touch with your feelings, your needs. That is a good place to be. I'm quite sure you'll find someone who will be just right for you, maybe this isn't the one, but a practice run!
Darn, it is frustrating, isn't it... life and people can be so complicated. Why can't things be simpler.
You sound quite healthy to me, you are in touch with your feelings, your needs. That is a good place to be. I'm quite sure you'll find someone who will be just right for you, maybe this isn't the one, but a practice run!
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
So I told him. One month later, another break-up. Another talk about how it was unacceptable to me. A month after that, another break-up. This time, a three hour discussion. He tells me that he feels I am too sensitive and too needy. He also told me I say "I love you" too much and only say it because I want to hear it back. As a side note, I tell everyone I love them if I, in fact, love them. I always tell my friends and family when I get off the phone with them or see them in person. So, here is why I am too sensitive and too needy.
Ah yes, abandonment, my old friend. My PTSD trigger. I have, (or should said had, because he has done it again) an online boyfriend that I talked to since September of last year. We met early November, it seemed to go well. I know I liked him alot. He told me he was going hunting over thanksgiving weekend. Okay, talk to me when you get back. Well, I didnt hear from him again until mid January. I had sent many emails begging him to at least tell me he was alive. He didnt do that. He just let me know that he was married, wife found some of my emails to him and he couldnt get in touch with me.
Really? When I was in a panic about whether you were alive or dead? Couldnt even drive to a payphone to tell me that?
So, I explain to him that I have PTSD too. (He has it from some experiences in Afgahanistan). It started when I was a kid, my father was in the Army, during the Viet Nam War, he went to many schools for training, and went on two tours of duty there, but even when he was home he was an abusive alcoholic. So when he was there he was scary and not really there if you know what I mean.
My first husband threatened to divorce me and take our son all the time. His family had the money and the pull to do it. I was drinking and deeply depressed. He was taken from me at my mothers house.
My best friend in my adult life was killed on her way to work one night. I was staying at her house, I heard the crash on the highway behind her house. The cops found her address and asked me to come and identify her cause there were no relatives nearby.
My second husband abandoned me over and over by cheating on me every chance he got. If he thought he wasnt getting enough sex from me, he used that as an excuse/threat to go to another woman. I was so low by now I would beg him to stay and not cheat.
So, I know abandonment and I know how it feels in your gut. The twisting, worrying sick feeling that something bad has happened or will happen.
I explained all this to the latest "boyfriend" and after he made a quick run from his wife to my house, and I gave him lots of ways to leave (if he wanted to) he found an obstacle for every damn one of them. I thought why are you here? What do you want?
He decided to go home, and guess what, didnt write anything for four days, and he said,
(after my well reasoned explanation for my fears)
"I am okay, I will write when I can."
Okay. Thanks a lot.
Geez.
I think I am getting quicker on the uptake now.
I am wondering if he thinks my PTSD isnt "real" cause it is not war related. I don't know, but I remember being in fear of my father the first ten years of my life.
Eggshells everywhere, and oh, my when he heard one and was drunk, well, I don't wanna go there.
Beth
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,249
NYC Chick, I totally understand how you feel about being abandoned, and that comes from early childhood, and your father. It is not your fault that you feel that way, and it's kind of the law of attraction thing, we get what we fear. I feared my son would become an addict. He did. I was abandoned by my father, and my son's father abandoned me when my son was a baby. I can honestly say those men, didn't love me.
It sounds to me like this guy is not ready to commit. He keeps you in the background for whatever reasons. Of which he is not willing to discuss. He is playing a game, and putting it off on you as if you are a cling on and a needy person. You deserve to be with a man, who understands your needs. If you need security, and he loves you, he will provide that for you. Your not a head case or a psycho. He seems to be the one with the issue. He isn't even man enough to tell you, I want to end the relationship. He is abandoning you, by not giving you closure.
If I were you, regardless of how much I feel for him, I wouldn't accept his calls, unless it were going to help me in some way. Move forward, because when a man really loves you, he will do whatever it takes, to comfort you and make you feel loved and secure. I haven't heard a thing about this guy doing any of that for you. You deserve better, and don't let someone like this guy, who is probably terrified of commitment to trigger you into a relapse. Hold on to your sobriety, and let nothing and No one take that away from you.
