Can they ever successful control their drinking?
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Colorado
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Can they ever successful control their drinking?
We went to our first counseling session yesterday, AH didn't even try to back out. It went really well, better than I expected, & he even agreed we should go again.
Drinking was a major topic of discussion & the counselor was great at addressing this issue without pushing AH too far. AH says he does realize alcohol has been causing problems in his life & in our relationship & he does want to address this.
The problem - he wants to go back to casual, controlled drinking. Does this ever work? I know AA says it can't happen, but do people who try this always fail? Or is it if you can do this then you aren't technically an alcoholic & by definition the alcoholic will always fail?
There were several significant events in our lives over the past year that really lead to his drinking & everything spiraling out of control. He feels if he can overcome these issues, then he will be able to once again control his drinking. The counselor did discuss the need to learn to cope without resorting to drinking when things are tough.
I guess I just want someone to give me a clue as to what will happen next. Is it possible to go back to controlled drinking like a non-A after having several months to a year of A-like uncontrollable drinking? Is it possible that his willingness to try this first step will eventually lead to the recognition that he needs more help & he will stop drinking? Is it possible that even with this step he will just slide back into his downward spiral?
Arg. I know these aren't question you can really answer & it all depends on him. I just hate that I am feeling optimistic about him getting better & our marriage getting back on track while always wondering when the other shoe will drop & everything will fall apart again & just wonder about other people's experiences. I just wish I knew what the future held so I could know if I am in for another big letdown or if this really is the first step towards his & our recovery.
Drinking was a major topic of discussion & the counselor was great at addressing this issue without pushing AH too far. AH says he does realize alcohol has been causing problems in his life & in our relationship & he does want to address this.
The problem - he wants to go back to casual, controlled drinking. Does this ever work? I know AA says it can't happen, but do people who try this always fail? Or is it if you can do this then you aren't technically an alcoholic & by definition the alcoholic will always fail?
There were several significant events in our lives over the past year that really lead to his drinking & everything spiraling out of control. He feels if he can overcome these issues, then he will be able to once again control his drinking. The counselor did discuss the need to learn to cope without resorting to drinking when things are tough.
I guess I just want someone to give me a clue as to what will happen next. Is it possible to go back to controlled drinking like a non-A after having several months to a year of A-like uncontrollable drinking? Is it possible that his willingness to try this first step will eventually lead to the recognition that he needs more help & he will stop drinking? Is it possible that even with this step he will just slide back into his downward spiral?
Arg. I know these aren't question you can really answer & it all depends on him. I just hate that I am feeling optimistic about him getting better & our marriage getting back on track while always wondering when the other shoe will drop & everything will fall apart again & just wonder about other people's experiences. I just wish I knew what the future held so I could know if I am in for another big letdown or if this really is the first step towards his & our recovery.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 21
This feeling of hope while also worrying that things will fall apart probably lasts for years, doesn't it?
It just occurred to me that it take months & years of continuous good behavior to earn back the trust & start to recover, whereas it only takes 1 night to destroy it all over again.
It just occurred to me that it take months & years of continuous good behavior to earn back the trust & start to recover, whereas it only takes 1 night to destroy it all over again.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 71
Personally, I do not think it's possible. In true addiction, the body starts to truly need and crave the substance to which it's addicted. That is altered brain chemistry, defective gene, X-chromosome ... whatever you want to call it, but it means that when an addict stops using, even for years, if they start back up again, they usually pick right back up where they left off. NOT in moderation, NOT in social situations only, NOT just one drink. This is one reason we hear of so many heroin overdoses from recovering addicts who have relapsed. They were off of it long enough to detox, then took a shot like they were formerly used to taking and it killed them.
My step-father claims to be a recovered alcoholic, yet he occasionally drinks. Never to excess, they rarely keep it in the house. They've been married for almost 20 years and I have never seen him buzzed, tipsy or drunk. My mom doesn't put up with ANYTHING either, lol. What do I think? I honestly don't know. Perhaps he simply abused alcohol in his youth, like I did, but was never truly addicted. I wasn't.
