Couples counseling
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 277
Couples counseling
This is going to be interesting. My AH made an appt for us with a new counselor.
A year ago, I found a counselor (and am still seeing her with my son). He "hates that wench" and felt that all she did was focus on the alcohol (duh!).
So fast forward a year - his drinking is still bad - only he's starting later so he doesn't understand why that's a problem if my son and I are asleep. There are NO completely sober days. Ever. The good news is that by not drinking during the day, we are spared some of the craziness. He's not missing his mouth with his fork at dinnertime (gah!). He's not going to bed for the night at 7pm.
We're at a real standoff because I work too and have taken to sleeping in the guest bedroom during the week so I don't have to deal with the snoring and nastiness that keeps me from getting rest during the week. He says I'm pushing him away. There is no real physical closeness and now we're even talking less and less.
This may seal the deal about separation / divorce.
I know the majority of people on the board will wonder why I haven't left yet but it is a tough decision. This board has made me more ready for the idea of splitting up, and for that, I am forever thankful.
I guess I'm looking for support for this meeting with the new counselor and wondering what your experiences in couples therapy have been like.
A year ago, I found a counselor (and am still seeing her with my son). He "hates that wench" and felt that all she did was focus on the alcohol (duh!).
So fast forward a year - his drinking is still bad - only he's starting later so he doesn't understand why that's a problem if my son and I are asleep. There are NO completely sober days. Ever. The good news is that by not drinking during the day, we are spared some of the craziness. He's not missing his mouth with his fork at dinnertime (gah!). He's not going to bed for the night at 7pm.
We're at a real standoff because I work too and have taken to sleeping in the guest bedroom during the week so I don't have to deal with the snoring and nastiness that keeps me from getting rest during the week. He says I'm pushing him away. There is no real physical closeness and now we're even talking less and less.
This may seal the deal about separation / divorce.
I know the majority of people on the board will wonder why I haven't left yet but it is a tough decision. This board has made me more ready for the idea of splitting up, and for that, I am forever thankful.
I guess I'm looking for support for this meeting with the new counselor and wondering what your experiences in couples therapy have been like.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
I went to 3 sessions with my xah. The premise was that she would help us communicate or work some things out so we could co-parent better. She was my xah's counselor first. I know my xah had a different view of why we were there. We talked about all that, out in the open, at the first session. We filled out all the forms that people would do for couples counseling. The first two sessions especially felt a lot like couples counseling to me even though we had that first conversation. My xah was not excepting that I was really going to follow through with the divorce. We were still in the same house at that point.
I thought the counseling was really good fwiw. She really had a good handle on things and had addictions background.
She then said that she would flat out refuses to do marriage counseling until he worked a recovery program. She listed out several options for recovery programs, told him to figure it out, and then let her know. Of course he didn't do that.
He *still* doesn't get it or except it. He still sends me accusational guilt inducing blaming emails about not working it out, not understanding why I wouldn't do counseling, blah blah blah. So while it didn't really help anything between him and I, it sure helped me. I don't regret it at all. I went on to see her on my own after that. Dh had first choice to keep her as a counselor and he didn't want to.
That is my experience. The thing I would recommend is to make sure the counselor has a background in addictions as I think that makes all the difference. Typical couples therapy will not apply when addiction is present.
I thought the counseling was really good fwiw. She really had a good handle on things and had addictions background.
She then said that she would flat out refuses to do marriage counseling until he worked a recovery program. She listed out several options for recovery programs, told him to figure it out, and then let her know. Of course he didn't do that.
He *still* doesn't get it or except it. He still sends me accusational guilt inducing blaming emails about not working it out, not understanding why I wouldn't do counseling, blah blah blah. So while it didn't really help anything between him and I, it sure helped me. I don't regret it at all. I went on to see her on my own after that. Dh had first choice to keep her as a counselor and he didn't want to.
That is my experience. The thing I would recommend is to make sure the counselor has a background in addictions as I think that makes all the difference. Typical couples therapy will not apply when addiction is present.
Awakening
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beautiful Texas hillcountry
Posts: 1,272
Originally Posted by whereisthisgoin 
I guess I'm looking for support for this meeting with the new counselor and wondering what your experiences in couples therapy have been like.
This was before our daughter was born and before "the wheels fell off", I would say during the first 5 years or so.
Both sessions went something like this:
Therapist: "So what brings you two here today"?
Wife: "He does blab, blab, blab..........for about the first 40 minutes of the 50 minute session".
And I must confess, I was guilty of ALL those things. You see I was already very sick, and it would be years before I even heard the word Alanon.
Therapist: "And Mr. Coyote, what do you see as the problem"?
Me: "She drinks too much".
Therapist: "Well, you know, I can't really be of any service to you two until the underlying Alcohol problem is taken care of".
