Son caught in vicious relapse cycle again
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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Son caught in vicious relapse cycle again
my son is a heroin addict for about 3 years now. He has been to numerous residential programs. Recently, had about 11 months clean. Then he got a job while in the program and that's when he got tempted to use again. He left the program and now stays with me, his mother. (We hadn't seen eachother for about 5 years until recently.) He's been to detox since and has gotten about a week clean after withdrawing at home. Problem is he can't resist the urge to use. It eats at him like a festering ulcer. When he's straight he's lucid and says he wants to stop. After a while however he just can't resist going back out to get the drug. He wanted to go back to the program he was in but has to be clean first. they had him quit his job and do outpatient, but it didn't work.
He says he wants to stop but is afraid of the withdrawal symptoms. He knows he has to because he lost his job, has no money, is on probation, and is at wits end. Today we went to a residential program about 60 miles away, that he wanted to go. (First time it wasn't court ordered.) The program turned him away, after he waited 4 days for a bed, because he told them he used the night before. (I had no idea.) Told him he had to detox first for at least 10 days before he could go into the program. Now we're trying to find a program for him. I've done my research, but he has to want to and has to make the calls or take the action to do something. Said he could go to the hospital, claim to be suicidal and they'll keep him for a while, but he seems to be giving lip service.
I've watched him hit bottom in less than six weeks and the cycle is getting worse. He has to do something....I can't just let him wait out a bed somewhere while he stays at my place and gets high. Please HELP...he's gone to the places to do the steps to get help, but blows it. What can I do?
He says he wants to stop but is afraid of the withdrawal symptoms. He knows he has to because he lost his job, has no money, is on probation, and is at wits end. Today we went to a residential program about 60 miles away, that he wanted to go. (First time it wasn't court ordered.) The program turned him away, after he waited 4 days for a bed, because he told them he used the night before. (I had no idea.) Told him he had to detox first for at least 10 days before he could go into the program. Now we're trying to find a program for him. I've done my research, but he has to want to and has to make the calls or take the action to do something. Said he could go to the hospital, claim to be suicidal and they'll keep him for a while, but he seems to be giving lip service.
I've watched him hit bottom in less than six weeks and the cycle is getting worse. He has to do something....I can't just let him wait out a bed somewhere while he stays at my place and gets high. Please HELP...he's gone to the places to do the steps to get help, but blows it. What can I do?
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,896
Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do for him. He hasn't yet reached his bottom. There is plenty you can do for yourself, however. Stop enabling him by giving him a place to stay while he continues to get high. The more uncomfortable he is, the sooner he might be willing to do whatever is necessary to get and stay clean.
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 545
Welcome to SR... Vaya!
You can stop enabling him. i.e. letting him get high at your place... searching out solutions to HIS problem.
You can tell him no more... he can get a bed at the local homeless shelter... and he can get help at the local Narcotics Anonymous.... even if he used the night before.
Ultimately he'll quit when he is ready to... in the meantime it's all noise... and it will get worse.
You CAN let him wait out a bed.... you CAN take care of yourself.... you HAVE come to the right place....
Stay here a while... read the stickies at the top of the forum... read other threads... you WILL see you and your son in the stories told here.
(hugs)
By the way... you say your son caught in vicious relapse cycle again... no sweetie... he's not caught again.... he's an addict.... he's doing what addicts do.
he's gone to the places to do the steps to get help, but blows it. What can I do?
You can tell him no more... he can get a bed at the local homeless shelter... and he can get help at the local Narcotics Anonymous.... even if he used the night before.
Ultimately he'll quit when he is ready to... in the meantime it's all noise... and it will get worse.
You CAN let him wait out a bed.... you CAN take care of yourself.... you HAVE come to the right place....
Stay here a while... read the stickies at the top of the forum... read other threads... you WILL see you and your son in the stories told here.
(hugs)
By the way... you say your son caught in vicious relapse cycle again... no sweetie... he's not caught again.... he's an addict.... he's doing what addicts do.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
Many hit what I refer to as as "Mini Bottom", just enough to get everyone back on their side, to help...the codies mantra is "I want to help"!
