Bolina

Some recent threads ad some RL experiences have got me thinking.

I used to be a bit of a "well, X made me do it" merchant. Or an "I couldn't help it" queen. Or a "don't want to rock the boat" lady. But I called BS on that line of thinking a little while ago.

If I stand true to my values, I can't be induced to cheat on my partner, or be a party to the cheating of another, to belittle another, to throw away my career because of someone else's words, to turn a blind eye to a crime, to beat a child, to not hold someone else accountable to their actions, to induce someone else to cover for my misdemeanors, to let sexist or racist comment or action pass without comment (that was a biggy today).

Do you know your values? And do you stand by them regardless? It's tough, no? I am no paragon, clearly, but life got a lot simpler once I got a code. Like Dexter. Kinda.

spinwc

Bolina..this is a great thread! I guess I have never stood up for my values or self worth. Isnt that sad?

Maybe thats the key-dont compromise your principles and you will have some peace in your soul.

Thanks for the clarity! I will chew on this one for awhile

dollydo

This is a great thread.

I can only speak for myself, I live by my own values and guidelines. I have often questioned where these self imposed values came from. My final answer is: My childhood, I clearly saw what not to do, then I had the responsibility to figure out what were the right things to do, and how the heck was I going to accomplish doing the right things?

Clearly that was the difficult part, I fell, I got back up, I fell, I got back up and continued to move forward, hopefully always in the right direction. I am still a work in progress, however, I think I basically have gotten it. Live and let live, don't sit in judgement of others, and first and foremost be true to yourself.

Just my thoughts!

Dolly

Bolina

Exactly, anvil. Non-negotiables are key for me. It makes life easier AND makes it less likely that I will get splinters in my butt from sitting on the fence.

Btw, please don't just thank me for the post. This is a discussion board. I wanna hear what you have to add!

Chino

I've always had a set of values for myself, but I also had a set of values for others and they weren't always the same.

Bolina

What do you mean by that, Chino? That sounds interesting. Do you mean that you had different standards for yourself and others? How do you have values for others?

LaTeeDa

Honesty has always been a core value of mine. Telling the truth has sometimes been difficult, but being dishonest has always proven to be more difficult. And I have generally not had a problem cutting dishonest people out of my life--with one glaring exception. But, the irony is that much of the time, I was not being honest with myself. And to this day, whenever I slip, and do something that I know is wrong, or self-destructive, I can always trace it back to being dishonest with myself.

L

Bolina

Agreed, LTD. Irony is a funny thing - that's why I like you, cos you get it. Not like some: like raaaaaaiiiiiin on your wedding day

The fact that I spent years lambasting my previous partners for various things but not prepared to step up to the plate myself makes me chuckle, but only in a wry way. Man, no wonder I was lost for a few years. I have turned my entire world on its axis.

I always claimed that integrity was one of my core values. Do what you say you are going to do. Heh.

Hammerhead

Which reminds me... here's a good story.

Have you ever told a white lie? You are going to love this, especially all of the ladies who bake for church events:

Alice Grayson was to bake a cake for the Church Ladies' Group in Tuscaloosa , but forgot to do it until the last minute.

She remembered it the morning of the bake sale and after rummaging through cabinets, found an angel food cake mix & quickly made it while drying her hair, dressing, and helping her son pack up for Scout camp.

When she took the cake from the oven, the center had dropped flat and the cake was horribly disfigured and she exclaimed, "Oh dear, there is not time to bake another cake!"

This cake was important to Alice because she did so want to fit in at her new church, and in her new community of friends. So, being inventive, she looked around the house for something to build up the center of The cake. She found it in the bathroom - a roll of toilet paper. She plunked it in and then covered it with icing.

Not only did the finished product look beautiful, it looked perfect. And, before she left the house to drop the cake by the church and head for work, Alice woke her daughter and gave her some money and specific instructions to be at the bake sale the moment it opened at 9:30 and to buy the cake and bring it home.

When the daughter arrived at the sale, she found the attractive, perfect cake had already been sold. Amanda grabbed her cell phone & called her mom. Alice was horrified-she was beside herself! Everyone would know! What
would they think? She would be ostracized, talked about, ridiculed!

All night, Alice lay awake in bed thinking about people pointing fingers at her and talking about her behind her back. The next day, Alice promised herself she would try not to think about the cake and would attend the fancy luncheon/bridal shower at the home of a fellow church member and try to have a good time.