Look at the bright side. If this relationship is over, GOD must have someone so perfect for you, coming your way. Hang on, and be strong. If it were me, I wouldn't take his calls if he does call. He has a pattern of on and off. Sounds like he shuts off, whenever he can't handle something. You don't need him. He might even be married for all you know. He calls you from the bathroom, and keeps you from meeting his family. All of these things are red flags that this guy is hiding something, or totally afraid of having a close relationship with you. You can do better, and you will.
It sounds to me like this guy is not ready to commit. He keeps you in the background for whatever reasons. Of which he is not willing to discuss. He is playing a game, and putting it off on you as if you are a cling on and a needy person. You deserve to be with a man, who understands your needs. If you need security, and he loves you, he will provide that for you. Your not a head case or a psycho. He seems to be the one with the issue. He isn't even man enough to tell you, I want to end the relationship. He is abandoning you, by not giving you closure.
If I were you, regardless of how much I feel for him, I wouldn't accept his calls, unless it were going to help me in some way. Move forward, because when a man really loves you, he will do whatever it takes, to comfort you and make you feel loved and secure. I haven't heard a thing about this guy doing any of that for you. You deserve better, and don't let someone like this guy, who is probably terrified of commitment to trigger you into a relapse. Hold on to your sobriety, and let nothing and No one take that away from you.
Look at the bright side. If this relationship is over, GOD must have someone so perfect for you, coming your way. Hang on, and be strong. If it were me, I wouldn't take his calls if he does call. He has a pattern of on and off. Sounds like he shuts off, whenever he can't handle something. You don't need him. He might even be married for all you know. He calls you from the bathroom, and keeps you from meeting his family. All of these things are red flags that this guy is hiding something, or totally afraid of having a close relationship with you. You can do better, and you will.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
Look at the bright side. If this relationship is over, GOD must have someone so perfect for you, coming your way. Hang on, and be strong. If it were me, I wouldn't take his calls if he does call. He has a pattern of on and off. Sounds like he shuts off, whenever he can't handle something. You don't need him. He might even be married for all you know. He calls you from the bathroom, and keeps you from meeting his family. All of these things are red flags that this guy is hiding something, or totally afraid of having a close relationship with you. You can do better, and you will.
after my completely selfish rant about my abandonment issues, you made my point.
yeah, if this man has no respect for you issues, your fears, or you cannot talk about them, then he is not the one.
I am sorry. for you NYC, and for me.
But we deserve better. Already been in the firestorm, time for some peace, yes?
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,057
NYC, your abandonment issues and his commitment issues are just a toxic combination. Period.
Those of us with abandonment issues are naturally drawn to non-committers. After my breakup with XABF (non-committer) I learned that I was looking for someone like my dad (abandoner) to pursue me, love me, and never leave me, because maybe somehow that would heal the old, deep wounds that my dad left. Not a good strategy for finding healing! I learned that the painful, hard way.
This guy will never heal your abandonment wounds. If anything, he's reopened them, but you can view this as an opportunity to work through this, learn from it, and start healing the old, deep wounds.
I am sorry you're hurting. You deserve someone who is willing and able to commit to you, not someone who has you living in constant fear of being left. You will get there...you have a grasp on your issues. Now it's time to continue the healing, even if it's a long haul, take care of yourself, and bring yourself to that point where you learn to say no immediately when the first red flags start waving.
Those of us with abandonment issues are naturally drawn to non-committers. After my breakup with XABF (non-committer) I learned that I was looking for someone like my dad (abandoner) to pursue me, love me, and never leave me, because maybe somehow that would heal the old, deep wounds that my dad left. Not a good strategy for finding healing! I learned that the painful, hard way.
This guy will never heal your abandonment wounds. If anything, he's reopened them, but you can view this as an opportunity to work through this, learn from it, and start healing the old, deep wounds.
I am sorry you're hurting. You deserve someone who is willing and able to commit to you, not someone who has you living in constant fear of being left. You will get there...you have a grasp on your issues. Now it's time to continue the healing, even if it's a long haul, take care of yourself, and bring yourself to that point where you learn to say no immediately when the first red flags start waving.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Hi NYC chick.
We seem to share timelines and feelings. I am in the same place as you are... opening my eyes... it makes me sad... and angry... to see myself doing the same mistakes.
My conclusion in therapy today is that I REALLY, REALLY MISS MYSELF. Don't you miss yourself? I do miss myself.
I am exhausted of being a chameleon trying to fit someone else or some context. I have begged for crumbs of "love" from losers and people who don't know it either.
Today I got all teary because I was asked to mention memories of when I was 5. (OK now I got all teary again infront of the screen). I recalled when I fell asleep in the living room and my dad carried me to the bed.
