NEW to recovery; advice! Thanks!
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NEW to recovery; advice! Thanks!
I am writing because I am about to leave behind my addiction (toxic relationships) for the very first time in my life, which involves leaving my recent partner (a binge alcoholic, former addict, food binger, relationship addict, etc) and our home. I will be moving to another state, back where I had gone for school.
We will be 8 hours away. My question for those who have been in recovery, or simply possess knowledge on the issue is, should my recent partner and I (we have decided to break it off when I leave) still attempt to be friends? She has stated she wants to be friends and "build a friendship," but she is not in recovery (namely for alcohol), and doesn't think she has a problem. At the very least, she is not willing to admit she has a problem.
...This has caused me a lot of pain, and is part of the reason I am leaving; in addition to the fact that I see I have a problem myself -- attracting unavailable partners and toxic relationships.
My question (reason I am writing) is... when I leave here this weekend, do I cut off contact from her? What is your personal experience with this? ie, should two addicts not talk for "X" amount of time? The other thing I thought about was cutting off contact and telling her not to contact me until she seeks help, ie: goes to AA? Would it be fair of me to say this? ie, is this stating a boundary? ie, "I desire to not be contacted until you have made an active commitment to recovery."
I will be going to Alanon, and though I do not drink at all, I may go to AA just because it's more about having a problem (which I feel I do, with relationships) than Alanon, which often just believes people "care too much." I identify my "caring too much" as an addiction... paralleling drug and alcohol addiction.
At any rate, what would someone with years of experience in AA say to someone who is in my situation?
Feel free to ask any clarifying questions. Thanks!
We will be 8 hours away. My question for those who have been in recovery, or simply possess knowledge on the issue is, should my recent partner and I (we have decided to break it off when I leave) still attempt to be friends? She has stated she wants to be friends and "build a friendship," but she is not in recovery (namely for alcohol), and doesn't think she has a problem. At the very least, she is not willing to admit she has a problem.
...This has caused me a lot of pain, and is part of the reason I am leaving; in addition to the fact that I see I have a problem myself -- attracting unavailable partners and toxic relationships.
My question (reason I am writing) is... when I leave here this weekend, do I cut off contact from her? What is your personal experience with this? ie, should two addicts not talk for "X" amount of time? The other thing I thought about was cutting off contact and telling her not to contact me until she seeks help, ie: goes to AA? Would it be fair of me to say this? ie, is this stating a boundary? ie, "I desire to not be contacted until you have made an active commitment to recovery."
I will be going to Alanon, and though I do not drink at all, I may go to AA just because it's more about having a problem (which I feel I do, with relationships) than Alanon, which often just believes people "care too much." I identify my "caring too much" as an addiction... paralleling drug and alcohol addiction.
At any rate, what would someone with years of experience in AA say to someone who is in my situation?
Feel free to ask any clarifying questions. Thanks!
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Hi Not2BForgot,
I have tried the "remain friends" plan after a breakup and it usually doesn't go very well. I've also observed many friends try to stay friends with ex's. If the relationship is indeed "toxic" then what's the point in staying friends? There are millions of people out there to be friends with and I think ex's often kind of throw a stick in the spokes of the bicycle.
These are the most common problems I've observed in the situation:
1. One of the two people still has some feelings for the other. In my own situations, remaining friends often ended up in endless attempts to get back together with the same disastrous results.
2. What if you start seeing someone else? Would you want her input about your new relationship? After all, don't we update friends on what's going on in our lives? How would you feel if she started seeing someone else?
3. Finally, I do think it's great when ex's can be friends. However, I think you need at least a year break from each other. Then if you want to reconnect and give friendship a try you can. My first ex dumped me through an email and never spoke to me again. At the time I wanted to run him over with my car. Funny enough, a few years later we met up by accident and had a blast talking and catching up.
I have tried the "remain friends" plan after a breakup and it usually doesn't go very well. I've also observed many friends try to stay friends with ex's. If the relationship is indeed "toxic" then what's the point in staying friends? There are millions of people out there to be friends with and I think ex's often kind of throw a stick in the spokes of the bicycle.