But I don't think a truly addicted alcoholic can ever begin to casually drink again.
My step-father claims to be a recovered alcoholic, yet he occasionally drinks. Never to excess, they rarely keep it in the house. They've been married for almost 20 years and I have never seen him buzzed, tipsy or drunk. My mom doesn't put up with ANYTHING either, lol. What do I think? I honestly don't know. Perhaps he simply abused alcohol in his youth, like I did, but was never truly addicted. I wasn't.
But I don't think a truly addicted alcoholic can ever begin to casually drink again.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
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"I just hate that I am feeling optimistic about him getting better & our marriage getting back on track"
This is your wants and expectations
"while always wondering when the other shoe will
drop & everything will fall apart again"
This is your GUT talking.
It is VERY difficult to reconcile the two, especially when we are trying to control the situation. No matter what HE does, you can take steps to work on YOU instead. You can get into your own therapy, find an Al-Anon meeting where you feel comfortable, get yourself a sponsor, and start working YOUR Recovery and letting HIM be responsible for his own side of the street.
And no, an alcoholic will not be able to control his drinking any more than we are able to control the alcoholic.
This is your wants and expectations
"while always wondering when the other shoe will
drop & everything will fall apart again"
This is your GUT talking.
It is VERY difficult to reconcile the two, especially when we are trying to control the situation. No matter what HE does, you can take steps to work on YOU instead. You can get into your own therapy, find an Al-Anon meeting where you feel comfortable, get yourself a sponsor, and start working YOUR Recovery and letting HIM be responsible for his own side of the street.
And no, an alcoholic will not be able to control his drinking any more than we are able to control the alcoholic.
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
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There are heavy drinkers and there are alcoholics, sometimes it is a fine line. But the litmus test is what happens to a person when they drink, not how much they drink.
For me a red flag in your husband's case is that "there were several events that led to drinking and spiraling out of control". IMHO: Normal people don't drink over problems. A normal person just deals with it and keeps on with life. There are no external factors that cause someone's drinking to spiral out of control: in my experience, they are always internal factors, and always related to a predisposition for abusing alcohol.
Unfortunately, there is no way to know what is going to happen next. I would suggest that you ask your partner to take a few online tests, (alone, and completely honest with himself), to determine if his drinking is in the alcoholic zone. I would also suggest that he read up about alcoholism. (I am a recovering alcoholic, and I didn't know a thing about alcoholism!)
It is a really good sign that your husband is agreeing to counseling. Maybe he is a heavy drinker and can go back to controlled drinking. That's possible.
He can find out if that is possible by performing a few simple tests. Go into a bar and order just one, enjoy it and leave. Buy liquor to keep at home and leave it untouched for a period of time, such as a month, without drinking it, and without having obsessive thoughts about drinking it. Don't drink anything for several days or weeks at a time and feeling no desire to drink. And the final test is to not cheat on any of these tests.
I failed all those tests. The simple fact is that non-alcoholics can easily do all that stuff. But alcoholics find doing those things very difficult.
You might ask him to if he is having obsessive thoughts about alcohol. Such as having thoughts about drinking at an inappropriate time, like 2PM while sitting at his desk at work. I once asked my husband if he had thoughts about drinking at odd times, and he didn't even know what I was talking about.
For me a red flag in your husband's case is that "there were several events that led to drinking and spiraling out of control". IMHO: Normal people don't drink over problems. A normal person just deals with it and keeps on with life. There are no external factors that cause someone's drinking to spiral out of control: in my experience, they are always internal factors, and always related to a predisposition for abusing alcohol.
Unfortunately, there is no way to know what is going to happen next. I would suggest that you ask your partner to take a few online tests, (alone, and completely honest with himself), to determine if his drinking is in the alcoholic zone. I would also suggest that he read up about alcoholism. (I am a recovering alcoholic, and I didn't know a thing about alcoholism!)