Truth be told, we can't and until we stop, the addict will never hit the "Final down to their knees bottom". Then and only then do they have a chance for recovery.
Some never reach their bottom, however, many do, all you can do is turn him over to the HP and pray.
That's it, stop enabling him, don't love him to death!
Truth be told, we can't and until we stop, the addict will never hit the "Final down to their knees bottom". Then and only then do they have a chance for recovery.
Some never reach their bottom, however, many do, all you can do is turn him over to the HP and pray.
That's it, stop enabling him, don't love him to death!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,322
I do agree with the others about not enabling your son, Vaya. But I also have a son (now 26) who was a lost soul like yours, so I wanted to share what he did, ultimately, on his own, in case you would like to share this information with your son. Through a friend, he heard about the suboxone program, which seemed like a bad idea to me (like replacing one drug with another) but to him it seemed like the answer, and it actually did work. Now ultimately he had to stop taking that drug as well, but for now, he is straight and not using. There is a board here at SR for addicts/suboxone use, I think. Maybe you could suggest he read about it (not YOU read about it, but him, you know? It really has to come FROM HIM)...
Good luck, mama.
Good luck, mama.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: central coast, ca
Posts: 1,652
My 18 year old daughter is a heroin addict as well. We sent her to rehab, she too relapsed w/in 6 weeks.Told her we love her, but she cannot be using and live with us. She has been gone 6 mo.Right now she is trying to clean up on her own (I don't see it working). SLOWWWLY I have come to accept that I cannot save her. When we sent her to rehab, we would drive 3 hours there, do therapy all day, then drive 3 hours back. Other parents would fly in every week (to Malibu) from Hawaii, Missiouri, Kansas City, etc. If love could've fixed any of these kids none of them would've been there. I have stopped pushing recovery and am acknowledging that she HAS to find it on her own. There is NO other way. Once they have had some meetings and therapy and rehab, a seed has been planted. Someone put it to me like this about my daughter when I noticed that when she got back from rehab, she wasn't having any fun using.."She knows too much, she can't just go out and use with impunity". I loved that quote because it is so true..your son has the knowledge and knows where he can get help. I chose to let my daughter go and as my sponsor said"wallow in her addiction" to see how much she really likes it. Her being able to come home after using to a warm bed, food, clean clothes, etc. wasn't really giving her the picture of what life as an addict is like. I totally feel your pain, but would encourage you not to let him live with you while he's using.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Westland, Pennsylvania
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New hope for heroin users: Naltrexone implants.
By admin | June 21, 2008
A study at the University of Western Australia has found that heroin addicts with naltrexone implants are far less likely to return to heroin use than those taking oral tablets.
But critics are sceptical about the study and say that naltrexone is still a risky option for drug users trying to kick the habit.
Naltrexone is a drug which blocks the effects of heroin on the brain. It is usually taken as a tablet, but if heroin users stop taking the pill they often fall back into drug use.
That is why scientists have been working on an implant which automatically releases naltrexone into the body.
Gary Hulse from the University Of Western Australia is confident about the naltrexone’s success.
“It means that you’ve got a a one-stop shop. People can come in, they receive their treatment or implant and for five months or six months, they carry that treatment with them,” he said.
The six-month trial involved 69 heroin users. Fifty-four completed the trial. Of the 28 participants who received a naltrexone tablet, 15 returned to regular heroin use. Of the 26 people who received a naltrexone implant, just two returned to heroin use.
Researchers like Mr Hulse say it is a good result for naltrexone implants.
“This is a relatively safe and a treatment which has good clinical outcomes,” he said.
The study is yet to be published in a peer-reviewed medical journal, but the team at the University of Western Australia are confident the research will be well received.
“I’m not only confident that it’ll be published in a peer review but I would be surprised if this wasn’t accepted by one of the extremely high rating journals,” said Mr Hulse.
But critics like Dr Alex Wodak, from the Alcohol And Drug Services at Vincents Hospital in Sydney, have little time for the new study.
“The paper hasn’t been published yet in a scientific journal and so therefore, it’s the equivalent of hearsay in a court of law. That is, it’s not really evidence,” he said.