IMHO, if the therapist tells you anything different than what these two told me, fire him, because he doesn't have a clue about alcoholism, or he's just trying to take your money.
I would add that it would be nice if they at least directed you two to Alanon/AA.
Good luck.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: seeking sanity
Posts: 645
My XAH and I went to couples counseling a few years ago. The counselor refused to see him any more when he realized that my H was active in his addiction. I continued to see him for a while. I finally got tired of the craziness and we were divorced in Jan. Now I'm working on ME and things are going pretty good. Last week I went back to this counselor to make sure I'm doing the things I need to do to return to normal. He was excellent when we were seeing him and many things he said stuck with me.
Life is tough when you're living with an addict. Now I wonder why I stayed as long as I did. This forum helped me to see things more clearly and to realize what I needed to do.
Life is tough when you're living with an addict. Now I wonder why I stayed as long as I did. This forum helped me to see things more clearly and to realize what I needed to do.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: seeking sanity
Posts: 645
I agree totally with what Thumper said, "So while it didn't really help anything between him and I, it sure helped me. I don't regret it at all."
I do remember that our counselor said that after he had been sober a year then it might benefit us to go to marriage counseling. Of course that year never came.
Also, if you've never been to Alanon then give it a try. It's like this forum...it helps a lot of people.
I do remember that our counselor said that after he had been sober a year then it might benefit us to go to marriage counseling. Of course that year never came.
Also, if you've never been to Alanon then give it a try. It's like this forum...it helps a lot of people.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
I frankly think counseling is worthless when the other person is in active alcoholism.
There are probably underlying issues that COULD be addressed and worked on, but these will take a back seat to all the communication problems, lies, manipulations, resentments, fear, and anger over the drinking.
It's like you're dealing with someone who keeps hitting his head w/ a hammer, over and over and over again, and you're trying to get a counselor to talk about "the issues". Well until he quits hitting himself over the head with a hammer, no one can focus on anything else!
Also I went to my xabf's therapist, and unfortunately, he sanctioned my ex's "moderation management" plan, which was a royal failure. The therapist DID tell him "ok, if you DO get drunk, you gotta admit it didn't work and maybe you need help." Do you think my ex paid any attention to that advice??? Of course not! He refuses to admit his scheme failed, or get any help, despite putting me through an abusive drunk episode that led to me finally deciding I'd hit bottom and walking away.
Alcoholics are in MASSIVE denial, which also means you're just throwing your money down the toilet with a therapist, until he starts working a recovery program that will force him to look at his situation with brutal honesty.
And btw, I do agree that perhaps a counselor w/ a background in substance abuse could be helpful, but what are you there for? It would be better if he saw that person alone, I think. I don't see that even a counselor telling him he's an alcoholic would work--if that's your goal, remember that most alcoholics don't get help til they hit bottom. A counselor's advice probably won't make a difference.
There are probably underlying issues that COULD be addressed and worked on, but these will take a back seat to all the communication problems, lies, manipulations, resentments, fear, and anger over the drinking.
It's like you're dealing with someone who keeps hitting his head w/ a hammer, over and over and over again, and you're trying to get a counselor to talk about "the issues". Well until he quits hitting himself over the head with a hammer, no one can focus on anything else!
Also I went to my xabf's therapist, and unfortunately, he sanctioned my ex's "moderation management" plan, which was a royal failure. The therapist DID tell him "ok, if you DO get drunk, you gotta admit it didn't work and maybe you need help." Do you think my ex paid any attention to that advice??? Of course not! He refuses to admit his scheme failed, or get any help, despite putting me through an abusive drunk episode that led to me finally deciding I'd hit bottom and walking away.
Alcoholics are in MASSIVE denial, which also means you're just throwing your money down the toilet with a therapist, until he starts working a recovery program that will force him to look at his situation with brutal honesty.
And btw, I do agree that perhaps a counselor w/ a background in substance abuse could be helpful, but what are you there for? It would be better if he saw that person alone, I think. I don't see that even a counselor telling him he's an alcoholic would work--if that's your goal, remember that most alcoholics don't get help til they hit bottom. A counselor's advice probably won't make a difference.
Originally Posted by whereisthisgoin
This is going to be interesting. My AH made an appt for us with a new counselor.
A year ago, I found a counselor (and am still seeing her with my son). He "hates that wench" and felt that all she did was focus on the alcohol (duh!).
So fast forward a year - his drinking is still bad - only he's starting later so he doesn't understand why that's a problem if my son and I are asleep. There are NO completely sober days. Ever. The good news is that by not drinking during the day, we are spared some of the craziness. He's not missing his mouth with his fork at dinnertime (gah!). He's not going to bed for the night at 7pm.
We're at a real standoff because I work too and have taken to sleeping in the guest bedroom during the week so I don't have to deal with the snoring and nastiness that keeps me from getting rest during the week. He says I'm pushing him away. There is no real physical closeness and now we're even talking less and less.