These are the most common problems I've observed in the situation:
1. One of the two people still has some feelings for the other. In my own situations, remaining friends often ended up in endless attempts to get back together with the same disastrous results.
2. What if you start seeing someone else? Would you want her input about your new relationship? After all, don't we update friends on what's going on in our lives? How would you feel if she started seeing someone else?
3. Finally, I do think it's great when ex's can be friends. However, I think you need at least a year break from each other. Then if you want to reconnect and give friendship a try you can. My first ex dumped me through an email and never spoke to me again. At the time I wanted to run him over with my car. Funny enough, a few years later we met up by accident and had a blast talking and catching up.
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Welcome to SR Not2bforgot10 
You'll find a lot of good advice here, and in our Family and Friends forums too.
The Alcoholism and Addictions Help Forums- by SoberRecovery.com
But for me, if you consider it a toxic relationship that caused you pain, why would you want to try and maintain a friendship?
D
You'll find a lot of good advice here, and in our Family and Friends forums too.
The Alcoholism and Addictions Help Forums- by SoberRecovery.com
But for me, if you consider it a toxic relationship that caused you pain, why would you want to try and maintain a friendship?
D
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You have several good points. You also bring up a good point, why stay friends if the relationship is toxic? This made me wonder and ask myself, "Why would I still want to consider being friends with her," and to be honest, I think (I am not for certain) that it has something to do with grief... and wanting to maybe put off that grief. I mean, breaking up is grief... and no one wants to feel it.
I think that when you have a relationship addiction (be it by itself or alongside of other addictions) this is a major factor. I mean, I think individuals with relationship addictions (codependency issues) really want to try and ignore the grief (heartache) as much as possible. I do agree with you though that it would not make logical sense to stay friends, at least for the 1st year.
I know that I am very vulnerable right now and susceptible to falling back into older patterns since this is so fresh... so I only hope that I can gain enough clarity and strength to really set a firm boundary. She says that I am a "good person" and wants to continue what we have... I just hope I am stronger to be able to put my foot down and say "I can't." I just don't want to regret anything...
I am like an alcoholic who hopes he didn't make a mistake by putting down the bottle, or cutting off his ex wife, or best bud. How does a person do this? I honestly have a real problem with grief... I have always numbed out through relationships.
At any rate, would it be fair to say to her "I desire to not be contacted until you have made an active commitment to recovery," ie: are going to meetings? The only reason I say this is because she has gone to a couple meetings before and started to admit she had a problem and then went completely back into denial... at any rate, she never really committed herself, so I want to be fair and say, "Erin, if you can commit yourself, I will consider being friends." ...perhaps I can say, ie: "After 6 months, or alternatively, 1 solid year."
I think that when you have a relationship addiction (be it by itself or alongside of other addictions) this is a major factor. I mean, I think individuals with relationship addictions (codependency issues) really want to try and ignore the grief (heartache) as much as possible. I do agree with you though that it would not make logical sense to stay friends, at least for the 1st year.
I know that I am very vulnerable right now and susceptible to falling back into older patterns since this is so fresh... so I only hope that I can gain enough clarity and strength to really set a firm boundary. She says that I am a "good person" and wants to continue what we have... I just hope I am stronger to be able to put my foot down and say "I can't." I just don't want to regret anything...
I am like an alcoholic who hopes he didn't make a mistake by putting down the bottle, or cutting off his ex wife, or best bud. How does a person do this? I honestly have a real problem with grief... I have always numbed out through relationships.
At any rate, would it be fair to say to her "I desire to not be contacted until you have made an active commitment to recovery," ie: are going to meetings? The only reason I say this is because she has gone to a couple meetings before and started to admit she had a problem and then went completely back into denial... at any rate, she never really committed herself, so I want to be fair and say, "Erin, if you can commit yourself, I will consider being friends." ...perhaps I can say, ie: "After 6 months, or alternatively, 1 solid year."