Naltrexone is a controversial drug. The implants are yet to be approved by Australia’s Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) and there have been mixed results for heroin users.
Some patients have stopped using heroin after receiving an implant. But others have cut them out of their body or suffered serious side effects.
“The implants, I know for a fact, were at one stage required by the therapeutic goods administration to be stamped, not for use in human subjects, and the authors have conceded that to me in writing,” said Dr Wodak.
But researchers such as Moira Sim from the Naltrexone Trial Independent Monitoring Committee say the implants used in the Perth trial were approved by the TGA.
“The committee reviewed all the processes that the trial went through and we are confident that they followed the correct processes that the data was collected properly, and therefore I’m very confident in the results of the trial,” she said.
The researchers say the next step will be to conduct a trial comparing naltrexone implants with methadone and other drugs used to control heroin addiction.
________
Maggiemac
By admin | June 21, 2008
A study at the University of Western Australia has found that heroin addicts with naltrexone implants are far less likely to return to heroin use than those taking oral tablets.
But critics are sceptical about the study and say that naltrexone is still a risky option for drug users trying to kick the habit.
Naltrexone is a drug which blocks the effects of heroin on the brain. It is usually taken as a tablet, but if heroin users stop taking the pill they often fall back into drug use.
That is why scientists have been working on an implant which automatically releases naltrexone into the body.
Gary Hulse from the University Of Western Australia is confident about the naltrexone’s success.
“It means that you’ve got a a one-stop shop. People can come in, they receive their treatment or implant and for five months or six months, they carry that treatment with them,” he said.
The six-month trial involved 69 heroin users. Fifty-four completed the trial. Of the 28 participants who received a naltrexone tablet, 15 returned to regular heroin use. Of the 26 people who received a naltrexone implant, just two returned to heroin use.
Researchers like Mr Hulse say it is a good result for naltrexone implants.
“This is a relatively safe and a treatment which has good clinical outcomes,” he said.
The study is yet to be published in a peer-reviewed medical journal, but the team at the University of Western Australia are confident the research will be well received.
“I’m not only confident that it’ll be published in a peer review but I would be surprised if this wasn’t accepted by one of the extremely high rating journals,” said Mr Hulse.
But critics like Dr Alex Wodak, from the Alcohol And Drug Services at Vincents Hospital in Sydney, have little time for the new study.
“The paper hasn’t been published yet in a scientific journal and so therefore, it’s the equivalent of hearsay in a court of law. That is, it’s not really evidence,” he said.
Naltrexone is a controversial drug. The implants are yet to be approved by Australia’s Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) and there have been mixed results for heroin users.
Some patients have stopped using heroin after receiving an implant. But others have cut them out of their body or suffered serious side effects.
“The implants, I know for a fact, were at one stage required by the therapeutic goods administration to be stamped, not for use in human subjects, and the authors have conceded that to me in writing,” said Dr Wodak.
But researchers such as Moira Sim from the Naltrexone Trial Independent Monitoring Committee say the implants used in the Perth trial were approved by the TGA.
“The committee reviewed all the processes that the trial went through and we are confident that they followed the correct processes that the data was collected properly, and therefore I’m very confident in the results of the trial,” she said.
The researchers say the next step will be to conduct a trial comparing naltrexone implants with methadone and other drugs used to control heroin addiction.
________
Maggiemac
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 341
Thanks to everyone who responded. I appreciate your candor. I was hoping he'd go into the detox and rehab he said he wanted so i wouldn't have to tell him to leave...but he's shown me today that it's all just talk and hype...he had the chance to get a bed ASAP and wouldn't even take the number or make the call..makes it crystal clear for me where he's at. He loads the poor me act on heavy...so i won't ask him to go. He's been homeless before when his dad kicked him out. How do I do it without worrying he'll come back and tear up the place, steal from me, pound on the door at all hours?? He's already risking going back to jail by violating probation and testing dirty. I don't want to call the police on him....did that when he was younger and using, just by calling the Pet Team and the police came too. It didn't do any good. I know it's best for him and for me, but I don't think I'm ready to do it yet, because we just got back together after my not seeing him or being with him for the last five years. I know I have to ....I can't take it anymore....last night I called him a mooch and a f******junkie...then apologized this morning. I know that's not the way to handle it. I don't want him to keep using. I don't want him to be homeless again, but I don't want to enable...please..help.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Land of Cotton
Posts: 3,433
Vaya - I'm sorry, but his life has nothing to do with "what you want". Your choices just boil down to what you want THE MOST. Do you want to provide a roof over his head more than you want your own safety and serenity? Those are basically your only two choices, because you have no control over much of anything else.