It is a really good sign that your husband is agreeing to counseling. Maybe he is a heavy drinker and can go back to controlled drinking. That's possible.
He can find out if that is possible by performing a few simple tests. Go into a bar and order just one, enjoy it and leave. Buy liquor to keep at home and leave it untouched for a period of time, such as a month, without drinking it, and without having obsessive thoughts about drinking it. Don't drink anything for several days or weeks at a time and feeling no desire to drink. And the final test is to not cheat on any of these tests.
I failed all those tests. The simple fact is that non-alcoholics can easily do all that stuff. But alcoholics find doing those things very difficult.
You might ask him to if he is having obsessive thoughts about alcohol. Such as having thoughts about drinking at an inappropriate time, like 2PM while sitting at his desk at work. I once asked my husband if he had thoughts about drinking at odd times, and he didn't even know what I was talking about.
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 17
Don't know your situation but that being said a big red flag is when someone tries to "control" their drinking. A person who does not have a problem with alcohol does not see a need to control it; they can take it or leave it. It is very common for an A to try and limit the days/times/events they drink, it may start out ok but then they see a reason to break the /rules and start going downhill.
Blu**ed Lines...A ClockWork SR
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,529
Possible but not probable. Some are able to; most are not. Those that are are often labeled "non alcoholics" by many. Hence they were only "problem drinkers". The drivers for someone to successfully return to moderate drinking are so complex, the best general, catch all advice would be to do some sort of quality program and dry out for about a year. Depends on the underlying Personality as well. General Grant comes to mind. While he was not actively engaged in something vocationally meaningful he seems to have drun
k mostly out of Boredom. In my opinion, do your own research, see what your councilor's opinion is and set your own goals, boundaries etc. accordingly.
k mostly out of Boredom. In my opinion, do your own research, see what your councilor's opinion is and set your own goals, boundaries etc. accordingly.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
I tried the social drinking experiment after 4 years clean/sober.
I failed miserably.
I'm a real alcoholic, not a heavy or 'problem' drinker.
If he is an alcoholic, then the rest of the issues won't matter because the alcoholism will trump everything else in the end.
He's made it clear to you that not drinking at all isn't an option in his life.
You can have your own program of recovery, in spite of what he is/isn't doing.
I failed miserably.
I'm a real alcoholic, not a heavy or 'problem' drinker.
If he is an alcoholic, then the rest of the issues won't matter because the alcoholism will trump everything else in the end.
He's made it clear to you that not drinking at all isn't an option in his life.
You can have your own program of recovery, in spite of what he is/isn't doing.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 545
Some can, some can't. Don't forget, this site is but a subsection of drinkers and their loved ones.
I have to say, though, that it seems an odd decision for someone who has faced such severe consequences from drinking, though. My brother is severely allergic to nuts. I would try and have him committed if he tried peanut moderation. My ex tried moderation, but mainly it was a front and he just tried to hide the extra a bit better than before.
I have to say, though, that it seems an odd decision for someone who has faced such severe consequences from drinking, though. My brother is severely allergic to nuts. I would try and have him committed if he tried peanut moderation. My ex tried moderation, but mainly it was a front and he just tried to hide the extra a bit better than before.
Heathen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: La La Land, USA
Posts: 2,567
If someone can moderate their drinking, it likely never would have been a problem. And my short answer to your original question, is no.
So if these horrible occasions in life "made" your AH spiral out of control, I guess that's a guarantee it will again, when life happens, if he's still drinking.
Its most alcoholic's dream to be able to "drink occasionally" "just a few". "No hard stuff" "onlyspecial occasions" "only on weekends/days off" ad nauseum.. I know I almost killed myself trying to find out if I could do it.
He's terrified to let it go..and manipulating you into thinking an alcoholic can continue to drink without a problem. Do you see how that makes absolutely no sense?
I don't use aa in my recovery, however most all recovery programs operate on a total abstinence theory. There is a program called Moderation Management where you have no more than 2 drinks a day or something, but I think their founder is still in jail for killing some peeps whilst driving drunk.