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Dee-
Thank you for the link.
It was toxic because I am Alanon in that my self-esteem (identity) was wrapped up in how much I could do for her, make her feel good, etc. and she chose alcohol over me. I was (am) basically codependent.
Also, 9/10 of the relationships I have had have been with alcoholics so this is the "norm" for me. The truth is though they are toxic because they are with addicted people... and while I consider myself to have the same pattern in that I am addicted to depending on external approval, we are both equally responsible for our own happiness and are depending on other (false) sources.
At any rate, I am just wondering if it would be okay to say to her "I do not want to have any contact until you go to AA." (Of course I would be doing the work for myself, too).
Thank you for the link.
It was toxic because I am Alanon in that my self-esteem (identity) was wrapped up in how much I could do for her, make her feel good, etc. and she chose alcohol over me. I was (am) basically codependent.
Also, 9/10 of the relationships I have had have been with alcoholics so this is the "norm" for me. The truth is though they are toxic because they are with addicted people... and while I consider myself to have the same pattern in that I am addicted to depending on external approval, we are both equally responsible for our own happiness and are depending on other (false) sources.
At any rate, I am just wondering if it would be okay to say to her "I do not want to have any contact until you go to AA." (Of course I would be doing the work for myself, too).
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Originally Posted by Not2bforgot10
I see I have a problem myself -- attracting unavailable partners and toxic relationships.
Can't tell you how many years I did this; I could be in a room of 300 people and if there was only one with a broken wing, I'd be like a magnet to him.
This need to fix other people was my way of validating my own self-worth. The more somebody else got better, the better I felt about myself.
Of course, there are those who never wanted to get better.
I found these relationships extremely challenging (in a sick, positive way)and was sure that if I could overcome their defiance to not get well, then I would surely be the master relationship Queen and a most worthy human being with a real purpose in this life.
Many, many times of having my heart broken later did I accept that people only get well when they want to get well for themselves; not for anybody else or because of anyone's ultimatums.
It also hurt like hell to see those people get well after I left, but it was not my job to fix them.
I am an alcoholic and a supreme codependent.
Taking charge of my own life and my own behavior has kept me sober and living happily in recovery.
Continuing to accept that I am only responsible for my own recovery has kept me sane.
I'd stay in Alanon and learn how to take care of YOU. Let your partner do the same on her terms and in her time. Ultimatums have never worked for me.
Everything else will fall into place as its meant to after that (has been my experience).
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I agree with HumbleBee. Ultimatums never worked for me either
Grief is hard to deal with - I stayed with more than one partner because I could not face the pain involved in breaking up...one of those partners was alcohol.
With the other, I see now I not only damaged myself but I damaged her too...simply by trying to stay together - we damaged each other. It was all very co-dependent.
It hurt to break up but it got me to where I am today and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else
My ex and I now have a decent relationship...10 years on, with a lt of work on ourseves by both of us.
Noone deserves to be in a dysfunctional relationship...keep going to AlAnon for you...hope that your friend realises what she needs to do....and let the universe unfold as it will
D
Grief is hard to deal with - I stayed with more than one partner because I could not face the pain involved in breaking up...one of those partners was alcohol.
With the other, I see now I not only damaged myself but I damaged her too...simply by trying to stay together - we damaged each other. It was all very co-dependent.
It hurt to break up but it got me to where I am today and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else
My ex and I now have a decent relationship...10 years on, with a lt of work on ourseves by both of us.
Noone deserves to be in a dysfunctional relationship...keep going to AlAnon for you...hope that your friend realises what she needs to do....and let the universe unfold as it will
D
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Originally Posted by HumbleBee 
Hello Not2b,
Can't tell you how many years I did this; I could be in a room of 300 people and if there was only one with a broken wing, I'd be like a magnet to him.
This need to fix other people was my way of validating my own self-worth. The more somebody else got better, the better I felt about myself.