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 14,246
Hello vaya, I can appreciate not wanting to kick him out. When I first came to SR I was in the same spot- so afraid for his life. His being diabetic compounded our fears.. His dad and I were always taking him back for various intervals and they were always cut short by his crossing a boundary> don't use, don't steal.
My worst fear was him being homeless when he still had a car...and later my worst fear was his being homeless without the car...without clothes, food...his insulin etc etc.
My son used for over ten years and it wasn't until I finally let him face the natural consequences of his actions that he got serious about change. Either way; whether he sought recovery or not- I wasn't going to survive by being up close to the drama.
During that time I attended Al-Anon every week and open AA and NA meetings too. I barely had one day a week without a meeting and sometimes attended 2-3 per day when I could.
He was 'out there' on his own for about 7 months and we did have some contact during that period...I would meet him for breakfast and maybe bring him some clothing....but that was it. He always found a place to stay and also managed to get all the other bare necessities--including his medicine. Of course I only found out about how he managed these things once he was clean.
At that time we had finally stopped giving money, paying bail or providing even a place to sleep for a night. The last time he stole from me was a deal breaker and although my enabling efforts did grow less and less over time....there was a 'bottom' that I reached and finally stopped interfering in his affairs.
I won't sugar coat it....what it finally took to get his attention was getting arrested and spending a year in jail. He got arrested with a 'friend' and this time it was serious enough to scare him. He chose a longer sentence (over 3 times longer) in order to be involved in a jail/drug program in addition to 6 months extended time in a halfway house.
That's when he put into practice all he had learned about recovery. He did it all by himself as it should be and he has 4 years clean. I can only take credit for how I conducted myself in my own journey and the same goes for him- he's earned for himself some much needed self respect.
I learned in AA how many addicts got clean and stayed clean when they could take credit for their _good_ choices and efforts. There's a great deal of dignity and pride involved when a person turns their life around and I think that fuels the fire to make it work. My continual 'helping' wasn't contributing much to that sense of dignity a person needs and deserves.
from one mom to another....
My worst fear was him being homeless when he still had a car...and later my worst fear was his being homeless without the car...without clothes, food...his insulin etc etc.
My son used for over ten years and it wasn't until I finally let him face the natural consequences of his actions that he got serious about change. Either way; whether he sought recovery or not- I wasn't going to survive by being up close to the drama.
During that time I attended Al-Anon every week and open AA and NA meetings too. I barely had one day a week without a meeting and sometimes attended 2-3 per day when I could.
He was 'out there' on his own for about 7 months and we did have some contact during that period...I would meet him for breakfast and maybe bring him some clothing....but that was it. He always found a place to stay and also managed to get all the other bare necessities--including his medicine. Of course I only found out about how he managed these things once he was clean.
At that time we had finally stopped giving money, paying bail or providing even a place to sleep for a night. The last time he stole from me was a deal breaker and although my enabling efforts did grow less and less over time....there was a 'bottom' that I reached and finally stopped interfering in his affairs.
I won't sugar coat it....what it finally took to get his attention was getting arrested and spending a year in jail. He got arrested with a 'friend' and this time it was serious enough to scare him. He chose a longer sentence (over 3 times longer) in order to be involved in a jail/drug program in addition to 6 months extended time in a halfway house.
That's when he put into practice all he had learned about recovery. He did it all by himself as it should be and he has 4 years clean. I can only take credit for how I conducted myself in my own journey and the same goes for him- he's earned for himself some much needed self respect.