She did not really want to attend because the hostess was a snob who more than once had looked down her nose at the fact that Alice was a single parent and not from the founding families of Tuscaloosa , but having already RSVP'd , she couldn't think of a believable excuse to stay home..

The meal was elegant, the company was definitely upper crust old south and to Alice 's horror, the cake in question was presented for dessert!

Alice felt the blood drain from her body when she saw the cake! She started out of her chair to tell the hostess all about it, but before she could get to her feet, the Mayor's wife said, "what a beautiful cake!" Alice , still stunned, sat back in her chair when she heard the hostess (who was a prominent church member) say, "Thank you, I baked it myself."

Alice smiled and thought to herself,

"God is good."

roxiestone

I love this discussion.

I'm in a point in my life/relationship that I know I must ASK for what I want and need. I may not get it, but I have to ask - even if that makes me feel vulnerable and sometimes silly. I have to accept that knowing what I want and asking for it/going for it are my responsibilities and do not belong to anyone else.

I will speak out against racism when I hear it. I will try to do so in an non-aggressive, non-judgmental manner, but I will say something. I had to do that this week and I may have lost a "friend" over it, but that's a deal-breaker for me.

I will try to conduct myself with integrity in all aspects of my life. No more "dramas" - no more scenes.

Chino

By being a micro managing control freak and expecting others to feel and do as I said, not as I felt or did. Or 'allowing' others to have lax values so I could try and fix them.

kelsh

I learned about ethics, responsibilities, & moral behavior as a child. My parents were honest, loving & tried to instill good into our lives. I had a brother that learned the same things but could talk my Mom into most anything he wanted. :ghug3

When possible I had some kind of a job from 12 years on...watching kids while parents went out for the evening...when I was 14 I took care of a family of three kids...one a baby during the summer while parents worked.

After I had my own family I found it took a lot to keep four kids clothed & fed on our income so I was one that didn't buy clothing for myself unless needed.

When I was well into my drinking I was still honest & my behaviors were some out of line & of course some I don't remember when I started having blackouts. My family was small..just two kids at home & they learned the same as the older kids how to cook, clean, & wash clothes.

I finally recognized I was a good Mom & Wife & I didn't need to be available for every little thing. During my counseling for my alcoholism & depression I learned about owning my part of an argument or discussion. I also learned how to agree to disagree when something couldn't be resolved.

One thing that helped me a lot was the Serenity Prayer where I learned about what I could not change & what I could change. Now I am learning more about my emotions surrounding three things that involve family illness that I cannot change. Emotions are hard for me...I have run out of tears & feel I just have to meet things head on & do what I can do at the moment.

With my depression/anxiety I have to watch where my moods are leading me which involves my emotions & then I have serious problems with some manic behaviors even though I am not BiPolar. This can be brought on by too much stress at one time with my spacing out into a complete different frame of mind. The last time this happened (two years ago) I ended up in a PsycUnit.

I swear I can create my own problems that I own all by myself!!


kelsh

LaTeeDa

The worst part is I can't decide if I'm very clever and cunning, or naive and obtuse, because when I lie to myself, I totally buy it. LOL

L

tjp613

Bolina, I've been thinking a lot about my 'moral code' lately....way moreso in the last few years and I think it has to do with getting older (I'm 52) and the recovery work I've done and been involved with. I'm being more true to myself than ever before and caring a lot less about what others think of me. I've examined my core values and taken much more care to align my actions with them. I wish I had not taken so long to do this work, but I suppose this is the way it was meant to be.

All of this self-examination and alignment has got me in a pickle though. If I am real honest there are some major changes I have to make with my marriage. I think about it every day but can't seem to do the work. I need to get into counseling for real.

Bottom line: I am better than I've ever been...but still have a long way to go. We never stop learning.

theuncertainty

I have to admit that my first thought was "I have been true to my values", then I got to this part of Bolina's post...

Aww, cr-p. Not only did I not hold my STBXAH accountable for his behavior, I used to cover for him. So I've got some self-examination to do and while I think I've fixed my fuzzy boundaries, I really want to make sure I'm not missing something else.

I love that statement, roxiestone.

FormerDoormat

Actually, I'm not sure I know what MY values are. I know what society's values are, what my parents' values are that they passed on to me as a child, what values my religious upbringing (also decided by my parents) instilled in me during childhood, and so on. But I have not taken the time to think about what my values are and separate them from all the externally imposed values that have been pushed on to me or that I've adopted over the years.