That happened once.
And according to my calculations I have lived 10220 nights.
Of course it is going to take time to heal those huge absences.... when I felt teary I thought NOOO NOT AGAIN daddy isssues but Oh Yes there is still something huge there. OK. I can do it. For my benefit..
coyote is so right...... I am abandoned because I abandon myself often... I am not taken seriously because I do not take myself seriously.
In therapy I am learning my low self esteem causes many of my troubles. I hope you keep working o your own issues. As for the pay off for the hard work, I have the same question.
I am walking right next to you... there is much hope for the future, NYC chick. For YOUR future. And for me,too
We seem to share timelines and feelings. I am in the same place as you are... opening my eyes... it makes me sad... and angry... to see myself doing the same mistakes.
My conclusion in therapy today is that I REALLY, REALLY MISS MYSELF. Don't you miss yourself? I do miss myself.
I am exhausted of being a chameleon trying to fit someone else or some context. I have begged for crumbs of "love" from losers and people who don't know it either.
Today I got all teary because I was asked to mention memories of when I was 5. (OK now I got all teary again infront of the screen). I recalled when I fell asleep in the living room and my dad carried me to the bed.
That happened once.
And according to my calculations I have lived 10220 nights.
Of course it is going to take time to heal those huge absences.... when I felt teary I thought NOOO NOT AGAIN daddy isssues but Oh Yes there is still something huge there. OK. I can do it. For my benefit..
coyote is so right...... I am abandoned because I abandon myself often... I am not taken seriously because I do not take myself seriously.
In therapy I am learning my low self esteem causes many of my troubles. I hope you keep working o your own issues. As for the pay off for the hard work, I have the same question.
I am walking right next to you... there is much hope for the future, NYC chick. For YOUR future. And for me,too
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 218
NYC chick I'm so sorry that you're in this place. When I first signed up on SR I was a mess and I remember reading your whole story. It literally helped to lift me out of a hole.
I remember (I may be wrong) that you had read the Toby Rice Drews books? She had an amazing tip of the month recently about people who have dated alcoholics being more willing to put up with other stuff ("fatal flaws") than other people are. This is the link and it's January's tip:
Getting Them Sober- Recovery Communications
You are an amazing woman and you've described what, to my objective eye, reads like a whole list that reeks of disrespect. Any relationship that has to be "secret" is off. Okay, maybe he has issues with his overbearing mother - that's fair. But an ex from that long ago? Making calls in a bathroom? Leaving you repeatedly when you've told him you have abandonment issues?
I think the great times we "can" have when things go smoothly in these relationships blind us sometimes to the nuts and bolts and scaffolding that are necessary to make a real, healthy relationship. Respect. Honesty. Openness. Trust. How you disagree and resolve it is absolutely crucial - it has to be constructive and both of you have to feel heard. If it's game over every time you step out of line then it is indeed a hostage situation.
Honey, you deserve better. The foundations of this thing aren't very solid and I don't think for a minute that you're too needy. I don't know any healthy woman who would be cool with secret calls from the bathroom while their partner was on a trip with the ex who didn't know about her. That's crazy. Also from Toby Rice Drews - they give us peanuts, we give them elephants. For anyone who has dated an alcoholic or addict, the problem is not that we're too needy - it's that we're too accommodating and too ready to make excuses.
This man is disrespecting you and playing mind games. Period. YOu have come such a long way - you get to decide what you deserve. I don't think this is what you deserve but you have to decide what you're willing to put up with.
Hugs,
SL.
I remember (I may be wrong) that you had read the Toby Rice Drews books? She had an amazing tip of the month recently about people who have dated alcoholics being more willing to put up with other stuff ("fatal flaws") than other people are. This is the link and it's January's tip:
Getting Them Sober- Recovery Communications
You are an amazing woman and you've described what, to my objective eye, reads like a whole list that reeks of disrespect. Any relationship that has to be "secret" is off. Okay, maybe he has issues with his overbearing mother - that's fair. But an ex from that long ago? Making calls in a bathroom? Leaving you repeatedly when you've told him you have abandonment issues?
I think the great times we "can" have when things go smoothly in these relationships blind us sometimes to the nuts and bolts and scaffolding that are necessary to make a real, healthy relationship. Respect. Honesty. Openness. Trust. How you disagree and resolve it is absolutely crucial - it has to be constructive and both of you have to feel heard. If it's game over every time you step out of line then it is indeed a hostage situation.