Of course, there are those who never wanted to get better.
I found these relationships extremely challenging (in a sick, positive way)and was sure that if I could overcome their defiance to not get well, then I would surely be the master relationship Queen and a most worthy human being with a real purpose in this life.
Many, many times of having my heart broken later did I accept that people only get well when they want to get well for themselves; not for anybody else or because of anyone's ultimatums.
It also hurt like hell to see those people get well after I left, but it was not my job to fix them.
I am an alcoholic and a supreme codependent.
Taking charge of my own life and my own behavior has kept me sober and living happily in recovery.
Continuing to accept that I am only responsible for my own recovery has kept me sane.
I'd stay in Alanon and learn how to take care of YOU. Let your partner do the same on her terms and in her time. Ultimatums have never worked for me.
Everything else will fall into place as its meant to after that (has been my experience).
Can't tell you how many years I did this; I could be in a room of 300 people and if there was only one with a broken wing, I'd be like a magnet to him.
This need to fix other people was my way of validating my own self-worth. The more somebody else got better, the better I felt about myself.
Of course, there are those who never wanted to get better.
I found these relationships extremely challenging (in a sick, positive way)and was sure that if I could overcome their defiance to not get well, then I would surely be the master relationship Queen and a most worthy human being with a real purpose in this life.
Many, many times of having my heart broken later did I accept that people only get well when they want to get well for themselves; not for anybody else or because of anyone's ultimatums.
It also hurt like hell to see those people get well after I left, but it was not my job to fix them.
I am an alcoholic and a supreme codependent.
Taking charge of my own life and my own behavior has kept me sober and living happily in recovery.
Continuing to accept that I am only responsible for my own recovery has kept me sane.
I'd stay in Alanon and learn how to take care of YOU. Let your partner do the same on her terms and in her time. Ultimatums have never worked for me.
Everything else will fall into place as its meant to after that (has been my experience).
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Dee,
You stated: "It hurt to break up but it got me to where I am today and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else."
I am so afraid of being alone... I think emotionally... I was abandoned as a child, and it stays with me. Someone on on this forum suggested finding worth from within, which is awesome, and makes complete sense... but how do we do that?
I think I am a mix of programs... but the only program in my area is Alanon and AA. I do not drink, but I am wondering if AA would be more down my ally only because it deals with addiction, and I feel like I am slightly more than just Alanon who believes that we "care too much," I like, almost basically depend on someone for my emotional fulfillment... I think I'm more specific than CODA (Codependent's anonymous, too).
You stated: "It hurt to break up but it got me to where I am today and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else."
I am so afraid of being alone... I think emotionally... I was abandoned as a child, and it stays with me. Someone on on this forum suggested finding worth from within, which is awesome, and makes complete sense... but how do we do that?
I think I am a mix of programs... but the only program in my area is Alanon and AA. I do not drink, but I am wondering if AA would be more down my ally only because it deals with addiction, and I feel like I am slightly more than just Alanon who believes that we "care too much," I like, almost basically depend on someone for my emotional fulfillment... I think I'm more specific than CODA (Codependent's anonymous, too).
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Dee, etc-
How can you know if you can have a relationship with your ex? As in a friendship... I mean, how do you know?
Also, is there a recommended time you would recommend being apart right after the breakup? A couple of people mentioned a year... some have advised forever.
I am so afraid that if when I move sometime this weekend if I decide to not talk to her for 6 months, or worse, longer that it will forever not allow us to rebuild, ever. She has a very black and white mentality "us against them" kind of thing, and I am so afraid (truthfully) she will see it as a betrayal.
She is very much an ACOA as much as an AA.
How can you know if you can have a relationship with your ex? As in a friendship... I mean, how do you know?
Also, is there a recommended time you would recommend being apart right after the breakup? A couple of people mentioned a year... some have advised forever.
I am so afraid that if when I move sometime this weekend if I decide to not talk to her for 6 months, or worse, longer that it will forever not allow us to rebuild, ever. She has a very black and white mentality "us against them" kind of thing, and I am so afraid (truthfully) she will see it as a betrayal.