So if these horrible occasions in life "made" your AH spiral out of control, I guess that's a guarantee it will again, when life happens, if he's still drinking.
Its most alcoholic's dream to be able to "drink occasionally" "just a few". "No hard stuff" "onlyspecial occasions" "only on weekends/days off" ad nauseum.. I know I almost killed myself trying to find out if I could do it.
He's terrified to let it go..and manipulating you into thinking an alcoholic can continue to drink without a problem. Do you see how that makes absolutely no sense?
I don't use aa in my recovery, however most all recovery programs operate on a total abstinence theory. There is a program called Moderation Management where you have no more than 2 drinks a day or something, but I think their founder is still in jail for killing some peeps whilst driving drunk.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 21
Some can, some can't. Don't forget, this site is but a subsection of drinkers and their loved ones.
I'm not really sure what category AH falls into as far as his drinking. I asked him if he had any sort of withdrawal while in jail & he said no, but he obviously has some attachment to it since at this point he can't imagine just not drinking. As others have pointed out, since he did spiral out of control once, maybe he isn't the type that can learn any sort of control.
This is still so new to both of us. I don't think he really knows a lot about alcoholism & this is the first time he has ever admitted that he has a problem & agrees he needs to work on it.
I guess I just need to give him time to sort this out for himself & hopefully he does continue in counseling & I think that will help quite a bit. In the mean time I guess need to figure out what I can & can't live with. Because right now I don't fully know the answer to that question other than know that I absolutely draw the line at any sort of emotional abuse, which started when everything else spiraled out of control, but has not been a problem since we have started actually talking & trying to work things out.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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This was an idea my XABF posed to me time and time again. He always said he was going to moderate his drinking. I finally did some research as to what a moderate drinker was supposed to be and presented it to him. The information I found said 1-2 drinks
(ounces based on alcohol content) for males and 1 drink for females per day was moderate drinking. I thought this was high but certainly not the six-pack he was putting away daily and the cases he went through each day on the weekend.
He could never manage this moderation for long. Early on, he could go a few months then later only a week at best. A massive binge would always follow.
He loved to try to relate his binge drinking to my binge eating. He said if I could eat moderately then he could drink moderately. I know, WTF, right? I guess it was about that time I realized I was holding out hope he would quit and he was holding out hope that alcohol would become a new basic food group.
If I had the choice, I would walk away from food and not look back. Seriously. I hate having to work so hard day in and day out on my eating. Checking portions, cooking tiny meals avoiding leftovers, buying only a certain amount at the grocery at a time on and on. I wish there was a way to give it up entirely and be healthy. I'm so much better at giving things up cold turkey. Of course now, it seems all I eat is turkey. Ugh.
They say you'll know when you're ready to recover from your addiction and I feel like I've been ready for a long time. I wake up every day having to moderate something I wish I could just throw away and never pick up again. I can't imagine being at that point as an alocholic and then electively taunting myself every day by sipping at just one beer. Sheer torture!
Makes me think the alcoholic is either a masochist for wanting to go through what I do, or they're just not at all at the point of giving it up to recovery.
Thanks for posting what you're going through!
Alice
(ounces based on alcohol content) for males and 1 drink for females per day was moderate drinking. I thought this was high but certainly not the six-pack he was putting away daily and the cases he went through each day on the weekend.
He could never manage this moderation for long. Early on, he could go a few months then later only a week at best. A massive binge would always follow.
He loved to try to relate his binge drinking to my binge eating. He said if I could eat moderately then he could drink moderately. I know, WTF, right? I guess it was about that time I realized I was holding out hope he would quit and he was holding out hope that alcohol would become a new basic food group.
If I had the choice, I would walk away from food and not look back. Seriously. I hate having to work so hard day in and day out on my eating. Checking portions, cooking tiny meals avoiding leftovers, buying only a certain amount at the grocery at a time on and on. I wish there was a way to give it up entirely and be healthy. I'm so much better at giving things up cold turkey. Of course now, it seems all I eat is turkey. Ugh.