This may seal the deal about separation / divorce.
I know the majority of people on the board will wonder why I haven't left yet but it is a tough decision. This board has made me more ready for the idea of splitting up, and for that, I am forever thankful.
I guess I'm looking for support for this meeting with the new counselor and wondering what your experiences in couples therapy have been like.
A year ago, I found a counselor (and am still seeing her with my son). He "hates that wench" and felt that all she did was focus on the alcohol (duh!).
So fast forward a year - his drinking is still bad - only he's starting later so he doesn't understand why that's a problem if my son and I are asleep. There are NO completely sober days. Ever. The good news is that by not drinking during the day, we are spared some of the craziness. He's not missing his mouth with his fork at dinnertime (gah!). He's not going to bed for the night at 7pm.
We're at a real standoff because I work too and have taken to sleeping in the guest bedroom during the week so I don't have to deal with the snoring and nastiness that keeps me from getting rest during the week. He says I'm pushing him away. There is no real physical closeness and now we're even talking less and less.
This may seal the deal about separation / divorce.
I know the majority of people on the board will wonder why I haven't left yet but it is a tough decision. This board has made me more ready for the idea of splitting up, and for that, I am forever thankful.
I guess I'm looking for support for this meeting with the new counselor and wondering what your experiences in couples therapy have been like.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
Good advice, Thumper, and see--you pointed out the CRUCIAL problem with going to therapy w/ an alcoholic.
In order to get some benefit from therapy, the 2 of you at LEAST have to be on common ground about what your goals are, and the nature of your problems as a couple.
An alcoholic in denial won't EVER admit to the drinking being a problem, so you've tossed that one requirement right out the window! It's like, you'll be speaking Greek, while he's speaking French, to the therapist.
Whenever I tried to point out to my xabf that the drinking was our main problem, he would ALWAYS ALWAYS deny it. "it's not the drinking, Sandra, it's the communication."
Um, yeah, communication SUCKED with him because he could never be honest becuz he was an alcoholic!!
It's like trying to grow a tree when the roots are missing. You just can't do it.
In order to get some benefit from therapy, the 2 of you at LEAST have to be on common ground about what your goals are, and the nature of your problems as a couple.
An alcoholic in denial won't EVER admit to the drinking being a problem, so you've tossed that one requirement right out the window! It's like, you'll be speaking Greek, while he's speaking French, to the therapist.
Whenever I tried to point out to my xabf that the drinking was our main problem, he would ALWAYS ALWAYS deny it. "it's not the drinking, Sandra, it's the communication."
Um, yeah, communication SUCKED with him because he could never be honest becuz he was an alcoholic!!
It's like trying to grow a tree when the roots are missing. You just can't do it.
Originally Posted by Thumper
I went to 3 sessions with my xah. The premise was that she would help us communicate or work some things out so we could co-parent better. She was my xah's counselor first. I know my xah had a different view of why we were there. We talked about all that, out in the open, at the first session. We filled out all the forms that people would do for couples counseling. The first two sessions especially felt a lot like couples counseling to me even though we had that first conversation. My xah was not excepting that I was really going to follow through with the divorce. We were still in the same house at that point.
I thought the counseling was really good fwiw. She really had a good handle on things and had addictions background.
She then said that she would flat out refuses to do marriage counseling until he worked a recovery program. She listed out several options for recovery programs, told him to figure it out, and then let her know. Of course he didn't do that.
He *still* doesn't get it or except it. He still sends me accusational guilt inducing blaming emails about not working it out, not understanding why I wouldn't do counseling, blah blah blah. So while it didn't really help anything between him and I, it sure helped me. I don't regret it at all. I went on to see her on my own after that. Dh had first choice to keep her as a counselor and he didn't want to.
That is my experience. The thing I would recommend is to make sure the counselor has a background in addictions as I think that makes all the difference. Typical couples therapy will not apply when addiction is present.
I thought the counseling was really good fwiw. She really had a good handle on things and had addictions background.
She then said that she would flat out refuses to do marriage counseling until he worked a recovery program. She listed out several options for recovery programs, told him to figure it out, and then let her know. Of course he didn't do that.
He *still* doesn't get it or except it. He still sends me accusational guilt inducing blaming emails about not working it out, not understanding why I wouldn't do counseling, blah blah blah. So while it didn't really help anything between him and I, it sure helped me. I don't regret it at all. I went on to see her on my own after that. Dh had first choice to keep her as a counselor and he didn't want to.
That is my experience. The thing I would recommend is to make sure the counselor has a background in addictions as I think that makes all the difference. Typical couples therapy will not apply when addiction is present.