I'm learning that just because I've always believed that something is right or true doesn't necessarily make it so. The more I learn the more I'm beginning to question everything.

So the first step in answering this question, Ms. B., is for me to figure out exactly what my values are. And yes, it's tough to define my values and to stand by them regardless.

spinwc

I have thought alot about this today and I dont how to express my values or self worth. I think I am so afraid of being abandoned I give into anything-cant say no. What I have realized is that i will sacrfise my values to protect others, which is why I am not happy in my life right now. Not good.

How do you get beyond this?

transformyself

For me, this statement boils down to the following question: how does one emerge from a state of unconsciousness to consciousness? I often wonder.

I reacted to and blamed folks around me for everything for so long. It was part of my anxiety disorder, yet, little by little I slowly emerge from the fog.
Just today in yoga I realized I am trying to FORCE my children to be the kind of people I want them to be. It ain't workin and I need be more compassionate and accept that I've SHOWN them how to behave all their lives in ways that aren't ideal. Just because I decide it's time for all of us to change, doesn't mean they're going to suddenly get it.

But I also have shifted far far away from focusing on my AH to make me happy, I was addicted to him and all our drama and mess for a long time. Now that I'm not, I can see things so much clearly.

One things for sure, it takes courage of great magnitude to face the reality of how I've shaped my life so far. I like it though, as I am the only person I have any control over. And even that's questionable at times.

HealingWillCome

For me, Spin, I sacrificed my values in my marriage to please others (XAH). It was all about my own abandonment fears. Have you read Lulu's post today about her date? She shared some great insight that she has found related to honoring herself/staying true to herself.

It took time for me to get beyond it, but you might try sitting and making a list of things that are most important to you - and then decide how to go about acting on those values in a concrete way. Do something each and every day, no matter how small, that reminds you what is important to you.

For me lately, it's been focusing on my kids, and trying to set examples--when I'd rather be curled up in a fetal position, crying and depressed about XABF. We've been cleaning out closets, dressers, etc., and taking their things to the children at the women's and family shelter. They go with me and help me carry their clothes, books, toys into the children's area so that they can hang out for a while with the kids who are there. They have fun and the kids in the shelter seem to enjoy it too. I don't know...just an idea or two that may help a little bit. I really believe it takes ACTION rather than THOUGHTS alone to start working your way through some of these things. It's not always easy, but I think it's necessary to our healing!

Bolina

My word! You lot are AMAZING. It is such a joy to see discussions about US instead of other people. This is recovery in action.

None of things that I put into my first post came easily (and I am nowhere near finished), so don't think it was an overnight thing. In fact, I first started thinking about values before I had even met my XA, so that dates this to a 10+ year project. I was reading Stephen Covey's 7 Habits book, which is great for identifying these deep values and principles. His idea of writing the eulogy for someone to read at your own funeral was mind-blowing to me, and still is.

I also did some MBTI work, which is all about personality types and gave me some pointers as to what might be important to me value-wise. This is not a bad free test Personality test based on Jung - Myers-Briggs typology

There is a great values tester on VIA Institute on Character: VIA Survey and Classification It's a spin off from the work of the positive psychology guru, Martin Seligman.

I am sure that there are loads of other things I did, but none spring to mind at the moment. Thing is, once you start nailing this stuff down, lightbulbs start going of all over the place. And once you get a handle on it, great decisions and responses become much easier to achieve. It's like having the 10 Commandments as your foundation - if you measure each option against a set of "rules", here is no need to pontificate.

Just a thought on sacrificing values. I did it because I didn't want people to be mad at me, or to upset them, or to stand out in the crowd, or be thought "uncool" or whatever. Now I don't care. If I hold a mirror up to someone else by declining to follow their lead, then so be it. I actually feel that I have a duty, both to myself and to my wider community to hold true to my values. They are not destructive - one of my core ones is treating others how I wish to be treated myself. If anyone has a problem with that, then *shrugs*. I am not mean, but I am me.

Transform - unconscious to conscious? For me, it's awareness and living in the present. Eckhart Tolle has to take a lot of credit for that one. At the moment, I only really have fleeting glimpses of it, but I am working on it.

There are so many threads that could be created by the ideas on this one. I hope some of you do just that. Thank you - you are all wonderful.