Honey, you deserve better. The foundations of this thing aren't very solid and I don't think for a minute that you're too needy. I don't know any healthy woman who would be cool with secret calls from the bathroom while their partner was on a trip with the ex who didn't know about her. That's crazy. Also from Toby Rice Drews - they give us peanuts, we give them elephants. For anyone who has dated an alcoholic or addict, the problem is not that we're too needy - it's that we're too accommodating and too ready to make excuses.
This man is disrespecting you and playing mind games. Period. YOu have come such a long way - you get to decide what you deserve. I don't think this is what you deserve but you have to decide what you're willing to put up with.
Hugs,
SL.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
hi nyc-chick-
i think you've done a great job identifying how your issues have contributed to choosing this particular partner. obviously, your very valid needs are not being met in this relationship. your recovery work is showing!
just to give you some feedback, i feel it is a red flag that your man doesn't tell the significant people in his life that you even exist. that's not ok and tells of his commitment to the relationship, in my opinion.
i feel that his relationship with his ex might be a good indicator of how he might treat you. do you really want to be chasing his affection as she did? and perhaps still does?
it sounds as though he wants a casual relationship with no messy cleanup. if that's what you too want, then great. if not, i would just keep doing your recovery work and observing the situation and working with your therapist and you'll probably get involved in other things to fill you life rather than this particular guy.
naive
i think you've done a great job identifying how your issues have contributed to choosing this particular partner. obviously, your very valid needs are not being met in this relationship. your recovery work is showing!
just to give you some feedback, i feel it is a red flag that your man doesn't tell the significant people in his life that you even exist. that's not ok and tells of his commitment to the relationship, in my opinion.
i feel that his relationship with his ex might be a good indicator of how he might treat you. do you really want to be chasing his affection as she did? and perhaps still does?
it sounds as though he wants a casual relationship with no messy cleanup. if that's what you too want, then great. if not, i would just keep doing your recovery work and observing the situation and working with your therapist and you'll probably get involved in other things to fill you life rather than this particular guy.
naive
Awakening
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beautiful Texas hillcountry
Posts: 1,272
Originally Posted by stilllearning 
NYC chick I'm so sorry that you're in this place. When I first signed up on SR I was a mess and I remember reading your whole story. It literally helped to lift me out of a hole.
I remember (I may be wrong) that you had read the Toby Rice Drews books? She had an amazing tip of the month recently about people who have dated alcoholics being more willing to put up with other stuff ("fatal flaws") than other people are. This is the link and it's January's tip:
Getting Them Sober- Recovery Communications
You are an amazing woman and you've described what, to my objective eye, reads like a whole list that reeks of disrespect. Any relationship that has to be "secret" is off. Okay, maybe he has issues with his overbearing mother - that's fair. But an ex from that long ago? Making calls in a bathroom? Leaving you repeatedly when you've told him you have abandonment issues?
I think the great times we "can" have when things go smoothly in these relationships blind us sometimes to the nuts and bolts and scaffolding that are necessary to make a real, healthy relationship. Respect. Honesty. Openness. Trust. How you disagree and resolve it is absolutely crucial - it has to be constructive and both of you have to feel heard. If it's game over every time you step out of line then it is indeed a hostage situation.
Honey, you deserve better. The foundations of this thing aren't very solid and I don't think for a minute that you're too needy. I don't know any healthy woman who would be cool with secret calls from the bathroom while their partner was on a trip with the ex who didn't know about her. That's crazy. Also from Toby Rice Drews - they give us peanuts, we give them elephants. For anyone who has dated an alcoholic or addict, the problem is not that we're too needy - it's that we're too accommodating and too ready to make excuses.
This man is disrespecting you and playing mind games. Period. YOu have come such a long way - you get to decide what you deserve. I don't think this is what you deserve but you have to decide what you're willing to put up with.
Hugs,
SL.
I remember (I may be wrong) that you had read the Toby Rice Drews books? She had an amazing tip of the month recently about people who have dated alcoholics being more willing to put up with other stuff ("fatal flaws") than other people are. This is the link and it's January's tip:
Getting Them Sober- Recovery Communications
You are an amazing woman and you've described what, to my objective eye, reads like a whole list that reeks of disrespect. Any relationship that has to be "secret" is off. Okay, maybe he has issues with his overbearing mother - that's fair. But an ex from that long ago? Making calls in a bathroom? Leaving you repeatedly when you've told him you have abandonment issues?