I AM CANADIAN
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 2,578
@SANDRAWG... "you'll be speaking Greek, while he's speaking French, to the therapist"
you know...that is so the truth is it not!!??? HERE HERE! now that I got and understand!!
@sandrawg.. iseem to be following you...LOL
you know...that is so the truth is it not!!??? HERE HERE! now that I got and understand!!
@sandrawg.. iseem to be following you...LOL
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 105
Sandrawg and all: My experience in couples' counseling with STBWasband was terrible, and quite damaging to me in the short term. When I brought up alcohol as a "barrier to our relationship", he said that was the first he'd heard of it (!), that he is very careful about drinking because HE NEVER WANTS TO HAVE TO STOP, that he does the on-line quizzes all the time and always comes out fine, and on and on. In fact, I posted his responses on the Alcoholic forum at SR and was assured that he was "a classic".
In addition, he used the time to berate me, say he wasn't sure he'd ever loved me, shouldn't have married me, wouldn't like me if he met me today, listed his grievances with me (I'm not perfect...so many of his grievances were related to my "workarounds" due to his drinking). For example, he complained that I would not go out to dinner with other couples. I produced a list of 40 couples that I would love to go to dinner with...but not after he'd been drinking 3-4 hours at the country club, then drinking thru dinner, then rusty nails, then to another bar, then to the casino. No. That's not fun for me.
To get back to the counseling question (sorry for the rant), our counselor seemed to be onto him and his issues, and tiptoed around him in order to keep him in counseling. We both knew he was looking for a reason to stop. As it turns out, he had a girlfriend in the office the whole time (where I also work), so he was talking himself into getting out of the marriage. (That relationship led to her firing and his firing...of course, also my fault).
Anyway, I wish our counselor would have been straightforward enough to say that the counseling was pointless while he was an active addict---because it was. At least then someone in a position of "authority" would have told him that, not (crazy, unreasonable, cranky "teetotaler") me. Divorce is not yet final, but I moved about a month ago, and didn't have any contact with him for a while before that. What a joy! Yes, it's a little scary to be on my own, but to get out from under the drinking, blaming, and a front row seat to his continuing spiral down is as they say, "priceless". That's my experience. I wish you all the best. Please keep us posted.
In addition, he used the time to berate me, say he wasn't sure he'd ever loved me, shouldn't have married me, wouldn't like me if he met me today, listed his grievances with me (I'm not perfect...so many of his grievances were related to my "workarounds" due to his drinking). For example, he complained that I would not go out to dinner with other couples. I produced a list of 40 couples that I would love to go to dinner with...but not after he'd been drinking 3-4 hours at the country club, then drinking thru dinner, then rusty nails, then to another bar, then to the casino. No. That's not fun for me.
To get back to the counseling question (sorry for the rant), our counselor seemed to be onto him and his issues, and tiptoed around him in order to keep him in counseling. We both knew he was looking for a reason to stop. As it turns out, he had a girlfriend in the office the whole time (where I also work), so he was talking himself into getting out of the marriage. (That relationship led to her firing and his firing...of course, also my fault).
Anyway, I wish our counselor would have been straightforward enough to say that the counseling was pointless while he was an active addict---because it was. At least then someone in a position of "authority" would have told him that, not (crazy, unreasonable, cranky "teetotaler") me. Divorce is not yet final, but I moved about a month ago, and didn't have any contact with him for a while before that. What a joy! Yes, it's a little scary to be on my own, but to get out from under the drinking, blaming, and a front row seat to his continuing spiral down is as they say, "priceless". That's my experience. I wish you all the best. Please keep us posted.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 302
I spent 7 years in and out of counseling with my STBXAH. I actually insisted at first because it was the behaviors I was picking up on, and we were changing a lot as a couple. It wasn't for another, oh, 2-3 years that I realized it was the alcohol. (He had a lot of mental health issues, and we all thought he was self-medicating, and not the other way around.) Then a new counselor in our new city, and he started getting sick.
We moved again, (all for my work), and I found an awesome therapist with a background in addictions. He wasn't in denial that he was an alcoholic, but hadn't admitted he was truly powerless. She started working with him as best she could, and I've used her as a sounding board to reassure myself I wasn't crazy. She is still someone I see when I need a confidential ear.
We've been separated for nearly 10 months, the divorce is creeping along at the speed of molasses, and he is very much in denial that the marriage is over. Oh well. I'm over it.
Good luck.
We moved again, (all for my work), and I found an awesome therapist with a background in addictions. He wasn't in denial that he was an alcoholic, but hadn't admitted he was truly powerless. She started working with him as best she could, and I've used her as a sounding board to reassure myself I wasn't crazy. She is still someone I see when I need a confidential ear.
We've been separated for nearly 10 months, the divorce is creeping along at the speed of molasses, and he is very much in denial that the marriage is over. Oh well. I'm over it.
Good luck.
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