They say you'll know when you're ready to recover from your addiction and I feel like I've been ready for a long time. I wake up every day having to moderate something I wish I could just throw away and never pick up again. I can't imagine being at that point as an alocholic and then electively taunting myself every day by sipping at just one beer. Sheer torture!
Makes me think the alcoholic is either a masochist for wanting to go through what I do, or they're just not at all at the point of giving it up to recovery.
Thanks for posting what you're going through!
Alice
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Originally Posted by MsAngel 
This feeling of hope while also worrying that things will fall apart probably lasts for years, doesn't it?
It just occurred to me that it take months & years of continuous good behavior to earn back the trust & start to recover, whereas it only takes 1 night to destroy it all over again.
It just occurred to me that it take months & years of continuous good behavior to earn back the trust & start to recover, whereas it only takes 1 night to destroy it all over again.
It is incredibly painful, and self-destructive really.
Withdrawals? My xah only drank on occasion, but boy did he do it up at those times. I don't believe he ever had W/D, but certainly he is alcoholic.
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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My exah had liver damage... went through 6 months of painful liver treatment... all his levels back to normal... then he got the bright idea that he should drink again.... I said it's up to your doctor.... his doctor said sure you can drink... 
and then told him no more than 4 ounces a week.
Sweet dear hubby decided that 4 ounces wasn't enough so he tried bargaining with me... he'd save his 4 ounces from this week and have 8 ounces next week... I said nope... that's not what your doctor said...
Before it was all said and done... he declared he didn't have a doctor and was back to drinking 1/2 gallon of vodka a day... it wasn't a problem for him.... but it sure was a problem for me.
and then told him no more than 4 ounces a week.Sweet dear hubby decided that 4 ounces wasn't enough so he tried bargaining with me... he'd save his 4 ounces from this week and have 8 ounces next week... I said nope... that's not what your doctor said...
Before it was all said and done... he declared he didn't have a doctor and was back to drinking 1/2 gallon of vodka a day... it wasn't a problem for him.... but it sure was a problem for me.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
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Originally Posted by MsAngel
This feeling of hope while also worrying that things will fall apart probably lasts for years, doesn't it?
Has worry served any useful purpose for you in the past? Has it ever changed how things did happen?
What can you do for yourself in order to live life to the fullest today?
Blu**ed Lines...A ClockWork SR
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,529
Best arguement for a binge ever!
" he'd save his 4 ounces from this week and have 8 ounces next week." Love it...
My evil mind (darkside) is already doing the math concerning the quality and duration of a bing with a two week ration in one night. Saving up a four week ration would really get me motivated. Then it would be a period of reasonably moderated drinking, then the inevitable spiral. Were all different, but oh so similar where it counts.
" he'd save his 4 ounces from this week and have 8 ounces next week." Love it...
My evil mind (darkside) is already doing the math concerning the quality and duration of a bing with a two week ration in one night. Saving up a four week ration would really get me motivated. Then it would be a period of reasonably moderated drinking, then the inevitable spiral. Were all different, but oh so similar where it counts.
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 545
Originally Posted by ElegantlyWasted
Best arguement for a binge ever!
" he'd save his 4 ounces from this week and have 8 ounces next week." Love it...
My evil mind (darkside) is already doing the math concerning the quality and duration of a bing with a two week ration in one night. Saving up a four week ration would really get me motivated. Then it would be a period of reasonably moderated drinking, then the inevitable spiral. Were all different, but oh so similar where it counts.
" he'd save his 4 ounces from this week and have 8 ounces next week." Love it...
My evil mind (darkside) is already doing the math concerning the quality and duration of a bing with a two week ration in one night. Saving up a four week ration would really get me motivated. Then it would be a period of reasonably moderated drinking, then the inevitable spiral. Were all different, but oh so similar where it counts.
(Big difference between 4 ounces of beer and 4 ounces of vodka!)
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