She is very much an ACOA as much as an AA.
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IMO, yes.
You'd be setting the condition that she has to get into recovery, period...one week, one month, 6 months, it makes no difference...you would not be allowing her to make her own decision to get well.
If I read your post correctly, your partner has not even accepted that she has a problem with alcohol.
That has to happen before any chance of recovery is even successful.
It's not easy, but staying in a bad relationship just because it hurts to let go only prolongs the pain, in my experience.
You'd be setting the condition that she has to get into recovery, period...one week, one month, 6 months, it makes no difference...you would not be allowing her to make her own decision to get well.
If I read your post correctly, your partner has not even accepted that she has a problem with alcohol.
That has to happen before any chance of recovery is even successful.
It's not easy, but staying in a bad relationship just because it hurts to let go only prolongs the pain, in my experience.
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Not2bforgot10
I was terrified of being alone too - but I needed to work on myself before I was a partner, or person, worth a damn.
I can't tell you how to find your self worth because the search for it is an integral part of the journey IMO...but for me I've gotten to know myself, found my worth and my meaning in helping others.
I don't do AA or AlAnon but I think you'd be best looking for a therapist or some kind of relationship based 12 step programme, if there is such a thing, rather than going to AA.
As I understand it AA is pretty specific, but you'd best ask some AA members
As for my ex - I didn't know whether I could be friends - for many years we were hostile to each other.
I contacted her after I got sober, ten years later simply to say I was sorry...we're now friends. It wasn't planned.
That's what I mean about letting the universe unfold.
For someone who was a control freak, thats a big step to just let things happen, and a big leap of faith that'll be ok, but it shows me I've grown.
D
I was terrified of being alone too - but I needed to work on myself before I was a partner, or person, worth a damn.
I can't tell you how to find your self worth because the search for it is an integral part of the journey IMO...but for me I've gotten to know myself, found my worth and my meaning in helping others.
I don't do AA or AlAnon but I think you'd be best looking for a therapist or some kind of relationship based 12 step programme, if there is such a thing, rather than going to AA.
As I understand it AA is pretty specific, but you'd best ask some AA members
As for my ex - I didn't know whether I could be friends - for many years we were hostile to each other.
I contacted her after I got sober, ten years later simply to say I was sorry...we're now friends. It wasn't planned.
That's what I mean about letting the universe unfold.
For someone who was a control freak, thats a big step to just let things happen, and a big leap of faith that'll be ok, but it shows me I've grown.
D
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Originally Posted by HumbleBee
IMO, yes.
You'd be setting the condition that she has to get into recovery, period...one week, one month, 6 months, it makes no difference...you would not be allowing her to make her own decision to get well.
If I read your post correctly, your partner has not even accepted that she has a problem with alcohol.
That has to happen before any chance of recovery is even successful.
It's not easy, but staying in a bad relationship just because it hurts to let go only prolongs the pain, in my experience.
You'd be setting the condition that she has to get into recovery, period...one week, one month, 6 months, it makes no difference...you would not be allowing her to make her own decision to get well.
If I read your post correctly, your partner has not even accepted that she has a problem with alcohol.
That has to happen before any chance of recovery is even successful.
It's not easy, but staying in a bad relationship just because it hurts to let go only prolongs the pain, in my experience.
And yes, she admitted she had a problem very early on, and now she's resentful of me for having her "believe" it and is back in denial drinking more than ever before... unfortunately she is 27 and lives with her family and they all enable her drinking... she laughs because her mother owns a bar/restaurant and gives her free alcohol whenever she wants.
Anyway
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Originally Posted by Dee74
Not2bforgot10
I was terrified of being alone too - but I needed to work on myself before I was a partner, or person, worth a damn.
I can't tell you how to find your self worth because the search for it is an integral part of the journey IMO...but for me I've gotten to know myself, found my worth and my meaning in helping others.