I think the great times we "can" have when things go smoothly in these relationships blind us sometimes to the nuts and bolts and scaffolding that are necessary to make a real, healthy relationship. Respect. Honesty. Openness. Trust. How you disagree and resolve it is absolutely crucial - it has to be constructive and both of you have to feel heard. If it's game over every time you step out of line then it is indeed a hostage situation.
Honey, you deserve better. The foundations of this thing aren't very solid and I don't think for a minute that you're too needy. I don't know any healthy woman who would be cool with secret calls from the bathroom while their partner was on a trip with the ex who didn't know about her. That's crazy. Also from Toby Rice Drews - they give us peanuts, we give them elephants. For anyone who has dated an alcoholic or addict, the problem is not that we're too needy - it's that we're too accommodating and too ready to make excuses.
This man is disrespecting you and playing mind games. Period. YOu have come such a long way - you get to decide what you deserve. I don't think this is what you deserve but you have to decide what you're willing to put up with.
Hugs,
SL.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 902
Thank you all so much! I love the support here and always appreciate it : )
First, he is definitely not married. We spend most of our time at his house. There are no mysterious trips out of town or anything. If that was the case, I would have run long ago. Second, he disclosed business with his ex on the second or third date because he wanted to make sure it was not an issue. It was not until I realized she did not know I existed. It's not even so much her, but his family. It makes for an odd exchange when he leaves to meet them when they are in town and I am not invited. It hurts for the reasons I described above.
The thing is that he meets my needs in all other areas. I really love being with him. he is very supportive of everything I do and great to brainstorm things tat come up with. He is really wonderful in many respects. I just can't take the silent treatment and break ups. I think the more emotionally involved I allow
myself to get, the worse my anxiety gets about stuff. I think that's normal given my past. But how to deal with it is the issue.
My therapist tells me to check in with myself often so I am not going off the rails and denying my own needs. I have been doing that and all I keep thinking is that I deserve someone that will stay even when I am not perfect. I can't change him, so all I canhope for at this point, assuming we speak again, is that he wiil understand where I am at. I know I can't keep going through the roller coaster break up stuff.
The other thing is, despite having not met his family, the level of committment is fine with me. We have talked about marriage at a basic level. We have the same ideas, so I'm not in a hurry to get married, but maybe I'm sending the signal that I am and he's freaking out. Who knows.
As for my gut...it's usually pretty good and I have learned to deferentiate between the irrational thoughts and gut feeling. Nothing is telling me to run. I could be totally wrong. Time will tell.
For today, I'm going to try to breathe and keep myself on the rails.
First, he is definitely not married. We spend most of our time at his house. There are no mysterious trips out of town or anything. If that was the case, I would have run long ago. Second, he disclosed business with his ex on the second or third date because he wanted to make sure it was not an issue. It was not until I realized she did not know I existed. It's not even so much her, but his family. It makes for an odd exchange when he leaves to meet them when they are in town and I am not invited. It hurts for the reasons I described above.
The thing is that he meets my needs in all other areas. I really love being with him. he is very supportive of everything I do and great to brainstorm things tat come up with. He is really wonderful in many respects. I just can't take the silent treatment and break ups. I think the more emotionally involved I allow
myself to get, the worse my anxiety gets about stuff. I think that's normal given my past. But how to deal with it is the issue.
My therapist tells me to check in with myself often so I am not going off the rails and denying my own needs. I have been doing that and all I keep thinking is that I deserve someone that will stay even when I am not perfect. I can't change him, so all I canhope for at this point, assuming we speak again, is that he wiil understand where I am at. I know I can't keep going through the roller coaster break up stuff.
The other thing is, despite having not met his family, the level of committment is fine with me. We have talked about marriage at a basic level. We have the same ideas, so I'm not in a hurry to get married, but maybe I'm sending the signal that I am and he's freaking out. Who knows.
As for my gut...it's usually pretty good and I have learned to deferentiate between the irrational thoughts and gut feeling. Nothing is telling me to run. I could be totally wrong. Time will tell.
For today, I'm going to try to breathe and keep myself on the rails.
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
I feel like I have worked so hard on my recovery and here I am in a relationship with someone who clearly does not respect my boundaries or care that the continual abandonment hurts me.
Of course, I spent years realizing my AH didn't love or respect me. But I stayed anyway. That's what love was for me, growing up in an abusive, alcoholic home. And will keep searching out these experiences until I release the need to try to have power over my issues from the past.
Awareness is the first step in change.
Here's a big hug for you. Keep soul searching Sister. You're getting there.
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