I learned in AA how many addicts got clean and stayed clean when they could take credit for their _good_ choices and efforts. There's a great deal of dignity and pride involved when a person turns their life around and I think that fuels the fire to make it work. My continual 'helping' wasn't contributing much to that sense of dignity a person needs and deserves.
from one mom to another....
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Vaya honey, have you sought the support of Nar-Anon or Al-Anon? I know you are looking for direct advice but during times like these you need in-person social support so please check out some of your local meetings. Please take good care of YOU Vaya. Put yourSELF FIRST.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 341
Well, everyone, I told my son he has to leave, with a 1 week deadline.I'm not sure if I should make it by this next Friday, instead of Sunday, since there isn't much open for him on the weekends, not even intakes. I figured that would give him a chance to get through this weekend, go to court this coming Tuesday, and get into a detox or shelter, or whatever arrangements he has to make. Naturally he's bitter uses the usual, oh you don't love me or care about me routine....I told him I do care that's why I 'm doing this. What I want is for him to go to the detox and give it a chance....at least he won't be using and maybe will see the light. This is painful....but I am sick of his 'episodes' and complaints. He's still stuck in thinking he deserves sympathy since it's so hard for him to go through withdrawals, getting sick and all. I tell him it's his choice to feel that way by what he chooses to do. AS his mom, naturally I'm hoping he'll follow up with the detox program next week.....it would save me the guilt of sending him out into the streets. If he goes in the streets, he's sure to get arrested again.....does every time....but that's his choice.
Anyway, I'll just have to get through this next week somehow.
I know he's going to continue to use...so it seems pointless to tell him to go if he's using or high, since I'm giving him a deadline.
Some members have suggested the possibility of other medications, suboxone, etc....I would consider that but he's in such a bad state, I don't know if that would help. He's just thrown in the towel...doesn't seem to care about his recovery....just getting high.
Whatever, I'm open to suggestions about how to move his exit along, and hopefully help him get into detox. At least it's a warm bed, free meals, and a recovery atmosphere. ..
Anyway, I'll just have to get through this next week somehow.
I know he's going to continue to use...so it seems pointless to tell him to go if he's using or high, since I'm giving him a deadline.
Some members have suggested the possibility of other medications, suboxone, etc....I would consider that but he's in such a bad state, I don't know if that would help. He's just thrown in the towel...doesn't seem to care about his recovery....just getting high.
Whatever, I'm open to suggestions about how to move his exit along, and hopefully help him get into detox. At least it's a warm bed, free meals, and a recovery atmosphere. ..
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by vaya 
Whatever, I'm open to suggestions about how to move his exit along, and hopefully help him get into detox. At least it's a warm bed, free meals, and a recovery atmosphere. ..
Then I changed the locks the next day.
I had taken her in temporarily against my better judgment, my own gut feelings, after she had done a lengthy sentence on felony drug charges.
It took her a month to turn my household upside down. She was using/drinking in my house when I was gone to work, and when I was sleeping.
She's a very clever girl and has managed to survive quite nicely since that day over 6 1/2 years ago.
I would highly recommend Alanon for your own recovery from the effects your son's addiction has had on you.
I'd also recommend the book "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie.
Also, as a recovering addict/alcoholic myself, I can assure you only God knows what's right for your son.
My bottom was worse than anything I ever could have dreamed of, but you know what?
That bottom was what it took for me to finally cry out to God for help.
It is possible to love a child to death.
I watched that happen over a period of 15+ years where I live. It was ugly.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 341
My son has become completely consumed about getting his fix so he doesn't get sick. He agreed to go to detox, said he wanted it and called the place about it earlier today. He was supposed to call back at 3:00 today. His phone is on the fritz and his replacement phone won't be available until this Thursday, so he's been sharing my phone today, while we were both at home. (I took off work to go to court with him this AM and hoped the phone intake would be done shortly after that.) Anyway, around 2:30 he stepped outside to use my phone. I thought I heard him out there talking. When it got to be 3:00 I looked outside for him so he could follow up on the intake for detox call and he was gone with my phone!!! He knows I need my phone to make calls today and that he was only allowed to use it here. It's as if he's completely consumed now and isn't even himself. He's keeps asking me for money so he won't get sick. He has conned me out of money before, but no more. He said he was going to make the call to detox, but now I don't know if he even followed through. he also talked about going to the hospital ER for help, saying he's suicidal so they'll keep him for a while and maybe place him.