I don't do AA or AlAnon but I think you'd be best looking for a therapist or some kind of relationship based 12 step programme, if there is such a thing, rather than going to AA.
As I understand it AA is pretty specific, but you'd best ask some AA members
As for my ex - I didn't know whether I could be friends - for many years we were hostile to each other.
I contacted her after I got sober, ten years later simply to say I was sorry...we're now friends. It wasn't planned.
That's what I mean about letting the universe unfold.
For someone who was a control freak, thats a big step to just let things happen, and a big leap of faith that'll be ok, but it shows me I've grown.
D
I was terrified of being alone too - but I needed to work on myself before I was a partner, or person, worth a damn.
I can't tell you how to find your self worth because the search for it is an integral part of the journey IMO...but for me I've gotten to know myself, found my worth and my meaning in helping others.
I don't do AA or AlAnon but I think you'd be best looking for a therapist or some kind of relationship based 12 step programme, if there is such a thing, rather than going to AA.
As I understand it AA is pretty specific, but you'd best ask some AA members
As for my ex - I didn't know whether I could be friends - for many years we were hostile to each other.
I contacted her after I got sober, ten years later simply to say I was sorry...we're now friends. It wasn't planned.
That's what I mean about letting the universe unfold.
For someone who was a control freak, thats a big step to just let things happen, and a big leap of faith that'll be ok, but it shows me I've grown.
D
Hmm... I was thinking of maybe starting a "relational" 12-step group in my area when I move... I am good at taking initiative, so this is something I could consider, although I have heard that a person should have at least 2 solid years of recovery before they start a 12-step group; is this true?
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Have you read the book "Codependent No More?" It might help bring some issues to the surface for you. Also, counseling is a great way to get some objective and positive input and start building your self esteem. It also might be a way to determine if you're ready to (or need to)break off the relationship.
Any "conditions" you place on her is going to keep you codependent.
My guess would be that as long as there is grief, pain, or other emotional connections, a true friendship (i.e. without codependency) would be hard to maintain.
I agree with the others: do what is best for YOU and let the chips fall where they may.
Any "conditions" you place on her is going to keep you codependent.
My guess would be that as long as there is grief, pain, or other emotional connections, a true friendship (i.e. without codependency) would be hard to maintain.
I agree with the others: do what is best for YOU and let the chips fall where they may.
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I am thinking no contact for "X" amount of time would likely be best based off the advice of others. I just do not want to regret this, and I tend to regret when I 1. Have unresolved grief (which I do), and 2. when I get scared and start feeling like I cannot survive on my own with out a partner for emotional condolence.
What does this sound like? As I said earlier, I don't think it's Alanon per se, nor do I think it's CODA... to be dependent on someone emotionally... what 12-step is that? I don't think it's LA (love addiction), either. It may be closest to ACOA (Adult children of alcoholics), although that's not relationship-specific. My problem is I tend to rely on partners, often unavailable partners, to provide my self worth, and I tend to fear abandonment and want to keep the relationship going at all costs...
Yes, I know this is unhealthy, and I am just now (slowly) being made aware of this. I know that this is likely due to immaturity on my part and a lack of self-esteem, which I definitely plan on developing. I just wonder where I belong 12-step wise. If not Alanon and CODA, then what is this "dependence?"
What does this sound like? As I said earlier, I don't think it's Alanon per se, nor do I think it's CODA... to be dependent on someone emotionally... what 12-step is that? I don't think it's LA (love addiction), either. It may be closest to ACOA (Adult children of alcoholics), although that's not relationship-specific. My problem is I tend to rely on partners, often unavailable partners, to provide my self worth, and I tend to fear abandonment and want to keep the relationship going at all costs...
Yes, I know this is unhealthy, and I am just now (slowly) being made aware of this. I know that this is likely due to immaturity on my part and a lack of self-esteem, which I definitely plan on developing. I just wonder where I belong 12-step wise. If not Alanon and CODA, then what is this "dependence?"
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