Anyway, I'm really worried about what to do. He's acting so desperate and consumed, only thinking about making a connection. I gave him until Friday to leave, but with this new behavior i don't know what to do. I have to go to work tomorrow and Thursday and won't be around to police him. Now I'm wondering if I should report my phone stolen or wait a few more hours.
He hasn't done much at the house, except break a closet door and stay stoned. He hasn't stolen anything, but lately is alluding to doing so since he doesn't have any money. He keeps saying he doesn't want to do anything bad, like steal from someone on the street, to get money. His behavior has taken such a sharp drop all of a suddent. i don't think it helped that everything went ok at court, even though he had a dirty test. Now, I think he figures he can get away with everything and I'm not sure if going back to detox and a program really matters to him.
At any rate....what should I do if he doesn't cooperate about leaving? Should I move the date up? I'm not here during the day to keep an eye on things. One person said they got the locks changes as soon as their daughter left. I rent an apartment and that isn't ok with the landlord. Also, I can't get the locks changed that fast and don't have my phone now to call anyone to come and change them.
I'm not making excuses....I just want him to go peacefully and get himself help. Any other suggestions?
Anyway, I'm really worried about what to do. He's acting so desperate and consumed, only thinking about making a connection. I gave him until Friday to leave, but with this new behavior i don't know what to do. I have to go to work tomorrow and Thursday and won't be around to police him. Now I'm wondering if I should report my phone stolen or wait a few more hours.
He hasn't done much at the house, except break a closet door and stay stoned. He hasn't stolen anything, but lately is alluding to doing so since he doesn't have any money. He keeps saying he doesn't want to do anything bad, like steal from someone on the street, to get money. His behavior has taken such a sharp drop all of a suddent. i don't think it helped that everything went ok at court, even though he had a dirty test. Now, I think he figures he can get away with everything and I'm not sure if going back to detox and a program really matters to him.
At any rate....what should I do if he doesn't cooperate about leaving? Should I move the date up? I'm not here during the day to keep an eye on things. One person said they got the locks changes as soon as their daughter left. I rent an apartment and that isn't ok with the landlord. Also, I can't get the locks changed that fast and don't have my phone now to call anyone to come and change them.
I'm not making excuses....I just want him to go peacefully and get himself help. Any other suggestions?
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,896
If you are unable to contact the office of your apartment complex tonight, go buy new locks and put them on. You can let the office know tomorrow what you had to do and they can either change the locks or accept a key to your new ones. The most important thing right now is for you to be safe. Do you have any male relatives or friends (preferably large ones) who can be with you when you tell your son to leave? Stop trying to make things easy for him. You need for him to be gone! He doesn't care that you don't have a phone, he needed it so he took it. He is not the son you used to know...he is an addict who only cares about his next fix. Please, change your locks and keep yourself safe.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: central coast, ca
Posts: 1,652
I love the part about "I don't want to HAVE to steal". How everlovin' manipulative is that? so glad u didn't give in. He stole your phone.. he is completely taking advantage of the situation. ahis behavior is no longer just pathetic, but erratic. Change the locks, the landlord will have to get over it. Better to ask forgiveness than permission in this siuation. So sorry it has come to this.
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: new york
Posts: 227
Originally Posted by dollydo
Many hit what I refer to as as "Mini Bottom", just enough to get everyone back on their side, to help...the codies mantra is "I want to help"!
Truth be told, we can't and until we stop, the addict will never hit the "Final down to their knees bottom". Then and only then do they have a chance for recovery.
Some never reach their bottom, however, many do, all you can do is turn him over to the HP and pray.
That's it, stop enabling him, don't love him to death!
Truth be told, we can't and until we stop, the addict will never hit the "Final down to their knees bottom". Then and only then do they have a chance for recovery.
Some never reach their bottom, however, many do, all you can do is turn him over to the HP and pray.
That's it, stop enabling him, don't love him to death!
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